rolling (non-millenials) grabbing the brass ring 2015

i've never been as excited for a RAW episode as i am for tnite's NXT

fucking hell solomon crowe looks like shit. fake tan midget in a taz onesie and a bad studded leather jacket with a neck beard and shit my chemical romance hair?

Yeah, well they jobbed Parker out to him, right?
On the other hand, I am pretty interested in Rhyno's return and the possibility of Samoa Joe getting an NXT run.

Samoa Joe seems like one of the only potential people left big enough to debut on the main roster, if he'd lose a bit of weight and showed commitment, right? Him, Angle... Yeah I guess its just Angle left now.

CJ Parker jobber to all new débutants is maybe my favourite gimmick in wrestling atm bar bayley.

I did not like the end: "we now return to your regularly scheduled program."

So you're using your elite hacking/smashing skills to... make sure the show runs correctly?

That was a pretty uniformly shit PPV. Tons of blown spots, people completely out of their depth, and the highlight was a promo. Ugh.

that bad huh? i picked the oscars.

(also bad)

Rusev v. Cena was good.

Reigns vs Bryan was really good, but I'm not sure why fans are supposed to accept Bryan's endorsement of Reigns when they wouldn't accept the Rock's. It's no different from the Rumble -- they're being totally transparent in trying to manipulate fan reactions rather than just letting people cheer whoever they want. They had Brock backstage at RAW yesterday and didn't use him ... WTF??

it's actually kind of impressive how quickly they managed to kill bryan

Yeah, that meltzer quote doing the rounds about how they've fucked up basically everyone on the roster barring cena, orton and the part timers is otm, you gotta wonder how bad shit is gonna get in the post wm lull when lesnar, taker, sting and HHH have gone on their way and you're getting 20 minute roman reigns main events on every show. Fastlane doesn't augur well.

could make a very good argument that the "creative" side of WWE has never been worse in 2015

As someone who has literally only watched the Royal Rumble and the 3way, is it worse than 1995? 1995 surely had nothing as good as Lesnar-Rollins-Cena, but it also didn't have the fucking Big Show & Kane main event equivz nearly 20 years after they were popular (Lawler and Backlund maybe?)

Roman Reigns vs Rusev for the WWE title at Summerslam could theoretically be a fucking shitty main-event match I suppose? But then again nah, nothing could be as bad as Diesel-Mabel.

But the thing is, in 1995 what had they got work with? I mean ok, they really weren't making the best of the Harts, Michaels, Ramon by having Diesel main-event every month against Sid/Davey Boy/Mabel/whoever. WWE's current roster so stacked, they could be putting out a great product if anyone gave a shit and they weren't trying so hard to stop anyone from ever looking bad that they never let anyone look any good either.

1995 might have been worse from a purely qualitative standpoint. idk, the year is young yet and you know that Bryan / Ziggler / Rollins / Ambrose are gonna keep having good matches against the majority of opponents (if they're allowed to, gotta think the focus will shift to some of them post-WM when the roster thins out). So there will probably be redeeming features? But yeah, this is certainly the least interested I've been in things since that time The Miz had a WWE title feud with Jerry Lawler and Michael Cole started commentating from within a plexiglass box.

But it's all ok guys, the entire G1 Climax tournament from last year is up on Dailymotion in HD and it is awesome beyond the dreams of men (I am new to puroresu btw)

I don't think I've watched a whole Raw since The Miz & R-Truth power couple made me give up. It really does seem crazy they have such an insane depth of talent (Bryan! Rollins! Ziggler! Wyatt! Harper! Ambrose! Cody! Rusev! John fucking Cena! Brock fucking Lesnar! Cesaro! Even the guys I don't really care for can still make for interesting matches and fueds occasionally like Orton/Sheamus/Miz/PTP/the Dusts/the Usos/Paige/AJ/Swagz/Barrett) and maaaan... does anyone give a shit?

