i want. i want this. i want this thing.

http://www.vincent-tac.de/pic/big/SV236front_3.jpg

http://www.vincent-tac.de/pic/big/STU2front_3.jpg

http://www.vincent-tac.de/pic/big/LS310wrechts_3.jpg

http://www.vincent-tac.de/pic/big/LS112front3.jpg

http://www.vincent-tac.de/pic/big/KHV111_front_3.jpg

http://www.vincent-tac.de/pic/big/PHO111_front_3.jpg

http://www.vincent-tac.de/pic/big/TAC88_3.jpg

http://www.needledoctor.com/core/media/media.nl?id=3543&c=ACCT106601&h=47a85239c4ba8f530666

http://www.needledoctor.com/core/media/media.nl?id=1912&c=ACCT106601&h=16fb93263ecb15d27f77

http://www.needledoctor.com/core/media/media.nl?id=20&c=ACCT106601&h=904d9d6e133e7fc6a360

http://www.needledoctor.com/

even though i never buy anything there.

heh. i wish there was ilx graemlins.

I love audiophile shit.
it makes me feel smart....because I don't own it.

I want...a baseball league...that sucks.

I want... an army of Osakan whores. Not to service me, but to fight Big Wars for me.

I want... cocaine. The drink. In Super Soakers.

I wasn't talking about tube distortion, they're jsut inneficient and non-linear.

and i used to draw sketches of cities that FLOATED ON MAGNETS, just because that would be cool. right?

i just want to not be in debt -- that's how lame my "dreams" are today!

http://stereophile.com/reference/406howard/index1.html

even though triodes are less powerful than other tubes as output tubes, triodes are desirable because their transfer (amplifying) characteristic is inherently linear, so they can be used with little or no negative feedback, whereas other types of output tubes (tetrodes and pentodes) are inherently less linear, so they require more negative feedback.

But there are complications. A triode’s transfer characteristic is truly linear (straight) only for a portion of its operating range, and beyond that it gently curves in a nonlinear (non straight) fashion. Tetrode and pentode output tubes, are made linear by feedback, up to the point of clipping, at which point the sound usually turns so ugly that every listener is instantly warned to back off on the volume control, the result being that tetrode and pentode output tubes are usually not listened to in their nonlinear regions, and are heard only in their linear regions (as created by feedback); since tetrode and pentode tubes can put out plenty of power, there is usually no rationale for pushing them into their ugly sounding clipping region. In stark contrast, triodes are often listened to in their nonlinear regions. Because the triode’s transfer characteristic curves gently outside its linear region, there is no sudden onset of ugly sounding clipping. Instead, the sound simply starts becoming slightly dirty, grundgy, and fuzzy -- imperceptibly so at first, then gradually more and more noticeably as the music gets louder.

If they were truly linear, there would be absolutely no advantage to using them over solid state amplification, which IS truly linear, less expensive, and higher power output with less power consumption.

And by linear I mean 20-20k flat response. This guy seems to be under the impression that non-linear=distorted ala clipping.
That is false.

In any case, audiophile things are generally scams.

http://www.geocities.jp/freak_audio/dragon1.jpg

http://www.allegrosound.com/Nak_Dragon-CT_7_x.jpg

http://www.audioinnovationen.de/assets/images/Nakamichi-Dragon-RE.-Detail.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valve_sound

http://www.audioacoustics.co.uk/wavac/power%20amp/Resources/sh833.jpeg

http://info.detnews.com/dn/joyrides/1998/class/48tucker.jpg

Also that valve sound article points out the fact they are not linear and the attack is incorrect to the original.
BARF.

I'm sorry, I use a tube guitar amp because the fact is that the electric guitar sounds like shit to begin with. The EM Induction transducers(pickups) are inefficient, generally have alot of crossover distortion of the tone produced, and are wholly innacurate etc.
The coloration by tubes causes alot of these limitations to be covered up.

