Best comic of the 00s nomination thread

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I know there's already this thread:

End of Decade Polls: Nominations Thread:
End of Decade Polls: Nominations Thread

But I'd like to do a poll that's only about the best comic of the 00s. Did you (Dr Superman) want to do it too? If yes, let me know and I'll cancel this one.

Otherwise, this is the thread for nominating comics to be included in the "Best comic of the 00s" poll. Nomination deadline: January 7th, 2010. Will try to start poll shortly after.

You can nominate as many comics as you want, from any genre and country. Online comics too. The only requirement is that it was created in the 00s, ie no reprints.

My nominations:
Ice Haven -Daniel Clowes
Genesis -Robert Crumb
Bottomless Bellybutton -Dash Shaw

I'll post more as I think of them.

RR, Thursday, 5 November 2009 19:32 (fifteen years ago) link

A lot of things I'd nominate came out in English in 00 but are mad old.
That aside:

The Photographer - Guibert
Treasury of Victorian Murder - Geary
Usagi Yojimbo - Sakai

I AM NOT ONE TO PURSUE GAME, MY FRIEND - NO, INDEED. (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 November 2009 20:17 (fifteen years ago) link

"The only requirement is that it was created in the 00s, ie no reprints."

I want to appeal this for benefit of "I shall destroy all civilized worlds"

Philip Nunez, Thursday, 5 November 2009 20:18 (fifteen years ago) link

IF I MAY:

676 APPARITIONS OF KILLOFFER by Killoffer: Everyone should read this forever and ever and ever (INSERT INFINITE ELLIPSES!)
FUN HOME by Alison Bechdel
SEVEN SOLDIERS OF VICTORY by Grant Morrison and jillions of others.
et allllllllll....

MORE TO COME!

R Baez, Thursday, 5 November 2009 20:19 (fifteen years ago) link

the comic at the end of 'I Shall Destroy' is a legit contender, but it needs the setup

I AM NOT ONE TO PURSUE GAME, MY FRIEND - NO, INDEED. (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 November 2009 20:20 (fifteen years ago) link

Joann Sfar: The Rabbi's Cat, The Rabbi's Cat 2, Klezmer
Brian K. Vaughan: Y the Last Man
Warren Ellis: Transmetropolitan (last two years were this decade)
Bill Willingham: Fables
Terry Moore: Strangers in Paradise
Alison Bechdel: Fun Home
Fred Chao: Johnny Hiro
Alex Robinson: Tricked
David Small: Stitches

Mordy, Thursday, 5 November 2009 20:26 (fifteen years ago) link

did strangers in paradise ever stop being cheap titillation? I stopped reading it YEARS ago

I AM NOT ONE TO PURSUE GAME, MY FRIEND - NO, INDEED. (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 November 2009 20:31 (fifteen years ago) link

not to be a dick about it

I AM NOT ONE TO PURSUE GAME, MY FRIEND - NO, INDEED. (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 November 2009 20:31 (fifteen years ago) link

"I want to appeal this for benefit of "I shall destroy all civilized worlds""

Sorry, but I'm being strict about the no reprints rule. The Karasik comic afterword is ok as a nominee though (but only on its own).

RR, Thursday, 5 November 2009 21:16 (fifteen years ago) link

haha, i didn't realize there were any other SiP stans around here. love it to death but it definitely should've ended a few years earlier

it's weird, none of the books mentioned so far really jump out to me as BOOK OF THE DECADE where I will jump up and down for it, I feel like the best books I read this decade were reprints. like i would say Monster right now but of course that actually came out in the 90s. ditto for Love and Rockets. if hard pressed I might go with Morrison Bats. or Scott Pilgrim. Stitches and Y were pretty damn good too. Bellybutton... almost up there.

Nhex, Thursday, 5 November 2009 21:31 (fifteen years ago) link

There's a slew of weird internet memes that manifest as a kind of comic and while they often don't qualify as "good" by traditional criteria, they certainly feel more representative of the 00s than any comic I can think of (except for, bizarrely enough, the Fletcher Hanks stuff), so maybe they should get honorable mentions in the hopes that there will one day be a 'Jimmy Corrigan'-caliber lolcat?

Philip Nunez, Thursday, 5 November 2009 21:45 (fifteen years ago) link

tbh, achewood belongs on this poll.

I AM NOT ONE TO PURSUE GAME, MY FRIEND - NO, INDEED. (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 November 2009 21:47 (fifteen years ago) link

really? i'm a big achewood fan but mannnnnnn there is a lot to comb through to get to the good stuff. this is true for most webcomics, naturally

Nhex, Thursday, 5 November 2009 22:08 (fifteen years ago) link

we need to clarify here what "best comic" means. Is it a body of work (say, all the GMoz Batstuff in the aughties), is it a discrete trade, is it an individual comic or can it be a much larger body of work like achewood 00 to '10?

you get ribbons when you're in 4H (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 November 2009 22:16 (fifteen years ago) link

I'd say everyone feel free to categorize away (single issue/arc/self-sufficient graphic novel/that panel in FOX TROT that squishes Bechdel, SERIOUSLY). That seems to be the way to go.

R Baez, Thursday, 5 November 2009 22:19 (fifteen years ago) link

100 Demons - Barry
God gold and Golems - Sturm
Dungeon - Trondheim

you get ribbons when you're in 4H (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 November 2009 22:26 (fifteen years ago) link

I have a bunch of noms to include later but I'm in the end stages of a poker tournament, so for right now I'll just say --

Morrison/Quitely - WE3

WmC, Thursday, 5 November 2009 22:35 (fifteen years ago) link

"that panel in FOX TROT that squishes Bechdel, SERIOUSLY"
wha??

