when you want to know what Ned Ragget thinks, do you prefer to read AMG or ILX?

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― Ian John50n (orion), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 22:10 (twenty years ago)

I can't say that this has ever happened.

― Dr. Glen Y. Abreu (dr g), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 22:11 (twenty years ago)

ned appears whereever i hit refresh

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 22:26 (twenty years ago)

*thinks*

― caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 22:32 (twenty years ago)

I find Ned in the Heavens! ;)

― Dr. Glen Y. Abreu (dr g), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 22:34 (twenty years ago)

What a bemusing thread.

― would you please stop screaming? (pr00de), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 23:00 (twenty years ago)

HUZZAH *good thoughts*

― amon (eman), Thursday, 11 August 2005 03:14 (twenty years ago)

i can't find ned's thoughts on allmusic.com. do you think he has a nom de plume? steve leggett maybe?

― caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Thursday, 11 August 2005 03:27 (twenty years ago)

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:s7dnvwvla9xk

reviewing own bootleg comp on allmusic (check the "label") = CLASSIC

― haitch has no respect for artists (haitch), Thursday, 11 August 2005 03:30 (twenty years ago)

caitlin = ned's future wife

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 11 August 2005 06:29 (twenty years ago)

ned's amg reviews are on those lookup console/listening station thingies you find at some music stores.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 11 August 2005 12:34 (twenty years ago)

will you guys be buying "ILM: The Book" or whatever it is they're talking about on that one thread? features not only Raggett, but also Harvell! Matos! Dave Queen! a bunch of other yahoos! they're probably all talking about grime and mixtapes.

― gear (gear), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:24 (twenty years ago)

fuck no.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:27 (twenty years ago)

otm

― gear (gear), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:29 (twenty years ago)

phil freeman's book on free jazz is one of the worst music books i've ever read.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:30 (twenty years ago)

DOOD U EVER READ DAVID LEE ROTHS BOOK?

BECAUSE ITS THE BEST!

― ddb (ddb), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:32 (twenty years ago)

why buy a book about ilmers writing about music when i can buy this:

http://www.taschen.com/media/images/original/va_hist_mens_mags_iii.jpg

― tokyo nursery school: afternoon session (rosemary), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:32 (twenty years ago)

dudes whose posts i see every time i show up here, other dudes whose writing i hate, and a fair amount of overlap. wow what's the catch

― gear (gear), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:35 (twenty years ago)

raggett i like, but he's writing about loveless and i could probably assemble my own essay of his with some judicious stringing together of his posts on the subject

― gear (gear), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:37 (twenty years ago)

i wanna read dlr's book and dirt the motley crue book.

fuck dudes who keep fucking giving all their friends work. GET ONE OUTSIDE THE BOX.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:42 (twenty years ago)

of course i'm going to buy that book. half the people writing in it are great.

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:45 (twenty years ago)

you've never been more wrong! and even the people whose writing i like, i can read for free.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:47 (twenty years ago)

WAIT...THEY ARE REALLY WRITING A BOOK?

JESUS.

― ddb (ddb), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:49 (twenty years ago)

okay, a third easily, then. i like, to varying degrees, darnielle, dayal, frere-jones, harvell (oh noes noize board enemy!), hopper, matos, phillips, seward (hooray noize board hero!), and wolk.

of course you can read those critics for free. i mean, why read any books when everyone's thoughts are on the internet somewhere.

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:50 (twenty years ago)

I LOVE ALT-WEAKLIES!!!

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:52 (twenty years ago)

geeta, seward, matos and wolk are good but you can read 'em elsewhere. harvell thinks lightning bolt sounds like metallica. hopper's a douche-and-a-half (god what terrible taste + hysterical ranting = sucksucksuck). sasha frere-jones was in UI, dude. the worst band ever. i cannot truss' that.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:52 (twenty years ago)

of course you can read those critics for free. i mean, why read any books when everyone's thoughts are on the internet somewhere.

that's just fucking dumb and not really what my point was but if you wanna blow $25 to read ned's take on rage against the fucking machine then you're welcome to.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:53 (twenty years ago)

how 'bout somebody on ilm actually CHALLENGES themselves to read stuff by people they don't know?!??

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:56 (twenty years ago)

i don't really care about ned's writing at all.

hopper is good when she's edited.

sasha is one of the best critics around. i've never heard ui apart from the stereolab collab, seemed okay tho not spectacular. seems like a weird reason to hate a person's writing, tho. i don't like the mountain goats, but i'll happily read darnielle on anything.

i still don't get the "you can read 'em elsewhere" tack. presumably these pieces are new essays and aren't just cobbled together from stray thoughts they have left around the internet like breadcrumbs?