I was thinking while I was bored today at the 1995 thing. If the internet existed when Diesel was pushed to the moon while midcard Bret fueded with dentists, pirates and lawler's faceless survivor series goons after the big WMX confetti win, it would have been juuuust as bad as today. Just change the names: when Diesel (reigns) was pushed to the moon while midcard Bret (bryan) fueded with dentists (still the same guy), pirates (sheamus at wm again supposedly?) and lawler's faceless survivor series goons (j&j security and big show?) after the big WMXXX confetti win... people are just not going to care, watch or pay for whatever you are shilling. 1996 they nearly went out of business despite having a list as good as the current one - and then they weren't losing money for a network.

yeah the idea of people watching Raw these days kind of makes my boggle a bit. Three hours of their bullshit is too much for some PPVs, let alone useless throwaway tv programming with no proper matches.

take the point about the Diesel/Reigns comparison but the infuriating difference is that if people didn't like 1995 WWF then they could just start following WCW instead. Business got so bad that things had to change up, but how could that happen now? It's the same problem everyone's been harping on about recently - what are the alternatives? I mean obviously for more interested fans there will always be alternatives out there, but none that a more casual fan would be bothered about.

Megapushing Reigns might not do gangbusters at the box office but it can only hurt them so badly, right? It's kinda unimaginable that things could ever get to 95/96 levels of bad ever again in business terms, Diesel was only the tip of the iceberg.

nxt is a really good wwe product

that's true. let's hope they just leave everyone there for the foreseeable future. Apparently The Ascension got squashed by the Prime Time Players last night. I mean I'm not gonna feign regret, The Ascension are a pair of total cloggers, but it doesn't exactly bode well wrt the booking team's esteem for NXT talents. I mean what of Bo Dallas and Adam Rose?

if people didn't like 1995 WWF then they could just start following WCW instead

i was thinking about this wrt to the last two rumble reactions, how it's sort of a new thing how crowds can force themselves into changing the course of kayfabe (there's always been like... x-pac heat, but this is on a whole new level). that wouldn't happen if there was still a WCW around for fans to defect to. everyone's stuck with WWE so they're gonna want to fix it.

Well, with Lucha Underground, NJPW, ROH and Impact, there ARE other options. Hell, even within WWE, there is NXT, which consistantly puts out better shows than main roster. I think that the slew of "released" superstars have brought a decent amount of followers to the promotions they have moved on to (Brodus Clay in TNA, Del Rio in ROH, Morrisson in Lucha), which I appreciate.
I'm pretty disappointed at their push for Reigns. I have no problem with Reigns, but it just isn't his time. He's not ready to main event XXXI, and the fact they have to get other wrestlers to "belee dat" just proves how prematurely they are pushing him. If they held this off for a year and gave him a good build, I think that the fans would be more willing to accept him. Then again, both Bryan and Reigns were out for a while last year on injury, which surely changed their career trajectories, but I feel like the WWE just didn't account for that lost time or adjust their plans.
I think that this new "reality" era has really screwed many superstars out of really getting to show off their talents, both in and out of the ring. Ambrose's Lunatic Fringe gimmick is a great callback to Mankind, Pillman, Piper and the unpredictable legends that came before him. Rusev as the new "Iron Sheik" (complete with camel clutch) is another one that I wish they would do more with.

As far as NXT goes, I would love for some of the talent down there to come up to main roster (I hear Neville's next in line?) but I'm afraid that the move would ruin them. Paige was the only transition that wasn't totally a waste (though I'm wary of what they do with her as far as storylines/total divas/etc.). When The Ascension (who I didn't really care about while they were in NXT) moved up, they were turned into the new Demolition/Road Warriors, which didn't work for them. Not even having them beat New Age Outlaws got them over (but it did prove that Billy Gunn is still doing pretty well).

Also, let's take a moment to appreciate the Kevin Steen/El Generico reprise in NXT.

The Shield and The Wyatts transitioned fine

I actually forgot about them completely. The Shield did very well and the Wyatts had a pretty interesting run. Adam Rose and The Ascension, however, were less successful. Bo Dallas had a pretty entertaining streak and had a decent amount of feud potential that I hope they bring back because I thought the character was hilarious. I desperately want some of the divas from NXT up on the main roster, but I'm worried that they won't be handled well.