Philip Nunez, Thursday, 5 November 2009 22:38 (fifteen years ago) link

Matt Kindt: Super Spy
100 Bullets, surely!
Top 10

When two tribes go to war, he always gets picked last (James Morrison), Thursday, 5 November 2009 23:54 (fifteen years ago) link

Nextwave: Agents of H.A.T.E.
Gødland

EZ Snappin, Friday, 6 November 2009 01:03 (fifteen years ago) link

Final Crisis
52
Or Else
All-Star Superman
Sleeper

All I can think of at the moment. Ice Haven is my number one with a bullet, but it showed up in the first post (naturally).

I HEART CREEPY MENS (Deric W. Haircare), Friday, 6 November 2009 06:12 (fifteen years ago) link

Oh: NEW X-MEN, DUH.

I HEART CREEPY MENS (Deric W. Haircare), Friday, 6 November 2009 06:13 (fifteen years ago) link

Off the top of my head:

Alison Bechdel: Dykes to Watch Out For It's been a ongoing strip since the 1980s. I think it's been on a hiatus since 2008, but there's still several years' worth of strips from this decade.

Alan Moore & Zander Cannon: Smax. Miniseries.

Philippe Dupuy & Charles Berberian: Monsieur Jean. Ongoing series. It started in the 1990s, but three or four books have come out during this decade.

Cristophe Blain: Isaac the Pirate. Ongoing series.

Marjane Satrapi: Persepolis. Miniseries.

Marjane Satrapi: Embroideries. Graphic novel.

Brian K. Vaughan & various: Runaways. Ongoing series.

Dan Slott & Paul Pelletier & Rick Magyar: Great Lakes Avengers: Misassembled. Miniseries.

Will nominate more later.

Tuomas, Friday, 6 November 2009 13:15 (fifteen years ago) link

Oh yeah, I'm only nominating Vaughan's run on Runaways, as I haven't read anything that came after it.

Tuomas, Friday, 6 November 2009 13:16 (fifteen years ago) link

That means both Vol. 1 and Vol. 2, not just Vol. 1.

Tuomas, Friday, 6 November 2009 13:18 (fifteen years ago) link

Tales Designed To Thrizzle

I HEART CREEPY MENS (Deric W. Haircare), Friday, 6 November 2009 13:47 (fifteen years ago) link

Black Panther volume 4 (Hudlin/various, but also a great "Secret Invasion" 3-parter by Jason Aaron/Jefte Palo.)
The Boys - Ennis/Robertson/various
Astonishing X-Men - Whedon/Cassaday
Queen and Country - Rucka/various
Ex Machina - Vaughan/Harris
Daredevil - Bendis/Maleev
Alias - Bendis/Gaydos
Powers - Bendis/Oeming

maybe some more later

WmC, Friday, 6 November 2009 14:43 (fifteen years ago) link

ummm..... SEAGUY

The Dance at the Crossroads (HI DERE), Friday, 6 November 2009 15:07 (fifteen years ago) link

Castle Waiting - Medley
Daredevil - Lark, Brubaker
Rutu Modan - exit wounds
Black Hole - Charles Burns
Can't get no - rick veitch
The Perry Bible Fellowship
You'll Never Know - Carol Tyler
The Mourning Star - Strzepek

you get ribbons when you're in 4H (forksclovetofu), Friday, 6 November 2009 15:24 (fifteen years ago) link

Not trolling, honestly, but what did guys like so much about Ice Haven? Personally I thought it was weaker than Clowes' other work.

Nhex, Friday, 6 November 2009 15:28 (fifteen years ago) link

Oh yeah Black Hole definitely deserves a nom. Forgot about that one...

Nhex, Friday, 6 November 2009 15:29 (fifteen years ago) link

Ah, meant to nominate some online stuff.

Overcompensating - Jeffrey Rowland
Scary-Go-Round - John Allison
Achewood - Chris Onstad (mentioned above but I don't think formally nominated)

WmC, Friday, 6 November 2009 15:35 (fifteen years ago) link

52 seconded
Nick Bertozzi's The Salon is a thing of much beauty and enjoyment

there's a better way to browse (Dr. Superman), Friday, 6 November 2009 20:03 (fifteen years ago) link

Paul has a Summer Job - Michel Rabagliati
Acme Comics Library #18 - Chris Ware
Marvel Zombies - Robert Kirkman and Sean Phillips
Walking Dead - Robert Kirkman and Charlie Adlard
Epileptic - David B
Gus - Chris Blain
Left Bank Gang - Jaxon
Wimbledon Green - Seth
99 Ways to Tell a Story - Matt Madden
Criminal - Ed Brubaker and Sean Phillips
New Avengers - Bendis/various artists
Notes for a War Story - Gipi
Wolverine: Enemy of the State - Mark Millar and John Romita, Jr
My Brain is Hanging Upside Down - David Heatley
Parker: The Hunter - Darwyn Cooke
Tamara Drewe - Posy Simmonds
Plastic Man - Kyle Baker
Gotham Central - Ed Brubaker, Greg Rucka, Michael Lark
Satiro-Plastic - Gary Panter

Ward Fowler, Friday, 6 November 2009 20:08 (fifteen years ago) link

Rutu Modan - Exit Wounds
G. Willow Wilson - Cairo
G. Willow Wilson - Air
Bryan Lee O'Malley - Scott Pilgrim

Mordy, Friday, 6 November 2009 20:13 (fifteen years ago) link

Plastic Man - Kyle Baker
Special Forces - Kyle Baker

there's a better way to browse (Dr. Superman), Friday, 6 November 2009 20:13 (fifteen years ago) link

Ice Haven is the kind of comic that validates comics in that it couldn't have been made any other way. A lot of other comics seem to be only incidentally comics. Like Black Hole could just as easily have been a cartoon except it would have taken Burns 10000000 years to finish.

So I'd rate Ice Haven higher just for "comics are awesome by themselves!" boosterism but Clowes has already abandoned comics for movies so fat lot of good that does.

