Batman Begins - ANTICIPATED! Movie discussion, spoilers and whatnot

MICHAEL CAINE DOES COCKNEY! YAY!

But, yeah - Tom Wilkinson hamming it up, Gary Oldman toning it down (!!!), Christian Bale using The Batman Voice against skels, Liam Neeson's goatee, Michael Caine as an Alfred with some fucking stones and moxie, Cillian Murphy as dangerous but ineffectual, Katie Holmes as a strong platonic love interest, cross-cutting between young Bruce and older Bruce at the start, BUYING THE HOTEL! And once I wrapped my meat head around the story's emphasis on FEAR, having The Scarecrow as the villain made perfect sense. And the usual masks within masks within masks stuff. And I'm kinda hoping that the ending means Nolan & Co. might take a run at that clown-faced guy. And the entire death-of-parents sequence was fantastic. I almost cried.

As for the Ra's Ah Ghul thing - the scene in Wayne Manor lead me to think that Ducard WAS Ra's Ah Ghul from the beginning, and he employed someone else as the public Ra's Ah Ghul facade so he could do his thing w/out being a target.

The exchange between me and my bladder, circa 15 minutes into the film:

Bladder: "I gotta pee!"
Me: "Divert your liquids to the tear-ducts!"

Yes! The death of Waynes père and mère was totally reach for the tissue stuff. The film nailed ALL the iconic aspects of Batman (at least the ones that I care about, i.e. courtesy Frank Miller -- cynical humor and general bad mother growling).

"I swear to God!"
"SWEAR. TO. ME."

Us at ILC are keeping holding the completely optimistic fort down!

Also (and this is just a minor gripe in regards to characters where a secret identity is key) ... actually, I guess it's key, when you're telling The Story about a character whose loved ones would be in peril should the hero's secret identity be revealed to put those loved ones in peril. Hahahaha - of course, in this telling, Batman's true love is GOTHAM, so that ain't so corny. He sucked more face w/ city streets than he did w/ Katie Holmes!

Pro: Batman operates in the darkness and is so fast that he’s virtually unseen by his enemies.
Con: The final action sequence operates in the darkness and is so fast that it’s virtually unseen by the audience.

Pro: Christian Bale convincingly plays a tormented but driven Bruce Wayne.
Con: Katie Holmes convincingly plays someone who has no purpose being in the movie besides being fodder for unwashed fanboys to fantasize about getting Tom Cruise’s sloppy seconds.

Pro: This one's more of a thinking man's Batman than in previous movies. He shakes down thugs, uses detective work to get the corrupt behind bars, and is actually smart enough to take over his family's company again (albeit off camera). He's not just some guy who's sole talent is to karate fight a bunch of clowns.

Con: Would it hurt to have a montage in which he reads a few chemistry books? Even Homer Simpson knows that Batman's a scientist.

(I'm going tonight)

One last bit: when Tom Wayne shows Bruce the pearls -- oh my gawd! The pathos afforded to us fanboys (and girls)! ~*tear*~

All of the cast are good, from Wilkinson's Dick Tracy villain to Bale (perfect) as both Bat and Bruce.
Its beautiful and feels classy from the first frame, which is one of the benefits of hiring a proper director. Though Nolan is no action director - the fight scenes are frequently confusing and incoherent, and though I know Bats' enemies are supposed to be confused by his tactics, the audience shouldn't be.
The fear toxin scenes are surprisingly scary. Gotham actually feels like a real city with a life and personality rather than the cold piece of design of the Burton films.
It takes most of the good stuff from Year One, especially the coda, which just leaves you longing for the sequel.
But...the first act is so much better than the rest of the film it feels unbalanced. The final act threat & climax all feels a bit forced and perfunctory, and I only went with it because the first act had done such a good job of hooking me. Oh, and cos it was Batman, of course.
But then it wasn't quite Batman, was it? The closest we've seen in a movie so far, sure, but not quite the Bats I know and love, not the polymorphic genius, the warrior-scientist-detective of the comics. Mainly just a warrior. He doesn't really use his detective abilities, he just eavesdrops on bad guys, shows up and beats the crap out of them...and he flaunts his lack of sceintific knowledge to Lucius.
But I loved it, I'm nitpicking.
The bit that got my fanboy tearducts the most was Bruce's first exchange with Alfred : "You haven't given up on me yet?"
"Never."
I dunno why...

Some nits:

The handheld claustrophobic action scenes did get a little old. I thought it was perfect during Bat vs. thugs scenes to create the proper sense of fear and confusion, but unnecessary and annoying in the other fight scenes.

