Rolling Cancelled Comics Thread

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This is a thread for us to mourn - or mock - the passing of titles that have (to borrow a great phtase I read in an APA once) "gone the way of ALL-FLASH".

Needless to say it will mostly be updated around solicits time, but there may be other announcements, and we can check in when the final issues actually appear.

This thread only applies to ongoing series, not miniseries, however titles retconned into miniseries are of course fair game!

Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 11:47 (nineteen years ago)

So to kick things off, DC's MANHUNTER, dead at 30, and FIRESTORM, dead at 35.

MANHUNTER I only ever read one issue of - first post-OYL, and it was badly paced dreck. Obviously someone at DC held a candle for it because it bumped along with dreadful sales for a very long time.

FIRESTORM represents a big failure for DC - they've promoted this comic a lot, it's a flagship of their diversity policy, and they've angered lots of mentalists who seem to imagine Ronnie Raymond had a personality in the first place. The Stuart Moore issues of this are some of the most tedious superhero comics I can remember reading, but initially this wasn't a bad title, with an engaging if klutzy protagonist and some creepy moments.

Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 12:00 (nineteen years ago)

Didn't read any of this incarnation of Manhunter.

The first issues of Firestorm weren't bad at all, at least the ones up till the title was supposed to end for this series - they spent ages building it up, working hard on The Firestorm Matrix and the relative opsition of Martin Stein to 'Firestorm', culminating in going into space and somehow not dying despite all the plot implying Firestorm, in fact, had. At that point, I gave up.

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 12:33 (nineteen years ago)

MANHUNTER was a fan/blog favorite, and was actually cancelled @ 25 - because folks demanded it, the title was brought back for another 5 issues, either to tidy up any dangling threads, or to possibly give it a second chance to get an audience (which it never did).

I think ION was quickly retconned from a regular series to a mini, but that happened prior to the solicits, if it happened at all.

A belated shout-out to the two series helmed & killed by semi-recent DC exclusive writer Bruce Jones, WARLORD and the other one I can't remember, but I'm pretty sure existed.

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 14:47 (nineteen years ago)

MANHUNTER there was at least not much else like. FIRESTORM never got above seriously tedious; surprised to see that the final few issues seem to have connections to the next big DC event.

Douglas (Douglas), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 15:41 (nineteen years ago)

Of course, this also requires some sort of odds / deadpool thread / digression as well. Potential candidates:

- IRREDEEMABLE ANT-MAN (damn it)
- HEROES FOR HIRE
- SHADOWPACT
- THE ALL-NEW ATOM (damn it)
- HAWKWOMAN

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 15:50 (nineteen years ago)

Oh, and AQUAMAN, because it's a perennial favorite to get shitcanned.

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 15:52 (nineteen years ago)

H4H is doing quite well I thought, or at least launched at such high sales as for its inevitable decline to spin out over two or three years!

Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 16:00 (nineteen years ago)

don't forget The Blue Beatle.

barefoot manthing (Garrett Martin), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 16:03 (nineteen years ago)

Is this some kind of Mucca Home Porn reference?

Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 16:11 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, BLUE BEETLE's one as well, but I didn't want to put every OYL spinoff on there, esp. since I'm fond of BB. And (shocker, perhaps) CHECKMATE's 2nd storyline is a quantum leap forward from the middling espionage shenanigans in the first 6 issues. But I'm pretty sure every IC/OYL-related sales boost has been lost by now - I know FLASH is in no danger of being cancelled (or is it?!?!), but it lost an assload of sales after #1.

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 16:12 (nineteen years ago)

Oh, and as for a non-IC/CW potential casualty, TESTAMENT is selling really poorly, even for a Vertigo series.

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 16:14 (nineteen years ago)

If the rumours about the identity of Supernova are true, I think All-New Atom has always had a short shelf-life planned.

