Messiah Complex

Ha, I get the feeling this thread is just going to be for the two of us, Mordechai.

Okay, three if you count PREDATOR X!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

God. I hope Predator X eats the entire New X-Men team this week.

Cyclops: What happened to the New X-Men?
Storm: Predator X ate them.
Cyclops: Oh.

I could possibly become a fan of Predator X is he eats at least 2/3rds of that team.

Did you see the solicitation for the first storyline in Brubaker's Uncanny X-Men immediately after the crossover? I can't imagine what the hell they are thinking:

Cyclops and Emma Frost adventure to the strangest land of all – San Francisco. The city has transformed into a bizarre version of itself circa 1968, complete with VW Bugs, flower power and hippies as far as the eye can see. Will they be able to lure Angel back to reality? Or will they succumb to their groovy desires and embrace the love generation forever? Also, Colossus (with Wolverine and Nightcrawler in tow) returns to Mother Russia!

Uh, really, Ed?

omfg. That is... wow. I'm speechless.

I don't know, bro. Finding out whether or not they "succumb to their groovy desires" is a pretty high-stakes story!

I have three theories:

1) Marvel is fucking with us because they don't want to get spoiler-ish plot points out there while the crossover is in progress.

2) Just as they did immediately after Inferno and Fall of the Mutants etc, they want to do a brief, relatively light-hearted story after the relentless darkness of the crossover instead of, y'know, keeping up the momentum.

3) Peter Milligan has possessed the body and mind of Ed Brubaker.

Honestly, the thing with Piotr going back to Mother Russia sounds waaaaaaaay worse. I mean, c'mon, the timeline is really dodgy at this point -- he left Russia during the Communist era! If we follow that strictly, Colossus is like 47 or something at this point.

Hey. If Madrox can date Layla, Piotr can date Kitty.

Seriously, what is the effing point of having Colossus in the X-Men if Kitty isn't around? THERE WAS A REASON WHY THEY KILLED HIM OFF BACK WHEN.

You're shipping Jamie and Layla haaaaaaaard, man. What do Jamie/Layla shippers call themselves? Laylox? Jayla? Madla?

Here's what I think about the San Francisco story.

Laylox. Brilliant. Jamillers? JJers?

Did you see the solicitation for the first storyline in Brubaker's Uncanny X-Men immediately after the crossover? I can't imagine what the hell they are thinking

They might be thinking that Roger Stern's fill-in issue of All New Atom a few months ago was pretty good, since they're using pretty much the exact same premise.

Awwwww, poor Caliban.

WTF @ Hellion still being alive, though. HE GOT HIS ENTIRE TORSO TORN OUT. That's some bullshit.

DUDE he lost his SPLEEN. That is SERIOUS busiNESS.

It'd better be! I really don't see the point of even teasing it. We know Nightcrawler will be just fine two issues from now, so there's no reason for it not to be like "oh hey, Elixir showed up, he made it better."

1. I thought it was charming when it was about characters I didn't care about, but now, I only have one thing to say: Fuck Ramos' shitty little kid anime bullshit art.

2. Next Week: Madrox Gets Marked (I first read this as Madrox Gets Married. Sob.)

3. X-23 Beating the Shit Out of Lady Deathstrike. Bitchin.

4. Caliban? Eh. Who cares.

5. Sigh. Rahne, rahne, rahne. Don't Even.

Does anyone want to have a go at trying to explain this to me?

I have only a passing knowledge of X-Men continuity - especially as the only X-titles I read in the past 15 years seem to have either been retconned out of existence (the GM New X-Men issues) or take place in some weird parallel continuity (Whedon's Astonishing)

I second that request.

Basically in 2005, Scarlet Witch had a mental breakdown. Because her (secondary?) powers had developed to a point where she could change the fabric of reality - when she lost her mind, she became dangerous. The Avengers and X-Men met to decide what to do about her. They decided to visit her before making a final decision. Distraught over the possibility that they'd kill his sister, Petro convinced Scarlet Witch to change the world to one where everyone got what they wished (except, apparently, human heroes). Thus House of M was born.