Paige was the only transition that wasn't totally a waste (though I'm wary of what they do with her as far as storylines/total divas/etc.)

https://twitter.com/WWEAJLee/status/570390583853895681
https://twitter.com/WWEAJLee/status/570390665726693377

this could go well or it could go very poorly indeed

o i suppose aj and paige aren't the same person. but anyway

I saw those, but doubt that anything will really come of it, unfortunately. I was late to being a fan of A.J. but I've really missed her in the divas division, lately. Her more recent storylines didn't seem quite as forced as the Bella Twins (and Nikki's weird heel turn at Summerslam).

Well, with Lucha Underground, NJPW, ROH and Impact, there ARE other options.

they really aren't, though. wrestling fans, esp smarks who grew up with WCW/WWF, are always going to want their massive top-of-the-food-chain promotions. anything else right now isn't in the same tier. they're all better -- LU is probably my favorite show on television right now -- but they occupy different space in our brains. there's a reason smarks hate WWE the most and still spend 95% of their time talking about it.

why is "belee dat" a thing? he pretty much pronounces all the letters when he says it

like literally the queen's english

it reminds me of barbershop window shawn's "i don't think so" in corniness and stopping a talented dude in not getting over

The meltzer article copied and pasted here is really pretty good on the current situation re: Bryan and Reigns

http://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/2x6e60/dave_meltzer_but_the_biggest_story_on_fast_lane/

He makes a strong case, but I'm not sure why it means that Bryan is finished as a main eventer. Couldn't you have said the same thing about Bret Hart in '93, for instance? He was supposed to get a big win over Hogan at Summerslam and get solidified as the top guy, instead they jobbed him to Yokozuna and Hogan left the company. You could say that they missed the boat with Bret and didn't strike while the iron was hot, etc. They changed their minds with guys before, they can change their minds with Bryan if they wanted to (they don't want to, but that's a separate issue).

He's definitely right about one thing with Bryan -- nobody has ever done so much with such a crappy push.

Yeah some of the doom-laden "oh it's all over and finished forever!!" stuff is silly, Rollins and wyatt still look like sure things to get a run at the top soonish and Rollins/Bryan will no doubt tear the house down at some point.

But I think that meltzer is otm in his analysis of how this reigns push is egregious in its pigheadedness even by wwe's usual standards.

The underlying stupidity of Reigns' push is nothing new though. People are reacting so strongly to this piece because of what he says about Bryan.

I actually feel bad for Reigns. I'm sure he works his ass off but the company isn't doing him any favours by a) pushing him too fast, and b) giving him such horrible material to work with.

it reminds me of barbershop window shawn's "i don't think so" in corniness and stopping a talented dude in not getting over

― a hoy hoy, Thursday, February 26, 2015 2:56 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i'm not talking about roman saying "believe that" i'm talking about smarks mocking him by spelling it "belee dat"

i think this is good news:
http://uproxx.com/prowrestling/2015/02/triple-h-and-stephanie-mcmahon-have-been-elected-to-wwes-board-of-directors-wait-thats-real/

"Belee Dat" has become a habit with me and my friends talking about Reigns, really. It's asinine, but whatever.
It's unfortunate for Reigns that so many people are being turned off of him because he's being shoved down our throats. I rolled my eyes at the Bryan endorsement, mostly because I am a huge fan of DB, and I was really hoping for a David and Goliath win from him at Mania. I think that assertion that he already had his Wrestlemania moment is a ridiculous copout for not letting him have another.

it's odd to think back to how much of a star reigns looked while losing at last year's elimination chamber, and how much of a chump he's looked since the shield splitting. is there any instance in any form of entertainment, business, anything, of an organisation getting everything so consistently and idiotically wrong yet still being basically successful in the way that the wwe's been doing for years now?

idk if i would agree that they always get everything consistently and idiotically wrong from a creative perspective - maybe you could argue that they have been doing so since last year's Wrestlemania?

I mean sure, I recognise that they've been fucking up loads of stuff on a semi-regular basis for years now, but they've always been careful to throw in just enough of what the more hardcore fanbase actually wants to see in order to maintain a little bit of buzz. The Summer of Punk, the return of Rocky, the return of Lesnar, the rise of the Shield, the Bryan push and the whole Yes Movement thing, the rise of the Wyatt family, the launch of brand NXT - some of it was undoubtedly fucked up (lol Johnny Ace and Diesel getting into it with Punk), but he still went on to hold the belt for more than a year eventually.

