rolling (non-millenials) grabbing the brass ring 2015

notime: ummm... i presume japanese wrestling has had cool heels. Steve Austin turned at WM13 18 years ago, (and despite wwe programming me to think he was the first but he couldn't have been) and thats nearly two decades for Japan and its 3 major promotions to do it since. Or way before.

i need to get up on that njpw steez but im still far behind on everything else. and lol i was thinking of maybe going back and trying to watch a lot of the roh glory days if i get the chance to. shows how interested i am in mania 31 i guess.

(xpost) I only got back into pro wrestling last year (after like... 15 years of following it VERY peripherally thru friends who were still engaged) and the reason I did was NXT. I've since tried to watch Raw and sometimes even Smackdown but it occurred to me that A) I'm not enjoying a lot of that time and B) I only have so many gd hours a week to watch this stuff. So basically I watch NXT, PPVs and Youtube clips (from anything -- njpw, roh, random indies) when bored. I thought I should try to follow the whole "universe" but seriously 6 hours a week? No thanks.

This will become more complicated once the amazing crop they have down there starts getting "promoted." I wasn't watching when Bo, Emma, Cesaro, etc. were on the show so I haven't had to deal with this scenario yet. Kinda terrified at having to upgrade to the big fat shows to keep following Zayn but I guess I can just fast forward to his parts or whatever.

That said the 5m video packages on PPVs pretty much tell you everyhthing you need to know for the PPV, which is telling of the RAW bloat.

Tried Lucha U but it didn't grab me. NJPW is fun as hell, LOVED Wrestle Kingdom, might try to seek more of that out if I find myself having the time.

nxt is really the only thing i watch every week - i've watched some chikara ppv, went to a live show (and i'd go again), lucha underground i followed up to + thru the rumble they did to crown the champ but haven't really followed since that week.

the cage stuff since the rumble has been super fun on lucha underground. its like cage is big corporate wwe and puma is the small try hard mexindie. seems appropriate he even hits an f5 at one point.

I pretty much just watch old things now, don't even try to keep up with the current product in wwe, I'm not even checking recaps at this points. As you say, big 4 ppvs are he only thing I go out of my way to watch unless they book a match for another that tabs my attention ( and how often does that happen these days?). I will still check out individual matches if I hear that they're especially good. Does tna even still exist? Who are their top stars now? MVP?

Mostly I tend to just grab stuff from xwt classics and watch that, got some good DVD box sets on bruiser brody, nick bockwinkel and Harley race from there which I've been enjoying. Watching Harley race hoss the fuck out of dudes is at least 15x more entertaining than anything the wwe is offering these days.

Watched and loved Wrestle Kingdom, like every other fan that was new to NJPW I've developed a bit of a mancrush on shinsuke nakamura.

Apologies for dodgy spelling, autocorrect on this phone is unforgiving

do wwe announcers know that they're announcing matches for "one fall" and not "windfall"? other orgs don't mumble it quite like wwe announcers do.

Sami Callihan's entrance music should be vaporwave

just finished Rivals - wow intense

Balor v Itami was the match of the night; I'm sure Zayn and Owens would agree. Also, I see what they did there with the title match: Kevin Owens won by KO because *that's what his T-shirt says*

Balor v neville

balor neville was crazy. sasha banks is the best. she looked so happy to win. i really hope sami is really good at acting and wasn't concussed. 6 powerbombs or whatever, fuuuck. steen gave the best vader performance in forever*. i'm gonna look back in 10 years time and say they are my favourite period in wrestling. like possibly better than pre-hogan 93/94 wcw or 97/98 wwf.

i cant really figure out a realistic/polite way to say 'i wish vince never has anything to do with these guys but i still want them all to make it to the best wrestlemania ever' because the only way that happens in reality is vince dying or getting seriously ill.

*unless you count brock, but brock is brock

if you watch the replay, sami tucked his head when he hit the ramp - i'm sure he's fine (alsothey sent him to abu dhabi with the main roster this weekend)

really loved those last three matches. can't imagine how they're gonna fuck up balor eventually, but i have faith they'll find a way - it's wwe creative after all

notime: ummm... i presume japanese wrestling has had cool heels. Steve Austin turned at WM13 18 years ago, (and despite wwe programming me to think he was the first but he couldn't have been) and thats nearly two decades for Japan and its 3 major promotions to do it since. Or way before.

I assume you're right. New Japan ran the original NWO-style angle that Bischoff stole for WCW, so maybe they were the first? It definitely didn't happen in All Japan, they were super old-school.

