This is the thread where I ask questions about I Can't Believe It's Not the Justice League

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
So, I really liked the first issue of this. I also only caught about 2% of the references, since I didn't read Formerly Known as the JLA, I'm relatively young, and I was never a DC geek anyway.

Let's start with Guy Gardner. WTF. He was a Green Lantern, right? Why the SHOCKING REVEAL?

Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 25 February 2005 16:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Because he's a jerk and no one wants him around.

Huk-L, Friday, 25 February 2005 16:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Because he was one of the original goofy JLers, a grade A sexist buffoon anachronistic assclown (and, actually, wasn't he sort of like this before JL?), but then "redeemed" by folks trying to make him super-heroic and remove him from his niche (as a goofy grade A sexist buffoon anachronistic asshat), & is now free of all that crap and is BACK to funk (or disco) stuff up.

Or what Huk managed to say in just 10 words.

David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 25 February 2005 16:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, is that all.

Okay, who's the chick who's in fact not pregnant?

xpost

Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 25 February 2005 16:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Sue Dibny, the martyr of Identity Crisis.

Huk-L, Friday, 25 February 2005 16:16 (twenty-one years ago)

aka Elongated Man's missis

Mark C (Markco), Friday, 25 February 2005 16:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh right. So I guess it's not in "continuity" then.

My public cluelessness on this thread is my penance for only reading DCU books written by Grant Morrison.

Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 25 February 2005 16:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I think it's still in continuity, technically - this story just takes place before she died. Of course, the Giffen / DeMatteis JL books have always been sorta outside of continuity, just because of the way things are done (& characters are handled) in their books. It's a tone issue, really.

Also, a lot of the characters created during their run (Manga Khan / the tribe on & the island of Kooey Kooey Kooey) don't get used too often outside of their books, and it's probably for the better (given what directly followed the Giffen / DeMatteis run). G'nort is a notable exception, tho - he was used during Winick's GL, right?

David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 25 February 2005 16:28 (twenty-one years ago)

and, actually, wasn't he sort of like this before JL?

Okay, short history of (pre-Emerald Dawn II and whatever else happened in the 90s that I mercifully missed out on) Guy Gardner.

In Green Lantern (second series) #59 (reprinted in #184), Hal Jordan, Green Lantern of Space Sector 2814 is hanging out on Oa, homeworld of his pimps, the Guardians of the Universe. Using a freaky moving image speculation machine, he watches an alternate history play out where, instead of him, his predecessor Abin Sur of the alien world Ungara selected a Mr. Guy Gardner (an obvious homage to Golden & Silver Age doyen, Gardner Fox) as Earth's Green Lantern. This red-head gym teacher performs his role well, and then, one day, while returning from Oa by a route Hal Jordan never took, Guy stumbled upon a world where kids and adults were at war. He stopped the war, saved the planet, and was on his jolly way. Once he got back to Earth, however, he realized that he had contracted a deadly Yellow Fever on this alien world and died, choosing Hal Jordan as his successor, proving that Hal Jordan was fated to be GL.

Though John Stewart was the official back-up GL, he was unavailable in the late 70s when GL was having strange problems with his ring. Finally, Guy Gardner gets his chance to shine. With one of Jordan's innumerable spare rings and Jordan's own power battery (which charges the ring every 24 hours), Guy teams up with Green Arrow and eats chili in between FITES with Dr. Ojo and the Crumbler.
Unbeknownst to any of the players in this tragedy, the problem Hal Jordan was worried about wasn't with his ring, but with his power battery, which had been corrupted by exposed to the Crumbler's crumbling glove.
While charging his ring at Oliver (Green Arrow) Queen's apt., Guy Gardner is seemingly disintegrated when the battery explodes. Hal Jordan returns too late to save him, and goes to break the bad news to Gardner's psychic girlfriend, Kari Limbo.
Hal Jordan, having never met a piece of tail he couldn't pwn, gets jiggy with Limbo, and they decide to get married.
Featuring the cast of dozens (and the final issue of the Green Lantern/Green Arrow team-up), Green Lantern/Green Arrow #122, is to be the wedding issue--but:

http://www.comics.org/graphics/covers/2327/200/2327_2_122.jpg !