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:58 (twenty years ago)

i'm not actually a fan of hardly any music writing at all. i suppose that's strange.

― gear (gear), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:02 (twenty years ago)

not really.

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:04 (twenty years ago)

it's not weird at all: it rubs me the wrong way to read sasha's opinions on music when it's clear from his own music that he has no taste whatsoever. doesn't seem strange to me at all.

they might be new essays but i doubt there will be much of anything "new" in them, even by people on the list whose writing i like.

hopper is just terrible and not even defensible in the slightest.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:05 (twenty years ago)

have you ever read anything by sfj stencil?

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:06 (twenty years ago)

slocki i have a subscription to the new yorker.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:08 (twenty years ago)

i did like his slint piece ok but esp. since he got picked up by conde nast it's "hip music for ~~dummies~~yuppies." no fucking thanks.

and m.i.a. sucks too.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:09 (twenty years ago)

have you ever even read her music criticism?

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:10 (twenty years ago)

ned and i went to the same junior high school. i guess we are getting married.

― caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:10 (twenty years ago)

like this book is going to have any impact on anything except for ilm and faps

no more arguing

― Dr. Glen Y. Abreu (dr g), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:11 (twenty years ago)

FATE!

xpost dr glen otm as usual.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:11 (twenty years ago)

like 99.9999999999% of books published today have any impact on anything!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:12 (twenty years ago)

unless they're about media bias

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:12 (twenty years ago)

i can't remember a single piece of music writing from recent years that stands out for me as anything special or groundbreaking or exceptionally challenging. i mean i can't stand armond white's POV on cinema but he provides much food for thought, as does a lot of other film writing. i read sfj and most of the others contributing to this and i can see that they're extremely competent, concise writers who provide an occasional one-liner that i like but they don't really seem to energize me like a great writer on any subject should. when the high bar is christgau, though....

― gear (gear), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:13 (twenty years ago)

but i get the point. and honestly i won't be buying this either. (xp)

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:13 (twenty years ago)

i also get stencil's point about reading these people "for free," i mean you can't read the EXACT essays but i don't think i'd want to pay money when so much of these folks's writing is all over the net. maybe that's not far but that's how it works. why buy the cow etc.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:14 (twenty years ago)

although on the other hand if some of these people had a book to themselves (geeta for inst) i'd totally buy it.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:15 (twenty years ago)

i think mainly it's the idea of this book (more people talking about their favourite albums) that puts me to sleep.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:15 (twenty years ago)

WAIT.....UI WERE AWESOME.

― ddb (ddb), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:18 (twenty years ago)

i'd probably buy a book of geeta's, too. i like reading her and matos's stuff on dance music since they actually seem to, like, go out and dance, not write about shit they heard while downloading files in their mom's basement.

xpost - yeah, how about people write about albums they HATE? that might be interesting.

dude, ddb, they BLEW CHUNKS

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:18 (twenty years ago)

Ned's piece:

Isn't Anything was good enough to inspire an entire scene of My Bloody Valentine soundalikes, *sigh* but Loveless' greatness proved that the band was inimitable. After two painstaking years in the studio and nearly bankrupting their label Creation in the process, the group emerged with their masterpiece, which fulfilled all of the promise of their previous albums. *much merriment* If Isn't Anything was the Valentines' sonic blueprint, then Loveless saw those plans fleshed out, in the most literal sense: "Loomer," "What You Want," and "To Here Knows When"'s arrangements are so lush, they're practically tangible. Heavens! ;) With its voluptuous yet ethereal melodies and arrangements, Loveless intimates sensuality and sexuality instead of stating them explicitly; Kevin Shields and Bilinda Butcher's vocals meld perfectly with the trippy sonics around them, suggesting druggy sex or sexy drugs. Rah! From the commanding "Only Shallow" and "Come in Alone" to breathy reflections like "Sometimes" and "Blown a Wish," the album balances complexity and immediately memorable pop melodies with remarkable self-assurance, given its difficult creation. But Loveless doesn't just perfect the group's approach, it also hints at their continuing growth: "Soon" fuses the Valentines' roaring guitars with a dance-inspired beat, while the symphonic interlude "Touched" suggests an updated take on Fripp and Eno's pioneering guitar/electronics experiments. Rah! These glimpses into the band's evolution make Shields' difficulty in delivering a follow-up to Loveless even more frustrating, but completely understandable — the album's perfection sounded shoegazing's death-knell and raised expectations for the next My Bloody Valentine album to unreasonably high levels. Though Shields' collaborations with Yo La Tengo, Primal Scream, J Mascis, and others were often rewarding, they were no match for Loveless. *amazed* However, as My Bloody Valentine fans — and, apparently, Shields himself — will attest, nothing is. *goodness* ;)

― Dr. Glen Y. Abreu (dr g), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:20 (twenty years ago)

"Ned's piece"

― ddb (ddb), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:22 (twenty years ago)

xpost - yeah, how about people write about albums they HATE? that might be interesting.

BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR, DUDE.

http://www.valleyadvocate.com/binary/78542-273-1/life-3449.jpeg

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:22 (twenty years ago)

clearly, there should be a law prohibiting derogatis from like doing anything.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:23 (twenty years ago)

i don't see why this should have a measured effect on thoughtful criticism. if you do go out and dance, perhaps you can bring a different, useful angle to your criticism, but i don't think mom's-basement criticism is any less valid. it seems like you're ascribing an intention to dance music (music to be danced to) that doesn't describe how plenty of people actually experience it.

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:26 (twenty years ago)

yeah but well.. i'm kind of on the fence here, key word in stencil's post is "seems"

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:26 (twenty years ago)

slocki kind of OTM about the boringness of a book of people's favorite albums, though. although i do think the 33 1/3 series is pretty neat, just because it gives people space to expand upon the usual rote thoughts.

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:27 (twenty years ago)

yeah... i kinda agree but to be honest i can't imagine ever reading one of those 33 1/3 books.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:28 (twenty years ago)

say more about "seem," slocki.

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:28 (twenty years ago)

H, you need to talk to DDB about UI and schedule the intervention or schedule some medical examinations for I fear he may have fallen off his bike one too many times. Wearing a helmet while riding (or, in some cases, walking) is crucial for safety for some.

― Cornelius J. Brosnan (Grodd), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:29 (twenty years ago)

dance music is for dancing otherwise it wouldn't be called dance music.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:29 (twenty years ago)

yeah well whatevs to that.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:30 (twenty years ago)

John Stuart Mill should have written music criticism.

― Cornelius J. Brosnan (Grodd), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:30 (twenty years ago)

COLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! where u been?

THE LAST Ui RECORD WAS PRETTY GREAT.

― ddb (ddb), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:31 (twenty years ago)

wtf other kinds of music isn't called "listening music." it's not like i'm ascribing an "intention" to it that isn't already in the fucking name!

anyway, no matter what kind of music it is, i like reading stuff from the perspective of someone inside, usually, as opposed to bullshit anthropological "lookit the natives and their silly rituals" crap.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:32 (twenty years ago)

yeah but most dance music is MADE in people's mom's basements!! the basement is just as inside as the club!!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:33 (twenty years ago)

i mean i DO kinda half-agree with you but honestly i am too hungry to explain wtf i'm talking about!!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:34 (twenty years ago)

that doesn't matter, really. dudes don't write bangers to listen to in their basement.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:34 (twenty years ago)

IM HUNGRY TOO...LETS LOCK UP THE THREAD AND GET BURRITOS!

― ddb (ddb), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:34 (twenty years ago)

MAN, THIS BACKGROUND IS TRES CREPES!!

― ddb (ddb), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:35 (twenty years ago)

i so want a burrito.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:36 (twenty years ago)

LUNCH BREAK!!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:36 (twenty years ago)

no burritoville near matadork hq.

also, can't go on break until boss gets back.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:37 (twenty years ago)

well how long are we going to have to wait?

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:39 (twenty years ago)

another 20?

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:39 (twenty years ago)

so if i enjoy listening to superpitcher while i'm falling asleep, that's not a valid aesthetic experience, because the music is "meant" to be danced to? pleasure is pleasure.

i mean, cough syrup is "meant" to alleviate people's coughs, but that hasn't stopped a bunch of people from using it to get fucked up.

vinyl records are "meant" to be listened to, but christian marclay uses them as sculptural objects.

et cetera.

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:40 (twenty years ago)

anyway, i'm going to kramer's health food store for a spinach pie. or maybe a mock curried chicken sandwich.

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:41 (twenty years ago)

any listening experience is a valid one, dude. i just don't necessarily want to READ YOUR BULLSHIT MEANDERING CRAP WRITING about all of your listening experiences, dig?

i mean come the fuck on jaymc, do you wanna keep playing dumb all day long or actually comprehend what i wrote?

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:42 (twenty years ago)

No.

― Cornelius J. Brosnan (Grodd), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:45 (twenty years ago)

i just don't necessarily want to READ YOUR BULLSHIT MEANDERING CRAP WRITING about all of your listening experiences, dig?

no, no, that's totally fair. this is just one of my pet peeves, i guess. not with you, but with anyone who suggests there's a right way and a wrong way to experience art. (not that you're saying this, exactly.) so perhaps i'm quick to attack. i like reading about lots of different aesthetic experiences.

