So This Is Romance

Spandex-wise: I do like the relationship between Tom Strong and Dhalua.

There's a great story that appeared in one of those Batman-family anthologies a few years ago where Batman and a very young (Dick Grayson) Robin have nabbed Catwoman on a roof somewhere, Batman's got Catwoman pinned down, she's just looking at him like "yeah, now what're you gonna do?," and he says something like "ah, Robin, could you take a look downstairs and see if, you know, everything's okay down there?"

Yes that is quite nice - an accumulation of coincidences (I assume) which actually ends up suiting and illuminating the character.

(Though it wouldn't surprise me to hear that the bat-office had a dictum that Bruce Shalt Not Woo.)

The Kadmons in Midnight Mass. are really well depicted as a couple.

Superman/Batman, obviously.

The Kadmons, Jessica & Luke, Maggie & Hopey as already noted.

Does it really get any better than Buddy & Lisa though? Or more accurate, rather? During the drunk, wild years they end up together several times as WTF???!!? fucks. The Valerie thing happens, but both of them sort of aren't aware it has. People come and go, people move, and both realise they don't really like other people. Both realise they had fucked up childhoods. And so they fall together because they sort of get on. They're old enough, they still crave the wild sex of their youth, AND THEY DON'T HATE EACH OTHER. That's all there is to it, and it appears to be enough.

The more I think about it the more it seems to me that Preacher is the worst comic ever made.

I used to think this was awful, but let's face it, you just described a large chunk of real-life relationships, especially among the comic's demographic. I'm not sure the shorthand there is actually on the part of the comic book.

I didn't read the whole series, though, so don't know the details of it becoming significant to the plot.

Young Heroes In Love never had a chance to be very soap-operatic -- it was cancelled too quickly -- but seemed to be aiming for Soap levels of "it's kind of parody, but it's mostly just a formally perfect genre piece with ridiculous answers filled into the blanks."

Among the "they've been around forever" couples, my least favorite has always been Superman/Clark and Lois Lane. Favorite would I guess be Peter Parker and Mary Jane, but mostly in the earlier stages of their relationship. Although maybe Batman-Catwoman, since it never (well, rarely) has the chance to get to the boring parts.

Granted, Lois was always the least interesting part of the mythos for me -- and even when I was a kid, she was my least favorite Super-love-interest, so it wasn't just a kneejerk "girls ew! cooties!" kind of thing. I always wanted Superman to snub Lois and Lana and go for Lori Lemaris or Cleopatra.

Maybe it would be better now if there were that kind of crazy, misadventuring rivalry, or would that even fit with the modern, more realistic, let's talk about our relationship DC comics?

Regardless, that sponge was wrung out real quick-like once Cyke & Jean finally got together, though maybe it says more about my attitudes re: women that I liked Jean the best when she was A) omnipotent & eating planets and B) giving Scott the cold shoulder (& Wolvie the hot cross buns). (Also, C) making U-Men crap their pants.) Sidebar: I am totally digging the dysfunction grist being ground down between Emma Frost & Cyke - thank you again, Mr. Morrison!

Ultimate Spidey & Ultimate MJ are so adorably dorky/cute; I'd probably put them ahead of JJ & Cage in terms of spandex faves, just because I'm such a milksop. In the "real" MU, though, I was partial to Peter & Gwen. Nowadays, Peter & MJ seem to be at their best in JMS' hands, but, even then, I liked it better when they were estranged & on opposite sides of the US & Spidey thought MJ was making time w/ an actor in a lobster suit.

Lois & Clark seem to work best as a couple when they're both too busy to spend any time w/ each other. (For what it's worth, there's a QT moment between Lois & Supes in the latest issue of Superman, including a post-coital "WOW" - I'm paraphrasing - from Ms. Lane.)

Huk, do you know anything of a Batman / Wonder Woman tryst during Joe Kelly's run in JLA?

Also: MAGGIE & HOPEY! I've only seen them in their color special (Maggie & Hopey Color Fun), but it was (& they are) fantastic.

And yeah, I've never liked Scott/Jean as a couple either, now that you mention it, so in my head that automatically makes them the Superman/Lois equivalent. I do like Jean being in Scott's romantic backstory when it comes to his relationship with Emma -- in Endsong, too -- which is weird, because if you were to put Superman and Lois in a similar situation (Emma -> Killer Frost! hahahahaha I love me), I'd be all, "Clark, get over her! She's dead! She sucked! Have alien sex with your frosty love!"

... and relax.

cf what this sad geezer wrote abt it all long ago

Re, how they handle polyamory - yes, that's my point re Hopey being a bitch: she knows that Maggie has fairly conventional romantic aspirations (after listening to her drooling over rand) and also that Maggie prob doesn't identify as a "real" lesbian (like, all her other crushes and major relationships are with boys) but still expects her to be super-punk-o-rama, "accept my wacky life or do without me" all the time. Also the whole thing with Terry makes her a bitch whatever arrangement they have.

i guess i'm saying i don't much like the relationship either (in the sense of wanting to be in something similar), but i think it is v.well drawn and endlessly fascinating

does hopey have any positive qualities apt from cuteness? one at least: she is (or seems) (which = same thing prob) fearless

fuckbuddy: i wasn't v.clear here - M/H are lovers (or whatever word you/they prefer), it's M/T who are fuckbuddies (or rather, maybe M rationalises it this way) (tho TBH i don't think she "rationalises" much at all)

ha ha, I was just having flashbacks to ages ago when all my friends were saying "oh I hope they get back together" and i was all "No!!! hopey is bad for maggy!"

I pretty much agree - ie. i think it was v well written relationship (until later on, when jaime seemd to mythologise/idealise it a bit or something)

Moving on to romance and stuff, I always liked the way Gordon's relationship with his wife was portrayed in "Batman: Year One" and "Gordon Of Gothan" - fundamentally dysfunctional for all that they seemed to feel thenselves irrevocably bound to each other. The Quartermain-Harker relationship in "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" is also rather touching, even if Harker is very obviously a fantasy lady for male comics fans.

But now it's 2005, Peter and MJ tongue-kiss on-panel, and Luke Cage and Jessica Jones had silhouetted butt sex, so things are a bit more open.

That's a deeply unsettling image.

Also: Colossus/Kitty Pride, even if it's kind of creepy sometimes, Claremont (or was it Shooter?) should've never fucked with that relationship.

Fucked up relationships (maybe because I finished reading it yesterday): Holden/Miss Misery. It's great because it has some real ambiguity about why they are with each other and what they feel for each other. Holden knows M.M is a bitch and is always gonna be a cold hearted bastard, but he still wants to save her, he feels he can change her. And she kind of/sort of loves him even if it's covered by lots of hate and self loathing.