What Is The Least Popular Mainstream Book That Is Consistently Late?

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I was thinking a bit about how most comics from DC and Marvel that are constantly late tend to be books that have a substantial audience. What are the exceptions?

Matthew Perpetua! (Matthew Perpetua!), Monday, 20 November 2006 01:35 (nineteen years ago)

Wonder Woman? I don't think it was ever that popular, and they've had, what, 2 issues of the relaunched series in over 6 months.

James Morrison (JRSM), Monday, 20 November 2006 02:21 (nineteen years ago)

I believe the final issue of the Elric miniseries DC published recently was like two years late. File under "Who Cares?" I think sales were somewhere in the mid-four digits.

Douglas (Douglas), Monday, 20 November 2006 02:40 (nineteen years ago)

Wonder Woman sells pretty well, and Heinberg and the Dodsons are considered fan favorites, so I wouldn't count that. For the time being, that's a high profile book.

Matthew Perpetua! (Matthew Perpetua!), Monday, 20 November 2006 03:01 (nineteen years ago)

I'm curious when exactly it became at least sorta acceptable to be late on anything other than a very high-profile project. I know in the '80s "indie book" was synonymous with "perpetually late," but DC and Marvel very rarely missed their ship dates--the last two Dark Knights, the last Camelot 3000 and the last Watchmen are always cited as the "do you want it now or do you want it good" examples. But First Comics made their rep for a couple of years on NEVER EVER being late either. When a (post-Chaykin) issue of American Flagg! was their first late ship, they took out a full-page ad in the Comics Buyer's Guide to apologize to readers/point the finger at the guilty party.

There was a period in Cerebus in the issue #85-90-ish range where they got sloppy with schedules--there was a gap of two and a half months between issues at one point... and then Cerebus went biweekly for a few months until Sim and Gerhard got caught up with their originally scheduled ship dates. I'd like to see Miller and Lee try that...

The best thing the "you don't get to be late NOHOW" mentality ever gave us: Howard the Duck #16, still my favorite issue of the series.

Douglas (Douglas), Monday, 20 November 2006 04:24 (nineteen years ago)

That was the "Howard's having a nervous breakdown" issue, right?

Joe Isuzu's Petals (Rock Hardy), Monday, 20 November 2006 04:33 (nineteen years ago)

Cerebus went biweekly for a few months until Sim and Gerhard got caught up with their originally scheduled ship dates. I'd like to see Miller and Lee try that...

Miller & Lee on uppers and various narcotics is a great image, but the results, I bet, would border on the nauseating.

CROWS don't FLY in STRAIGHT LINES (orion), Monday, 20 November 2006 07:46 (nineteen years ago)

Is Heinberg really a fan favourite creator? He's only written, what, 14 issues of anything ever and well over half of those have been shockingly late - they've all sold OK but I'd be staggered if fans bought the argument that his enjoyably generic meat-and-potatoes superheroics was "worth waiting for" to this degree.

In fact ISTR Newsarama or someone asking DC when they announced Wonder Woman, "Oh, Heinberg's writing it, this is going to be really late all the time right?" and DC saying, "No no no, don't worry, he's a reformed character."

Tom (Groke), Monday, 20 November 2006 09:43 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, I'm not sure if Heinberg really has that much of a fanbase, I just know that Marvel and DC treat him differently because he comes from television and is pals with Jeph Loeb and Geoff Johns. But I don't know if people who watch The OC or Grey's Anatomy are even really aware of Heinberg as a writer, certainly not in the way that people who watched Babylon 5 know who JMS is, or Buffy fans are aware of Joss Whedon. It's not as though they have Josh Schwartz doing Wonder Woman.

Matthew Perpetua! (Matthew Perpetua!), Monday, 20 November 2006 13:05 (nineteen years ago)

Douglas, what's the deal with that issue of Howard The Duck?

Matthew Perpetua! (Matthew Perpetua!), Monday, 20 November 2006 13:13 (nineteen years ago)

Running late, belted out mostly-text issue in lick-split time to fill schedule.

occasional mongrel (kit brash), Monday, 20 November 2006 13:34 (nineteen years ago)

I'd like to see Miller and Lee try that...