It turns out Guy wasn't killed after all, just sent to the Phantom Zone, where he could only watch as Hal Jordan moved in on his girl. Goaded on by fellow PZers like General Zod, Guy finally lashes out. Hal Jordan and Superman enter the P'Zone and rescue Guy, but in the process he is injured and is comatose.

He spends the next few years in a coma, until, during the Crisis on Infinite Earths, the Guardians need a GL to run a suicide mission to Qward, in the Anti-Matter universe. "Hey, what about that comatose guy?"
So they use their magicks (as it was called back then) to revive, but, surprise, surprise, Guy's a wee bit brain-damaged and a whole lot bitter. Nonetheless, Guy leads a crew of space-villains and Hal Jordan (who had since retired from the Corps for another woman, but was trying to get his job back) to Qward.
The rest of the Corps stopped the mission, which would have accidentally destroyed the positive matter universe as a side-effect (fucking Guardians never think anything through).
The Guardians decide they've lost their cool, and go off into a parallel dimension to make whoopee with the Zamaronian space-babes who are way too hot for them.
Guy gets sent to Maltus, the Guardians' original homeworld, to get schooled by a former Guardian, but he busts out, goes to Earth and demands to recognized as the greatest GL ever.
He's brash and stuff and a hot-headed jerk, and nearly starts WWIII after fellow GL Kilowog defects to the Soviet Union to help with the Rocket Red program.

It's not until he joins the Justice League after the LEGENDS cross-over whizz-bang, that he starts being a really interesting character though. Giffen and DeMatteis really ride him for all he's worth, and then, after a confrontation with team leader Batman (the famous ONE PUNCE incident), Guy suffers another series of bumps to the noggin and becomes a sweet and docile thing.

Needless to say, he eventually gets bumped again.

Huk-L, Friday, 25 February 2005 16:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Holy crap.

David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 25 February 2005 16:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I disgust me.

Huk-L, Friday, 25 February 2005 16:50 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm just glad I'm not the only one!

David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 25 February 2005 16:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I knew you'd be my man on this, Huk.

Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 25 February 2005 16:57 (twenty-one years ago)

That was 100000x better than this summary.

Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 25 February 2005 16:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I bought this by accident, in that I told my comic shop to but Grant's JLA on my standing order, and I got this in the batch without realising that it wasn't by Grant. I absolutely hated it and will have stern words with the people in Gosh! next time I go in.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 25 February 2005 20:31 (twenty-one years ago)

You break my heart, Martin.

Huk-L, Friday, 25 February 2005 20:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, Martin just needs to go back and read the 80-odd core issues of pre-Breakdowns JL/JLI/JLA/JLE/JLAntarctica so he can properly appreciate it! G'wan.

kit brash (kit brash), Saturday, 26 February 2005 00:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I read a good few of those - a lot of people thought they were good, and I liked Maguire's faces, and they were easily found in 20p boxes. I thought they were all dreadful too, mostly because of the painfully unfunny attempts at humour. That was the torture about reading this new one too.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 26 February 2005 19:34 (twenty-one years ago)

OBVIOUSLY you need to read ALL OF THEM and then your incomprehensible resistance to the stilted panel transitions and forced in-jokes will DISSOLVE LIKE EARLY-MORNING DEW

kit brash (kit brash), Saturday, 26 February 2005 23:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I liked it, but I was a HUGE fan of the Giffen/DeMatteis run as a kid. To me, it's sitcom Justice League or no Justice League.

