Faggot

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here seems as good a place as any to ask this question... what about the usage of the word faggot, which seems increasingly prevalent again in the last couple years, perhaps in a self-conscious ironicized way as much as anything, but it still is offensive to many it seems? although, interestingly, seems less divisive than calling something 'gay'.

so, where do you stand on using the word faggot, particularly if you are in a country with a large proportion of homophobic people, where being gay is still a big issue?

is it merely reactionary gay-bashing but dressed up in po-mo stylings? or is it a necessary and progressive reappropriation of the term? or is it a controversial and playful reaction to the concept of PC and overly sensitive liberal sensibilities? sort of Vice-like? is it necessary to be part of a culture in order to reclaim or recontextualize pejoratives against it? could this be done with race also?

and what about people who are offended by the term? do they have any validity in that, or should they be worrying about bigger things?

― chrltnldo (gareth), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 18:16 (twenty years ago)

I've cut back on it a ton lately both in real life and online after realizing I was a little bothered by Ian doing it to me.

― Whiskeytown Littlecock (ex machina), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 18:20 (twenty years ago)

what about the British food?

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 18:22 (twenty years ago)

I was told there is a British dessert called Spotted Dick.

― thorJESUHOY (Thor), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 18:24 (twenty years ago)

Monday, 27 January, 2003, 14:42 GMT
Family of faggot fans fly the flag

The Doody family hope to raise profile of faggots

A West Midlands family is playing a central role in the quest to raise the profile of a forgotten British dish - faggots.
The Doody family from Wolverhampton has been crowned The Faggot Family in a national competition, and to kick off their reign they will launch National Faggot Week.

The family will be touring the country extolling the virtues of the dish, which is best-known for its links with the Black Country.

The Doody family were chosen to front the campaign after impressing judges at the Savoy Hotel in London in November.

Faggot facts
Faggots were called "savoury ducks" in the Middle Ages

Faggots were named after the Latin word for bundle

Faggots were originally made with pig's liver and offal

Faggots are now made from pork liver and pork

Fans have published the Good Faggot Guide

They displayed their fanaticism for the delicacy during quizzes, role-plays and mock commercials.

"The nation knows that the Cornish pasty, Yorkshire pudding, haggis and fish and chips are great British dishes, but all too often the faggot is left off that list," said Janet Doody.

Her husband Fred added: "It's unfair because faggots were a British delicacy long before any of the others.

"The great British faggot is full of flavour and a great belly warmer at this time of year."

The family, including Lewis, 13, and Grace, 7, eat faggots twice a week, with mashed potato and mushy peas, and will be launching the awareness campaign on Tuesday at Liverpool University, followed by visits this week to Nottingham, Leeds, Sheffield and Birmingham.

The competition was organised by faggot producer Mr Brain's Faggots.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 18:25 (twenty years ago)

the Doody family:

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38744000/jpg/_38744375_doody300.jpg

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 18:28 (twenty years ago)

also, do you think its increased usage/visibility under bush, is evidence of increased conservatism, or increased anti-establishmentism? ie, WHO is saying faggot, that wasn't before?

― chrltnldo (gareth), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 18:32 (twenty years ago)

also, do you think its increased usage/visibility under bush, is evidence of increased conservatism, or increased anti-establishmentism?

this is assuming an awful lot without any evidence to support the claim.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 18:34 (twenty years ago)

it is! i was wondering what other people thought. i do seem to hear it a lot more than i used to, but then a) im in america more than i used to be, b) i see it more on ilx than i remember seeing it.

have you noticed the prevalence of the word increasing over the last couple years? if not, perhaps i am wrong. it is a general part of my question though, to see if people have noticed it becoming more prevalent or not

― chrltnldo (gareth), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 18:41 (twenty years ago)

I hear it *less* now (college/professional world/noise dudes) than a few years ago (high school).

― Whiskeytown Littlecock (ex machina), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 18:42 (twenty years ago)

perhaps the success of Vice, and associated cultural stuff, is partly to play, either encouraging it, or merely giving it an exaggerated profile?