Philip Nunez, Friday, 6 November 2009 20:24 (fifteen years ago) link

What the hell, while we're throwing in noms

Demo by Brian Wood and Becky Cloonan
Heavy Liquid by Paul Pope
Yotsuba&! by Kiyohiko Azuma
Pluto by Naoki Urasawa
Blankets by Craig Thompson
I Killed Adolf Hitler by Jason
DC's The New Frontier by Darwyn Cooke

also thinking Bone, but since it ran from 1991 to 2004 maybe it shouldn't count (same as SiP)

Nhex, Friday, 6 November 2009 20:34 (fifteen years ago) link

i disagree about Black Hole - there were a ton of amazing compositions in that one that would've been utterly wasted in film/animation - constructed to be read

Nhex, Friday, 6 November 2009 20:36 (fifteen years ago) link

DMZ, by Brian Wood

Mordy, Friday, 6 November 2009 20:37 (fifteen years ago) link

"amazing compositions in that one that would've been utterly wasted"
Ha, I felt kind of bad for burning through that book in 10 minutes.

In a cartoon, Burns could force the viewer to concentrate for more than a second on an image "damn you I spent a year drawing this, you're gonna look at it dammt! ha, can't flip the page now, can you?"

Philip Nunez, Friday, 6 November 2009 20:54 (fifteen years ago) link

;_;

Nhex, Friday, 6 November 2009 21:30 (fifteen years ago) link

took me months to get though it

Nhex, Friday, 6 November 2009 21:30 (fifteen years ago) link

Here's what the list of nominees looks like so far:

52
99 Ways to Tell a Story -Matt Madden
100 Bullets
100 Demons -Barry
676 apparitions of Killoffer -Killoffer
Achewood -Chris Onstad
Acme Comics Library #18 -Chris Ware
Air -G. Willow Wilson
Alias -Bendis and Gaydos
All-Star Superman
Astonishing X-Men -Whedon and Cassaday
Black Hole -Charles Burns
Black Panther volume 4 -Hudlin, Jason Aaron, Jefte Palo and various
Blankets -Craig Thompson
Bone (2000-2004)

Bottomless Bellybutton -Dash Shaw
Cairo -G. Willow Wilson
Can't get no -Rick Veitch
Castle Waiting -Medley
Criminal -Ed Brubaker and Sean Phillips
Daredevil -Bendis and Maleev
Daredevil -Lark and Brubaker
DC's The New Frontier -Darwyn Cooke
Demo -Brian Wood and Becky Cloonan
DMZ -Brian Wood
Dungeon -Trondheim
Dykes to Watch Out For (strips from the 00s only) -Alison Bechdel
Embroideries -Marjane Satrapi
Epileptic -David B
Ex Machina -Vaughan and Harris
Exit Wounds -Rutu Modan
Fables -Bill Willingham
Final Crisis
Fun home -Alison Bechdel

Genesis -Robert Crumb
God gold and Golems -Sturm
Gødland
Gotham Central -Ed Brubaker, Greg Rucka and Michael Lark
Great Lakes Avengers: Misassembled -Dan Slott, Paul Pelletier and Rick Magyar
Gus -Chris Blain
Heavy Liquid -Paul Pope
I Killed Adolf Hitler -Jason
I shall destroy all the civilized planets afterword -Karasik
Ice Haven -Daniel Clowes
Isaac the Pirate -Cristophe Blain

Johnny Hiro -Fred Chao

Klezmer -Joann Sfar
Left Bank Gang -Jaxon
Lolcat internet meme -various
Marvel Zombies -Robert Kirkman and Sean Phillips
Matt Kindt: Super Spy
Monsieur Jean -Philippe Dupuy and Charles Berberian
My Brain is Hanging Upside Down -David Heatley
Nextwave: Agents of H.A.T.E.
New Avengers -Bendis and various artists
New X-Men
Notes for a War Story -Gipi
Or Else
Overcompensating -Jeffrey Rowland
Parker: The Hunter -Darwyn Cooke
Paul has a Summer Job - Michel Rabagliati
Persepolis -Marjane Satrapi
Plastic Man -Kyle Baker
Pluto -Naoki Urasawa
Powers -Bendis and Oeming
Queen and Country -Rucka and various
Runaways (Vaughan's run only, ie volumes 1 and 2) -Brian K. Vaughan and various
Satiro-Plastic -Gary Panter
Scary-Go-Round -John Allison
Scott Pilgrim -Bryan Lee O'Malley
Seaguy
Seven soldiers of victory -Grant Morrison and others
Shortcomings -Adrian Tomine
Sleeper
Smax -Alan Moore and Zander Cannon
Special Forces -Kyle Baker
Stitches -David Small
Strangers in Paradise (00s material only) -Terry Moore
Tales Designed To Thrizzle
Tamara Drewe -Posy Simmonds
The Boys -Ennis, Robertson and various
The Mourning Star -Strzepek
The Perry Bible Fellowship
The Photographer -Guibert
The Rabbi's Cat -Joann Sfar
The Rabbi's Cat 2 -Joann Sfar
The Salon -Nick Bertozzi
Top 10

Transmetropolitan (last two years) -Warren Ellis
Treasury of Victorian Murder - Geary

Tricked -Alex Robinson
Usagi Yojimbo -Sakai
Walking Dead -Robert Kirkman and Charlie Adlard
Wimbledon Green -Seth
WE3 -Morrison and Quitely
Wolverine: Enemy of the State -Mark Millar and John Romita, Jr
Y the Last Man -Brian K. Vaughan
Yotsuba&! -Kiyohiko Azuma

You'll Never Know -Carol Tyler





Please let me know if any are missing and if there're any other errors.

RR, Friday, 6 November 2009 21:57 (fifteen years ago) link

"if hard pressed I might go with Morrison Bats." -Nhex

Is "Bats" an abbreviation for the title? And, if yes, what's the full title? Let me know so I can include it in the list.

"There's a slew of weird internet memes that manifest as a kind of comic and while they often don't qualify as "good" by traditional criteria, they certainly feel more representative of the 00s than any comic I can think of (except for, bizarrely enough, the Fletcher Hanks stuff), so maybe they should get honorable mentions in the hopes that there will one day be a 'Jimmy Corrigan'-caliber lolcat?" -Philip Nunez

I've put in a nomination for the lolcat internet meme. Let me know if there are others you want included.

