new Leage of X Gents: the Black Dossier

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http://www.worldfamouscomics.com/bakersdozen/back20070103.shtml

Bill Baker: How would you describe The League of Extraordinary
Gentlemen: The Black Dossier?

Alan Moore: Imagine a source book that has got lots of interesting snippets from here and there in The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen's three or four hundred year history. But, these are presented in some unusual ways. For example, when we want to talk about the founding of The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, which involved Prospero, then we include a lost Shakespeare folio for a play called Fairy's Fortunes Founded, which Shakespeare commenced to write in 1616, which was the year of his death, and thus never completed. So we have got the opening scenes of Fairy's Fortunes Founded reproduced in the manner of a Shakespeare folio as part of The Black Dossier, fully illustrated and featuring some pretty good Shakespeare, if I say so myself.

And when we're detailing the 18th century League, the Gulliver group, then this is done in the form of a sequel to John Cleland's Fanny Hill, it "Being the Further of the Adventures of a Woman of Pleasure," with lots of text and full page illustrations, like in the illustrated Fanny Hill that the Marquis Von Bayros illustrated. So, there're those things. And there's lots of things that you might expect in a source book, like a really neat double page cutaway of the Nautilus. There's a twenty-five page comic strip history done in the style of those great old full color English comic strips that we used to have in Boy's World, or things like that; stuff that was painted, like Dan Dare was painted.

This history is, essentially, a twenty-five page "Life of Orlando,"
which tells the entire life of Orlando from his birth in the City of Thebes in 1190 B.C. And then, basically in the life of Orlando, we give the timeline for the entire The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen's world, up to the Second World War. And we've got every famous fictional character and event that you've ever heard of in there.

It turns out that Orlando has slept with absolutely everybody. And the ones he hasn't slept with, he's waged terrible war upon. If he was a he at the time, you know? He's posed for the Mona Lisa, and he's fought at Troy. He was personally responsible for the Renaissance, he believes.
That was a lot of fun. But, that was just twenty-five pages.

There's a Beat Generation novel, allegedly inspired by the activities of The League in America during the 1950s, as written by Sal Paradise, who was the surrogate for Jack Kerouac that appeared in On the Road.
And it's a Beat novel called The Crazy Wide Forever, which has got The League teaming up with Sal Paradise and Dean Moriarty against the villainous Dr. Sax, from another Kerouac book, as he was a kind of cross between Fu Manchu, The Shadow, and William Boroughs. So, yeah, we've got Dr. Sax in there.

There's an immense amount of stuff in the Dossier. A prospectus of London, features upon previous versions of The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Les Hommes Mysterieux from France, and Der Zweilicht-helden from Germany. There's an account of The Surrogate League that British Intelligence tried to put together in the 1950s, and which was a complete disaster. There's everything that you could ever want to know about any incarnation of The League. And this is the source book material; this is the actual Black Dossier.

And, wrapped around that and running through that, there are these very lengthy sections of comic strip which tell the story of The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, such as it is, basically retrieving the Black Dossier from British Intelligence in 1958. They basically steal the Black Dossier that has got all of these things that British Intelligence know about The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen contained in it. Members of The League break into British Intelligence in 1958, steal the Black Dossier, and then try to escape from the country while being pursued by a trio of deadly British agents, who are trying to get them and the Dossier back.

And, as you might expect with The League, there is nobody who appears anywhere in these books who is not somebody that you probably should have heard of or heard about from literature, or from films or comics or from some other cultural source.

But, I don't want to tell you who's in it. For one thing, as I'm sure you can imagine, the closer we get to the present day in The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, the more intricate the dance around the minor matters like copyright has to be. Victorian characters are fair game.
They're all public domain. Even so, you occasionally get someone like Sax Rohmer who, I believe, didn't have the decency to die until sometime in the 1940s or 50s, which meant that we couldn't use Dr. Fu Manchu in The League. So we just used an oriental mastermind who was known as the Doctor, and who was controlling Limehouse, but everybody knew who it was.