The big reveal at the end was there because Guy Gardner was the lynchpin of the old series. He was the Archie Bunker/Al Bundy of the team.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Sunday, 27 February 2005 17:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I think that the humor in Giffen/DeMatteis Justice League is very dated, even the new stuff! Their humor seems very rooted in the late 80s. The jokes in the new issue and the other recent limited series all seemed as though they may as well have been written in 1989. But I don't know, it's not straying far from the original appeal. It's like Night Court with superheroes.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Sunday, 27 February 2005 17:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Huk, can you write an encyclopedia of actual events in the style of your comic character precis? precises? preces? preciss? preciouseses? summaries? Because that would be awesome, to read about Louis XIV or, say, Poland in that style.

Casuistry (Chris P), Monday, 28 February 2005 08:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Okay. I'll apply for a grant (S@sk @rt$ B0@rd grant application season is here!).

Huk-L, Monday, 28 February 2005 14:42 (twenty-one years ago)

one month passes...
Oh, the bittersweet irony and Power Girl boobiness:

http://buzzscope.com/previewer.php?id=4078&p=2

Huk-L, Wednesday, 13 April 2005 16:38 (twenty years ago)

You know, Kevin Maguire is a pretty amazing comics artist. It's really too bad he doesn't get more quality gigs. I imagine that he'd be a great person to team up with Peter Milligan. Can't they get him on X-Men and put Sal Larocca on another series?

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 18:01 (twenty years ago)

Maguire, from what I heard, is VERY VERY VERY slow and/or difficult to work with and/or unfit for human consumption and/or allergic to ink. Also, he's working on a Defenders mini w/ his JL posse. Also, I don't see him as an X-Men family artist, regardless of writer - not even X-Statix, really. FF, on the other hand...

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 18:13 (twenty years ago)

I was thinking X-Men cos he has a lot of the same qualities as Frank Quitely and John Cassaday. That, and I read the X-Men.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 18:16 (twenty years ago)

There's a bit of Paul Smith in him too.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 18:17 (twenty years ago)

And right there, those are the three best artists to ever draw the X-Men.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 18:17 (twenty years ago)

I met KM once and he was a bit of a dork, drooling over the hubba-hubba-ness of his own drawings, which was kind of icky.

But, y'know, he is a comics artist, so I guess he's allowed.

Chuck Tatum (Chuck Tatum), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 18:20 (twenty years ago)

He drew a Defenders reunion in a PAD Hulk annual a couple years back -- he seems really good on the Marvel stuff. I think Giffen's hyper-small panels are killing him on the JLC run.

Chuck Tatum (Chuck Tatum), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 18:22 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, true (re: Maguire & Quitely / Cassaday) - they both know when to "stop a scene" for maximum impact. However, Quitely & Cassaday (especially Cassaday) have a knack for doing that best in a dramatic context (love their FITE scense); Maguire's gift seems to be more in line w/ freeze-frames a la Alexander Payne's oh-so-flattering introduction of Reese Witherspoon in Election. You know, for chuckles between characters - I'm not sure there's much room for that type of aw-shucks camraderie in the X-verse. Even when there are chuckles, they're more pointed. Give him The Thing & Human Torch (& Stretch!), tho, or a gaggle of non-mutant misfits (like The Defenders), & it's GOLD.

I'm thinking a Slott / Maguire collaboration could be a thing of beauty.

[xpost]

OK, Matthew - for forgetting THEE X-ARTIST TEAM, it's on.

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 18:23 (twenty years ago)

Rank The X-Artists!

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 18:25 (twenty years ago)

I found, reading the Formerly Known mini, that Maguire's style felt really 80s in a Julian Schnabel sort of way.

Huk-L, Wednesday, 13 April 2005 18:34 (twenty years ago)

Huk, please expound (esp. as from what little I know about Schnabel's work, your comparison makes absolutely no sense).

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 19:07 (twenty years ago)

It appears that what I've always thought was Schnabel is not Schnabel at all. Fuck. I don't even know how to begin looking for what I was thinking of. I was way, way off. I'll find it though, I have an hour left at work and no tasks left.

Huk-L, Wednesday, 13 April 2005 19:23 (twenty years ago)

They were everywhere in the 80s, these maybe air-brushed paintings of women who sorta looked like the women in the "Addicted To Love" video.