I really need to start watching NXT. With every passing special I feel like I'm missing out on something huge. I've caught some matches here and there but haven't followed regularly. Lately I've been on a Japan kick, with recent New Japan and re-watching old All Japan and NOAH matches from the days when I used to buy comp tapes from tape traders.

looking back on it in hindsight, the long-term development of the sami zayn character over the last 18 months has been kinda amazing - here you have this guy who's just a natural heroic babyface, never sacrificing his morals to win the title, always getting betrayed and screwed by cesaro/dallas/kidd/neville's opportunism, and then finally reaching the top...only for his "best friend" (and blood rival, obviously, but ROH is non-canon even though everybody knows the backstory) to screw him over by being the most opportunistic of all. this feud is going to be so awesome.

i don't always watch the weekly NXT tv, but the builds to the specials are always incredible. just such a well-booked, enjoyable promotion.

i actually made oscar scorecard style sheets for my buddies when we watched Rival, incl. who will win, by pin/sub/dq/"other", with some funny prop-style questions in there too ("who will cry first?" with the choices: zayn, owens, me, my buddy or my other buddy; when will crowe's video show up; will the dubstep cowboys cut an awkward grinning promo post-match; stuff like that) and for some reason i wrote OWENS - OTHER for that match and wrote "KO" beside it... everyone was like "holy shit will, how did you call that" and i was like "I THOUGHT I WAS BEING FUNNY"

tbf it was tko but they decided i should get it

word from the recent tapings is that NXT is about to get real weird.

Balor v neville

I'm sorry, I have a cold.

i've never been as excited for a RAW episode as i am for tnite's NXT

fucking hell solomon crowe looks like shit. fake tan midget in a taz onesie and a bad studded leather jacket with a neck beard and shit my chemical romance hair?

Yeah, well they jobbed Parker out to him, right?
On the other hand, I am pretty interested in Rhyno's return and the possibility of Samoa Joe getting an NXT run.

Samoa Joe seems like one of the only potential people left big enough to debut on the main roster, if he'd lose a bit of weight and showed commitment, right? Him, Angle... Yeah I guess its just Angle left now.

CJ Parker jobber to all new débutants is maybe my favourite gimmick in wrestling atm bar bayley.

I did not like the end: "we now return to your regularly scheduled program."

So you're using your elite hacking/smashing skills to... make sure the show runs correctly?

That was a pretty uniformly shit PPV. Tons of blown spots, people completely out of their depth, and the highlight was a promo. Ugh.

that bad huh? i picked the oscars.

(also bad)

Rusev v. Cena was good.

Reigns vs Bryan was really good, but I'm not sure why fans are supposed to accept Bryan's endorsement of Reigns when they wouldn't accept the Rock's. It's no different from the Rumble -- they're being totally transparent in trying to manipulate fan reactions rather than just letting people cheer whoever they want. They had Brock backstage at RAW yesterday and didn't use him ... WTF??

it's actually kind of impressive how quickly they managed to kill bryan

Yeah, that meltzer quote doing the rounds about how they've fucked up basically everyone on the roster barring cena, orton and the part timers is otm, you gotta wonder how bad shit is gonna get in the post wm lull when lesnar, taker, sting and HHH have gone on their way and you're getting 20 minute roman reigns main events on every show. Fastlane doesn't augur well.

could make a very good argument that the "creative" side of WWE has never been worse in 2015

As someone who has literally only watched the Royal Rumble and the 3way, is it worse than 1995? 1995 surely had nothing as good as Lesnar-Rollins-Cena, but it also didn't have the fucking Big Show & Kane main event equivz nearly 20 years after they were popular (Lawler and Backlund maybe?)

Roman Reigns vs Rusev for the WWE title at Summerslam could theoretically be a fucking shitty main-event match I suppose? But then again nah, nothing could be as bad as Diesel-Mabel.

But the thing is, in 1995 what had they got work with? I mean ok, they really weren't making the best of the Harts, Michaels, Ramon by having Diesel main-event every month against Sid/Davey Boy/Mabel/whoever. WWE's current roster so stacked, they could be putting out a great product if anyone gave a shit and they weren't trying so hard to stop anyone from ever looking bad that they never let anyone look any good either.

1995 might have been worse from a purely qualitative standpoint. idk, the year is young yet and you know that Bryan / Ziggler / Rollins / Ambrose are gonna keep having good matches against the majority of opponents (if they're allowed to, gotta think the focus will shift to some of them post-WM when the roster thins out). So there will probably be redeeming features? But yeah, this is certainly the least interested I've been in things since that time The Miz had a WWE title feud with Jerry Lawler and Michael Cole started commentating from within a plexiglass box.

But it's all ok guys, the entire G1 Climax tournament from last year is up on Dailymotion in HD and it is awesome beyond the dreams of men (I am new to puroresu btw)

I don't think I've watched a whole Raw since The Miz & R-Truth power couple made me give up. It really does seem crazy they have such an insane depth of talent (Bryan! Rollins! Ziggler! Wyatt! Harper! Ambrose! Cody! Rusev! John fucking Cena! Brock fucking Lesnar! Cesaro! Even the guys I don't really care for can still make for interesting matches and fueds occasionally like Orton/Sheamus/Miz/PTP/the Dusts/the Usos/Paige/AJ/Swagz/Barrett) and maaaan... does anyone give a shit?