And that's the technique that we're approaching some of the characters with in this Dossier. There are some very famous characters in there who we can't actually spell out who they are, but everybody will know who they're supposed to be, because we make it completely obvious. We do everything but spell it out.

And the actual material in that comic strip is much, much more interesting than the actual wonderful material in The Dossier itself.
It's got this sort of fascinating flight across England, touching upon a number of interesting English fictional characters of the 1950s, and, it ends with probably the most spectacular sixteen pages you have ever seen in any comic. I'm saying this before Kevin's actually drawn them, but, I know what they're going to be like. There are a lot of little extras that we put in this, as well.

BB: How about the multi-media aspects of The Black Dossier?

AM: Well, part of the book, which is set in 1958, remember, deals with the residual influence of George Orwell's Big Brother Government. That book was originally set in 1948. But the publisher said, "Well, George, nobody's going to understand this. Let's change the last two numbers around, and we'll say it's happening in the future." And so, instead of being called 1948, it was called 1984. So, by the time our book opens in 1958, the Big Brother Government has already been over for a number of years. So we've got a lot of references to Orwell's world, and we tie that into our world in a way that makes perfect sense.

As one of the little extra giveaways, we've got a book produced by Pornsec, which, in Orwell's book, they're working for the Ministry of Truth, the Ministry of Propaganda, and they produce these little pornographic comics. And so, one of the giveaways is an eight-page Tijuana Bible, as dreamed up by Orwell's Thought Police. So it's Thought Police pornography. And that is something that will fall into your lap like subscription cards when you open the book.

There is a pair of 3-D goggles that will be included as well, that will be necessary for one section of the book--quite an important section of the book, actually.

And there is a 45 [RPM] vinyl single that is supposedly by a 1950s band on a 1950s American record label, both of which are fictitious, but which are taken from other sources. That's part of the fun of The League, you know? The band is called "Eddie Enrico and His Hawaiian Hotshots," which, I believe, were mentioned very briefly by Thomas Pynchon in his excellent The Crying of Lot 49. But it's double-sided, it's a single with two sides. One side of which is "Immortal Love," and the other side of which is "Home with You," which are kind of League-themed 1950s pop songs.

And so, yeah, there'll be a lot of little extras in this. It's going to be a very handsomely produced volume....

BB: Just out of curiosity, who did the music?

AM: Who did the music? It was me and Tim Perkins, pretending to be a 50s American rock and roll band. I've discovered, at this late stage in my life, that I am, in fact, an Elvis impersonator. But you'll have to wait and listen for yourself, you know? [His voice assumes an Elvis Presley-like drawl] "Uh huh, thank you very much."

So there'll be a lot of little goodies, because me and Kevin like that.
We like having lots of nice little things in there. It reminds us of British comics of our youth, where there were always these kind of cheap giveaways included. But we've got some quite expensive giveaways in this one.

BB: And porn, too!

AM: Absolutely. It is 1984 Newspeak totalitarian porn, so it's kind of depressing, but also kind of funny. [Laughter] It's George Orwell's 1984, told as an 8-page tale in a Tijuana Bible pornographic comic strip, which is kind of funny and dreadful at the same time. But that's just a minor bauble to fall into the reader's lap.

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 8 January 2007 17:51 (eighteen years ago)

well, duh

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 8 January 2007 17:58 (eighteen years ago)

This is not going to be cheap. Also, I don't have a record player.

chap (chap), Monday, 8 January 2007 18:02 (eighteen years ago)

Prospero and Pynchon? It's like Moore knows exactly what it'll take to get me to buy this thing.

c('°c) (Leee), Monday, 8 January 2007 18:15 (eighteen years ago)

But when the fuck does it come out? October 2007? Why did the bastards advertise it LAST October? This increasing lateness thing all the big publishers are doing gives me the hives.

James Morrison (JRSM), Tuesday, 9 January 2007 02:13 (eighteen years ago)

The 50's beatnik League thing seems very hard to pull off - I mean, Burroughs is reasonably easy to adapt to a comic book universe (I imagine adventures featuring his characters would be a bit like a darker "Doom Patrol"), but dude, "On The Road"??? Also: any ideas on who'll be in the 50's surrogate brit League? If Sal can make it in the US one, I want Jimmy from "Look Back In Anger" in that one!