Huk-L, Wednesday, 13 April 2005 19:33 (twenty years ago)

I think you mean Patrick Nagel, maybe? The guy wot drawed those bold-lined stylized portraits of women you found in hair salons? Like the cover to Duran Duran's Rio? (or whatever DD album that is?)

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 19:35 (twenty years ago)

Nagel, Schnabel, what's the big difference?

Huk-L, Wednesday, 13 April 2005 19:36 (twenty years ago)

(Gawd, do i feel like a douchebag)

Huk-L, Wednesday, 13 April 2005 19:50 (twenty years ago)

(Been there many times, Huk'l. No shame in that.)

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 21:02 (twenty years ago)

to be fair julian schnabel did dress like guy gardner

j blount (papa la bas), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 21:07 (twenty years ago)

My main problem with the art in FKATJL was that the faces seemed too similar. Obviously most notable with Mary and Sue.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 21:17 (twenty years ago)

I find with Maguire that the exaggerated facial expression smake everyone look like they are terribly overacting.

Mark C (Markco), Thursday, 14 April 2005 07:16 (twenty years ago)

so does the dialogue!

though I guess Adam Hughes on JLA did help to downplay that so yr point is valid

he seems really good on the Marvel stuff. I think Giffen's hyper-small panels are killing him on the JLC run.

his Image? Malibu? Anonymousstartupverse? series in the '90s went for big panels and action scenes, and did not succeed very well (compared to his over-laboured small panels of faces)

kit brash (kit brash), Thursday, 14 April 2005 09:43 (twenty years ago)

Superheroes as hams? Perish the thought!

Huk-L, Thursday, 14 April 2005 14:01 (twenty years ago)

http://www.annen.ch/danny/art/nagel/nagel-b1.jpg

Chuck Tatum (Chuck Tatum), Thursday, 14 April 2005 16:18 (twenty years ago)

http://www.thefourthrail.com/images/reviews/080403/formerlyknownasthejusticeleague2.jpg

Huk-L, Thursday, 14 April 2005 16:37 (twenty years ago)

ihttp://www.comics.org/graphics/covers/3366/400/3366_4_08.jpg

Huk-L, Thursday, 14 April 2005 16:54 (twenty years ago)

What about the Amazing Spiderham?

Pete (Pete), Friday, 15 April 2005 08:28 (twenty years ago)

aka Peter Porker...

Andrew Ell, Friday, 15 April 2005 13:48 (twenty years ago)

http://daredevil.dreamhost.com/covers/parodies/deerdevils.jpg

Chuck Tatum (Chuck Tatum), Friday, 15 April 2005 14:03 (twenty years ago)

Deerdevil???

Huk-L, Friday, 15 April 2005 14:04 (twenty years ago)

I'm afraid so.

Chuck Tatum (Chuck Tatum), Friday, 15 April 2005 14:20 (twenty years ago)

Wasn't there a Green Lambtern?

Huk-L, Friday, 15 April 2005 14:28 (twenty years ago)

Eart C - Captain Carrots Zoo Crew I think had Green Lambtern.

Pete (Pete), Friday, 15 April 2005 15:14 (twenty years ago)

I think Earth C was the Charlton universe, but yeah, obviously Green Lambkin (I did a search) was from the Zoo Crew.

Huk-L, Friday, 15 April 2005 15:23 (twenty years ago)

http://www.glcorps.org/g_lambkn.gif

Huk-L, Friday, 15 April 2005 15:49 (twenty years ago)

http://www.glcorps.org/g_lambkn.gif

Huk-L, Friday, 15 April 2005 16:36 (twenty years ago)

Sounds like Marvel want a bit of the ICBINTJL "magic". Defenders Solicitation August:

DEFENDERS #1

Written by Keith Giffen and J.M. DeMatteis, pencils and cover by Kevin Maguire.