I actually think part of the reason this year has seemed so creatively bankrupt this past year is that for a couple of years prior to this they hadn't been doing an entirely shit job (certainly when confronted with all the barricades and obstacles of modern WWE - that they themselves have erected!) of building new talent that people want to watch and putting on matches that people want to see. Certainly when you compare it to the years before of endless Cena/Orton feuding, The Miz title run, Michael Cole as top heel, R-Truth as main-eventer, the Nexus abortion etc.

But yes, this year they've got it completely bang wrong, and not just with Reigns. I mean they've botched the Sting arrival so badly. A couple of years ago, a WM with a Lesnar main-event, a Taker match, Cena wrestling a hot new heel and the WWE debut of fuckin' Sting would've felt like a surefire hit. Instead it's shaping up to be the worst WM in 4 years.

R-Truth's 1 solo main event was dope, he was crazy and everything a heel upper midcard should be.

But yeah, WWE is so stale and the booking is horrible on top of that. Even with the russo-esque ghost finishes, "wish you died in the woooomb", exploding tvs and stabbing a mannequin etc. - fucking hell the characters are mostly so dull. Sandow, Cody and Wade don't really do anything for me but at least they've tried in the past year to come up with a gimmick for themselves. What the fuck is idk the usos or kane or ziggler or swagger or or sheamus or eric rowan etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc doing to get themselves noticed? nothing? oh well then who gives a fuck?

Bryan isn't going to be Hacksaw like Meltzer says. He'll be the new Eddie. But who the fuck is the new Hacksaw? What the fuck is worth watching on the 5 hours of Raw or Smackdown when one of the top 8 wrestlers aren't involved?

Just fucking fire everyone.

With my day off with nothing to do but wait for a package, i'm watching WMXXX. Fuck me this is beautiful. EVERYTHING WAS PERFECT (I've not yet got to Taker's concussion but hell if he didn't hit his head, I'm sure it would have been 5* too.)

What the hell happened to Cesaro? Poor fucking guy. Putting Big Show over the ropes got a reaction nearly as big as Bryan.

Tbf to ziggler he works to get himself over by having good matches whenever they give him a bit of TV time. but he's also probably reaching the stage where he gives the whole thing up as a bad job and acknowledges that it's not gonna happen for him.

Swagger I have grown to kinda like in that he's a big dude who can do moves and they probably should have done much more with him by now, but obv he hasn't exactly done himself many favours.

The Usos are a good tag team who have good tag team matches and, this being wrestling after all, I have no problem with guys whose gimmick is "happy go lucky Samoan". The problem is with the rest of the division, if there were fresh matches to be had then they'd be completely fine as they are.

But yeah, fire Kane, big show and Vince McMahon. They've made a good start by ditching mysterio.

what happened to wee rey anyway, i missed wrestling for a decade and i came back to find that who i knew as one of the best workers around was a pariah.

ziggler and cesaro (and to an extent ambrose) being inexplicably buried seem to me some of the most egregious failures, a lot of the rest correspond to some backwards business logic but in those cases it seems that wwe just has an objection to certain people being good and popular.

Ring name Real name Notes
Adam Rose[3] Raymond Leppan - FIRE
Bad News Barrett[4] Stuart Bennett[5] WWE Intercontinental Champion
Big E[6] Ettore Ewen[7]
Big Show[8] Paul Wight[9] - FIRE
Bo Dallas[10] Taylor Rotunda[11]
Bray Wyatt[12] Windham Rotunda
Brock Lesnar[13] Brock Lesnar[14] WWE World Heavyweight Champion
Makes limited appearances