Layla Miller and Wolverine were the only two people in House of M to realize something was wrong. Layla because her mutant power is knowing things (along with a few other ambiguous powers). Wolverine because what he wished was remembering his past, and so his past also included the pre House of M time. So he remembered that things used to be different. Using Layla to awaken the other heroes, they went to confront Petro + Wanda. Wanda, her grip of reality as precarious as ever, uttered the phrase "No More Mutants." At that very moment, almost all mutants in the world (who until now were a sizable minority on the planet) lost their powers. Additionally, since then, no more mutants developed their powers. Only 100 (or 99, or some other number) mutants were left. Mostly the ones we like.

Earlier this year, Beast went on a quest to try to solve the mutant crisis. He even enlisted Dark Beast (from AOA, right?) to help him. But even trying horrible things and enlisting the help of evil people, Beast still had to give up.

In Blinded By the Light (in adjectiveless X-Men), we learned that a number of things predicted something momentous. Sinister and the Marauders (who included Gambit) tried to put all the telepaths out of commission in order to keep the knowledge of the upcoming events hidden. Soon we learned that the first mutant baby since House of M had been born. When the X-Men arrived at the location of the baby, they saw that a town had been devastated by a battle between the Marauders and the Purifiers (the group led by William Stryker). And the baby was missing.

And here we are.

At the moment, all the teams have folded into one unified (or something close) X-Men team.

Also, New X-Men has been retconned out of existence? That hasn't been my experience...

Also, Kitty is nowhere to be found (though she was in Blinded By the Light). If you're going to catch up, just bother with Blinded By the Light and the Messiah Complex issues. No need to bother with the Endangered Species storyline (the one with Beast trying to solve the problem).

Any other questions?

(I don't know how much of what I said requires more clarification, so let me know.)

The only thing in Morrison's New X-Men that has been retconned is the thing about Xorn being Magneto is disguise. That's total bullshit, I know, but that's really about it. I mean, a lot of the No More Mutants stuff puts the brakes on a lot of stuff Morrison was doing, but it's not a retcon by any means. Arguably the most important thing to happen to the franchise in this decade was making Emma Frost one of the central characters and setting up her relationship with Cyclops, and that's Grant Morrison's doing.

I'm sad about Caliban! I thought it was a good idea to revert him back to the classic Caliban style and have him join the X-Men. Such a waste.

Why does Humberto Ramos insist on drawing Layla Miller as a toddler? I really want to understand that. The other artists seem to grasp that's she's about 13, but not him.

Do we know yet who the Messiah is supposed to be? Is it the baby?

Isn't it more about a person who has a "messiah complex"? I think we're supposed to recognize that it most of the key characters -- they are all coming into conflict right now cos they think they have the vision to lead whatever people they have -- Cyclops, Xavier, Sinister, the Purifiers, Cable.

If Predator X eats the Nu X-Men, he is obvs the messiah.

Ramos draws everyone so they look like toddlers. That's kind of his thing.

I really wanted to like Messiah Complex, and was stoked to think the xbooks were heading into a big, convincing event. Unfortunately we're getting something much closer to X-Cutioner's Song than Civil War - stuff happens every issue, there's lots of action, but most of it is so inane it's hard to invest much in it. I like Cable and the baby, and there have been a few great moments (I thought the raid on Sinister's base was rock-solid, barring some jumpiness from having too many characters in the scene at once), but some general crimes are hard to get past:

1) The drip-feed of the Layla & Madrox stuff is just inane. I have long since given up hope that the Madrox sent to the other possible future (never seen since he first went there) will have gone somewhere more interesting than yet another mutant genocide future. If he was, we would have seen it by now. So we get a few pages each issue that basically do nothing but re-establish that Layla and Madrox are in a mutant genocide future. It's like reading Dick Tracy strips - panel one is a recap, panel three is a cliffhanger for next week, so how much can you do?

