"Aeon Flux" vs. "Kill Bill"

Oh, and if you're still out there and on our ever-convoluted trail, Peter, what did you think of Tarantino's latest (or any of his work, for that matter)?

I thought Kill Bill 2 was very much in a similar vein... though the characters weren't so much at cross purposes as they misunderstood each other's intentions.

After all, I bet Aeon probably performed a hysterectomy on herself the moment she became a Monican enforcer.

I keep hearing all these good things about Kill Bill 2/the series in general...

All I know is that part 1 was the most disturbing movie I've seen. And not in a good way.

I tried to watch, but the mixture of parody, revenge themes and moral self-righteousness just didn't sit well with me.

That said, Tarantino can redeem himself if he names his next chapter "Kill Beatrix".

I too wonder what Peter makes of the "Tarantino aesthetic". The two filmmakers are in very, very different worlds for me...

I have to agree. Kill Bill 1 was fairly terrible, in my opinion. It's like he just wanted to do insane things with the visuals, terrible things with the story, and be as cliche as possible. There seemed to be no thought at all of a goal or a destination.

Two was exactly the opposite. The first scene is a terribly wrenching, underplayed, well acted ballet of emotions and words. No action at all. Almost no movement. Just the sound of the wind and people talking.

All I could do was stare. It's like he realized a story needed to have people in it before it was a story. The characters all have goals, motivations, direction. The story leads somewhere, involves discussion, and lack of a given good/evil.

As far as I'm concerned, he should have left Vol. 1 on the cutting room floor.

Aw c'mon, Vol.1 had Gogo...

I think you have to think of Vol.1 and Vol.2 as being one movie because thats what they are. Kill Bill's theme of revenge is as constant as are its cinematic variations on that theme. So it seems natural that after half way, by Vol. 2, methods have changed, almost to the point of contradistinction. I found Kill Bill very broad and artsy and cool. But I would reccomend that people still check Vol. 2 if they don't like Vol. 1.

However in terms of Tarantino juxstaposing contradistintive 1st and 2nd halfs: remember Dusk Till Dawn? I thought that movie was great until it sucked...

But yeah, Beatrix and Bill seemed quite similar to Aeon and Trevor. And I always like to see displays of uncanny physical skill and agility between couples.

I agree man, that's not a bad parallel at all. Although, you know, B. and Bill's relationship ended kind of conclusively with B. getting the best of it, and I think that Aeon and Trevor's relationship is more of an eternal struggle, so to speak. I mean, Aeon keeps dying, but she also keeps coming back to life again. So they're basically immortal for the purpose of the show. Hence they will always be around to drive each other nuts. Not so for B. and Bill, sad as it may be.

I'm only responding here now, as I finally just saw Kill Bill 2 a couple of nights ago on dvd. Vol. 1 was such a turn-off (Syra, you expressed my sentiments exactly, once again) that I didn't bother with 2 till now. More of the same, in my opinion, which comes down to overproduced, overhyped, over self-conscious impersonation of genuine, and better, exploitation films made in the 60's and 70's in Japan and Hong Kong for a tiny fraction of what QT required.

If you haven't seen the work of Shunya Ito or Seijun Suzuki, I suppose Kill Bill might satisfy that hankering for a bit of the ol' ultraviolence in retro style. Do yourself a favor, though and see the real deal-- available now on dvd. (though my favorite Scorpion film, the third, Kemono Beya - aka The Scorpion's Sting, isn't out in the U.S.)

Female Convict Scorpion was a series of woman's revenge films by Shunya Ito from Toei in the early 70's. QT borrowed heavily from Ito. Naming his female killers after venomous creatures (Scorpion/Black Mamba); eye-plucking and arm-chopping scenes; Urami Bushi, the Japanese theme song at the end of both Kill Bill volumes is, in fact, the Scorpion theme, sung by Meiko Kaji, the actress who played Scorpion. Also, the showdown between O Ren and the Bride is a blatant homage to Lady Snowblood, another character played by Meiko Kaji.