RR, Friday, 6 November 2009 22:07 (fifteen years ago) link

"we need to clarify here what "best comic" means. Is it a body of work (say, all the GMoz Batstuff in the aughties), is it a discrete trade, is it an individual comic or can it be a much larger body of work like achewood 00 to '10?" -forkslovetofu

I say yes for a discrete trade, a pamphlet and an internet meme. I'm undecided about body of work (but, yes, Achewood is in the list for now).

"I'd say everyone feel free to categorize away (single issue/arc/self-sufficient graphic novel/that panel in FOX TROT that squishes Bechdel, SERIOUSLY). That seems to be the way to go." -R Baez

Do you mean have separate polls for each category?

RR, Friday, 6 November 2009 22:19 (fifteen years ago) link

is there a deadline for this? I wanna look around the house and pull a whole buncha stuff.

you get ribbons when you're in 4H (forksclovetofu), Friday, 6 November 2009 22:26 (fifteen years ago) link

my previous thread was meant to be a catchall for creating various categories and discussing nominations and throwing around ideas, I think the only category actually put forward in that one was Batman stories (and 'Morrison Bats' refers to Grant Morrison's run in the Batman comic titled Batman--though he is currently writing the Batman comic titled Batman & Robin). I think sub-polls and categories are fun and will inevitibly pop up as interest arises, but I do like having one poll for ALL COMICS and COMICS-LIKE stuff, ie this one.

there's a better way to browse (Dr. Superman), Friday, 6 November 2009 22:27 (fifteen years ago) link

Is this best comic of-the-00s or best comic that happened to be created in the 00s?

Philip Nunez, Friday, 6 November 2009 22:59 (fifteen years ago) link

Julie Doucet: The Madame Paul Affair

Jessica Abel: La Perdida

Jessica Abel & Gabe Soria & Warren Pleece: Life Sucks

Robert Kirkman & Sean Phillips & Arthur Suydam: Marvel Zombies 2

Fred van Lente & Kev Walker: Marvel Zombies 3

Peter Milligan & Javier Pulido & Cliff Chiang: Human Target. This includes both the graphic novel Human Target: Final Cut and the ongoing series that followed it. I don't think it makes much sense to separate them into different entries, as the ongoing series pretty much continues the plot of the graphic novel. There was also an earlier Human Target miniseries by Milligan and Edvin Biukovic, but that one was released in the 90s, so it's not eligible here.

Jason: Why Are You Doing This?

Jason: Sshhh!

Jason: The Last Musketeer

Btw, The Left Bank Gang is also by Jason (aka the Norwegian artist John Arne Sæterøy), I'm not sure why Ward Fowler called him "Jaxon".

Tuomas, Saturday, 7 November 2009 10:06 (fifteen years ago) link

knew snake 'n' bacon and the jis collection were gonna get capped for technical reasons. which is bullshit, and this is why. snake 'n' bacon was a little-known alt paper weekly during the time those were run. plus uncollected. thus ridic long-shot for best comic of 90s list. same goes for jis. that stuff's never been published in english afik, never seen a us-accessible collection of any kind. seems a shame to exclude stuff like that & fletcher hanks.

never seen penny arcade, but it turns out that i disagree with it.

a dimension that can only be accessed through self-immolation (contenderizer), Monday, 14 December 2009 03:05 (fifteen years ago) link

Snake 'n' Bacon undoubtedly seen by thousands and thousands and thousands more people as a weekly multi-paper strip than as a book which had such a low print-run that its publisher filled reorders by using POD!!!

I'm not arsed about the Jis, but then it's not like anyone's gonna vote for it either

an terror has occurred (sic), Monday, 14 December 2009 03:39 (fifteen years ago) link

I'm not sure why being published in the US during this decade should be enough to call something a 00s comic. Apparently Edgar P. Jacob's Blake & Mortimer book "S.O.S. Meteors" has been translated into English for the first time this year, but it would be hard for me to call it a "00s comic book", since I first read it as kid back in the early 90s. USA is not the whole world.

ILC has never had a "best of the 90s" poll, nor a poll for any other decade, but I'm sure those works would be eligible for such polls, if we are to have them in the future.

Tuomas, Monday, 14 December 2009 10:39 (fifteen years ago) link

"USA is not the whole world."
Is there really any location with a manic, indigenous comics culture outside of USA/Japan?

Philip Nunez, Monday, 14 December 2009 16:29 (fifteen years ago) link

France, maybe?

that is a whole discussion within itself that is worth debating (forksclovetofu), Monday, 14 December 2009 16:33 (fifteen years ago) link

I get the sense that there is a very active South American scene, but I don't know much about it or where it's centered.

WmC, Monday, 14 December 2009 16:35 (fifteen years ago) link

It feels like L'Association and other non-US collectives are the beginnings of a homegrown scene rather than outgrowths of something already thriving.
Also, they seem to be more cosmopolitan in outlook -- that Israeli collection included an interview with Maruo Suehiro!

Philip Nunez, Monday, 14 December 2009 16:45 (fifteen years ago) link

most countries in europe have a 'comics culture' - france, britain, spain, italy, belgium, etc etc

Ward Fowler, Monday, 14 December 2009 16:49 (fifteen years ago) link

i mean, you cld EASILY compile a list of the greatest comics of all time that didn't include anything from america or japan

Ward Fowler, Monday, 14 December 2009 16:51 (fifteen years ago) link

I dunno man, those countries seem to have way more cultural capital invested in serious film than in comics, say. (In the US/Japan it seems every major cultural export is based on a comic book character.)
Is Metal Hurlant still running even?

Philip Nunez, Monday, 14 December 2009 17:28 (fifteen years ago) link

I'd say comics have been more integral to French culture than they've been to American culture at least since the 1950s. Asterix is basically a French national hero, and I'm sure the per capita sales of comics there is far bigger than in the US.