The jokes were pretty lame, but in a charming "hey, at least we're trying" way.

But back to optimism, almost all the actors were amazing, but especially Bale, dude who played Wayne Sr., Oldman, and Cilian Murphy. And, I'm not afraid to admit, Cilian Murphy is a beautiful man.

The scenes where Bale got to be "Bruce Wayne, millionaire playboy" were the funniest parts of the movie by far, I wanted more of them.

I thought the joker at the end was a bit heavy-handed, but I still LOVED how they ended the movie with the creation of Batman's rogues gallery.

On the ILX thread, Ned something about how this movie tried to be too much, but that that's a far preferable problem than the opposite, and he's OTM. The climax wasn't all that climactic, and the lengthy denouement only exacerbated that, though the denouement itself was pretty cool.

The perfunctory action-movie one-liners felt like just that, ENOUGH ALREADY, HOLLYWOOD! And wtf, Batman, nice disregard for public & private property! Only a jerk drives his car on someone else's roof.

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I thought it was done way better than in Burton's Batman.

Also, was the Opera scene a nod to Burton? I have seen Batman in a long time, but the Opera bit reminded me of the big parade scene with all the Joker-gas balloons and the thugs hanging from them.

ALSO, the brief, brief, brief shot of Gordon's family. Woo hoo!

And SHAME for me misremembering Bat-Manuel.

It's (vulgar) Marxism! The abolition of private property by the most private propertied fellow in Gotham! TALK ABOUT BITING THE HAND THAT etc.

Those long-fingered things? What was up with those?

PS: Batman looked really cool when he was gliding off rooftops.

I loved the bit where younger Gordon comforts lil Bruce.

I loved the bit where he headbutted Falcone.

I loved the (cheesy) bit where the valet said "Nice Car." and he said "You should see my other one..."

Otherwise, I can't think of a decent villain who hasn't been used. The Ventriloquist has potential. I can see Bill Nighy wandering around with a bemused expression and glasses saying 'Oh no, I don't give the orders' for 90 minutes.

Got way better as it went along, though. By setting up the story/lore so realistically/feasibly, it pretty much earned the right to be all cartoony-hoo-hah at the end. And that first scene with Falcone in the bar, sticking the gun in Bruce's face: BEST OVERACTING EVER.

ihttp://www.silversmoke.org/livejournal/batman.jpg

(thanks to Madolan for the link)

Yeah, so do I.

So in closing, BATMAN BEGINS FOR BEST PICTURE FOR THE NEXT TEN YEARS! KATIE HOLMES' NIPPLES FOR BEST SUPPORTING ACTRESS!

EXACTLY.

This is one of those movies where watching it the second time was a huge thrill because I was really pretty sure that it wasn't actually as good as I remembered and that I had just been happy it didn't suck. But it really is that good!

As usual for every Batman movie, I wasn't interested in the love interest (plotwise, Leee -- I'm not objecting to Katie Holmes in all her Katieness), but unlike most of them, it wasn't a hindrance. I mean, I'm not interested in most guys' love lives, why should Batman be any different?

Everything I didn't like about Liam Neeson at first wound up paying off, too, which was unexpected and nicely done.

I bumped this thread mostly because I thought I was onto something re: Mask of the Phantasm, but I think I'm chasing my own tail at this point... though both films introduce female love interests from Bruce's pre-Bats life; and he's pursued at one point by cops (more of a shared ancestry from Year One, probably) -- it was all much clearer before I fell asleep last night.

I'm sure there was some casting news recently that mentioned the next Batvillain being Two-Face; I can't remember who they said would be plaing him, though.

I recently watched Scarecrow on a Plane, and I'm becoming a big Cillian Murphy fan. He has such pretty eyes and he's capable of such villainy. I have a hard time reconciling his Dr. Crane and Crane on a Plane roles with the pretty sympathetic role I first saw him in (y'know, that sequel to the Sandra Bullock rehabsploitation flick).

Maybe I was being too esoteric:
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00004UEDQ.01._PE13_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

Thanks to "Jindrak" for the info and "I Dig Batman" for his "insiderness."

Madonna!

i like paul bettany but him as the joker is going to go so wrong.

Cate Blanchette?

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Sienna Miller - she was good in the short-lived "Fast Eddie" on the U.S.'s Fox Network. She'd be a great Harlequin. (On the also short-lived "Birds of Prey" t.v. show, Harley was Mia Sara. Rrrrow.)

Weisz has mentioned a third Mummy movie, which I hope learns from the over-the-top errors of "Van Helsing".

??

It's like a comic.

Um. Cillian Murphy. Is Irish.

(haha, this should be fun)