Moore's been talking about most of this stuff for ages, though. The biggest news for me in this interview are the goodies - which look tasty, yes, but shipping & handling is gonna be a *bitch*, innit.

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Tuesday, 9 January 2007 02:25 (eighteen years ago)

Kirby OT$

Candy: tastes like chicken, if chicken was a candy. (Austin, Still), Tuesday, 9 January 2007 03:03 (eighteen years ago)

glasses tipped in
7" in paper sleeve glued to IBC
tijuana bible - shrinkwrapped book?


NB DC have previously stated the 7" will only be in the Absolute Edition

nu-mongrel (kit brash), Tuesday, 9 January 2007 05:43 (eighteen years ago)

I want Tom Ripley in it. His first appearance was in the '50s. As for Brit stuff, you could have some good Graham Greene and Evelyn Waugh people as background characters, and I'd be amazed if a thinly disguised James Bond isn't in it.

James Morrison (JRSM), Tuesday, 9 January 2007 23:04 (eighteen years ago)

Tom Ripley's a good idea. How about an aging Harry Lime, who somehow managed to crawl out of that sewer in Vienna with a bullet in him?

chap (chap), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 02:11 (eighteen years ago)

WHEN WHEN WHEN
WANT WANT WANT

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 03:38 (eighteen years ago)

"Eddie Enrico and his Hong Kong Hotshots" (not Hawaiian) appeared in Vineland, not The Crying of Lot 49. It's thought to be a Buckaroo Banzai reference.

The Yellow Kid (The Yellow Kid), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 06:06 (eighteen years ago)

two months pass...
MORE NU LOXG NUZE!!!!!

Beginning In 2008…

The third volume detailing the exploits of Miss Wilhelmina Murray and her extraordinary colleagues, Century, is a 216-page epic spanning almost a hundred years. Divided into three 72-page chapters -- each a self-contained narrative to avoid frustrating cliff-hanger delays between episodes -- this monumental tale takes place in three distinct eras, building to an apocalyptic conclusion occurring in our own current twenty-first century.

Leee, Saturday, 24 March 2007 18:52 (eighteen years ago)

O man o man o man, I wish it were 2008.

Leee, Saturday, 24 March 2007 18:53 (eighteen years ago)

That sounds amazing.

chap, Saturday, 24 March 2007 19:49 (eighteen years ago)

*creams pants*

latebloomer, Sunday, 25 March 2007 03:04 (eighteen years ago)

er, figuratively speaking

latebloomer, Sunday, 25 March 2007 03:04 (eighteen years ago)

Nice. If he still considers himself retired from comics to work on a novel, (along with this), I'm okay with that.

Rock Hardy, Sunday, 25 March 2007 03:09 (eighteen years ago)

this news is about two years old

energy flash gordon, Sunday, 25 March 2007 06:39 (eighteen years ago)

six months pass...

!!!

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 14:06 (eighteen years ago)

Nov. 14! Isn't that when Project Runway comes back too???

Leee, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 16:05 (eighteen years ago)

My apologies if this has already been included somewhere here, but this is Alan Moore on the NEXT LoEG series (the one AFTER Black Dossier)

"The third book of The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen will be a three-issue series. Each issue will be 72 pages long and will tell a stand-alone story that will nevertheless build up into an overarching narrative. The first story takes place in 1910 and a lot of it concerns the events of Bertolt Brecht's The Threepenny Opera. So, we've got Mack the Knife and Pirate Jenny wandering through the narrative, along with other characters from the literature of that period. I'm about third of the way through that first 72-page chapter at the moment. The second story will take place in 1968 during the Summer of Love and will have lots of fictional characters relating to the 1960s involved in it. And the third and final chapter will take place in 2007 or 2008. Whenever the book comes out will be the year it will be set in. It will be dealing, at least in part, with contemporary characters that will probably not be possible for us to refer to directly by name, but because of the nature of our culture everybody already knows all of the trivia surrounding these characters, and if they don't know it, they can google it. So even with the slightest of allusions, you can tip the reader about who you're talking about without risking any sort of problems from copyright lawyers."