Wong possessed by Nightmare! Dormammu and Umar in unholy alliance! The Hulk and the Sub-Mariner at each other's throats! The Silver Surfer...uh...surfing. Can Doctor Strange reunite the Defenders and save "Reality As We Know It?" Come to think of it, can editor Andy Schmidt save the Marvel Universe from creators Keith Giffen, J.M. DeMatteis and Kevin Maguire? Only the Ancient One knows for sure!

32 pages, $2.99, in stores on July 20.

Pete (Pete), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 11:42 (twenty years ago)

I swear Marvel does this every month - they promote a "new series" as an "unlimited" series, & then switch it to "limited" after #2 or 3, to trick retailers to buy more copies. From what I heard, this was a 4-issue thing.

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 13:30 (twenty years ago)

Why would you want something like that to be ongoing anyway?

Huk-L, Wednesday, 20 April 2005 13:54 (twenty years ago)

Huk 1, Daver 0

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 13:55 (twenty years ago)

Dude, I'm not playing! Dan gets 5 minutes for Highsticking, & a game misconduct for Not Enough Dick Jokes.

Yeah, an ongoing like that wouldn't be a good idea (well, it COULD,, but I doubt it), but what I was saying was - if this is going to be a 4-issue mini, SAY SO! Don't dick around retailers (& fans) w/ thoughts of a regular series when that's not what the deal is.

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 14:37 (twenty years ago)

Maybe they're just a little gunshy after prematurely cancelling She-Hulk, and given that the firm of Gif, DeM & Mag have scant stock players left at the Distinguished Competition, they're trying to keep their options open.

Huk-L, Wednesday, 20 April 2005 14:47 (twenty years ago)

two months pass...
Decent G&D interview here.

Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Thursday, 30 June 2005 18:56 (twenty years ago)

It brings a tear to my wee Irish eye.

Huk-L (Huk-L), Thursday, 30 June 2005 19:12 (twenty years ago)

It is indeed very sad. Strangely enough, btw, somebody just posted a "bwa-ha-ha" on my ex-boss's blog. The shadow of the bwa looms long.

Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Thursday, 30 June 2005 19:22 (twenty years ago)

I need to find myself a complete run of JL/I/A 1-60 on EBay or something.

Huk-L (Huk-L), Thursday, 30 June 2005 19:34 (twenty years ago)

or BitTorrent...WHAT HAPPENED, LEEEEE?

Huk-L (Huk-L), Thursday, 30 June 2005 19:34 (twenty years ago)

I still have all mine... back in the UK
*snicker*

Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Thursday, 30 June 2005 20:02 (twenty years ago)

So, I BT'd the entire JL/JLI/JLI/JLE/JLI/JLQ/EJ/JLTF, and I've been reading the "Breakdowns" "saga" and there's this weird scene where Flash, Beetle and Elongated Man are exploring the League's Happy Harbor HQ, which they'd subletted to the Doom Patrol, and they're all like "WTF happened here?"
It's pretty fun.
There's also (i think it was in JLA #50, things are all bleeding together) a fucking brilliant Kyle Baker cartoon where Guy Gardner sits in on a DC editorial meeting.

Huk-L (Huk-L), Thursday, 14 July 2005 19:20 (twenty years ago)

story meeting - the three of them (Giffen/DeMatteis/Helfer) used to actually plot the series that way, supposedly.

that Doom Patrol thing was terrible! missed the point and the tone of Morrison's series altogether, and on top of that lamed out with a "HA HA HE IS ON THE DRUQKS" write-off of the work.

kit brash (kit brash), Thursday, 14 July 2005 23:55 (twenty years ago)

You know, once upon a time I was a total Doom Patrol fanboy collector thanks to my reading of the Morrison series, and I bought everything I could get my hands on that had the characters in it, even the obscure cameo stuff like that JLE "Breakdowns" issue that had the Chief in it. So I bought that one. Sorry, Huk, but I thought it really was complete shit! I agree with kit on this one, totally.

Chris F. (servoret), Friday, 15 July 2005 04:10 (twenty years ago)


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.