Dr. Strange - classic or dud

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I saw someone in a Dr. Strange T-shirt today.

And I thought, is Dr Strange any good? I always liked the idea of that kind of mystical stuff, but any issues I ever bought were full of idiotic jargon ("Looks like I'll have to perform the Rite of Thandrillon using the Sword of Pnar") and were unsuited to the casual reader.

What do you think of the sorceror supreme?

DV (dirtyvicar), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 12:33 (twenty years ago)

Supposedly the Ditko issues are good.

In fact I'm pretty sure the Ditko issues are good. People who know what a good comic is say that they are. But I haven't read them. I think quite quickly though he became nearly impossible to write: magic characters often are, because.

i) essentially, Marvel comics are about fites.

ii) fites are exciting because you have some idea about what at least one of the protagonists is capable of.

iii) fites get rubbish if the writers are able to invent new powers on a whim.

iv) magic without a 'magic system' is entirely about inventing new powers on a whim.

v) Dr Strange in no way has a 'magic system'

vi) --> he and his enemies BOTH can do pretty much anything the writer needs them to do

vii) --> rubbish fites

viii) --> duff comics.

Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 14:24 (twenty years ago)

OTM. I'm not a big fan of magic in the DC/Marvel universes, although I give a pass to mystically-based books like Lucifer I guess (which is really coming from a different angle than D&D-style wizardry and has its own system of checks & balances).

That said, Doc Strange was pretty damn funny in Ennis's Thor: Zombie-Vikings!!! miniseries (okay, it was actually just called Thor: Vikings, but that's what the title should've been).

Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 14:35 (twenty years ago)

Wrong. Ditko Dr. Strange is classic. (and even the Tuska/Severin stuff that follows is pretty good.) It's not a story. It's art, maaaan.

Most modern incarnations of the good Doctor have indeed been dodgy, however.

Matt Maxwell (Matt M.), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 14:37 (twenty years ago)

Oh, I also didn't mind Strange in 1602, I think he worked well in the pre-scientific setting where everything was basically portrayed as magic.

Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 14:38 (twenty years ago)

I like him best as a perpetual guest star, giving a bit of hipster mystique to superhero plodders. This was how he tended to be used when I started on comics.

Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 14:41 (twenty years ago)

It was always a hard comic to read for all the reasons listed above, but when a comic looks as good as the Ditko stuff, what does it matter? Some of the most visually appealling comics I've ever seen, even in the black and white "essential" reprint.

Not That Chuck, Tuesday, 7 September 2004 19:53 (twenty years ago)

That Chuck there is right - they are glorious to look at. On the other hand, Tom's right - a lot of the stories are toss. And most of the time since Ditko, the stories have still been toss and so has the art. I still like the character, but he is horribly hard to read. I quite liked the Englehart sequence in the '70s, but I suspect it would be hard to read now. Very earnest and meaningful.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 20:03 (twenty years ago)

"By the Hoary Hordes of Hoggoth!!'

I always liked him as a guest-star too, hinting at his unimaginable power and the awareness that he must have seen and experienced things that would make most Marvel Heroes poo their pants.

The little pieces of his continuity that woud occasionally dribble out in Defenders or guest-spots in Spidey or Hulk always intrigued me, too. Never enough to actually buy an issue of Dr Strange, though, obviously.

Remember in the bad old Image days when he went all "dark" and had a stupid Dr Fate style hood for a while?

Still, something about him is just damn cool. He's called Doctor Strange, for gods sake...

David N (David N.), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 00:52 (twenty years ago)

Classic when handled well (i.e. the Ditko era, some guest appearances and Defenders stuff, and some of the stuff in the 80s was at least better than what came after), but hardly ever handled well. I don't think a lack of explicit rules is as harmful to Dr Strange stories as it was to Superman stories -- I think the lack of a unifying "theme" to Strange's powers did make it difficult for writers to maintain any kind of consistency, constantly having him do the same thing in arbitrarily different ways[1] -- but a Strange story faces a lot of the same challenges as a Silver Surfer story. The standard superhero stuff -- even tropes like "the patrol" and "protecting the secret identity" -- doesn't work for him except on rare occasions, so you have to take him out of the ordinary Marvel universe and constantly create and maintain his own setting. A really good Dr Strange series should have as strong a sense of place as a really good Batman series does, and the worst of the runs often forgot that.

