Doctor Doom!

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He's a great villian, probably Marvel's best. What are his best stories? I really enjoyed the story in Fantastic Four 246-7, when he regains his throne, and all the people of Latrivia love him.

Talk about Doctor Doom.

jel -- (jel), Sunday, 13 March 2005 13:03 (twenty years ago)

Wally Wood Doom is best. It was only five halves of an issue of some backwater title, but it was lovely stuff featuring all kinds of wacky madness and bad guys who were exactly like Doom only more stupid.

Vic Fluro, Sunday, 13 March 2005 13:10 (twenty years ago)

I like him when he is portrayed as a complete mentalist but with the suggestion that the world might actually be better off if ruled by him.

I also liked the story where in an unlikely sequence of events Reed Richards was trapped in the armour of Dr Doom and started kind of turning into him.

DV (dirtyvicar), Sunday, 13 March 2005 13:19 (twenty years ago)

My first exposure to Dr Doom was the Secret Wars series and like a baby crocodile emerging from its egg that has been imprinted as the definitive one. It's another Jim Shooter omnipotence story but strangely enough while all other characters were cyphers Shooter seemed to understand the mind of a supremely arrogant tyrant.

DD's personality is pretty simple: he is very intelligent (by super-villain standards anyway) and extremely arrogant. He's also extremely European, despite his education - if you can read Doom as American then the writer's getting something wrong (or it's a DOOMBOT!). He's kind of an agglomeration of Old Europe stereotypes - feudal, tyrannous, romantic, slightly mystical, overbearingly haughty, one foot deep in the past, un-knowable. There is therefore something a little ridiculous about him, just as there is something ridiculous (but recognisable) about the twisted Ruritania that Latveria is always written as.

(The actual set-up for Latveria is basically: what if Lichtenstein was ruled by a super-villain? On the few occasions you see maps it's absolutely tiny and seems to be in the armpit of Switzerland somewhere.)

Tom (Groke), Sunday, 13 March 2005 13:20 (twenty years ago)

classic: the 'prisoner' issues of the kirby/lee FF, w/ latveria standing in for the village

in a 'new' avengers i read recently, bendis seemed to be writing doc d as some kind of international war crim - which, while not totally unlikely, did seem to be in slightly bad taste

Andrew L (Andrew L), Sunday, 13 March 2005 15:03 (twenty years ago)

ten months pass...
This thread died before its time. Hence, the bump, because DOOM COMMANDS IT!

David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 2 February 2006 06:55 (nineteen years ago)

When well-written, one of my favorite characters -- and I don't think it takes a genius to write him well, I think it's mostly a matter of not fucking it up. There's enough implied complexity to him without, by and large, being too explicated; and the use of Doombots and Kristoff actually works instead of stammering around Spider-Clone-ishly.

Tom and DV both OTM in every word -- the I-am-become-Doom story is why I say I like Claremont's run on FF, and I was just thinking last night (while reading Wikipedia's entry on Jim Shooter) that Doom really rose above the rest of the cast in Secret Wars, while Magneto -- Marvel's hero/villain du jour -- was bland and tiresome.

(Shooter transfers the whole "he's a bad guy he's a villain but the world would be better off under his wing" business to Korvac in his Avengers run, so I think there's a personality type involved here that appealed to him as much as omnipotence did.)

Tep (ktepi), Thursday, 2 February 2006 14:24 (nineteen years ago)

Also, the character design! The "oh I'm old school scope my billowing green cloak wait whoa metal underneath perhaps I'm a ROBOT?!" look shouldn't work, but it does, as evidenced by the fact that any time someone makes major changes to Doom's outfit, they seem much cheesier than the original.

We've vilified Byrne before, I think, for "revealing" that Doom's disfigurement was nothing but a minor facial scar, the real wound being to his vanity et cetera ad byrneum.

Tep (ktepi), Thursday, 2 February 2006 14:29 (nineteen years ago)

I thought the 'nothing but a minor facial scar' idea came from something Kirby once said in a interview (though I don't think the King ever intended to reveal this in an actual FF issue)?