From what I've gathered Argentina has had a very strong comics culture for decades, but unfortunately not much of its comics have been translated into other languages, except for Munõz & Sampayo. Italy used to be a big comic country too, though I'm not sure what's the situation is in the 00s.

In Finland the most popular comic book is Donald Duck, which has the weekly sale of 300000 (in a country of 5 million people). Most of Disney comics these days are produced in Europe though, since they are much much more popular in here than in the US. Don Rosa is one of the few well-known American artists working in Disney comics today, and even his work was originally published in Europe only.

Tuomas, Monday, 14 December 2009 17:43 (fifteen years ago) link

Even if USA has produced a lot of comic book movies during the last 10-15 years, the movies have almost always been much more popular than the comics they're based on, which isn't the case with Asterix, Tintin, Corto Maltese, etc.

Tuomas, Monday, 14 December 2009 17:45 (fifteen years ago) link

I'll grant you Asterisk and TinTin are true juggernauts, but they largely seem like phenomena unto themselves, rather than part of a comic ecosystem,
in the same way that Where's Wally/Waldo doesn't speak for a vibrant tradition of spectacled British heroes.
Donald Duck is not a strong case for an indigenous Finnish comic scene!
(Maybe the word I'm looking for isn't exactly "indigenous," but I didn't want to use the word "nationalist," though I guess Asterisk might count)

Philip Nunez, Monday, 14 December 2009 18:08 (fifteen years ago) link

The disney characters, at the very least economically and most likely culturally, have far more clout in Europe than they do in America and that's been so for decades.

that is a whole discussion within itself that is worth debating (forksclovetofu), Monday, 14 December 2009 18:21 (fifteen years ago) link

This site has some statistics for comic book sales in France. Here are the top 10 sellers of 2008, with sales numbers in parentheses:

- Titeuf de Zep (1.832.000 ex.)
- Blake et Mortimer de Yves Sente et André Juillard (600.000 ex.)
- Lucky Luke de Laurent Gerra et Achdé (535.000 ex.)
- Largo Winch de Jean Van Hamme et Philippe Francq (490.000 ex.)
- Le Chat de Geluck (320.000 ex.)
- Thorgal de Sente et Rosinski (300.000 ex.)
- Lanfeust des étoiles de Christophe Arleston et Didier Tarquin (300.000 ex.)
- Cédric de Raoul Cauvin et Laudec (273.000 ex.)
- XIII Mystery de Xavier Dorison et Ralph Meyer (253.000 ex.)
- Les Profs d’Erroc et Pica ou Les Bidochon de Christian Binet (200.000 ex.)

(Note that none of the top sellers are Asterix or Tintin.) All of the top 4 and number 9 are comics originally published in French (in France, Belgium, or Switzerland); I do not recognize the other five, but I'm sure most of them are French too. Also, in France comics are not generally published as monthly floppies, rather than as larger, 48-page "albums"; albums in a particular series come out maybe 1-4 times a year, sometimes less often. But even without taking that into consideration, it looks like the per capita sales of comics in France are clearly bigger than in the US.

Tuomas, Monday, 14 December 2009 18:30 (fifteen years ago) link

The disney characters, at the very least economically and most likely culturally, have far more clout in Europe than they do in America and that's been so for decades.

Yeah, like I said, these days most of the comics featuring Disney characters are made in Europe (and probably most of them are sold in here too), so even if the characters are American, the comics themselves could certainly be called European.

Tuomas, Monday, 14 December 2009 18:35 (fifteen years ago) link

Do you recommend any of those Fr. comics listed above?
Also, why does that site have a Chris Ware banner?

Philip Nunez, Monday, 14 December 2009 18:37 (fifteen years ago) link

Cuz Chris Ware has, at the very least economically and most likely culturally, far more clout in Europe than he does in America.

that is a whole discussion within itself that is worth debating (forksclovetofu), Monday, 14 December 2009 18:40 (fifteen years ago) link

If I was gonna learn a foreign language solely for comic reading (never gonna happen, but in a perfect world) I'd be hard torn to decide between french and japanese.

that is a whole discussion within itself that is worth debating (forksclovetofu), Monday, 14 December 2009 18:41 (fifteen years ago) link

Will Belgium be building a theme park devoted to pain and self-loathing in his honor?

Philip Nunez, Monday, 14 December 2009 18:42 (fifteen years ago) link

imagine the funhouse mirror opportunities

that is a whole discussion within itself that is worth debating (forksclovetofu), Monday, 14 December 2009 18:43 (fifteen years ago) link

The entry gates should have a sign: "Fathers, abandon your children here!"

Philip Nunez, Monday, 14 December 2009 18:51 (fifteen years ago) link

free stomachache inducing cough drops for the boys
doughy midsection and crippling doubt for the girls

that is a whole discussion within itself that is worth debating (forksclovetofu), Monday, 14 December 2009 18:54 (fifteen years ago) link

- 'where's wally' actually IS part of a 'vibrant' British cultural tradition of bespectacled heroes that goes back at least as far as Billy Bunter, and comes right up to date w/ Harry Potter (which I'm guessing wld pass even yr extremely screwy definition of 'cultural capital'). And Asterix and Tintin are both a product and reflection of an entire tradition of juvenile comics in Europe - they only stand apart because of their enormous success, but there are many other, similar series - Blake and Mortimer, Gaston, Luke Luke etc etc - that are very nearly as popular and central to the history of Euro comics. Every largeish French city - or British city, come to that - will have a bookshop or dedicated comic shop selling a huge range of comics and albums. Only a tiny tiny sub-section of that will be comics translated from the American (or Japanese).

- 'Metal Hurlant' is no longer published, but then it was never as successful or important as other Franco-Belgian anthology comics like A Suivre, Tintin magazine etc. And as Tuomas notes, the trend in France is for original, non-serialised graphic novels.