I wouldn't (if it meant no more BUTTBAT).

c('°c) (Leee), Monday, 20 November 2006 17:16 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, HTD #16 is this jacked-up-on-stimulants text piece about comics and, um, stuff, accompanied by one- or two-page spot illustrations by various people who could turn it out overnight...

Douglas (Douglas), Monday, 20 November 2006 17:30 (nineteen years ago)

Was it ever reprinted?

Matthew Perpetua! (Matthew Perpetua!), Monday, 20 November 2006 17:34 (nineteen years ago)

It's in the Essentials.

Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Monday, 20 November 2006 17:35 (nineteen years ago)

OK, about Heinberg: when Young Avengers was announced, I wasn't all that impressed by TV Dude hoping on board a comic (except in the assumed hope attached w/ any non-industry writer hype: that "you write for TV / novels" + "you're a funny book fan" = "you know how to write funny books from interesting perspectives"), & most of the hype was self-generated (ON THE INTERNET MR. QUESADA) (tho I'm probably the only one that remembers Joey Q's fatwa against internet nerds), reliant mostly on the "OMG he writes popular TV show that isn't inherently nerdy like Whedon or JMS WE'RE NOT WORTHY" horseshit angle.

The only reason I got interested was the inclusion of a YA preview in some Previews catalog a few months prior to the issue hitting stands. And, yeah, it was enjoyable and generic, but emphasis on enjoyable, so THE HOOK sinks in. Then dude starts to get all late w/ crap, gets "promoted" within the TV industry to The Hottest Show, and now it's a matter of the fans wondering WTF while his comic employers are making excuses and hoping he deigns to bless fans w/ a finished storyline within the next calendar year. And nowadays, w/ non-comic folks seemingly de rigeur, it seems that just announcing that the creator The Nine is attached to a 3-D Man graphic novel is enough to make the company feel they're hyping the product.

I wonder if attaching Heinberg or any of the Lost folks to projects actually gained the companies any traction outside of the usual comic spheres? Getting a writer from Law & Order would possibly appeal to non-comic fans, except the only folks that probably care about who wrote what, and would follow that writer, are the geeky sorts that are already into comics. And, of course, attaching a writer from Lost, for example, on a mini-series that serves as a small part of a continuity-laden B-star cosmic event, or a mini-series featuring alternate versions of well-known characters, isn't the way to gain that outer-market traction (if that's even the goal). It's like they're hiring non-comic writers to make superhero comic fans feel better about being part of this industry, to break out of the "good old boys network" feel of the Big 2.

Don't mind my rampant generalizations.

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 20 November 2006 17:37 (nineteen years ago)

I think when this period of comics gets looked fondly back on the whole "you've written a TV show? PLS SIGN HERE" thing will seem the oddest trend. Interesting that the Flash relaunch has gone tits up so quickly and they've fired the TV guys (replacing them with Marc Guggenheim who is...another TV guy, I think).

Similarly, is Richard Donner on Action actually a Big Deal in the way DC want it to be? Though they've sensibly set it up so he can dictate the plot while Geoff gives him a backrub, so lateness won't be an issue.

(Latest trend seems to be fantasy novelists - Tad Williams on Aquaman)

Tom (Groke), Monday, 20 November 2006 17:43 (nineteen years ago)

Well, the problem with tv writers is that unless you are WAAAAAY into the shows, people don't know who they are unless they are the creator/showrunner.

I think the thing Marvel and DC have to learn is that while poaching writers from television is not a bad idea, it is very ridiculous to hire writers who are currently serving as staff writers (or in the case of Damon Lindelof showrunner!) of hit series. Writing for television is a full-time gig, and you can't possibly expect any of these people to have enough time to meet regular comics deadlines. Look at what it did to Geoff Johns -- that guy totally bit off more than he could chew with three or four regular series (including 52, which is actually like two books per month given its workload) and the Blade series and whatever else he's got going on, and he's behind on pretty much everything.

Matthew Perpetua! (Matthew Perpetua!), Monday, 20 November 2006 17:53 (nineteen years ago)

I assume part of the fault is the TV writers', for thinking it doesn't take long to do a comic. Mad though that sounds since basic research, talking to people who do it for a living etc. would set them straight.