"Jailhouse 41" is the better of the 2 available. Kemono Beya is, to me, the peak of Ito's crazed style, however.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/104-2908009-7358308

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index%3Ddvd%26field-keywords%3Dlady%252520snowblood%26store-name%3Ddvd/104-2908009-7358308

Recommended Suzuki: Branded to Kill; Youth of the Beast; Tokyo Drifter; Gate of Flesh.

The recent Korean film "Oldboy", is the most harrowing and morally complex revenge tale I've seen, and makes Kill Bill look like a Power Rangers movie. QT probably wouldn't argue, since he gave Oldboy the Grand Prix at this year's Cannes festival. For the record, Oldboy was made for U.S. $2.5 million -- about 5% of Kill Bill's cost. Also, it answers the question: in Pulp Fiction, what if Bruce Willis had chosen the hammer?

Oldboy is out on region 3 dvd, but is slated to be remade with Brad Pitt and Johnny Depp by Universal. So see the original first-- but do NOT read or see anything about it beforehand.

(sorry about the bad link...)

jailhouse 41

prisoner 701

Nifty. Thanks for schooling us Peter.

I'll hit up my Cinefile and see if they have any of those flicks...

Opinions of Oldboy are mixed. I started off liking it (isolation scenes were really well done, and that melee is just beautiful), but after the first hour or so, the plot and characters were going in the wrong direction for me. Also, I felt that after a while, it was just dark for the sake of being dark. As is typical with nightmares, it was gripping to watch, but upon ending felt silly and contrived.

minor

spoilers

The main objection I have with Oldboy is its ethic of chivalry; women are not responsible for their actions, and men have to risk it all to defend their honor. I don't feel that Oh Dae-su caused the girl's suicide in the least; she was supremely messed in the head to begin with, and would have done it /without/ any outside intervention, imho...

Also, I'm curious to see the deleted scenes with the Hypnotist.

It sure isn't a film to warm to, I'll agree. Opinions are mixed.... umm yeah - lots of people hate it. Point being?

I'll talk a bit about my thoughts on Oldboy later, but we're getting ready to record new dialogue for the remastered Aeon dvd boxset this week. Japhet, Gaffney and Mars are helping with the polish. Look for changes (improvements) in both words and pictures. I hope you like it. Also I found original negatives of pencil tests for War and Mirror which will be included in the extras.

/my/ opinion is mixed. Excuse my poor grammar. :p

That's pretty cool that you're re-recording. Though admit it, you want the 'rougher' version to become a collectors item!

Actually, I'd prefer that people tossed their old versions in the fire. Here's a preview- A line that has always bothered me from the Demiurge:

Aeon:
I won't argue over the color of skeletons when they were horses.

M Mars and I finally figured out what it should be. On the new version she says:

Aeon:
I'm not in the habit of arguing over the color of red herrings.

(MUCH better- esp. in context.)

Now now, two versions of a tale are better than one. (what was it you said about authorial intent?)

I, personally, cannot wait to hear the new dialogue.

Interesting... I take it all the old voice actors have returned then? How wonderful, like a ten-year reunion.

I always loved that line from the Demiurge, actually... it always struck my imagination. The new one does roll off the tongue more easily, though.

Also, I'd imagine much more in that episode is going under the knife... it always seemed like your pet project, the one you always wanted to change for the better. Too bad it can't be expanded to an hour...?

By the way, I've read in a gaming mag that the Aeon game is due out this fall. While the previous version seemed inspired by the likes of Doom or maybe Tomb Raider, this new one will no doubt follow the Splinter Cell mode, I suspect. Hopefully it'll be nothing like the pretty-but-poorly-edited Matrix tie-in game.

In the interest of not raising expectations TOO high- the dialog revisions only affect 4 episodes. U or D, Demiurge, Reraizure and End Sinister. Those have always had some readings and wordings that were awkward or out of character. (The other 6 eps stand up pretty well in that regard, IMHO) The only actors being brought back in are Denise Poirier and John Lee. Clavius was recast and redone entirely (by a special guest performer). We also took another shot at the "Dangerboy" scene in Thanatophobia. Since Denise and John were being interviewed for the extras, I decided might as well get them in the booth to redo the lines. A rare opportunity. Thanks mtv home video.