Ward Fowler, Monday, 14 December 2009 19:41 (fifteen years ago) link

Gaston! This editor of our jr. high newspaper translated some Gaston comics for us. I liked it enough, but It didn't catch on. People here want their Garfield and Dilbert I guess.

Philip Nunez, Monday, 14 December 2009 20:41 (fifteen years ago) link

Despite the best efforts of many a "Comics...They Ain't Just For Kids Anymore!!!!!1" think piece writer, Americans (outside of the relatively small subset of us nerds) just don't give a fuck about comics.

Zoo Snickers (Deric W. Haircare), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 02:34 (fifteen years ago) link

I.e. prolly, like, 1 out of every 100 people who saw Iron Man actually picked up an Iron Man comic afterwards.

Zoo Snickers (Deric W. Haircare), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 02:36 (fifteen years ago) link

"USA is not the whole world."
Is there really any location with a manic, indigenous comics culture outside of USA/Japan?

― Philip Nunez, Monday, December 14, 2009 11:29 AM (10 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

korea

farting irl (cankles), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 02:39 (fifteen years ago) link

The entry gates should have a sign: "Fathers, abandon your children here!"

Nunez was crusing for a SBanning but redeemed himself totally here

I.e. prolly, like, 1 out of every 100 people who saw Iron Man actually picked up an Iron Man comic afterwards.

lol at your aggressively low numbers - more like 100 people, total

an terror has occurred (sic), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 03:10 (fifteen years ago) link

idea that comics are more culturally relevant in the US than in france & belgium boggles the mind. think we're way behind asia and europe on that score. desperately recycling decades-old characters as crap movies hardly counts as an "active comics culture".

on jis & cat's don't exist: i've only dug around a little, but i'm unable to find any clear info on when those pieces were first published - or whether or not they've been previously published at all. the penmanship varies enough to suggest that they were drawn over a fairly long period of time, but only a few sketches are dated (those from 89-91). no big deal, cuz yeah, it's not gonna scoop up a ton of votes or anything.

a dimension that can only be accessed through self-immolation (contenderizer), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 09:25 (fifteen years ago) link

'desperately recycling decades-old characters as crap movies hardly counts as an "active comics culture".'
Don't forget merchandising!

'no big deal, cuz yeah, it's not gonna scoop up a ton of votes or anything.'
Can you post some pages from it? Don't give up against the US/JP comics hegemony!

re: korea
There's a weird dynamic w/ kr/jp where I suspect the cultural embargo against japan exacerbated korea's drawing (sometimes verbatim) from japan's comic culture rather than developing its own.
(There's dooly the dinosaur, which I guess might be comparable to TinTin)
there's a neat site with amateur korean e-comics here: http://www.comix.co.kr/ (I think they use the same web software as this other french site), but I don't see
anyone inspired to champion/translate such comics over here -- will anyone even nominate one of those?

Where is the equivalent of samehat.blogspot.com for korean, french, russian, etc... comics?

Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 15 December 2009 19:32 (fifteen years ago) link

two weeks pass...

Sorry for not updating the nominations list and answering questions in a while. I'm going to extend the nominations deadline to January 27th 2010 (so I can catch up with all the backlog and organize the voting part).

Repeat: the NEW NOMINATIONS DEADLINE IS JANUARY 27TH 2010.

+ Happy New Year to everyone!

RR, Monday, 4 January 2010 13:57 (fifteen years ago) link

three weeks pass...

I'm so sorry but I have to extend the nominations deadline again...

The NEW NEW NOMINATIONS DEADLINE IS FEBRUARY 17TH 2010.

Sorry also that this is very short notice.

RR, Monday, 25 January 2010 20:55 (fifteen years ago) link

I'm ON IPHONE, have we nommed Schizo #4 yet?

innocent snack attack victim (sic), Monday, 25 January 2010 22:15 (fifteen years ago) link

Yes, Schizo 4 is on the nominations list.

RR, Wednesday, 27 January 2010 15:02 (fourteen years ago) link

And here, finally, is the updated nominations list:

