I am guessing this is only applicable to work-for-hire properties, sorry non-spandex fans.
― Tom (Groke), Monday, 15 August 2005 15:49 (twenty years ago)
― Tom (Groke), Monday, 15 August 2005 15:53 (twenty years ago)
― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 15 August 2005 15:53 (twenty years ago)
― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 15 August 2005 15:59 (twenty years ago)
And are you talking about wholesale creative change, or just cog replacement (cf. Lee / Ditko becoming Lee / Romita on Spidey)?
Also, your assessment of Tom V's Swamp Thing is totally OTM.
― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 15 August 2005 16:12 (twenty years ago)
― The Yellow Kid, Monday, 15 August 2005 16:34 (twenty years ago)
― Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Monday, 15 August 2005 17:17 (twenty years ago)
It's true for non-spandex stuff too, though - post-Franquin Spirou and post-Goscinny Asterix are both very depressing.
― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Monday, 15 August 2005 20:06 (twenty years ago)
Well, Fournier's stuff's not that bad. And do not forget that the Franquin run on Spirou is post-Jijé, which is also considered a classic. Though Franquin really upped the ante, yeah.
― iodine (iodine), Monday, 15 August 2005 22:57 (twenty years ago)
The first issue after Grant Morrison on JLA is actually really good! But then Mark Waid turns up.
― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 00:19 (twenty years ago)
On the other hand, Gaiman in Miracleman is great, ranks easily among the best of his work.
Those JLA issues Mark Waid scripted are quite possibly the worst thing he ever did, along with the six or seven issues he did on Avengers and X-Men.
― iodine (iodine), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 01:12 (twenty years ago)
I guess I agree with Chuck on Morrison's "kiss of death". Doom Patrol should have been retired with his last issue, Animal Man seems to have gone too "Vertigo" following his departure, JLA turned into an obnoxious franchise (I'm very sick of pretentious fans misusing the word "icon" to describe DC's superhero properties, as well as the vogue for referring to said superheroes by using their civilian names, as if they were real people with actual personalities-- all this seems to have been GM's fault), and Marvel's returning to spandex X-Men in the comics after he'd brought the characters back up to date was a total misstep and a waste of time. (Why did they bother? They wear black leather in the movies anyway!) I dunno, was Ann Nocenti's Kid Eternity series any good?
― Chris F. (servoret), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 02:15 (twenty years ago)
Even more, if somebody asks me about Grant's Kid Eternity, I would have to say that I liked it but I don't remember a thing about it other than it felt like a proto-Invisibles. On the other hand, if I got asked about Nocenti's run, I'd have to admit that to this day I haven't forgotten KE #6 "Eating Pop Porn", and I doubt I ever will.
― iodine (iodine), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 04:26 (twenty years ago)
― Leeeeeeee (Leee), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 05:30 (twenty years ago)
But I agree with Andrew about Ellis, at least about 90s Ellis.
― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 08:29 (twenty years ago)
Rick Veitch, not Tom Veitch, on Swamp Thing was good all the time and did get better as he was going along.
Ann Nocenti's Kid Eternity was awful, but crucially, Grant's version wasn't any good either.
― kit brash (kit brash), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 10:29 (twenty years ago)
― Chris F. (servoret), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 10:47 (twenty years ago)
― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 10:50 (twenty years ago)
― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 11:11 (twenty years ago)
I think a case of a great run being followed by another great run is the Levitz/Giffen LOSH and the "Five Year Gap" Legion, but I know that there is a lot of controversy and much arguing around the FYG. And you could make a case that it's not a complete change of creative teams.
― Amadeo (Amadeo G.), Saturday, 20 August 2005 22:05 (twenty years ago)
Does anyone these days still believe that the 5YG Legion wouldn't have been fantastic if it had gotten more than three issues in before being crapcocked about by DC editorial fuckwittery?
― kit brash (kit brash), Sunday, 21 August 2005 02:09 (twenty years ago)
― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 22 August 2005 14:52 (twenty years ago)
― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 22 August 2005 14:55 (twenty years ago)
― Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Monday, 22 August 2005 17:14 (twenty years ago)
― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 22 August 2005 17:16 (twenty years ago)
― Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Monday, 22 August 2005 17:17 (twenty years ago)
― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 22 August 2005 17:21 (twenty years ago)
― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 22 August 2005 17:35 (twenty years ago)
― Mark C (Markco), Monday, 22 August 2005 17:41 (twenty years ago)
― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 22 August 2005 17:49 (twenty years ago)
I am a sad panda.
― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 22 August 2005 19:15 (twenty years ago)
― Pol Manning-L (Huk-L), Monday, 22 August 2005 19:17 (twenty years ago)
― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 22 August 2005 19:24 (twenty years ago)
― Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Monday, 22 August 2005 20:50 (twenty years ago)
Most of the post-Crisis Levitz was still with Greg LaRocque as I recall, one of the longest-running, and also lamest, Legion artists evar. But it was great when Giffen came back and redesigned everyone's costumes straight away! And then Levtiz had them bitch about it in the dialogue. The final storyline was a bit anticlimactic, esp. because Giffen dropped back to layouts so he could get started on the 5YG series.
― kit brash (kit brash), Monday, 22 August 2005 23:37 (twenty years ago)
And if Delano's Hellblazer run was uneven (although still pretty great at times), the Ennis run was even more so. I just re-read it and I'm not a fan. Although I honestly think that Jenkins might've been the only writer after Delano to really have a grasp on John Constantine's character. Which is not to say that the Jenkins run isn't wildly uneven, as well.
― Deric W. Haircare (Deric W. Haircare), Tuesday, 23 August 2005 19:07 (twenty years ago)
― Huk-L (Huk-L), Tuesday, 23 August 2005 19:16 (twenty years ago)
― Huk-L (Huk-L), Tuesday, 23 August 2005 19:27 (twenty years ago)
― kit brash (kit brash), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 01:44 (twenty years ago)