I was thinking while I was bored today at the 1995 thing. If the internet existed when Diesel was pushed to the moon while midcard Bret fueded with dentists, pirates and lawler's faceless survivor series goons after the big WMX confetti win, it would have been juuuust as bad as today. Just change the names: when Diesel (reigns) was pushed to the moon while midcard Bret (bryan) fueded with dentists (still the same guy), pirates (sheamus at wm again supposedly?) and lawler's faceless survivor series goons (j&j security and big show?) after the big WMXXX confetti win... people are just not going to care, watch or pay for whatever you are shilling. 1996 they nearly went out of business despite having a list as good as the current one - and then they weren't losing money for a network.

yeah the idea of people watching Raw these days kind of makes my boggle a bit. Three hours of their bullshit is too much for some PPVs, let alone useless throwaway tv programming with no proper matches.

take the point about the Diesel/Reigns comparison but the infuriating difference is that if people didn't like 1995 WWF then they could just start following WCW instead. Business got so bad that things had to change up, but how could that happen now? It's the same problem everyone's been harping on about recently - what are the alternatives? I mean obviously for more interested fans there will always be alternatives out there, but none that a more casual fan would be bothered about.

Megapushing Reigns might not do gangbusters at the box office but it can only hurt them so badly, right? It's kinda unimaginable that things could ever get to 95/96 levels of bad ever again in business terms, Diesel was only the tip of the iceberg.

nxt is a really good wwe product

that's true. let's hope they just leave everyone there for the foreseeable future. Apparently The Ascension got squashed by the Prime Time Players last night. I mean I'm not gonna feign regret, The Ascension are a pair of total cloggers, but it doesn't exactly bode well wrt the booking team's esteem for NXT talents. I mean what of Bo Dallas and Adam Rose?

if people didn't like 1995 WWF then they could just start following WCW instead

i was thinking about this wrt to the last two rumble reactions, how it's sort of a new thing how crowds can force themselves into changing the course of kayfabe (there's always been like... x-pac heat, but this is on a whole new level). that wouldn't happen if there was still a WCW around for fans to defect to. everyone's stuck with WWE so they're gonna want to fix it.

Well, with Lucha Underground, NJPW, ROH and Impact, there ARE other options. Hell, even within WWE, there is NXT, which consistantly puts out better shows than main roster. I think that the slew of "released" superstars have brought a decent amount of followers to the promotions they have moved on to (Brodus Clay in TNA, Del Rio in ROH, Morrisson in Lucha), which I appreciate.
I'm pretty disappointed at their push for Reigns. I have no problem with Reigns, but it just isn't his time. He's not ready to main event XXXI, and the fact they have to get other wrestlers to "belee dat" just proves how prematurely they are pushing him. If they held this off for a year and gave him a good build, I think that the fans would be more willing to accept him. Then again, both Bryan and Reigns were out for a while last year on injury, which surely changed their career trajectories, but I feel like the WWE just didn't account for that lost time or adjust their plans.
I think that this new "reality" era has really screwed many superstars out of really getting to show off their talents, both in and out of the ring. Ambrose's Lunatic Fringe gimmick is a great callback to Mankind, Pillman, Piper and the unpredictable legends that came before him. Rusev as the new "Iron Sheik" (complete with camel clutch) is another one that I wish they would do more with.

As far as NXT goes, I would love for some of the talent down there to come up to main roster (I hear Neville's next in line?) but I'm afraid that the move would ruin them. Paige was the only transition that wasn't totally a waste (though I'm wary of what they do with her as far as storylines/total divas/etc.). When The Ascension (who I didn't really care about while they were in NXT) moved up, they were turned into the new Demolition/Road Warriors, which didn't work for them. Not even having them beat New Age Outlaws got them over (but it did prove that Billy Gunn is still doing pretty well).

Also, let's take a moment to appreciate the Kevin Steen/El Generico reprise in NXT.

The Shield and The Wyatts transitioned fine

I actually forgot about them completely. The Shield did very well and the Wyatts had a pretty interesting run. Adam Rose and The Ascension, however, were less successful. Bo Dallas had a pretty entertaining streak and had a decent amount of feud potential that I hope they bring back because I thought the character was hilarious. I desperately want some of the divas from NXT up on the main roster, but I'm worried that they won't be handled well.

Paige was the only transition that wasn't totally a waste (though I'm wary of what they do with her as far as storylines/total divas/etc.)

https://twitter.com/WWEAJLee/status/570390583853895681
https://twitter.com/WWEAJLee/status/570390665726693377

this could go well or it could go very poorly indeed

o i suppose aj and paige aren't the same person. but anyway

I saw those, but doubt that anything will really come of it, unfortunately. I was late to being a fan of A.J. but I've really missed her in the divas division, lately. Her more recent storylines didn't seem quite as forced as the Bella Twins (and Nikki's weird heel turn at Summerslam).

Well, with Lucha Underground, NJPW, ROH and Impact, there ARE other options.

they really aren't, though. wrestling fans, esp smarks who grew up with WCW/WWF, are always going to want their massive top-of-the-food-chain promotions. anything else right now isn't in the same tier. they're all better -- LU is probably my favorite show on television right now -- but they occupy different space in our brains. there's a reason smarks hate WWE the most and still spend 95% of their time talking about it.

why is "belee dat" a thing? he pretty much pronounces all the letters when he says it

like literally the queen's english

it reminds me of barbershop window shawn's "i don't think so" in corniness and stopping a talented dude in not getting over