― chrltnldo (gareth), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 18:43 (twenty years ago)

perhaps i am seeing a higher incidence within a certain social strata, or in a certain ironicized way, than before, rather than in general usage.

― chrltnldo (gareth), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 18:46 (twenty years ago)

no one I know reads Vice

― Whiskeytown Littlecock (ex machina), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 18:46 (twenty years ago)

sub-Momusian at best!

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 18:56 (twenty years ago)

C/D: Assuming that your own personal experience is indicative of "American" trends?

― dean? (deangulberry), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 19:01 (twenty years ago)

"I hear there's this magazine in America, Vice..."

― Whiskeytown Littlecock (ex machina), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 19:03 (twenty years ago)

It's the official magazine of America, no?

― dean? (deangulberry), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 19:06 (twenty years ago)

i apologise for any offence caused, you are right in that my method here is not thorough. i have noticed an upturn in usage of this word in a number of publications/boards etc, and part of the idea of this thread was to find out if my experience was unusual, or if others had noticed this too. the other part was to ask, where i had noticed the word being used (ilx), so as to talk about the usage of it, because it is interesting.

― chrltnldo (gareth), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 19:20 (twenty years ago)

so, does anyone else think there has been any kind of backlash against PC, or rise in the cachet of 'controversial terms' in hipster circles over the last 5 or so years?

― chrltnldo (gareth), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 19:59 (twenty years ago)

only if you're Momus.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 19:59 (twenty years ago)

so, does anyone else think there has been any kind of backlash against PC, or rise in the cachet of 'controversial terms' in hipster circles over the last 5 or so years?

not a backlash against pc, but a definite swing towards the apolitical and decadent anything goes attitudes.

― lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:10 (twenty years ago)

yes, i think the backlash against pc was earlier (90s still, even)? and the swing towards apoliticism and decadence sort of came from that? and that active controversy courting is sort of a natural by product of that?

― weimarian lido (gareth), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:16 (twenty years ago)

Dan Savage (Portland, OR sexual advice-giver)'s column was named "Hey Faggot!" for about 6 years until 1999 when he changed it to "Savage Love". But you know how all gays are always on the cutting edge, you know, he was way ahead of the curve on this one. I say "Yay Faggot!".

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:18 (twenty years ago)

actually, i think he's from Seattle, WA.

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:18 (twenty years ago)

a definite swing towards the apolitical and decadent anything goes attitudes

...which we learned from EUROPEANS! *SHOCK* *GASP*

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:24 (twenty years ago)

I will use the term "fag" occasionally. But mostly when talking with gay boys and after they have used it first.

― tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:31 (twenty years ago)

gareth, if you could peacefully exist in a town with nearly-weekly public displays of assless chaps and leashes leading to/fro pierced genitalia and a couple open-minded music clubs with gloryholes in the mens rooms and the best music classes are held at the local lesbian college where they hold routine "dyke-ins", the sudden recontextualization/reclamation of the word "faggot" is really not an issue to lose sleep over [in my opinion].

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:32 (twenty years ago)

i didnt say i was (or wasnt) offended. but, i am interested in its reclamation. and i'm interested in who is doing the reclaiming. and also, what its like, outside of those centres

― chrltnldo (gareth), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:44 (twenty years ago)

ah, i see what you're getting at:

like a "faux-ggot"?

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 20:51 (twenty years ago)

http://www.queertheory.com/histories/images2/cover_kramer1.gif

― tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 22:55 (twenty years ago)

now there's some good ol' American faggotry.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 23:07 (twenty years ago)

larry clark to thread!

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 23:15 (twenty years ago)

Yeah?

― larry clark? (deangulberry), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 23:25 (twenty years ago)

have you read/seen his books dean?

(ie, "teenage lust", "a perfect childhood", or "tulsa")

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 23:33 (twenty years ago)

when was the last time you used the word 'faggot'? in what context?

