argh: no powers of 2 are divisible by 3 huh.....

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no tech! (ex machina), Thursday, 7 July 2005 18:54 (twenty years ago)

why would a power of 2, a prime, be divisible by 3, a prime

caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Thursday, 7 July 2005 19:04 (twenty years ago)

http://www.parents.org.uk/products/images/mathmagician.gif

Tinman: Set to Self-Destruct (cprek), Thursday, 7 July 2005 19:06 (twenty years ago)

where n is in teh set of whole integers?

(ducks.)
m.

msp (mspa), Thursday, 7 July 2005 19:10 (twenty years ago)

is whole integers a redundant phrase, or is it another way of saying positive integers?

MATH.

Ian John50n (orion), Thursday, 7 July 2005 19:21 (twenty years ago)

jon, caitlin:

http://home.comcast.net/~nspil/Mathnet1.jpg

mark p (Mark P), Thursday, 7 July 2005 19:25 (twenty years ago)

no, you're right ian. i was bein overly explicit.
m.

msp (mspa), Thursday, 7 July 2005 19:32 (twenty years ago)

I thought whole integers included zero (caitlin, where are you?)

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 7 July 2005 19:50 (twenty years ago)

whole include zero and negatives, natural do not.

gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 7 July 2005 19:53 (twenty years ago)

if i remember correctly... this was half a life ago dudes!

gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 7 July 2005 19:54 (twenty years ago)

DIE YOUNG

Ian John50n (orion), Thursday, 7 July 2005 20:02 (twenty years ago)

gygax otm, gygax is always otm!

caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Thursday, 7 July 2005 20:18 (twenty years ago)

I am a master of number theory. Caitlin, do you like closure properties?

no tech! (ex machina), Thursday, 7 July 2005 20:48 (twenty years ago)

http://www.stanford.edu/group/Urchin/GIFS/p2.gif

Anyway, I am trying to realign tempo changes on 32 notes but this sucks if I have fucking triplets.

no tech! (ex machina), Thursday, 7 July 2005 20:49 (twenty years ago)

Now I'm curious -- how do you program triplets on a 32-note sequencer?

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 7 July 2005 21:54 (twenty years ago)

It's called your Samba preset (it's unresolved I know).

gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 7 July 2005 21:55 (twenty years ago)

Uh I mean I am writing the sequencer. It requantizes on every 32nd note. I am still trying to figure out how to deal with triplets sanely.

no tech! (ex machina), Thursday, 7 July 2005 21:56 (twenty years ago)

Ask the bassist of Iron Maiden.

gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 7 July 2005 21:57 (twenty years ago)

Oh, OK (I know jack shit about programming a sequencer, as if that wasn't obvious).

xpost

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 7 July 2005 21:58 (twenty years ago)

No I'm not programming a sequencer. I am making a program that IS a sequencer.

no tech! (ex machina), Thursday, 7 July 2005 22:00 (twenty years ago)

All powers of prime numbers are only divisible by the prime huh....

no tech! (ex machina), Thursday, 7 July 2005 22:01 (twenty years ago)

http://www.apple.com/downloads/dashboard/games/obliquestrategies.html

no tech! (ex machina), Thursday, 7 July 2005 22:31 (twenty years ago)

i'm slightly confused... so when in doubt, i'm just gonna offer a bunch of random suggestions.

1) round the non-two to the nearest multiple of two. approximate. i bet this sounds like shit at lower tempos.

2) real-time shift the sequencer pattern

3) use a short circuit step count sort of thing... so instead of on the 32nd note going back to the 1st note, let them set the step to go back to the first... like on the 30th note, or the 17th. etc...

?
m.

msp (mspa), Friday, 8 July 2005 04:15 (twenty years ago)

I don't know anything about sequencers, but I do know rhythms, and thos suggestions, if I understand them correctly, don't sound like they'd work.