The Bunny[15] Unknown Inactive; has not appeared in over 30 days - FIRE?
Cesaro[16] Claudio Castagnoli[17] WWE Tag Team Champion
Christian[18] William Reso[19] Inactive; has not appeared in over 30 days - FIRE
Curtis Axel[20] Joseph Hennig[21]
Damien Mizdow[22] Aaron Haddad[23]
Daniel Bryan[24] Bryan Danielson[25]
Darren Young[26] Frederick Rosser III[27] - FIRE
Dean Ambrose[28] Jonathan Good[29]
Diego[30] Edwin Colón[31] - FIRE
Dolph Ziggler[32] Nicholas Nemeth
Erick Rowan[33] Joseph Ruud - FIRE
Fandango[34] Curtis Hussey[35] - FIRE
Fernando[36] Orlando Colón[37] - FIRE
Goldust[38] Dustin Runnels
Heath Slater[39] Heath Miller[40] - FIRE
Jack Swagger[41] Donald Hager[42] - FIRE
Jey Uso[43] Joshua Fatu[44]
Jimmy Uso[45] Jonathan Fatu[46]
John Cena[47] John Cena[48]
Kane[49] Glenn Jacobs[50] (storyline) Director of Operations - FIRE
Kofi Kingston[51] Kofi Sarkodie-Mensah[52] - FIRE
Konnor[53] Ryan Parmeter[54] - FIRE
Luke Harper[55] Jon Huber
Mark Henry[56] Mark Henry[57] Inactive; unknown injury
The Miz[58] Michael Mizanin[59]
R-Truth[60] Ronnie Killings[61] - FIRE
Randy Orton[62] Randall Orton[63] - FIRE
The Rock[64] Dwayne Johnson[65] Makes limited appearances - LOL
Roman Reigns[66] Leati Anoa'i[67] Royal Rumble winner
Rusev[68] Miroslav Barnyashev WWE United States Champion
Ryback[69] Ryan Reeves
Seth Rollins[70] Colby Lopez[71] Money in the Bank contract holder
Sheamus[72] Stephen Farrelly[73] - FIRE
Sin Cara[74] Jorge Arias - FIRE
Stardust[75] Cody Runnels
Sting[76] Steven Borden Makes limited appearances
Titus O'Neil[77] Thaddeus Bullard, Sr.[78]
Triple H[79] Paul Levesque Minority owner
Executive Vice President (talent/live events/creative)[80]
Member of the Board of Directors[81]
(storyline) Chief Operating Officer
Tyson Kidd[82] Theodore Wilson[83] WWE Tag Team Champion
The Undertaker[84] Mark Calaway[85] Makes limited appearances
Viktor[86] Eric Thompson[87] - FIRE
Xavier Woods[88] Austin Watson[89] - FIRE
Zack Ryder[90] Matthew Cardona[91] Inactive; has not appeared in over 30 days - LOL
Female wrestlers

Nikki Bella
Ring name Real name Notes
AJ Lee[92] April Brooks Inactive; neck injury[93][94][95]
Alicia Fox[96] Victoria Crawford[97]
Brie Bella[98] Brianna Danielson[99]
Cameron[100] Ariane Andrew[101] - FIRE
Emma[102] Tenille Dashwood
Eva Marie[103] Natalie Coyle[104] Inactive; breast implant rupture[105] - FIRE
Layla[106] Layla El[107] Inactive; has not appeared in over 30 days - FIRE
Naomi[108] Trinity Fatu[109] - FIRE
Natalya[110] Natalie Neidhart[111] - FIRE
Nikki Bella[112] Nicole Garcia-Colace[113] WWE Divas Champion
Paige[114] Saraya-Jade Bevis[115]
Rosa Mendes[116] Milena Roucka Valet of Fandango - FIRE
Summer Rae[117] Danielle Moinet - FIRE
Tamina Snuka[118] Sarona Reiher[119] Inactive; torn ACL[120] - FIRE
Other on-air personnel