20th Century Boys -Naoki Urasawa
28th Street
52
99 Ways to Tell a Story -Matt Madden
100 Bullets
100 Demons -Barry
676 apparitions of Killoffer -Killoffer
A Drifting Life -Yoshihiro Tatsumi
Achewood -Chris Onstad
Acme Comics Library #18 -Chris Ware
Acme Comics Library #19 -Chris Ware
Action Comics -Geoff Johns
Against Pain -Ron Rege
Age of Bronze -Shanower
Air -G. Willow Wilson
Alan's War -Guibert
Alias -Bendis and Gaydos
Alice in Sunderland -Bryan Talbot
All-Star Superman
Angry Youth Comics -Johnny Ryan
Asterios Polyp -David Mazzuchelli
Astonishing X-Men -Whedon and Cassaday
Atlas -Dylan Horrocks
Automatic Kafka -Joe Casey and Ashley Wood
B&TB (Waid/Perez issues)
Babel –David B
Batman (Grant Morrison's run)
Batman: Year One Hundred
Big In Japan -Seth Fisher
Birds of Prey (Simone's run only) -Gail Simone and various
BJ And Da Dogs
Black Hole -Charles Burns
Black Panther volume 4 -Hudlin, Jason Aaron, Jefte Palo and various
Blankets -Craig Thompson
Blue Monday -Chynna Clugston
Bodyworld
Bone (2000-2004)
Bottomless Bellybutton -Dash Shaw
Cairo -G. Willow Wilson
Can't get no -Rick Veitch
Captain America v5 (The Winter Soldier arc especially) - Brubaker and Epting
Carnet de Voyage -Craig Thompson
Casanova -Matt Fraction with Gabriel Ba and others
Castle Waiting -Medley
Catwoman -Brubaker, Cooke, Stewart and others
Cola Madnes -Panter
Courtney Crumrin -Ted Naifeh
Criminal -Ed Brubaker and Sean Phillips
Crogan's Vengeance
Cromartie High School
Crossing Midnight -Mike Carey, Jim Fern and Eric Nguyen
Cul De Sac
Daredevil -Bendis and Maleev
Daredevil -Lark and Brubaker
Dark Knight Strikes Again -Frank Miller and Lynn Varley
DC's The New Frontier -Darwyn Cooke
Dead Enders -Ed Brubaker
Death Note -Obata and Ohba
Demo -Brian Wood and Becky Cloonan
Detective Comics -Paul Dini
DMZ -Brian Wood
Doktor Sleepless -Warren Ellis
Dungeon -Trondheim
Dykes to Watch Out For (strips from the 00s only) -Alison Bechdel
Ego & Hubris: The Michael Malice Story -Harvey Pekar and Gary Dumm
Eightball #23 -Daniel Clowes
Elmer
Elvis Road- X. Robel and H. Reumann
Embroideries -Marjane Satrapi
Epileptic -David B
Essex County -Jeff Lemire
Ex Machina -Vaughan and Harris
Exit Wounds -Rutu Modan
Fables -Bill Willingham
Fell -Warren Ellis and Ben Templesmith
Fight or Run: Shadow of the Chopper
Final Crisis
Finder: Talisman -Carla Speed McNeil
Freakangels -Warren Ellis
Fred The Clown -Langridge
Fun home -Alison Bechdel
Ganges
Gantz -Hiroya Oku
Genesis -Robert Crumb
George Sprott - Seth
Ghost of Hoppers
Global Frequency - Warren Ellis with various artists
Gloriana -Kevin Huizenga
God gold and Golems -Sturm
Gødland
Gongwanadon -Tom Herpich
Gotham Central -Ed Brubaker, Greg Rucka and Michael Lark
Great Lakes Avengers: Misassembled -Dan Slott, Paul Pelletier and Rick Magyar
Green Lantern -Geoff Johns
Green Lantern Corps (ongoing series) -Dave Gibbons, Peter Tomasi and various
Greyshirt: Indigo Sunset -Veitch
Grotesque (3 issues) -Sergio Ponchione
Gus -Chris Blain
Heavy Liquid -Paul Pope
Hopeless Savages -Jan Van Meter
Human Target (the graphic novel and the series that followed it) -Peter Milligan, Javier Pulido and Cliff Chiang
I Killed Adolf Hitler -Jason
I shall destroy all the civilized planets afterword -Karasik
Ice Haven -Daniel Clowes
Immortal Iron Fist -Brubaker and Fraction, David Aja and others
Incredible Hercules –Pak, Van Lente, et al
Iron Man (the Fraction/Larocca run)
Isaac the Pirate -Cristophe Blain
Jamilti & other stories -Rutu Modan
Johnny Hiro -Fred Chao
King-Cat 57-70 -John Porcellino
Klezmer -Joann Sfar
Kramers Ergot 4 -various
Kramers Ergot 7 -various
Kurosagi Corpse Delivery Service
La Perdida -Jessica Abel
League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
Les petits reins -Lewis Trondheim
Life Sucks -Jessica Abel, Gabe Soria and Warren Pleece
Lolcat internet meme -various
Louis Riel –Chester Brown
Love and Rockets -Los Bros Hernandez
Love The Way You Love -Jamie S. Rich
Luba
Lucifer
Maakies -Tony Millionaire
Madrox -Peter David and Pablo Raimondi
Maggots -Brian Chippendale
Marvel Zombies -Robert Kirkman, Sean Phillips and Arthur Suydam
Marvel Zombies 2 -Robert Kirkman, Sean Phillips and Arthur Suydam
Marvel Zombies 3 -Fred van Lente and Kev Walker
Masterpiece Comics -Sikoryak
Matt Kindt: Super Spy
Mister O -Lewis Trondheim
Monsieur Jean -Philippe Dupuy and Charles Berberian
Mother Come Home -Hornscheimer
My Brain is Hanging Upside Down -David Heatley
Nate Turner -Kyle Baker
Nextwave: Agents of H.A.T.E.
New Avengers -Bendis and various artists
New Engineering -Yuichi Yokoyama
New X-Men
Nijihara Holograph
Ninja -Brian Chippendale
Notes for a War Story -Gipi
Omega the Unknown -Lethem and Dalrymple
Ordinary Victories -Larcenet
Or Else
Overcompensating -Jeffrey Rowland
Parker: The Hunter -Darwyn Cooke
Paul Has a Summer Job -Michel Rabagliati
Penny Arcade
Persepolis-Marjane Satrapi
Petey and Pussy -Keirschbaum
Pim & Francie: The Golden Bear Days (except for the Biologic Show reprints) -Al Columbia
Planet Hulk
Planetes
Plastic Man -Kyle Baker
Pluto -Naoki Urasawa
Powers -Bendis and Oeming
Powr Mastrs -CF
Prison Pit -Johnny Ryan
Promethea -Moore
Pulverize
Queen and Country -Rucka and various
Rasl -Smith
Runaways (Vaughan's run only, ie volumes 1 and 2) -Brian K. Vaughan and various
Safe area gorazde –Joe Sacco
Satiro-Plastic -Gary Panter
Scary-Go-Round -John Allison
Schizo 4 (except for the stuff done in 1999) -Ivan Brunetti
Scooter Girl -Chynna Clugston
Scott Pilgrim -Bryan Lee O'Malley
Seaguy
Seven soldiers of victory -Grant Morrison and others
Shortcomings -Adrian Tomine
Shrimpy and Paul - Marc Bell
Silver Surfer: Requiem -J. Michael Straczynski and Esad Ribic
Skibber bee bye -Ron Rege
Skyscrapers of the Midwest -Josh Cotter
Sleeper
Sloth -Gilbert
Smax -Alan Moore and Zander Cannon
Solo -Darwyn Cooke
Solo -Brendan McCarthy
Special Forces -Kyle Baker
Sshhh! -Jason
Stitches -David Small
Strangers in Paradise (00s material only) -Terry Moore
Super F*ckers –James Kochalka
Tales Designed To Thrizzle -Michael Kupperman
Tamara Drewe -Posy Simmonds
The Amazing Remarkable Monsieur Leotard -Eddie Campbell
The Bamboo Samurai -Taiyou Matsumoto and Issei Eifuku
The Boys -Ennis, Robertson and various
The Education of Hopey Glass
The Fate Of The Artist -Eddie Campbell
The Filth -Grant Morrison, Chris Weston and Gary Erskine
The Intimates -Joe Casey and Giuseppe Camuncoli
The Last Day -Dave Sim and Gerhard
The Last Musketeer -Jason
The Left Bank Gang -Jason
The Madame Paul Affair -Julie Doucet
The Mourning Star -Strzepek
The Nightly News -Jonathan Hickman
The Originals -Dave Gibbons
The Perry Bible Fellowship
The Photographer -Guibert
The Quitter -Harvey Pekar and Dean Haspiel
The Rabbi's Cat -Joann Sfar
The Rabbi's Cat 2 -Joann Sfar
The Salon -Nick Bertozzi
The Spirit (Darwyn Cooke's run)
The Summer of Love -Debbie Drechsler
The Ultimates
The Unwritten (pre 2010 issues only) -Mike Carey
The World Below -Chadwick
Thor -J. Michael Straczynski
Three Shadows -Pedrosa
Thunderbolts -Warren Ellis
Tiempos finales -Samuel Hiti
Top 10
Transmetropolitan (last two years) -Warren Ellis
Travel
Treasury of Victorian Murder - Geary
Tricked -Alex Robinson
Usagi Yojimbo -Sakai
Vagabond -Inoue
Vimanarama
Walking Dead -Robert Kirkman and Charlie Adlard
Wally Gropius strips (from Mome) -Tim Hensley
WE3 -Morrison and Quitely
Weasel -Dave Cooper
Why Are You Doing This? -Jason
Why I Killed Peter -Alfred and Ka
Willworld - DeMatteis and Fisher
Wimbledon Green -Seth
Wolverine: Enemy of the State -Mark Millar and John Romita, Jr
X-Factor -Peter David
X-Force/X-Statix -Milligan and Allred
Y the Last Man -Brian K. Vaughan
Yotsuba&! -Kiyohiko Azuma
You'll Never Know -Carol Tyler
Young Liars -David Lapham