― chrltnldo (gareth), Wednesday, 28 July 2004 05:28 (twenty years ago)

on this thread.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 28 July 2004 13:18 (twenty years ago)

ihttp://www.robertriehl.com/Nicolas%20Easter%20Bunny%204-03.jpg

― cutty (mcutt), Wednesday, 28 July 2004 13:48 (twenty years ago)

i don't hear it any more now than before. the term 'fag' seems 'softer' - see it's use in Avenue D's 'Do I look Like A Slut?' as an example. That anecdote about Sid Vicious calling the crowd at one of their ill-faited US gigs 'a bunch of faggots' always makes me laugh for some reason.

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Wednesday, 28 July 2004 14:11 (twenty years ago)

I believe that was actually "a bunch of cowboy faggots" seeing as they were in Texas.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 28 July 2004 14:35 (twenty years ago)

Well dressing like a cowboy is sort of gay (and not in the gay as in stupid way either.)

http://www.orock1059.com/graphics/randyjones.jpg

― tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Wednesday, 28 July 2004 16:04 (twenty years ago)

GYGAX: I have only ever seen Tulsa, which I own.

― dean? (deangulberry), Wednesday, 28 July 2004 16:06 (twenty years ago)

IMO fag:faggot=nigga:nigger

― Daniel DiMAGGIO (Daniel DiMAGGIO), Thursday, 29 July 2004 02:02 (twenty years ago)

IMO wigga:faux-ggot

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 29 July 2004 04:24 (twenty years ago)

IMO nougat != nugget

― pooch portugese (pooch portugese), Thursday, 29 July 2004 06:50 (twenty years ago)

2+2=4

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 29 July 2004 14:57 (twenty years ago)

no, 2 + 2 = ?

(at least according to Bob Seger)

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 29 July 2004 15:03 (twenty years ago)

7 and 7 is!

― Ian c=====8 (orion), Thursday, 29 July 2004 16:57 (twenty years ago)

if 6 was 9

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 29 July 2004 17:51 (twenty years ago)

why is 6 afraid of 7?

― thorJESUHOY (Thor), Thursday, 29 July 2004 18:37 (twenty years ago)

cuz 7-8-9

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Thursday, 29 July 2004 21:49 (twenty years ago)

THERE ARE 4 LIGHTS

― Jean Luc (ex machina), Thursday, 29 July 2004 23:19 (twenty years ago)

I read somewhere a couple of times "Political Correctness" was a term made up by THE RIGHT (dunno who, a newspaper prob) to hassle the menacing forces of the LEFT and anyway yeah it got kinda reclaimed/became more of a force once given a title to cohere around so let's all say "faggot"

― Andrew Blood Thames (Andrew Thames), Monday, 2 August 2004 12:11 (twenty years ago)

I read in the NYT that the new buzzword for latte liberals is "organic"

― Bunzzzzz O)))))))))))))))))) (ex machina), Monday, 2 August 2004 12:15 (twenty years ago)

I'm surprised there's enough hippies to pull that off

― Andrew Blood Thames (Andrew Thames), Monday, 2 August 2004 12:18 (twenty years ago)

http://www.wholefoods.com/

― Bunzzzzz O)))))))))))))))))) (ex machina), Monday, 2 August 2004 12:19 (twenty years ago)

The Term was applied to Theresa Heinz Kerry

― Bunzzzzz O)))))))))))))))))) (ex machina), Monday, 2 August 2004 12:19 (twenty years ago)

The Therm was applied to Theresa****

― thorJESUHOY (Thor), Monday, 2 August 2004 13:25 (twenty years ago)

I HAVE A NALGENE BOTTEL AND I SHIOPS AT WILD OTES

― thorJESUHOY (Thor), Monday, 2 August 2004 13:27 (twenty years ago)

NALGENE IS MY FRIENDSTER

― Typhoon is Coming!!! :O (ex machina), Monday, 2 August 2004 13:33 (twenty years ago)