2) Nonsensical motivations for most of the cast. Since every one of the villains is playing a big game whose real nature we can't see, it's hard to follow their schemes or understand why all these people are working together, or what differentiates an Acolyte and a Marauder at this point. Deathstrike's explanation of why she was working with the Purifiers was particularly garbled....but nothing can top the fact that all the heroes, for no plausible reason that has ever been stated, decide that they need to hunt down and kill Cable. Even when he is clearly in the midst of trying to save the baby's life from Deathstrike.

3) Speaking of that fight with Deathstrike, I have to say that while both she and Caliban aren't my most beloved x-figures, it's pretty lame to see both of them get sacrificed to one of the most unlikely fight scenes ever - in which a bunch of faceless minions somehow hold off seven or eight powerful x-hero types, who, again, are here to kill Cable for no reason at all.

4) Predator X. I don't know how this idea looked when they were outlining the story but it's really not worked out. The goofy design is clearly part of the problem, but really, the only thing that can save this is if Predator X finally reaches the X-Men and they kill it in like two panels, in the midst of carrying on a pleasant conversation.

I think that's pretty reasonable criticism, esp. re: Predator FUCKING X.

I think the thing with Cable is that, well, a lot of this story is a deliberate homage to previous X-overs, and the "everyone is convinced Cable is a bad guy" riff is a thing from X-Cutioner's Song. (Just as much as the baby itself is a nod to Inferno.) So while I mostly side with you on this, if you're willing to play along with the writers (most obviously Carey's) fanboy po-mo game, it's fine. A lot of this story is very clearly "hey, let's dump out all the toys on the living room floor!"

Obvs the worst thing in Messiah Complex is the nonsensical bit where the ONE Sentinels attack. That had BETTER get some pay-off later in the story or I'm going to be pissed.

I mean, really, there's not much room left in the story! I have no idea how the hell they are going to wrap it all up. Things that need to happen in the space of the next five issues, one of which is out tomorrow:

1) We have to find out who the baby is, and why her power manifested at birth. (Is it Jean? Is this a Phoenix thing?)

2) We have to find out what's happening in the future, and how it relates to the story in the present.

3) We have to find out who the X-Men traitor is going to be.

4) Presumably Rogue is going to be involved at some point.

5) Predator X finally shows up and justifies its weirdly hyped-up presence in the story. (What if Predator X just shows up to gobble up the baby, and that's it?)

6) We have to find out what the fuck was going on with the Sentinels, which presumably has something to do with the future and/or the Purifiers. (We need more info on the Purifiers in general -- clearly we're missing a big piece of the puzzle there.)

7) Hellion needs to just fucking die already.

8) The X-Men have to fight the Marauders again, just cuz.

9) Xavier has to do something other than just pout about Cyclops. (Presumably, he will become the teacher of the Nu Young X-Men.

I wanna second Mr. Perpetua, in that while much of the narrative is jumbled (all the trackers on the new X-Force team? wtf?), much of what is cool here is how everything is being thrown together and (assumedly) being shaken back out. I love the fact that the teams are basically dissolved.

I think it's really funny that the only people they sent after Cable are the characters who go stabby. It's like, really? That's gonna take down Cable? The brilliant cyborg telepath with the enormous guns? Okay!

Okay, things are definitely back on track this week.

Of course I thought the M+L part of this week's issue was by far the best (and grimmest and disturbing). I'm not even totally sure I understand every plot point in the rest of #206.

B is the traitor? But isn't C also a traitor? So if B is stopping C, isn't B a good guy? And since they're both from the future (and B, with the M on his forehead, obviously from the same future we're seeing M+L in) isn't it likely they are playing an entirely different game than the rest of the X-Men?

Loved:
1. Spider "Tattoo-artist" Jerusalem
2. The 3 Cuckoos
3. Cutie Monet on the jet

Question: No matter what they do to Madrox, once he's dead, he'll be reabsorbed. But L seems really fucked, huh?

(And I know B always has that M on his forehead. I just mean that it's an explicit connection.)

SPOILERS COS EVEN WITH FIRST INITIALS WHAT I HAVE TO SAY GIVES IT AWAY

Cable is clearly a good guy. The deal with that character is that they always play that game of "oh, everyone thinks he's bad" but he's got the right idea, he just doesn't communicate with anyone and people get confused.