I don't think Jonah Hex will survive much longer. Despite their OYL/52/Superboy Punching pedigrees, I doubt Checkmate, Blue Beetle or Flash are doing very big numbers. Ghost Rider must be on shaky ground and holding out for the film, which will undoubtedly see it cancelled, and I suspect Sean McKeever leaving might be the nail in S-M[H]MJ's coffin. I'm sure nobody would be surprised if Jack Kirby's Galactic Bounty Hunters got canned.

If this was a serious deadpool, I'd stick my neck out and say Hellblazer.

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 16:15 (nineteen years ago)

I'd be surprised if they canned The Flash anytime soon. How was the old book selling before they rebooted it? Have they gone more than a few months without a Flash book being published since the '50's?

barefoot manthing (Garrett Martin), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 16:21 (nineteen years ago)

Jack K's GBH is a mini anyway.

Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 16:23 (nineteen years ago)

What's the sales threshold for cancellation nowadays?

M. V. (M.V.), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 16:23 (nineteen years ago)

Firestorm hasn't cracked 20K sold since last June, and just got cancelled. Manhunter was averaging around 15K since the summer of '05. Any book near that range has gotta be in trouble, and unfortunately Atom and Beetle are almost there.

barefoot manthing (Garrett Martin), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 16:32 (nineteen years ago)

Depends on the company. DC tend to let things linger for a while - pretty much no Vertigo books would reach the Marvel threshold, and those that do would be high risk, but of course the TPB market is more important for them.

For core-universe ongoing superhero stuff, Marvel pulls the plug at around 20k, DC at around 15k, if the figures Paul O Brien and that other guy use are accurate.

For indie stuff it depends on the individual business model even more.

Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 16:34 (nineteen years ago)

Why would the Flash be cancelled? They are starting a new creative team in a month, and they are treating that as a secondary relaunch. The Flash is big enough as a DC property that they are willing to float it along -- I mean, they've been doing that for decades, basically.

M Perpetua (mperpetua), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 17:28 (nineteen years ago)

John Byrne kills everything he touches, doesn't he?

M Perpetua (mperpetua), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 17:30 (nineteen years ago)

Actually does Marvel even announce any more when it's cancelling a series - doesn't it just tend to let things pass quietly off the schedules...?

Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 17:52 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, the THING cancellation (& the axing of the UNLIMITED series)just kinda happened.

Another Marvel candidate for early retirement: BLADE. The third issue featured a pull quote from the star of the Blade series ("I like this!" - Kirk "Sticky" Jones), which had been cancelled by the time the issue hit shelves. Timing is everything!

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 17:58 (nineteen years ago)

John Byrne kills everything he touches, doesn't he?

The only thing this could be related to was ATOM, and its lackluster sales have nothing to do w/ Byrne being on or off this title. It has to do w/ the lack of interest in Atom - specifically, an Atom that isn't THE Atom - as a protagonist in his own series (despite the series being enjoyable & fun & all of the things sadfaced superhero-loving bastards should love).

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 18:18 (nineteen years ago)

All-New Atom is REALLY GOOD, though and they still have SO MANY mysteries to solve. Remember, A BELL, NO SPRY MATTER. Though the "All-New" part of the title doesn't seem to destine longevity.
I didn't even notice Firestorm got the axe. Manhunter joining BOP seemed the certain death-knell for that series, since BOP where middling or worse heroines go to be FUN.
An Ostrander Suicide Squad, even as a ltd series, undermines Checkmate, just as it did in the 80s.
ION was originally solicited as a 12-issue "maxi-series", and it seems rather plodded, er, plotted as such.
If Blue Beetle can hold on until the third issue of Brave & the Bold comes out, it might get a small boost after Jaime teams up with Batman, but that's unlikely. It'll probably make it to the next Crossover Event, and then Jaime will join BOP.