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:47 (twenty years ago)

there are right and wrong ways though, there are multiples of each. a relativistic "oh it's all good there is no right or wrong" attitude, while probably hip and "postmodern" (more like a grave misreadng of postmodernism), is no way to live in the world, i think.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:57 (twenty years ago)

hmmm.

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 11 August 2005 17:02 (twenty years ago)

there is probably some truth to that. but it is complicated, i think.

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 11 August 2005 17:11 (twenty years ago)

hstencil so OTM about sfj and this whole bloggy/diary way of writing about music -- the "welcome to my head" approach. I never even heard of UI till he started writing for the NYer...listened to one of their albums last year and it was like hearing somebody getting a bass-guitar lesson...

but hey Im just an over 40 semi-retired hack babyboomer pothead wtf do I know about anything that's happened after 1979 anyway

THANK YOU FOR MAKING MY DAY carry on

― m coleman (lovebug starski), Thursday, 11 August 2005 17:27 (twenty years ago)

blogs and christgau are a couple of the worst things to happen to music writing

― gear (gear), Thursday, 11 August 2005 17:35 (twenty years ago)

>why no Europeans?
A few reasons. 1) I don't know many European writers (don't read any non-US music mags besides The Wire and, occasionally, Mojo [mostly when there's a good CD stuck to the front]), so couldn't judge whether their work was of sufficient quality. 2) I'm in charge of paying contributors, and it's a pain in the ass to pay people in foreign countries/currencies. 3) There are unbridgeable cultural and philosophical gaps between US and UK when it comes to pop/rock/whatever music, and I am so totally America-centric in my POV that I wouldn't be able to give non-US writers a fair shake as an editor.

-- pdf (newyorkisno...), August 11th, 2005 11:06 AM.

― gear (gear), Thursday, 11 August 2005 17:43 (twenty years ago)

I don't know anything about "Christgau" except I see the name on ILM all the time.

Good or Bad?

― PHOIOEI (blastocyst), Thursday, 11 August 2005 17:44 (twenty years ago)

http://us-p.vclart.net/vcl/Artists/Todd-Marcel-Little/OtherFurs/fullthrottle.jpg

WHICH ONE IS JIZZ HARMELL?

― I'm Hi, Jared Fogle (ex machina), Thursday, 11 August 2005 17:47 (twenty years ago)

sf/j doesn't do the bloggy/diary way of writing about music. that's one of the things i like about him. (although i like the diary way, too, fwiw.)

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 11 August 2005 17:51 (twenty years ago)

That's like Hieronymus Bosch with furries.

Anyway, HRAVEL is probably a toss-up between the jackal flipping the bird and the white, bitter (blue balled?) reindeer on the far right.

― as it clung to her thigh I started to cry (pr00de), Thursday, 11 August 2005 18:06 (twenty years ago)

This is so ILM. Faygz.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 11 August 2005 18:28 (twenty years ago)

jaymc and hpencile are to blame

― Dr. Glen Y. Abreu (dr g), Thursday, 11 August 2005 18:29 (twenty years ago)

The problem (for me, at least) with the 33 1/3 series is most of them are about records I have no desire to listen to. I liked the Abba one, but I've always liked Elisabeth Vincentelli's reviews.

― tokyo nursery school: afternoon session (rosemary), Thursday, 11 August 2005 18:37 (twenty years ago)

What's scaring me is the people pitching chapters on my parody thread. Although I'd probably rather read that book than this one.

― k/l (Ken L), Thursday, 11 August 2005 20:39 (twenty years ago)

This is so ILM. Faygz.

my bad. sorry, "kthxbye"

― m coleman (lovebug starski), Thursday, 11 August 2005 20:53 (twenty years ago)

I wonder if my reviews are still up. *checks AMG* Yup. Opinion unchanged.

-- Ned Raggett (ne...), November 6th, 2003 9:52 PM. (Ned)

― amon (eman), Sunday, 14 August 2005 01:11 (twenty years ago)

if that's not the goofiest example of self-endorsement, i don't know what is.

― amon (eman), Sunday, 14 August 2005 01:25 (twenty years ago)

― Ian John50n (orion), Sunday, 14 August 2005 01:37 (twenty years ago)

huh?

― amon (eman), Sunday, 14 August 2005 02:42 (twenty years ago)

the nurse is topless.

― Ian John50n (orion), Sunday, 14 August 2005 02:46 (twenty years ago)

How can you tell?

― pr00de: secure the hillock (pr00de), Sunday, 14 August 2005 04:15 (twenty years ago)

*bemused*

― amon (eman), Sunday, 14 August 2005 04:26 (twenty years ago)

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