[1] The New Universe's Justice sometimes seemed like a crazy remix of Dr Strange to me. Instead of a surgeon who's lost the use of his hands and turns to irrationalism, he's basically a cop who's lost the ability and desire to serve and protect and abandons the system (which defines cophood as much as rationality defines doctorhood) altogether; instead of having a thousand different ways of attacking and defending himself with those crazy Ditko visuals, he has magic fire coming from one hand and a magic shield coming from the other. Just the basics.

Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 01:08 (twenty years ago)

Whoa whoa whoa David N! I dare say that "stupid Dr. Fate" era you refer to (AKA the David Quinn era) was possible the last time Dr. Strange was a compelling & interesting protagonist. The fact that (if I remember correctly) Quinn went through some trouble to limit Strange's all-knowing & all-seeing powers (& geegaws!) probably had a lot to do with it.

The Jackson Guice issues (from his last regular series) looked pretty good, though.

Who wants to talk about _Secret Defenders_!?!?!

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 03:18 (twenty years ago)

I feel I ought to clarify and say that I don't think the Ditko issues were rubbish - I'm sure they're great.

Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 09:29 (twenty years ago)

one year passes...
WILL REPORT BACK SOON.

s1ocki (slutsky), Saturday, 3 June 2006 13:54 (nineteen years ago)

The only silver age comic with the Doc in I've read is an issue of FF in which things are getting a bit hairy for our heroes in Namor's kingdom - so Dr. Strange magically teleports them out of there! If his powers regularly allow for such deus ex machina nonsense I'm not a fan.

chap who would dare to be a nerd, not a geek (chap), Saturday, 3 June 2006 14:16 (nineteen years ago)

I think the deus ex mustache is kinda why Joe Q. doesn't like the dude either.

barefoot manthing (Garrett Martin), Saturday, 3 June 2006 14:43 (nineteen years ago)

Oh and s1ocki, stick with the Essential. it's kinda hairy for the first few issues, but it quickly gets to be amazingly awesome. the year-long story that introduces Eternity is probably the closest thing Ditko has to a masterpiece.

barefoot manthing (Garrett Martin), Saturday, 3 June 2006 14:45 (nineteen years ago)

i'm about... five issues in? pretty good so far but i'm glad to hear it gets better.

s1ocki (slutsky), Saturday, 3 June 2006 14:47 (nineteen years ago)

Slocki, you read Dead Girl, right? So good.

Jordan (Jordan), Saturday, 3 June 2006 16:54 (nineteen years ago)

no! what it is?

s1ocki (slutsky), Saturday, 3 June 2006 17:07 (nineteen years ago)

Dead Girl = Dr. Strange/Dead Girl team-up by Peter Milligan and Mike Allred. It's ace. Just finished up, look for the cheapish trade.

Matt Maxwell (Matt M.), Saturday, 3 June 2006 17:56 (nineteen years ago)

Nutty but somehow admirable attempt to retro-engineer Dr. Strange's "magic system," despite the fact that everyone knows perfectly well it's not there: http://www.luckymojo.com/vishanti.html

Douglas (Douglas), Saturday, 3 June 2006 17:57 (nineteen years ago)

You probably should read X-Force/X-Statix before getting into Dead Girl, though.

c(''c) (Leee), Saturday, 3 June 2006 18:11 (nineteen years ago)

Because of all the CONTINUITY, MAN!

c(''c) (Leee), Saturday, 3 June 2006 18:11 (nineteen years ago)

It's enjoyable anyway, though...I only read the last few issues of X-Statix (I know, I know) and I was into it.

Jordan (Jordan), Saturday, 3 June 2006 18:33 (nineteen years ago)

(even though I obv. missed some of the references to the X-Statix dudes' pasts)

Jordan (Jordan), Saturday, 3 June 2006 18:33 (nineteen years ago)

pretty enjoyable so far (about 7-10 issues in), although does every story follow the formula of:

- dr strange, meditating or having a psychic work-out, notices something weird
- flies over in spirit form to check it out
- fights something (or mordo) with spells or amulet
- goes home

s1ocki (slutsky), Sunday, 4 June 2006 19:34 (nineteen years ago)

Subtract step 2 and you're about there. occasionally it's "Meddlers intrude on occult, Dr Strange saves their hides" but mostly that's how it goes until Doc gets into the serious epic confrontations which last for months at a time.