I'll now tackle the backlog of unanswered questions.

RR, Wednesday, 27 January 2010 15:17 (fourteen years ago) link

definitely would like The Photographer by Guibert on there.

forksclovetofu, Wednesday, 27 January 2010 15:21 (fourteen years ago) link

No American Elf? And I'll second a nomination for The Photographer.

fit and working again, Wednesday, 27 January 2010 15:33 (fourteen years ago) link

Wasn't Cola Madnes a reprint?

fit and working again, Wednesday, 27 January 2010 15:34 (fourteen years ago) link

Oh just noticed The Photographer on there.

fit and working again, Wednesday, 27 January 2010 15:55 (fourteen years ago) link

whoops, right under "The". my bad.

forksclovetofu, Wednesday, 27 January 2010 17:00 (fourteen years ago) link

Can you add Mister i?

fit and working again, Wednesday, 27 January 2010 17:37 (fourteen years ago) link

missed "the '00s Alec"

see also cockfarmer fanbases (sic), Thursday, 28 January 2010 03:38 (fourteen years ago) link

no Losers?

don't mind me: just exhuming dead horses... (Drugs A. Money), Saturday, 30 January 2010 14:26 (fourteen years ago) link

"this is gonna be an ol' fashioned write-in poll and not a pick one, ah hopes?" (forksclovetofu, 11.16.09) and "How many votes are we going to get with this? My top ten, say, are probably all here, but maybe not my top twenty." (sandy, 12.8.09)

To both questions: I don't know -haven't decided yet.

"Big In Japan gets a bit pointlessly superhero by the end but the first issue is so gleeful and amazing. the sandwich!
(actually I'd happily change my nomination just to #1)" (sic, 12.16.09)

Done.

RR, Tuesday, 9 February 2010 22:49 (fourteen years ago) link

Questions for Philip Nunez:

"there was an israeli compilation called red salmon or something? 
I don't know about best, but it was pretty good." (12.8.09) and "oh the israeli anthology is called dead herring not red salmon!
 here is an excellent comic that was in it: " (12.9.09)

Do you want dead herring to be included in the nominations list? Or the comic that you linked to (as its own entry)?

"scott mccloud's google chrome comic is a very good encapsulation of the 00s." (12.8.09)

Do you want it to be included in the nominations list?

RR, Wednesday, 10 February 2010 02:19 (fourteen years ago) link

I think Planetary by Warren Ellis deserves a nomination.

AJD, Saturday, 13 February 2010 22:14 (fourteen years ago) link

Arg -I'm so sorry, but I'm going to have to put this poll on hold for a while as life is very busy for me at the moment. I'll try to finish it sometime in the next few months but can't guarantee it.

Repeat: POLL IS ON HOLD UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE.

Place your bets on how long it'll take me to actually finish it. Earth, swallow me...

RR, Monday, 15 February 2010 19:46 (fourteen years ago) link

I'd vote for Planetary but I figured it was 90s. I just caught up on Ex Machina, which is excellent. I wish the library carried the collected books of The Boys like it does for Ex Machina, Fables and others. $120 is a bit pricey for six of those slim volumes that would only take a few hours to read.

Fastnbulbous, Friday, 19 February 2010 21:39 (fourteen years ago) link

Oh man, I just saw that Ex Machina only has 3 issues left until the conclusion. I'm excited to read it, but sorry it'll be over. For someone who's reading Doktor Sleepless (if Ellis ever gets it going again), Fables and The Unwritten, what else is recommended?

Fastnbulbous, Friday, 19 February 2010 21:50 (fourteen years ago) link


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