Watchmen: Classic Or Dud?

Watchmen itself: total genius. This is the way to tell stories and portray characters.

1) The marketability of new superhero settings that, while making no attempt to distance themselves from the DC and Marvel standards, are not tied to them (nor necessarily published by them). Everyone and their colorist tried this before Watchmen, with no real big successes; everyone and their colorist continues to do so, but books like Supreme, Powers, Top Ten, Astro City, etc., did just as well as their cousins in the Big Two.

2) The breakdown of the hero/villain dichotomy. After the influence of the pulps faded, nearly every superhero comic gave its protagonist the benefit of the doubt: people were superheroes because they were Good and Right and Just, and the only time they made the wrong decision, it was because their judgment was clouded by drugs or a lack of information ("when titans clash"). Given an accurate account of a situation, every superhero would always pick the correct thing to do, simply by virtue of putting aside the greed or megalomania that defined supervillains. Spider-Man might be an exception in some ways, but for the most part his angst came from doubt, not from actually making the wrong choices.

Watchmen unquestionably changed that, and it's a simple enough change that a dozen mainstream comics come out every month demonstrating it, without ever reminding you of Watchmen while you read it (and most of the writers probably don't have Watchmen in mind while they're writing it, any more than the artists have the Yellow Kid in mind when they're drawing it; the influence may be profound, but it isn't noisy).

In general I credit or blame influence according to the stories it results in vs the stories it prevents. The problem with Miller's Dark Knight Returns, for instance, is that it cast such a shadow over the Batman comics for such a long time that the principal effect of its influence was to prevent the publication of non-Elseworlds Batman stories that weren't consistent with it; Watchmen hasn't really prevented anything. It's added but it hasn't subtracted. If it adds bad along with good, it still isn't taking away any comics we could read if it didn't exist. It's like a guest who went shopping, and while he might have bought some crappy Pop-Tarts in addition to the orange juice you asked for, he didn't eat any of your food, so you still come out on top.

Also - is Watchmen an attempt to prevent 'superhero comics'? ;)

It's both Authorities, in fairness - the concept is "high concept" ie comics versions of Independence Day etc.

Quite simply, you are what you make of yourself. Occupational advice here is pointless. Have fun!

YOU ARE DR. MANHATTAN

Detached, perhaps, "intellectual," and weirdly interested in the tiniest details, you should consider working with things, not people. Law enforcement could only use you as a parking meter. If you're academically inclined, seriously consider selling your college research papers online; you'll make a fortune. If you're not an "academic," open a TV/VCR repair service or be a webmaster.

If you're a philosophical sort, you'd make a great zen master.

You're just swell.

er, swell

That's fucked up because I said I was tall. I think I got it because I'm a misanthrope.

i scored nite owl II on the quiz thing.

http://filmonic.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/comedian.jpg
http://www.komics411.com/files/marvel-x-force-7%5B1%5D_2.jpg

Cable's a total aesthetic rip off The Comedian, right? It's only just struck me.

yeah, it was pretty blatant

Watchmen okay. Needs Herbie analog. Bop Vietcong with lollipop.

Cable's a total aesthetic rip off The Comedian, right? It's only just struck me.

I suppose Marshal Law is too.

whoah ok so i never actually made the comedian+cable connection (but then i tended to avoid liefield comics)

Marshall Law was published almost concurrent with Watchmen, so more likely drawing on the same source material rather than an influence (though Mills/Moore/O'Neill/Gibbons all ran in the same circles).

judge dredd a clear precursor to marshall law, perhaps also to watchmen

2000AD a precursor to most everything I suppose.

Marshal Law could totally beat up The Comedian.

And Cable.

2000AD being a secondary sort of Ur-text for modern comics (alongside 80s Marvel) is an interesting subject for discussion. But let's be clear. Judge Dredd could whup everyone.

Well, maybe not Marshal Law...

Dredd would beat Marshal Law, though it would be a tough fight and he'd get his uniform all torn up and stuff.

Oops.

okay no

hahahahahahaaaa

yyyyyykes!

THE ILC WANTS TO KNOW(!):

WILL PIRATE BATMAN HANG OUT ON THE BLACK FREIGHTER???????????

Should only be allowed if they make a Lego Watchmen II video game.

And you have to play it whilst on a dance mat and using a Guitar Hero controller simultaneously.

hopefully sequel will just be Dr. Manhattan coming back to earth and wiping out humanity

very short one shot. i could see alan moore doing that one.

First-refusal rights = potentially awesome. I wonder if DC would sue Moore like Geffen sued Neil Young if he produced something they didn't like?

anyone who actually scabs (not the right word but the best i could come up with) to write/draw these things deserves to have their hands fall off in the night.

I was thinking of making a poll but all I can suggest the moment are WATCHMANGA and a Tijuana Bible called CAPTAIN METROPOLIS/HOODED JUSTICE TEAM-UP!.

Any ideas for how to hack it up and hypothetically milk this long ripening cash cow via spin-offs, sequels, whatever? (yes, mixing metaphors, don't care)

Tom Spurgeon has some: http://www.comicsreporter.com/index.php/ddd/

http://i.imgur.com/GA1Pu.jpg

loool

glad you did not post that on a weekday

Why is his frenulum censored?

to make it safe for work!

Well don't I feel silly!

So apparently there was something about this that came out of Heroes Con yesterday. I don't know what.

Frankly, I hope they make a million sequels. WATCHMEN has made indelible marks on superhero books since then (most not worth reading, but there you have it.) It's only fair that the favor get returned.

Yeah, I still admire WATCHMEN as an artifact of a time, and in places it's still a good novel. But man, did superhero books screw themselves up trying to chase that frisson.