Hurting (Hurting), Friday, 8 July 2005 04:29 (twenty years ago)


problem i was trying to address:

how to fit 33 notes:

123456789012345678901234567890123

a..a..a..a..a..a..a..a..a..a..a..

into 32 slots:

12345678901234567890123456789012
a..a..a..a..a..a..a..a..a..a..a.

and retain a.. without fudgin the count.

solution 2 is really tricky and requires real-time interaction...

a..a..a..a..a..a..a..a..a..a..a.

shifted right on the next to last note after "a." becomes:

.a..a..a..a..a..a..a..a..a..a..a

and the note played gives you the extra "." you need to space the notes. it's an drum machine trick i used to used to get really whacked out shit.

next time you have to again, wait after the last "a" and the first "." etc etc... hard to be consistent but... music ain't easy to play.

the 3rd solution makes more sense because:

12345678901234567890123456789012
a..a..a..a..a..a..a..a..a..a..a.

set to 30 notes length becomes

123456789012345678901234567890
a..a..a..a..a..a..a..a..a..a..

and there's no finger gymnastic insanity at all.

but perhaps i'm totally confused about the problem.
m.

msp (mspa), Friday, 8 July 2005 04:40 (twenty years ago)

damn it.... bullshit non-fixed width fonts fucking my little illustration up.

ah... like you said Hurting... probably a wrong approach anyway.
m.

msp (mspa), Friday, 8 July 2005 04:41 (twenty years ago)

Well, the more I read this thread, I really don't understand what the fuck is going on, so I should probably keep my mouth shut.

Hurting (Hurting), Friday, 8 July 2005 04:53 (twenty years ago)

msp, i fixed your post.

gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 8 July 2005 14:26 (twenty years ago)

thanks gygax!
m.

msp (mspa), Friday, 8 July 2005 14:37 (twenty years ago)

Hmm, that doesn't really make sense for pd.

no tech! (ex machina), Friday, 8 July 2005 14:58 (twenty years ago)

1) round the non-two to the nearest multiple of two. approximate. i bet this sounds like shit at lower tempos.

Yea, if I moved the funademental beat clock to like 128 or 64 notes I think this would be ok. When I am less hungover I will do a little math and see how far out of alignment this would be at various tempos

no tech! (ex machina), Friday, 8 July 2005 15:01 (twenty years ago)

yeah... i was grasping at the straws. all three suggestions made sort of with little to no knowledge of what yer talking about and/or and/or.

m.

msp (mspa), Friday, 8 July 2005 15:11 (twenty years ago)

Ok let's begin: the metronome pd object creates 32nd notes every 75 ms at 100 bpm. Hmm this is plausible.

Quarter notes are 2/3s of a second long. A measure is 8/3 seconds. A 3rd of a measure is 8/9 or ~889 ms long. 889 / 75 = 11 (with remainder).

11*75=825
12*75=900

hmmmm... I think I might want a higher resolution.... Maybe I need a 64th note clock and play notes divisble by 3 on the nearest 64th note.

no tech! (ex machina), Friday, 8 July 2005 15:17 (twenty years ago)

wait, do you have a quantizer or no?

gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 8 July 2005 15:21 (twenty years ago)

I am programming gygax. I have a "metronome" set to tick on every 32nd note. At this time it recallibrates itself for any tempo change. However, since notes based on being divisible by 3 do not line up with stuff divisible by 2, making it a huge pita to reschedule them.

no tech! (ex machina), Friday, 8 July 2005 15:24 (twenty years ago)

Those numbers don't look right ... 1/4 notes are .6 seconds long, a measure is 2.4 sec, and 1/3 measure is .8 sec

75 * 10 = 750
75 * 11 = 825

75 * 21 = 1575
75 * 22 = 1650

So, triplet tones on the 11th and 21st note of the clock are only off by 25 ms, or one-third of a 32rd note. Going to 64 notes would make the resolution twice as good, with only 10 ms error or so, which should be fine.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Friday, 8 July 2005 16:46 (twenty years ago)

Those numbers don't look right ... 1/4 notes are .6 seconds long, a measure is 2.4 sec, and 1/3 measure is .8 sec

Did I mess up that part?


Yea 10 ms error is no big deal since I'm sure there is at least that much error between my midi device and the sound on my computer

no tech! (ex machina), Friday, 8 July 2005 16:52 (twenty years ago)

At 300 bpm the 64th note metronome timer would be firing every 12.5 ms. Is that too fast for pd?

no tech! (ex machina), Friday, 8 July 2005 17:04 (twenty years ago)

depends on the machine, other software, etc.

sounds like one of those things you just have to try. and then search for every optimization you can wriggle if you're coming up short.
m.

msp (mspa), Friday, 8 July 2005 17:41 (twenty years ago)

I'm not really worried about the processing load contributed by this. I am worried that the processing load coupled with the context switch to a kernel context for the interrupt might fuck shit up.

Then again, PD might not use interrupts on intervals so small that the context switch would be dangerous and instead poll a timer register while busywaiting.

no tech! (ex machina), Friday, 8 July 2005 18:13 (twenty years ago)


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