----i camp a lot as you can see by my northface

― thorJESUHOY (Thor), Monday, 2 August 2004 13:37 (twenty years ago)

inner-city bros be campin'.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 2 August 2004 13:45 (twenty years ago)

http://www.geocities.com/demoncrats666/vegetables.jpg

― thorJESUHOY (Thor), Monday, 2 August 2004 14:11 (twenty years ago)

ihttp://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/docs/2002/110-3/veggieguy.jpg

― thorJESUHOY (Thor), Monday, 2 August 2004 14:11 (twenty years ago)

animal/vegetable/mineral?
http://pages.britishlibrary.net/charles.darwin2/mould_images/4.jpg

― thorJESUHOY (Thor), Monday, 2 August 2004 14:14 (twenty years ago)

http://www.crownrights.com/books/phantom_organic_evolution_sm.jpg

― thorJESUHOY (Thor), Monday, 2 August 2004 14:16 (twenty years ago)

http://evonet.lri.fr/evoweb/images/evoart/penousal-machado/organic-small.jpg

― thorJESUHOY (Thor), Monday, 2 August 2004 14:17 (twenty years ago)

http://www.unstonegrange.co.uk/images/richclare.jpg

― thorJESUHOY (Thor), Monday, 2 August 2004 14:18 (twenty years ago)

"OK, so I may look a little 'ghetto' in this puffy number and I stand out in rural connecticut, but this coat is the biggest, warmest, comfiest coat I have ever had. Awesome for gang bangin' with the young republicans. Respect the 700."

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 2 August 2004 14:27 (twenty years ago)

Nalge (makers of the Nalgene water bottles) makes the best laboratory restraints for bunnies and mice.

― jack cole (jackcole), Monday, 2 August 2004 16:27 (twenty years ago)

http://www.nalgenelabware.com/common/images/products/6500350L.jpg

― thorJESUHOY (Thor), Monday, 2 August 2004 16:39 (twenty years ago)

picture mice in all of these
http://www.nalgenelabware.com/common/images/products/6500500L.jpg

― thorJESUHOY (Thor), Monday, 2 August 2004 16:40 (twenty years ago)

better yet:
http://www.colorado.edu/StudentGroups/animalrights/nalgene.jpg

― thorJESUHOY (Thor), Monday, 2 August 2004 16:43 (twenty years ago)

HAHAHAHA

― thorJESUHOY (Thor), Monday, 2 August 2004 16:43 (twenty years ago)

at work, where we sell a lot of nalgene bottles, it amuses me to imagine telling the customers about the bunnies and watching their self-righteous, prog jaws drop.

― jack cole (jackcole), Monday, 2 August 2004 16:49 (twenty years ago)

I dislike both nalgene and bunnies

― thorJESUHOY (Thor), Monday, 2 August 2004 16:56 (twenty years ago)

A is because once I broke one

B is because of Bunnicula

― thorJESUHOY (Thor), Monday, 2 August 2004 16:56 (twenty years ago)

actually I dislike rabbits because every time I try to catch one they outrun me.

― thorJESUHOY (Thor), Monday, 2 August 2004 16:57 (twenty years ago)

NALGENE BOTTLES ARE MADE FROM MIDEAST OIL WHICH IS MADE FROM THE BLOOD OF IRAQI BABIES

SHOCKING

― Typhoon is Coming!!! :O (ex machina), Monday, 2 August 2004 17:39 (twenty years ago)

http://zanyvg.overclocked.org/shadowgate/burning.gif

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Monday, 2 August 2004 17:45 (twenty years ago)

what about comments about jews?

like, if you were to say jewlry for example?

is that sort of an ironic racism? or, sort of not really racist per se, but making fun of the concept of racism, ie, being in on the joke?

i think that sort of playful semi-racism (which is still only acceptable when targetted in certain directions), like the ironic homophobia, is kind of a combination at attempts at reclamation through playfulness, combined with a post pc-backlash, a sort of courting of controversy.

i'm not in favour or ironic or tongue in cheek racism myself, i'm still finding it difficult to see it as anythign but insidious, and am unsure about ideas of reclamation, unless from within a given group (same as with the faggot thing, i think), but, what say you?