HOWEVER, when playing back recorded material or mixing mic'ed instruments/vocals accuracy is far more important to me.
I only use EQ on my reciever sparingly, and that's only because I can't fit my good speakers in this room.

I read a review of some $500/unit speaker+sub setup. It may have been more than that, actually... In any case, they were totally non-linear in frequency response, low efficiency, and the crossover point between the sub and mains was like 10 dbs down from the average(again, it was non-linear to begin with).
Same magazine, same issue; the reviewed a setup that cost less than half that. It was almost totally flat in frequency response, far more efficient, and the crossover was perfect.

thankfully, the first one got a mediocre review, and the second was glowing.

There is never anything "correct" about recorded sound and playback in the first place!

The article seems to be syaing that triode tubes are basically close enough to being linear:

The triode, despite being the oldest signal amplification device, also has the most linear transfer characteristic, and thus requires little or no negative feedback for acceptable distortion performance.

Tetrode and pentobe tubes achieve something close enough to linearity through negative feedback, I guess. The point is whether the lack of EXACT LINEARITY in really good tube amp setups involves any negatives. I would be interested in seeing what the arguments would be about what, sonically, those negatives involve.

Solid state is more accurate, and thus BETTER for playing back recorded material ACCURATELY.
using tubes is comperable to having an EQ and compressor setup attached to your Hi-Fi.

I prefer accuracy to some kind of idea of coloration that's pleasant. If the recorded material is already pleasant in the same way, what will tubes do other than make things blurry?

So you think that you can essentially reproduce valve sound by EQ-ing something played through a transistor amp?

Accuracy to the waveform of the recording is, I suppose, an issue with playing compact discs. But what about playing records that have pressing issues and deterioration issues on machines with variance from needles, cartridges, etc.? There is never a single explicit waveform that is the correct one for a particular recording.

In any case, even with playing CDs, I am not aware that the lack of absolute accuracy with tubes is necessarily significant.

Back on point:
The valves in the signal patth FURTHER alter the signal that's already altered by the choice of players and cartidges(though arguably there ARE more/less accurate setups. One simply has to compare master tapes of various recordings to the playback).

I never claimed that an EQ would change the sound to match tubes. What I was saying is it's a comperable CONCEPT.
Mess with the dynamics and frequency response, and you've colored the signal.
If I'm listening to a recording, I want to hear what was recorded.

Also, CDs played back on any machine are less accurate than an LP played back on a mediocre player, in my experience.
The aliasing that goes on in the 16/44.1 format is...gross.
I've run several tests in recording/sound generation programs.
While one can claim 44.1 gets you all the way to 20k, the aliasing the SLIGHTEST AMOUNT above that sends a sweep into something that resembles dropping a wireless mic into a bag of pots and pans and throwing it down the stairs.
The point being that aliasing is already going on well before the 'maximum' is reached. it's visible and audible(wolf tones) in a sine sweep.

You never will.

The valves in the signal patth FURTHER alter the signal that's already altered by the choice of players and cartidges

Yes, and was already altered by the microphone, the mixing board, the magnetic tape or computer, etc. What about an album that was recorded with a valve mixing board? You will never hear what they heard in the studio using a transistor hi-fi!

There are plenty of flat-response amps, and good speakers may be hard to find, but they're not impossible to find. The hardest part is getting the info off of the media.
With the advent of DVDAudio, it's no longer a pipe dream to have purely accurate recordings that vary little to none player-to-player.

"You will never hear what they heard in the studio using a transistor hi-fi!"
DUH.
I'm talking about the RECORDING, not the PLAYERS.
I want to hear what was RECORDED. THE RECORDING.
THE RECORD
THE CD
THE DVD
THE TAPE
THE DAMNED FILE(S)!

THE WAVEFORM ON THE MEDIA TRANSFERED ELECTRONICALLY WITH MINIMAL COLORATION THROUGH SEVERAL ELECTRONIC DEVICES INTO THE AIR SO IT CAN ENTER MY EAR CANAL, VIBRATE MY TYMPANIC MEMBRANES, AND STIMULATE NERVES THAT THEN SEND ELECTROCHEMICAL SIGNALS TO MY BRAIN.