From http://www.readysteadybook.com/Article.aspx?page=alanmoore

James Morrison, Friday, 19 October 2007 00:07 (eighteen years ago)

Fuckity. Alan Moore writing Pig Bodine is my idea of...well, something anyway.

Oilyrags, Saturday, 20 October 2007 01:55 (eighteen years ago)

one month passes...

Just finished this.

Would've been cool if Moore worked in Ellison's Invisible Man, or RAS THE DESTROYER, though there's always Century.

Leee, Wednesday, 12 December 2007 21:36 (eighteen years ago)

I was confused with the upper echelons of UK government though, can someone sum it up? I got who the current M is, but how do BB and GO'B relate? It's been years since I read that particular novel.

Leee, Wednesday, 12 December 2007 21:58 (eighteen years ago)

I was really hoping to see Tyrone Slothrop or Pig Bodine. Oh well.

Oilyrags, Thursday, 13 December 2007 04:16 (eighteen years ago)

Great stuff, but I have to admit I really can't be arsed to read all the text-y bits. Am I missing anything?

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 13 December 2007 16:10 (eighteen years ago)

Not really, most of them add nice but inessential flavor, but ESPECIALLY the Sal Paradyse thing, puke. Of all of them, I'd say the most relatively important one to read is the very last one.

The Shakespeare passage I had trouble with, because 1. Gloriana's lines were more Spenserian (abba) than Shakey's rhymed couplets, though since she's Spenser's creation, it makes sense; 2. Pysse & Shytte should've spoken in prose, not verse -- that really bugged.

Leee, Thursday, 13 December 2007 16:48 (eighteen years ago)

I wonder if real books ever have this problem. ("What's this, a comic book insert? I'm not reading this shit!" Etc.)

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 13 December 2007 17:09 (eighteen years ago)

Dude, the Bertie Wooster vs Cthulhu bit is solid gold!

Oilyrags, Thursday, 13 December 2007 18:42 (eighteen years ago)

Just read the first half last night... Am I totally wrong for not digging this very much? I was never a fan of the text-heavy indulgent parts of AM's work (the Watchmen pirates) nor the creepy sexual part (Lost Girls). And while I liked the Extraordinary Gentleman stuff I read before, this doesn't feel or read anything like that.

Maybe this is meant for an ub3rf4n and that's not me?

Mordechai Shinefield, Thursday, 27 December 2007 13:07 (eighteen years ago)

Is the Black Dossier all texty? Oh dear.

I saw Alan Moore on TV the other night. Some of what he said was interesting, some was not, but it was a shame that no one popped the killer question to him: "Tell me Alan, have you ever come up with an original character in your long career writing comics?"

The Real Dirty Vicar, Friday, 28 December 2007 11:21 (eighteen years ago)

Tell me Alan, have you ever come up with an original character in your long career writing comics?

John Constantine?

chap, Friday, 28 December 2007 13:11 (eighteen years ago)

isn't there some anecdote about how Totleben kept drawing Sting in the background of Swamp Thing, and Alan Moore finally went "fuck it, I'll give him some lines"?

The Real Dirty Vicar, Friday, 28 December 2007 14:20 (eighteen years ago)

Top 10 has lots of characters, even if most are pastiches.

Jordan, Friday, 28 December 2007 20:34 (eighteen years ago)

William Shakespeare kept hearing about some king called Henry V, and finally went "fuck it, I'll give him some lines".

chap, Friday, 28 December 2007 21:13 (eighteen years ago)

I loved The Killing Joke and Swamp Thing, but maybe it's time to just admit it: I guess I don't really like Alan Moore much at all.