The nu-Flash has so far been the biggest misstep for DC coming out of Infinite Crisis (unless you count the Wonder Woman shipping disaster). The previous Flash title had been selling quite well (at least until the last half dozen or so issues, which were mostly pulled from storage), thanks in part to Geoff Johns' then-rising star and some actually good stories and art. Not only did the changing of the guard happen in a pretty non-dramatic, non-engaging, non-committal way, but the follow-up series wholly sucked. Furthermore, Wally still lives in JLA: Classified, and he's still a great character as long as Marv Wolfman isn't writing him (Whingy West), so he'll be back in the next Crossover Event, and maybe they'll even resume the numbering of his series.

Ray Palmer, howev, should stay wherever he's at.

Huk-L (Huk-L), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 18:45 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, but Byrne has run several properties into the ground in recent years, I wasn't just talking about the Atom. Now, it's true that DC has been giving him titles that don't have proven audiences (Doom Patrol, the Demon, the Atom...), but it seems like he can't BRING people to those books in any meaningful numbers.

M Perpetua (mperpetua), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 18:49 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, he hasn't had all that much cache w/ non-Byrne-Robotics folks for at least a decade (which is odd to think about, but I think it's true). At least assigning Byrne to ATOM meant they were getting him away from his keyboard. Regardless, whatever bridges he once had @ DC have probably been all blown to shit by now, and I think he's actually eroded his Byrne board fanbase as well (which I thought would be nigh-impossible, given the logistical handsprings they've gone thru in the past to justify his idiocy).

I'm actually kinda sad they let him go / he ran off, tho - his work w/ Ms. Simone (on her all-too-short ACTION COMICS run, & especially ATOM) was the best stuff from him I can remember seeing in a loooooooooong time.

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 19:01 (nineteen years ago)

Man, I don't get the appeal of Gail Simone at all. Everything I've read by her just seems really bland to me.

M Perpetua (mperpetua), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 19:04 (nineteen years ago)

And yeah, I've read a bit of the Atom series.

M Perpetua (mperpetua), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 19:05 (nineteen years ago)

I kind of agree w/ M Perpetuum -- I find her dialogue kinda wordy and forced, though maybe it works better when actors are speaking her lines. (Yes, I just saw her JLU episode this past week.)

c('°c) (Leee), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 19:08 (nineteen years ago)

I'm slapping both of you IN THE FUTURE.

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 19:12 (nineteen years ago)

SLAPPED TO THE FUTURE.

c('°c) (Leee), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 19:52 (nineteen years ago)

Hit to death in the future head.

do i have to draw you a diaphragm (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 19:57 (nineteen years ago)

Let the record show that I am hoping HEROES FOR HIRE sticks around a little longer, now that Zeb Wells (the FF / Iron Man dude, amongst other credits) is hopping on board.

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 20:57 (nineteen years ago)

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for broads in comics, writing them even, but maybe Simone would be better on a TV show like Gilmore Girls.

<(-'O'-)> (Leee), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 20:58 (nineteen years ago)

So the solicitation for Nextwave #12 on the Marvel site basically sez "FUCK YOU FOR NOT BUYING THIS BOOK, IT'S YR FAULT WE GOT CANCELLED!"

WAHT

The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 21:15 (nineteen years ago)

Every NEXTWAVE solicitation is like that - the ones early on were something like, "THIS IS THE COOLEST BOOK EVER AND FUCK YOU IF YOU DON'T BUY IT YOU ASSHOLE."

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 22:12 (nineteen years ago)

Dude, I'd like Gail Simone if she wrote anything at all like Amy Sherman-Palladino!

M Perpetua (mperpetua), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 22:13 (nineteen years ago)

NEXTWAVE: AGENTS OF H.A.T.E. #12

The Story: To all those who HAVEN’T been buying NEXTWAVE–
Thanks a lot, jerks! This is the last issue! To all those who HAVE been buying NEXTWAVE– YOU RULE!! Do not miss this pulse-pounding conclusion to the greatest work of western literature EVER! Hamlet? Horrible. War and Peace? What-a-joke! The Great Gatsby? The Great Lame-by, maybe. Those works are going to be moved to the Bad Section of your local bookstores after this issue comes out. Don't miss this or you won’t know what your children’s children are reading in school.