Ward Fowler (Ward Fowler), Thursday, 2 February 2006 22:52 (nineteen years ago)

It may well have, and it'd be in character for Byrne to leap on that -- as far as I know he was the first one to put it in the comics, though (I'm not sure if anyone but Byrne has brought it up, come to think of it).

Tep (ktepi), Thursday, 2 February 2006 23:00 (nineteen years ago)

More Doomlove: is it just me or does he have the very best name of all of the Stan-Lee-ified alliterative Marvelites? The "Von" part required for the alliteration is great for that "collection of European stereotypes" Tom mentioned, and Victor just screams soap opera villain yet has a completely unvillainous meaning.

I mean, there's a ton foreshadowed about the character just in the name -- which would probably have been something like "Daniel Doom" if Stan hadn't made him European, or "Alexei Doom" if he hadn't had a thing for alliteration, and both of those are terrible.

Tep (ktepi), Thursday, 2 February 2006 23:05 (nineteen years ago)

We've vilified Byrne before, I think, for "revealing" that Doom's disfigurement was nothing but a minor facial scar, the real wound being to his vanity et cetera ad byrneum.

I wasn't aware of that! I have a very vivid memory of a Byrne panel in which Sue is looking at Doom's bare face with a 'Dear lord! He's hideous!' type thought balloon, but it may be false.

chap who would dare to no longer work for the man (chap), Friday, 3 February 2006 00:44 (nineteen years ago)

I'm totally unable to find the relevant discussion on ILC, which means either I'm a mentalist or it was on one of many thread derailments. However, a cached copy of the Wikipedia article suggests I'm wrong!:

Byrne tried to give arch-nemesis Doctor Doom a more consistent characterization. For example. Lee and Kirby disagreed about the extent to which Doom's unmasked face was disfigured. Lee thought Doom had horrible scars but Kirby felt it was only a minor scar. Byrne resolved these viewpoints by revealing that Doom originally had a small scar but put on an iron mask while red hot, causing horrific disfiguration. Also, Byrne felt that Doom's guest appearances in other books was mischaracterized (such as in Chris Claremont's X-Men) so robot doubles of Doom were revealed to have appeared in those instances instead.

(Other google hits make it sound like Byrne's solution wasn't just a matter of marrying Stan and Jack but explaining references to this "small scar" as well as instances of people seeing Doom unmasked and being horrified.)

I had no idea Byrne started the Doombots.

Tep (ktepi), Friday, 3 February 2006 01:03 (nineteen years ago)

T/S: Doombots Vs. Lord Julius' Like-a-Looks.

chap who would dare to no longer work for the man (chap), Friday, 3 February 2006 01:08 (nineteen years ago)

Superboy's robot duplicates predate Doom's and PWN ALL

kit brash (kit brash), Friday, 3 February 2006 03:43 (nineteen years ago)

nine months pass...
I vaguely remember reading an old issue of Thor, where Doom kidnaps Don Blake to perform plastic surgery on his face. When he removes his mask, I seem to recall we can only see the back of his head with bumps and tufts of hair, with Blake gasping and saying something like 'My God! I had no idea! Th-there's nothing I can do!' That was much more impressive than that Books of Doom ending...

And I also liked that story in Iron Man #250 where Doom and Iron Man travel into the future. Doom meets his future self, now more machine than man and is so disturbed by this hideous sight that he blasts him into smithereens. Along the lines of...

Doom: 'Bah! I swear I will never become this mockery of a man!'

Future Doom: 'Yes... I remember saying those words, so long ago now...'

Eyemelt (Eyemelt), Sunday, 12 November 2006 17:10 (eighteen years ago)

four years pass...

http://i40.tinypic.com/2h2qqs2.png

Princess TamTam, Sunday, 15 May 2011 12:52 (thirteen years ago)

Now that is a hot date

mh, Monday, 16 May 2011 18:27 (thirteen years ago)

I always liked the idea that Doom's "hideous deformity" is in fact just a minor scar on one cheek, but he is so vain that he considers this blemish a ruination of his hitherto perfect visage.

The New Dirty Vicar, Tuesday, 17 May 2011 17:01 (thirteen years ago)


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