Bishop -- depending on where they go with this, it all fits rather nicely with the character's backstory and recent history, and let's be honest, he's totally expendable. And plus the irony -- his original shtick was all about finding the X-Men traitor, and it turns out to be him! Ha ha, Bish! That said, uh, maybe they should've had Bishop figure a little more prominently earlier in the story? If you're just reading this thing in the eventual trade, it totally comes out of nowhere.

Naked Layla was a bit much!

I really get the feeling that Madrox -- every Madrox! -- is going to be permanently stuck with that tattoo. I mean, they made a point of saying that it was on his DNA, right?

What's funny about this Madrox thing is that earlier this year, David went through such an effort to explain that Madrox technically wasn't a mutant.

Omg. I forgot about that. Madrox was born with powers, right? Like the baby!

And you're right that Layla was a bit over the top, but Madrox's concern for her (Are you alright, Layla? Where is Layla?) was completely heartbreaking.

Think about the severe ramifications of every Jamie having that tattoo -- it would blow his cover all over the place, he really couldn't operate as he has been doing in the past. It'd be a total disaster for him.

I don't know why it would show up on the prime-M if the dupe was reabsorbed. If one of M's dupes got a virus, and M absorbed them, would he then have the virus? What if one of the dupes had herpes showing on his lip and M absorbed him? Would M suddenly have herp on the mouth?

I don't know. I get the feeling that they were telling us that the tattoo was going on his DNA for a reason. I'm of two minds on this -- I think doing the tattoo limits the kind of stories you can tell with Jamie, especially after David went through so much effort to show us the character's full potential, but then again, the ramifications could be pretty interesting.

Not as great as last week, but still packed with tons of stuff I loved.
1. Layla walking across the rubble with her arms out at her sides.
2. "I wish, but no he's basically brain dead right now... I mean more so than usual, even."
3. Bishop baby-killer!

My best guess is that Bishop wants to kill the baby, because the baby is going to prevent the Bishop future from happening. And so Bishop wants to save his own life. But Cable needs to protect the baby, because he realizes that it's worth losing Bishop (and how!) if it'll stop that horrible apocalyptic horror. And I figure the X-Men, Purifiers, and Marauders have no real idea what is going on.

Btw: What ever happened to that Qwerty mutant and her future book?

It's amazing how Brubaker sucks all the energy out of the story in his chapters. So great that he's going to be the main guy writing the core book, right? He writes the X-Men as if he's lost a bet.

Mordechai, earlier in the story in one of the bits with Laydrox, there's some implication that the concentration camps in Bishop's future were put together by mutants, not humans. Maybe I'm remembering that wrong? It was something to the effect that it was a particular mutant's fault. I suspect that this baby has something to do with the "six minute war," which is probably the event that led to the camps, a la 9/11 and Gitmo. I still hold out the suspicion that this child could be the Phoenix.

I'd kinda love it if Scott and Emma had to raise a reincarnated baby Jean.

Oh, anyway, I think Bishop wants to kill his future, not save himself. Bishop is still basically a heroic character.

So then what does Cable want to do? (Since Bishop was particularly betraying Cable, suggesting that he had a different motive in mind.)

Well, you know, Cable and Bishop come from different futures! They have totally different ideas about the outcome, probably.

Hey, remember when they sent Jamie to TWO futures? And then we only ever saw Bishop's future? The other future might be Cable's.

Yeah, I've been leaning on the assumption that these are the Bishop and Cable futures - AND THE X-MEN MUST FIND A THIRD WAY! Meh. Not exactly thrilled with that, partly because the story is really poorly-paced. Given that these things come out once a week and they know the whole schedule in advance, it's really annoying to spend most of the story teasing things Bishop and Cable might know, but aren't saying for no given reason at all. Presumably we'll be given some reason later, but it means that for the majority of the story almost none of the characters have any clear motivation.