― ---------------------- (gareth), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 13:23 (twenty years ago)

i wanted to make that bold, not italics, but, you get the idea

― --c-har-----ltonl--i--d--o--- (gareth), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 13:25 (twenty years ago)

I'm not sure what I meant, but I love myself a jew -- IAN!

― Typhoon is Coming!!! :O (ex machina), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 13:31 (twenty years ago)

VAGINA

― thorJESUHOY (Thor), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 14:55 (twenty years ago)

LARYNX

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 17:51 (twenty years ago)

I'm not sure what I meant, but I love myself a jew -- IAN!

"johnson" is the most non-jew name ever

― cutty (mcutt), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 17:53 (twenty years ago)

I am friends with a Jewish guy named J3ff Sm!th.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 17:55 (twenty years ago)

IAN'S DAD IS A WASP

― Holy Crap! Typhoon is Coming!!! :O (ex machina), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 17:59 (twenty years ago)

was he bar mitzvah'd?

― cutty (mcutt), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 18:02 (twenty years ago)

my pal J3ff was.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 18:03 (twenty years ago)

you were friends with the frugal gourmet??

― tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 18:17 (twenty years ago)

didn't he3 go down on a kiddy porn beef?

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 18:20 (twenty years ago)

http://www.besottedwithjeffrey.com/fanlisting/images/image_ed.jpg

― Holy Crap! Typhoon is Coming!!! :O (ex machina), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 18:22 (twenty years ago)

ROONEY

― cutty (mcutt), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 18:23 (twenty years ago)

didn't he go down on a kiddie porn beef?

― Holy Crap! Typhoon is Coming!!! :O (ex machina), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 18:24 (twenty years ago)

didn't he go down with tasty corned beef?

― cutty (mcutt), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 18:25 (twenty years ago)

no, this is a different J3ff Sm!th of probably like what 5 million?

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 18:25 (twenty years ago)

not this one either:

http://www.jeffsmith2004.com/images/logo.jpg

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 18:26 (twenty years ago)

two months pass...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/kenjuggle/DCP_2432s.jpg

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 1 November 2004 01:30 (twenty years ago)

Bush is a faggot. So are his supporters

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 1 November 2004 03:45 (twenty years ago)

ten months pass...

The faggot icon craze swept through LiveJournal's gay community in 2004, following intervocalic's rant about the word "faggot" being the worst possible thing one could call a homosexual. In response to this, a troll operating under the e-dentity mediacart created an icon which cyclically flashed the word "FAGGOT!" across a photograph of Userinfo.gif (http://www.livejournal.com/users/intervocalic/info)intervocalic (http://www.livejournal.com/users/intervocalic/).

The subsequent demand for such icons by other gay LJ users was such that JeremyJX and rfjason founded the Community.gif (http://www.livejournal.com/community/faggot_icons/info)faggot_icons (http://www.livejournal.com/community/faggot_icons/) community. Soon, the "faggot icon" became the must-own fashion accessory of the Fall / Winter.

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Wednesday, 21 September 2005 14:59 (nineteen years ago)

four months pass...

i'd never heard of a ghost bike before this thread and then last weekend was walkin through the Loin and saw one. pretty sad

-- team jaxon (jaso...), January 27th, 2006 7:23 PM. (jaxon) (later) (admin)

walking through my loins?

-- cutty (holle...), January 28th, 2006 8:23 PM. (mcutt) (later) (admin)

you're loins are always walking through my mind

-- team jaxon (jaso...), January 28th, 2006 10:15 PM. (jaxon) (later) (admin)

― Special Agent Gene Krupa (orion), Sunday, 29 January 2006 03:19 (nineteen years ago)

Was gygax! talking about Mills College?

― Sundar (sundar), Sunday, 29 January 2006 03:27 (nineteen years ago)

(I really wanted to go there.)

― Sundar (sundar), Sunday, 29 January 2006 03:27 (nineteen years ago)

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