The Demiurge and End Sinister have the most changes, since those 2 had suffered the most meddling from mtv so we're attempting to restore them to reflect our original intent. In the Demiurge, I'm removing VO which had been added at mtv's insistence to play up Aeon's and Trevor's opposing views. Throughout, Aeon kept whining "I don't want to see!" , "I don't want it!", etc. No wonder that most viewers seemed to side with Trevor in that one.

We had a very bizarre flashback experience yesterday while recording. Jack Fletcher and I were sitting there in the studio in the exact spots we had occupied ten years earlier, directing Denise to record some of the same lines we'd done then. It was like we'd never left. Listening to Denise's voice on the old track and matching her new readings was like some alchemical ( or gnostic) rite - like summoning the mythic Aeon through channeling and incantations. Sorry to sound so pretentious, but I swear, it was weird. Jack thought so too.

I'm so pleased with this that I will indulge in belaboring the point just a little. Here's the context. The new line is p e r f e c t.

TREVOR
Then there are the transgressions you never even knew you'd committed. Those are the worst because those you can never forget. All you can do is suspect.

AEON
I’m not in the habit of arguing over the color of red herrings.

It went from:
I won't argue over the color of skeletons when they were horses. (PC)

to:
I won't argue over the color of skeletons when they were herrings. (MM)

to:
I won't argue over the color of red herrings. (PC)

to:
I’m not in the habit of arguing over the color of red herrings.
(rephrased to fit the preexisting animation)

A red herring is a pointless subject to investigate.
The COLOR of a RED herring is doubly pointless.

(Charlize, eat your heart out.)

Actually, to investigate the color of a RED ANYTHING is also pointless.
Therefore, a RED herring becomes TRIPLY pointless.

Well, you've converted me!

I suppose some of us are coming at this from another perspective entirely... Aeon entered my consciousness at a crucial time in my growth. It's like the old Star Wars films (pardon the comparison) in that I saw them so often as a kid that every line, every scene, every shot, is embedded in my head. It's almost like someone rewriting the Bible. Jarring, but in this case, welcome.

Wow, if Star Wars is my "Bible," does that make George Lucas my film God? Yikes.

!

Peter, I know you're more of a Tezuka man, but there is something positively Grant Morrisonesque about these missives. Keep mucking around in the primordial story-stuff; maybe I'll see you there one day.

(P.S.: Clavius was a gas)

Back on the topic of "Oldboy," I completely randomly stumbled across this recent review of it. Haven't seen this yet or read the review, myself, but those of you who have might see it might be interested.

An update -
We finished taping/recording the extras for the dvd boxset. Some of what will be included:

On-camera interview segments with the following:
Howard Baker, Japhet Asher, Peter Gaffney, Mark Mars, Drew Neumann, Denise Poirier, John Lee, Jack Fletcher, Catherine Winder, John Andrews, Peter Chung.

Commentary tracks:

Liquid TV shorts: PC and D Neumann

U or D: PC, J Fletcher, D Poirier, J Asher

Demiurge: PC, H Baker, J Asher

Thanatophobia: PC, M Mars

Isthmus Crypticus: PC, H Baker, J Asher

A Last Time for Everything: PC, M Mars, J Asher, P Gaffney

Chronophasia: PC, H Baker, J Asher, P Gaffney

The Purge: PC, J Asher, P Gaffney, M Mars

3 episodes - Reraizure, Ether Drift Theory, End Sinister will not have commentaries.

Man this is all so intense. I would be speechless but for this paragraph:

"summoning the mythic Aeon through channeling and incantations"-sounds like you both reached the creative alpha wave captured the first time around. Electric.

Cool! I hope they do fix one thing that bugged me about Ether Drift Theory on the VHS release... just before they cut to commercial, they cut out a particularly chilly "Goodbye, Aeon." It was one of my favorite lines, and they inexplicably removed it.

Oh man, I'm so pumped about this, especially hearing the commentaries! Is there a release date yet? Did Drew Neumann contribute anything new other than the interview? I would love to hear some more stuff of his, the Eye Spy collection was such a treat. Who is set to work on the Dark Horse comic? The game seems to be in fairly able hands with the makers of the Bloodrayne, one of the developers posted at the other forum. What an exciting year this will be!