The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 22:18 (nineteen years ago)

BTW, don't get ME wrong, but that future punch is still coming for both of you non-Simonites.

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 22:26 (nineteen years ago)

I like "Villains United" better than "Gilmore Girls". The supporting cast wasn't as annoying.

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Tuesday, 16 January 2007 23:54 (nineteen years ago)

LITG sez that Hawkgirl and her impossiboobs shall soon be gone as well.

barefoot manthing (Garrett Martin), Wednesday, 17 January 2007 04:28 (nineteen years ago)

I will join the Airplane-like list of people looking slightly futuristic who will be slapping David and Leee. Though have either of you read Agent X?

Manhunter was one of the two or three OYL titles what went out of their way to reassure us that even in this confusing future, there would still be serial killers offing broads. And it was probably the worst of the three (was BOP one of the others?) so my interest never really returned.

A belated shout-out to the two series helmed & killed by semi-recent DC exclusive writer Bruce Jones, WARLORD and the other one I can't remember, but I'm pretty sure existed.

The fact that Nightwing isn't on this list despite having the first six post-OYL issues written by this hack's hack suggests that Dick Grayson + Jason Todd = a comic that cannot be killed.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 17 January 2007 12:07 (nineteen years ago)

Argh, Matthew not David!

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 17 January 2007 12:08 (nineteen years ago)

Nightwing is probably deemed too big of a character to cancel -- like the Flash, it's just something where you just get a new creative team and try again. Manhunter, Firestorm -- those are no-name characters, and it's not really a big deal to take them off the schedule.

M Perpetua (mperpetua), Wednesday, 17 January 2007 13:40 (nineteen years ago)

If Nightwing is a name character, then I'm Spartacus. It's probably just Eau du Bat that keeps that turderlinger lingering.

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 17 January 2007 14:25 (nineteen years ago)

Ladies Love Cool Dick.

Manhunter's buggest problem was it was so impressed with its premise (Layer turned superhero, occasionally kills - though changes mind on killing after about ten issues) it did not notice that this premise was being done for both roffles and serious by Marvel MUCH BETTER.

Pete (Pete), Wednesday, 17 January 2007 14:35 (nineteen years ago)

What word is Layer supposed to be there? I can't figure it out, which sort of limits my ability to tackle your thesis.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 17 January 2007 15:01 (nineteen years ago)

LAWYER

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 17 January 2007 15:11 (nineteen years ago)

(I think)

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 17 January 2007 15:11 (nineteen years ago)

As I understand it Nightwing fans are desperate and quality-starved enough that the 'definitive run' they look back on fondly was by Chuck Dixon. So I don't know what DC would have to do to get it in the cancellation zone.

Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 17 January 2007 15:12 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, the history of NIGHTWING isn't exactly filled w/ notable creators:

- Chuck Dixon
- Devin Grayson
- um, Bruce Jones
- and now MARV WOLFMAN?

Were Dixon & Grayson the only writers on the title for 110+ issues? That can't be right.

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 17 January 2007 15:19 (nineteen years ago)

Ah yes. I think there's possibly an extent to which the tantalising prospect of all John Grisham's fans picking up a comic will always gleam brightly in certain executives' eyes.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 17 January 2007 15:46 (nineteen years ago)

Also Manhunter was all "she's a bad mother, she smokes, she's a bit arsey!!!" which would all make for the most originalist character ever if you had never say, watched TV or read a book or something.

Mark Co (Markco), Wednesday, 17 January 2007 17:24 (nineteen years ago)

Manhunter's one of those perennial "no one really cares" franchises that DC reboots (and cancels) once every five or six years. (See also the Creeper, John Stewart solo stories, Hawkgirl/man/boy/love, etc.)

My personal opinion is that the series failed because the costume is just fucking stupid.

Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Wednesday, 17 January 2007 20:25 (nineteen years ago)

Manhunter's probably in the same spot now that Starman was when James Robinson got ahold of him / it. If someone did something w/ the Manhunters akin to what Brubaker & Fraction are doing w/ the Iron Fists, it could work (for about 12K a month).

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 17 January 2007 21:02 (nineteen years ago)

Pour one out for THE BOYS - axed w/ #6 despite having better #s than all but 2 of its Wildstorm brethren (GEN13 & MIDNIGHTER). The last issue placed #81 on the Diamond Top 200! Of course, maybe DC was flinching @ publishing a book that featured gerbils burrowing out of people's orifices. Or dogs having wanton sex. Or superheroines being coerced into giving blowjobs in order to join a superteam. Garth Ennis & Darick Robertson, ladies & germs - they'll probably be bringing their I HATE SPANDEX fun to you via another publisher real soon. You ask me, it started off on a very bad foot, but got better as soon as it was able to integrate the EWWW GROSS bits w/ some hackneyed plot bits. And if there's anyone I'd want to see draw this sort of EWWW GROSS, I guess it'd be DR (since we share initials).

David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 25 January 2007 00:12 (nineteen years ago)

Oh - and this move was made, according to the article, w/ issues 7 through 10 already solicited, and a TPB in the works.

David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 25 January 2007 00:13 (nineteen years ago)

As for HEROES FOR HIRE:


66. HEROES FOR HIRE
08/06 #1 - 84,006
09/06 #2 - 66,949 (-20.3%)
10/06 #3 - 60,770 ( -9.2%)
11/06 #4 - 38,070 (-37.4%)
12/06 #5 - 31,318 (-17.7%)

Yikes.

David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 25 January 2007 00:15 (nineteen years ago)

was issue three really, really bad or something

tom west (thomp), Thursday, 25 January 2007 00:35 (nineteen years ago)

don't see how it could've been much worse than issue one.

barefoot manthing (Garrett Martin), Thursday, 25 January 2007 02:39 (nineteen years ago)

It actually got "better," I swear.

David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 25 January 2007 03:41 (nineteen years ago)

Did it guest star Street Poet Ray? Was the decimal point accidentally left out of the price? ... did Priest write it?

Tep (ktepi), Thursday, 25 January 2007 03:56 (nineteen years ago)

Only the first three issues were Civil War tie-ins, which might explain the huge drop in sales between issues 3 and 4.

Oblivious Lad. (Oblivious Lad), Thursday, 25 January 2007 04:46 (nineteen years ago)

Oh, you guys were talking about H2H, not THE BOYZZZZ. Yeah, 1 thru 3 were CW tie-ins. Can't see why folks didn't want to stick w/ a series centered around supporting characters from POWER MAN & IRON FIST. And Shang-Chi. And HUMBUG.

David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 25 January 2007 05:43 (nineteen years ago)

I'll join David in saying The Boys was actually pretty good. The first couple of issues were kind of weak on reading them the first time, but if you accept them as nothing more than tone-setters and back story for Simon Pegg then they're acceptable enough, I think. DR has been dropping hints about taking it to another publisher, but I'm kind of worried that it'll end up at Avatar.

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Thursday, 25 January 2007 11:25 (nineteen years ago)

Given Garth's existing relationship w/ the Avatar folks, I wouldn't be surprised. Which means we can look forward to a) $4.00 cover prices & b) 15 cover variants (Normal, Water Sports, Sodomy, A2M, Goatse, Tune in Tokyo, etc.).

David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 25 January 2007 14:11 (nineteen years ago)

Great, I will now forever associate Wraparound cover with Reacharound cover.

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Thursday, 25 January 2007 14:45 (nineteen years ago)

Urgh, I couldn't take The Boys. Too Ennis, even by Ennis's standards.

Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Thursday, 25 January 2007 20:11 (nineteen years ago)


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