If the album was recorded on a valve mixing board(must be damned old, or damned...weird) then what would be the purpose of playing it back on valve kit? To make it all mushy and gross?

Also, there's not neccesarally any coloration that happens in a computer. If you use a high enough sample rate(96khz is good enough)alasing begins well outside the audible range of even golden-ears.
Most inputs on quality A/Ds are flat response. Even cheap ones are damned close, because IT'S FUCKING EASY TO DO WITH TODAYS GEAR.

SS is more accurate to the signal put into it.
What goes in comes out the same, but louder/a different impedence.

These are FACTS.
Things that can be measured by equipment.

You've made no point, but you have managed to:
Put words in my mouth
split hairs
use circular logic

Please don't do these things.
They make me upset because they confuse me. IE, "Why on earth is this person doing this?!"

That was the only way I could keep myself from locking the thread due to derailment from AWESOME STUPID STUFF I WANTS topic.

1) Tiny cow larynx produced moos would be the awesome.
2) Miniature stampedes.
3) Valid reason to plant grass on my floor, and wander around barefoot in grass during MN wintertime.
4) Easy to make, self-replenishing source of bite-size hamburger.

I have spent several years thinking about this, and am glad to finally have the appropriate forum to share it in.

What occurs to me is this: Are we not saying that the difference between tube and transistor amplification cannot be measured in terms of frequency output? Because that would account for the fact that you cannot EQ a transistor amp to make it sound like a tube amp. So, if the differences are not frequency output, then what are they?

I am a believer in the relevance of so-called vague terms to describe sound like "warmth." Of course a tube amp is going to sound warmer because IT ACTUALLY IS WARMER. So if the difference in sound is not a matter of frequency output, then maybe it has to do with TIMBRE, yes? Tube amps and transistor amps are merely styles of amplifying signals with different timbral qualities. Neither of these styles is "correct."

If the album was recorded on a valve mixing board(must be damned old, or damned...weird) then what would be the purpose of playing it back on valve kit? To make it all mushy and gross?

No. The point is that listening to a record with a tube amplifier would, you would think, be more like listening to the master tape through a tube mixing board in the studio. (I don't know the history of studios and when transistor consoles became more commonplace.)

The reason I said "You never will" is because you made the statement, "If I'm listening to a recording, I want to hear what was recorded." When you listen to a recording, you cannot hear what was recorded. Rather, you hear the recording of that sound. So what you were really saying is "If I'm listening to a recording, I want to hear the recording."

I understand your point about flat-response amps (though you yourself seemingly admitted that tube amps can have a fair degree accuracy, yes?) But, as I've said, I'm not convinced that the timbral quality of a transistor amp is the "correct" one or, again, that the lack of absolute linearity with tubes necessarily makes much of a difference wrt accuracy.

WAIT THIS IS UNLOCKED NOW

haw!!

http://www.vincent-tac.de/pic/big/LS310wrechts_3.jpg
This speaker is kind of steampunk?

These are FACTS.
Things that can be measured by equipment.

These are JARVIK.
Things that can be measured by evil.

http://thenonist.com/images/uploads/GABBGABBA.jpg

http://www.terrierman.com/panda-babies-16.jpg

http://www.elblogsalmon.com/images/2006/12/nintendo_wii_1.jpg

lol dan

Some dude lost 9 lbs in 6 weeks playing Wii Sports!

fools don't know how to spend money

http://www.eurocopter.com/site/FO/scripts/siteFO_contenu.php?lang=EN&noeu_id=10139&page_id=935

^^ money

You've made no point, but you have managed to:
Put words in my mouth
split hairs
use circular logic

Please don't do these things.
They make me upset because they confuse me. IE, "Why on earth is this person doing this?!"