Tom (Groke), Monday, 20 November 2006 17:56 (nineteen years ago)

The biggest problem, by far, is that the editorial staff at both Marvel and DC are overly lenient with creators who turn in late work, mainly because they feel (rightly, in most cases) that the creators names sell the titles and they don't want to alienate anyone. Marvel and DC are both in arms race mode, and neither of them wants to be the bad guy to their freelancers. If one of the companies gets strict with their policies, the other becomes looser to pick up the others, and now they are both kinda in the same spot.

Matthew Perpetua! (Matthew Perpetua!), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:03 (nineteen years ago)

Yes agreed though it doesn't explain why they BOTH employed Allen Heinberg AT THE SAME TIME!!!

Tom (Groke), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:07 (nineteen years ago)

Well, it's the market that demands they stay the course w/ the "high profile" talent. Back in the day, Marvel could get away w/ Avengers #221 by Danny Fingeroth & Bob Hall, because, hey, it's a new issue of Avengers! Nowadays, where the contents of an issue (& the folks behind that content) are public knowledge at least 3 months in advance, and w/ the amount of crap out there, never mind that most of these marquee projects can't just be filled-in to fill the gap, and never mind THE POWER OF THE TRADE, they have to ride out any late patches, and hope that the loss of sales due to lateness are less than the loss of sales that would occur w/ a fill-in.

[xpost]

I don't think they hired him @ the same time - it just turned out that AH's lateness on YA caused the end of his Marvel tenure to overlap w/ the start of his DC tenure.

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:11 (nineteen years ago)

The really interesting case study here is 52, though, which is TOTALLY bucking all these trends i.e.

- staking its reputation on a really brutal schedule and not even a week's lateness.
- written by a committee (even tho it's a committee of 'big names')
- drawn by any bum they can get in off the street, judging by last issue's space scenes.
- not even top-drawer characters

And it's doing 100k+ an issue.

Tom (Groke), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:15 (nineteen years ago)

52 does well because of its top name writers, but also because of the novelty of it being weekly -- I know I'm not alone in kinda liking that there's this book I read that's there every week -- and that it announces itself as an essential comic for anyone who has any interest in the DC Universe overall. It basically snaps up a large percentage of anyone who has any interest in DC, as opposed to the other books which are about specific characters. So if you like Hawkgirl, you probably buy 52. If you read the Superman or Batman books, you probably buy 52. If you read JSA, you probably buy 52. If you have a lot of morbid curiosity, you probably buy 52. It's kinda brilliant, and amazing that neither Marvel or DC had previously figured out a way to market a book about the universe overall without actually being a crossover hub or lame-ass team-up/showcase book. The key is making it seem as though the events in the comic are actually important and meaningful in the long run.

The funny thing is that all four of the writers on 52 are waaaaay behind on everything else, but yet they still manage to get 52 in the shops every week. They aren't even that far ahead of schedule in terms of production, they just have a lot riding on making sure that it's weekly.

Matthew Perpetua! (Matthew Perpetua!), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:45 (nineteen years ago)

Wow, Tad Williams is writing Aquaman!? Any good? I can't see him as a comic writer, his books are so slow-burning.

chap who would dare to welcome our new stingray masters (chap), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:15 (nineteen years ago)

He hasn't started on Aquaman yet. He's writing a mini (The Next) for DC RIGHT NOW.

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:19 (nineteen years ago)

Some novelist named Jodi Picoult is taking over Wonder Woman after Heinberg finishes his five issue run. I'm not really up on her work.

Matthew Perpetua! (Matthew Perpetua!), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:43 (nineteen years ago)

Winter Men isn't really mainstream, is it?

Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 20 November 2006 22:57 (nineteen years ago)

Oh, that's Tad Williams? The Next is kind of awesome.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 01:18 (nineteen years ago)

The Next is kind of awesome.

It's pretty decent, but I found it, from the one issue I've read, to be clearly the work of someone who doesn't have complete confidence in letting the images carry all the weight they should.

Richard Baez (Johnny Logic), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 20:46 (nineteen years ago)


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