My new hope is that the baby's mutant power is to send people to the future. When Predator X arrives, it will be sent far away, fuse with the Madrox that the story has completely forgotten about, and turn out to be the origin of APOCALYPSE. (Either Apocalypse or Stryfe has to show up at some point...) Cable is like NOOOOOOOOOO and then the story ends.

I think the real problem here, still, is that there's no sense that this is a big, bold event that will set the stage for the promised relaunch that gets the xbooks on track. The deeper we get into continuity teases, the farther we seem to be from where the line needs to be.

I feel like I have to wait til it ends to comment on the pace -- I feel like it's paced really well for a weekly story, but the end is coming close and I'm worried that it will be very abrupt. I kinda wish there was another couple months of this, or honestly, that the X-books would just keep doing this indefinitely.

I do think you're making this more complicated than it needs to be, Doc. Basically, this is setting up a new status quo in which:

* There is a smaller number of active X-Men.
* The X-Men and their related groups have clear enemies: The Marauders and The Purifiers.
* The X-Men have clear, immediate goals to work towards, and they will now be active instead of passive in the way they deal with these things. (Ha, see how long that lasts...)

A lot of the reason motivations seem unclear is really only because they've held off on the big reveal of exactly who this baby is, or will become. But still, it's mostly quite straightforward:

Bishop: Wants to prevent his future from happening.

Cable: Believes this child is important and must be protected.

Cyclops and the X-Men/X-Factor/Nu X-Men/X-Force: Want to protect the child and eventually indoctrinate it to their point of view.

Sinister and the Marauders/Acolytes: Want to protect the child and eventually indoctrinate it to their point of view.

The Purifiers: Want to kill the baby because they want to kill all mutants, basically.

Deathstrike and the Reavers: They are basically henchmen of the Purifiers.

Predator X: Wants to eat the baby (and other mutants), was made by the Purifiers.

Honestly, my big issue in this story is the Purifiers -- they are totally faceless, we have no sense of them being actual people, just insane maniacs with guns. Someone really, really, really needs to flesh out the Purifiers. Ideally, that person should have some sensitivity towards religion and Christianity, because as it is, the Purifiers are pretty fucking offensive.

Perpetua, I agree with you about the Purifiers. I actually wonder if they haven't built some stuff in already that they plan to flesh out later. Like apparently Styker prophesied the baby coming, which implies he wasn't just a big fat idiot. And something kept Deathstrike interested in the group.

I'm trying to find the X-Factor issue where Rahne has her vision of killing Laylox on their wedding day. Do any of you remember which one it is? I'm curious if we can see Layla's face in the panel, and if it has an M on it.

Yeah, I definitely called it re: Jamie's tattoo.

This was a pretty strong issue -- it's too bad the art was such a rush job, but at least it was easy to read. I just feel like there are some crucial story moments that got underplayed by the blandness of the art.

Agreed for the most part about the art, and I am extremely annoyed that the tattoo thing went that way. But there were more good moments in this issue than there've been in a while - the closeup of Layla's face looking away from Madrox at the end of that scene was really really great. This storyline in general needed more of that kind of stuff and less Pizza Hut art of Cyclops. I also have a soft spot for comics where they draw Professor X like Patrick Stewart.

Huge DUD: child Bishop talking like a streetwise old soothsayer. "That's some bullcrap, homey! 'The great darkness,' some called it."

Next issue: New X-Men versus Predator X! Whoever loses...we win!

Pizza Hut art of Cyclops?

I think child Bishop was confusing X-Men continuity with Legion continuity.

"There were mad Daxamites all up in their grills, homey."

"Pizza Hut art" is a term I'm trying to propagate for when comics look like free giveaway comics that would come with a personal pan pizza at Pizza Hut. The scene in this latest issue with Cyclops, Emma and everybody figuring things out would be a good example.

You can also refer to "Pizza Hut books" for comics that consistently have lame art and go-nowhere, too-tidy stories, ie "Man, I hope Warren Ellis can breathe some life into this Pizza Hut book."

I kinda thought that's where you were going with it.

Scot Eaton's art is usually a lot better than this -- the art in this issue was obviously the result of everyone involved speeding through to make the deadline and not throw off the weekly schedule of the crossover. It's competent, at least!