Vic F (Vic Fluro), Sunday, 4 June 2006 21:36 (nineteen years ago)

cliggity classic; the early ditkos are like Marvels pretending to be ECs with a heavy dollop of hep cat attitude.

Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Sunday, 4 June 2006 22:13 (nineteen years ago)

Is there a cheap color version of the ditko run?

asdf, Monday, 5 June 2006 21:11 (nineteen years ago)

You can get parts of it if you scout out the 80s-era reprints, but they're tough to find. Check your quarter bins (and no, I can't remember the title they were reprinted under.)

Matt Maxwell (Matt M.), Monday, 5 June 2006 22:05 (nineteen years ago)

the Ditko Dr. Strange (and possibly those afterwards) was very popular with all the hippies that liked to ingest mucho DERRR-UGGGGZZZZ and trip the fukk out to his far out images. they liked Silver Surfer for similar reasons.

and some of those hippies thought Ditko was down with hippie ethos. But then they saw that he NO LIKEY those damn dirty hippies (as per how Dove was portrayed as a pussy, and how they were portrayed in his other late '60s stuff). and then there was all the Ayn Rand stuff in the Question and Mr. A.

veronica moser (veronica moser), Monday, 5 June 2006 22:13 (nineteen years ago)

There's an old marvel TPB collection from the seventies that you can unearth at used book stores occasionally.

Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Monday, 5 June 2006 22:51 (nineteen years ago)

the ditko dr strange comics are nothing like EC

Ward Fowler (Ward Fowler), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 06:15 (nineteen years ago)

Not even THE HOUSE THAT WAS ALIVE!!?!!?

Vic F (Vic Fluro), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 06:45 (nineteen years ago)

after a bunch of pretty good, but not really mindblowing issues, i'm into the eternity stuff (or stuff that's foreshadowing it--the longest arc so far, involving a dormammu-sponsored mordo going after strange), and it's great... the quality of the writing and the art seems to have shot right up.

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 21:33 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, that's the good stuff, that is.

The Englehart issues in the ESSENTIALS v. 2 are pretty good, too. Even though it starts out as hamhanded Marvel comics tries to do Dr. Strange vs. Cthulhu (totally missing the point in the process.)

Matt Maxwell (Matt M.), Thursday, 8 June 2006 02:08 (nineteen years ago)

"pretending to be EC"

Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Thursday, 8 June 2006 02:57 (nineteen years ago)

Post-EC Marvel pretending to be EC = Man-Thing!

David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 8 June 2006 03:23 (nineteen years ago)

dr strange & mordo go into the sun = RADDDDDDDDD.

s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 8 June 2006 14:56 (nineteen years ago)

Toldja.

Matt Maxwell (Matt M.), Thursday, 8 June 2006 15:19 (nineteen years ago)

one year passes...

Doctor Strange, a "Marvel animated feature", popped into my netflx recommendation thing today:

Marvel Comics superhero and sorcerer supreme Dr. Stephen Strange protects the world from supernatural threats in this fast-paced animated actioner. Seeking to heal from a tragic past, Dr. Strange makes a life-altering journey to Tibet, where he meets and learns from the enigmatic Ancient One. As he begins to recover, he gains mystical powers and soon embarks on his mission of protecting humanity and saving the planet from destruction.

?

Jordan, Monday, 20 August 2007 21:01 (eighteen years ago)

I remember some of the 80s Dr. Strange being pretty good maybe with Roger Stern writing the book. I think Mike Mignola got his start at Marvel on Dr. Strange and Cloak & Dagger.

earlnash, Monday, 20 August 2007 22:20 (eighteen years ago)

I saw this dvd at the great satan (W*l M*rt) today...

Rock Hardy, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 00:37 (eighteen years ago)

I'm surprised the Peter B Gillis Strange wasn't mentioned, as that was probably the best the character was in the eighties - in fact there's a definite argument that the holy trinity of Dr Strange is Ditko, Englehart and Peter B Gillis. (Roger Stern turned in an excellent job as well.)

Vic Fluro, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 00:58 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah, I'd say the Stern/Dan Green run may be my favorite.

Rock Hardy, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 19:43 (eighteen years ago)


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