Mordechai Shinefield, Friday, 28 December 2007 21:42 (eighteen years ago)

Yes, the Black Dossier is all texty. What people seem to keep missing is that it's NOT League Volume 3, it's a sourcebook/atlas of the LoEG world/Handbook thingy (ie, all text as you'd expect from such a thing), with bonus comic bits in it to give extra fun/texture. If you don't normally like sourcebooks/handbooks, you probably won't like this. Leage Vol 3 comes out in 2008 (which I'll believe when it happens).

James Morrison, Saturday, 29 December 2007 00:35 (eighteen years ago)

I opted to get the Kirby Fourth World Omnibuses 2 and 3 instead of this... the textiness makes me less excited about it

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 2 January 2008 23:28 (eighteen years ago)

Tell me Alan, have you ever come up with an original character in your long career writing comics?"

rather missing the point ennit? (I can only assume Alan would contend that no characters are "original")

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 2 January 2008 23:29 (eighteen years ago)

I don't know if it's really missing the point. With some Alan Moore stuff the point is very much that it references and develops previously well known characters. But when he starts recycling really obscure characters that no one knows or cares about it smacks of laziness on his part. And also - the endless developing of previous characters has a certain one-trick-pony aspect to it.

The Real Dirty Vicar, Thursday, 3 January 2008 11:05 (seventeen years ago)

but... all comics are basically the "endless developing of previous characters" on some level. continuity + hero archetypes = little room for any kind of "originality". Originality is overrated anyway.

Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 3 January 2008 17:13 (seventeen years ago)

(well, all superhero comics anyway)

Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 3 January 2008 17:14 (seventeen years ago)

On some level, yes.

I suppose what I really mean is that I am annoyed to discover that some of the characters from Terra Obscura is just a straight lift from some minor characters from long forgotten 1940s/1950s comics... not hero archetypes, but the same characters.

I wonder are all the characters in Big Numbers lifted from Crossroads.

The Real Dirty Vicar, Thursday, 3 January 2008 17:49 (seventeen years ago)

I am annoyed to discover that some of the characters from Terra Obscura is just a straight lift from some minor characters from long forgotten 1940s/1950s comics

That's the entire PREMISE of Terra Obscura!

energy flash gordon, Friday, 4 January 2008 08:37 (seventeen years ago)

I thought the entire premise was loads of wierdo superheroes having exciting adventures. Oh well, I feel used now.

The Real Dirty Vicar, Friday, 4 January 2008 16:55 (seventeen years ago)

ten months pass...

can someone (ostensibly British I guess?) explain to me what the fuck that black puppet thing at the end of the book is...?

Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 13 November 2008 16:44 (seventeen years ago)

it's a gollywog.

not this country's best moment, I'm sure you'll agree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gollywog

Hamildan, Thursday, 13 November 2008 18:06 (seventeen years ago)

wtf

Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 13 November 2008 18:27 (seventeen years ago)

Assume everyone's read this already, but http://andweshallmarch.typepad.com/and_we_shall_march/the_black_dossier/index.html has a fairly thorough history of blackface & minstrelsy in England, creation of Sambo and Golliwog, and the ways in which Moore's attempt to "reclaim" the character is fundamentally wrong-headed.

arango, Friday, 14 November 2008 18:38 (seventeen years ago)

from the second of thirty-three posts about the golliwog there, there's something reinstated with the note:

"Update! I cut something out for reasons of space that I shouldn't have"

SHIT, THAT'S OKAY, CARRY ON CUTTING, REALLY IT'S NO PROBLEM

thomp, Monday, 17 November 2008 01:02 (seventeen years ago)

nice line on tosches' 'where dead voices gather', though: "For the record, I hate this book. It’s about Emmett Miller, but it is crippled by Tosches’ inability to get the fuck out of the way."

thomp, Monday, 17 November 2008 01:19 (seventeen years ago)

So she wrote 4 out of 5 parts before even reading the book? I'll be sure to pay attention

Niles Caulder, Tuesday, 18 November 2008 07:05 (seventeen years ago)

that shit was unreadable

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 19 November 2008 18:52 (seventeen years ago)

Yes, I perhaps should have warned that it was not particularly well-organized or focused. All I promised was "fairly thorough."

arango, Wednesday, 19 November 2008 19:17 (seventeen years ago)


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