This last issue really tore me. Siryn by Jamie's bed, praying for him to wake up, was so moving, and her thrill when he did felt so real, that now I don't know whether I'm shipping harder for Laylox or them. Not to mention they have the advantage of both being old enough.

So is Layla stuck in the future, now?

I think Layla is stuck in the future just long enough for when she and Jamie are reunited, she'll be TOTALLY LEGAL. Watch out Theresa and Monet!

It's kinda funny that X-Factor is like JAMIE AND HIS HAREM, but also totally sensible given that he's the Multiple Man.

Question: Would it be totally weird to date a girl who had the exact same face tat as you? If nothing, that would make for some awkward social moments, right?

Is Madrox hooks up with Theresa, he gets access to that hot castle Banshee left her, huh?

If*

I like this idea of Layla being raised in the future, but only if it pans out as her becoming a grizzled, gun-toting warrior, who continues to develop her psychic powers until able to send herself back in time. Her codename: Layble.

Lambo: One war against one girl.

Here's a thought: Maybe Layla "knows stuff" because she spent time in the future? It's a big time loop for her.

Peter David said recently in X-Position:

Honestly – do we really want to know [how Layla's powers work]? I have my own thoughts and theories as to how and why Layla can do what she does, but I'm not convinced that revealing them would improve the character one iota. I mean, Wolverine was an enigma for decades; if Marvel had never done “Wolverine: Origins,” it wouldn't have bothered me at all. So I'm not certain that doing “Layla Miller: Origins” would be such a good idea.

I'm really glad that he feels that way. I'm kinda bored with people over-explaining shit in comics.

Speaking of under-explaining shit....do we want to tackle the finale?

I like that they had the militant black psycho kill the saintly white preacher for nonviolence on Dr. King week. That was real classy. I also love that the X-Men went to Muir Island specifically to catch up with said psycho and then can't be bothered to make sure they've actually got him locked up someplace.

So despite the mystery of the incredible vanishing body (that nobody but the artist seems to be noticing), it's hard to really feel excited about everything promoted on the final page. My favorite team X-Force goes after my favorite villains the Purifiers? woo, I guess.

Somehow retitling Carey's book "X-Men Legacy" doesn't really make this feel like a bold new beginning.

I think we need to consider the real consequence of Messiah Complex:

X-Factor without Wolfsbane (Yay!) and Madrox on a mission to save Layla.

That makes it worthwhile IMHO.

Actually, some things /did/ confuse me in the last issue. What was the whole thing about the two children? I assume one was Summers/Grey's baby (a boy) and Cable's kiddo is a girl? What's the relationship between the two?

What was the whole thing about the two children? I assume one was Summers/Grey's baby (a boy) and Cable's kiddo is a girl? What's the relationship between the two?

Do you mean the grayscale flashbacks Cyclops has when the baby grabs on to his never-before-mentioned locket? IIRC they were of Scott giving up baby Cable to Askani, Jean dying in Scott's arms, and Scott in the future saying goodbye to teenage Cable (from the now-somewhat-obscure Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix mini).

It remains unclear what the baby actually has to do with Cable's future. It seems strongly implied that the baby is the reborn Phoenix, so maybe Cable just needs it to help heal his fucked-up world.

Yeah, it's pretty obvs that this child is the new Phoenix.

Anyway, apparently the thing with Charles' disappearing body is explained in X-Men: Legacy --- Tempo stopped time so that the Acolytes could make off with his body.

To me the most vexing thing in the issue is that the X-Men did not immediately put more of a smack down on Bishop after he shot Charles! I mean, I know Scott just pummeled the guy with his eye-beam, but WTF. You'd think that getting that guy under control would've been more of a priority than having a little speech and inexplicably disbanding the team at the moment when it seems most crucial that the X-Men exist.

based on X-Factor and this thread, Messiah Complex seems pretty seriously awful.

Wait, Garrett - You only read the X-Factor issues of Messiah Complex?

eh, they were in my folder. and I didn't care enough to buy the other issues.