Stephanie McMahon
Ring name Real name Notes
El Torito[121][122] Unknown Mascot of Los Matadores - FIRE
Hornswoggle[123] Dylan Postl - FIRE
Jamie Noble[124] James Gibson Security for The Authority
Occasional wrestler
Also producer
Joey Mercury[125] Adam Birch Security for The Authority
Occasional wrestler
Also producer
Lana[126] Catherine Perry Manager of Rusev
Paul Heyman[127] Paul Heyman[128] Manager of Brock Lesnar
Stephanie McMahon[129] Stephanie Levesque Minority owner
Chief Brand Officer
Member of the Board of Directors[81]
Occasional wrestler
William Regal[130] Darren Matthews General Manager of NXT
Talent scout/evaluator
Zeb Colter[131] Wayne Keown Manager of Jack Swagger
Inactive; unknown injury
Broadcast team
Ring name Real name Notes
Booker T[132] Booker Huffman, Jr. Color commentator for Raw
PPV Pre-show analyst
Hall of Famer
Byron Saxton[133] Bryan Kelly Color commentator for SmackDown and Superstars
PPV Pre-show analyst
Carlos Cabrera[134] Carlos Cabrera Spanish color commentator for pay-per-views
Co-host of WWE en Español
Corey Graves[135] Matthew Polinsky[136] Color commentator for NXT
Pre-show analyst for Raw and PPVs
David Otunga[137] David Otunga, Sr.[138] Pre-show analyst for Raw - FIRE
Eden[139] Brandi Runnels Ring announcer for SmackDown and Main Event
Backstage interviewer on Raw and pay-per-views
Jason Albert[140] Matthew Bloom Color commentator for NXT
Also NXT trainer
Jerry Lawler[141] Jerry Lawler[142] Color commentator for SmackDown and pay-per-views - FIRE
Hall of Famer
Jerry Soto[143] Jerry Soto Spanish color commentator for pay-per-views
Co-host of WWE en Español
John "Bradshaw" Layfield[144] John Layfield[145] Color commentator for Raw, Main Event, and pay-per-views - FIRE
Co-host of The JBL and Cole Show
JoJo[146] Joseann Offerman[104] Ring announcer for NXT
Kyle Edwards[147] Arda Ocal Co-host of Bottom Line and Experience
Lilian Garcia[148] Lilián Garcia Ring announcer for Raw, Superstars, and pay-per-views
Marcelo Rodriguez[149] Marcelo Laprea Spanish color commentator for pay-per-views
Co-host of WWE en Español
Michael Cole[150] Michael Coulthard[151] Lead commentator for Raw, SmackDown and pay-per-views
Co-host of The JBL and Cole Show
Renee Young[152] Renee Paquette Co-host of Bottom Line, Experience, Vintage and Free for All
Backstage interviewer on Raw, SmackDown and pay-per-views
Color commentator for NXT
Host of This Week in WWE
PPV Pre-show host
Rich Brennan[153] Rich Bocchini Color commentator for NXT
Lead commentator for Superstars
Scott Stanford[154] Scott Stanford[155] Co-host of Free for All - FIRE
Pre-show host for Raw
Tom Phillips[156] Thomas Hannifan Lead commentator for Main Event and NXT[157]
Backstage interviewer

Fuck it, just pay for Lesnar v. Bryan or Rollins or later Zayn, Neville or Kenta every week and fire everyone else.

Rey, as opposed to WCW Rey Jr., hits all the reasons why everyone hates Orton. Can't cut a promo & has annoying spots where wrestlers keep having to find themselves waiting to be 619-ed* eternally.

*an example for Orton is that inane DDT using the ropes.

+ A wrestler who relies solely on speed who has had many knee-ops and is as slow as big show.

Oh man, poor Ascension, not even the New Age Outlaws could get them over. I don't really like them, but what a sad debut.

Christian, if I remember correctly, has officially retired. It wasn't announced because it has been years since anyone has cared about Christian.

Lol perhaps I am missing some glaring sarcasm here, but I've read "not even the new age outlaws" in some other places too, so even if you were kidding i am gonna take this opportunity to vent a little.

I mean, how the fuck are the fuckin road dogg and assman billy gunn gonna get anyone over in 2015? They were never, they were fucking never remotely good at any stage, they just had a catchphrase that caught on. You might as well be surprised at someone not getting over on hacksaw jim duggan in 2015 (curse you meltzer for puttin that analogy on my head).

Perhaps the bullshittiest part of wwe's latter-day revision of its own history is the deification of these two hacks as the greyest tag team EVAR in an utterly transparent metaphorical rimjob to hhh and hbk meant to ensure that every aspect of attitude era dx is enshrined forever after as the pinnacle of what pro wrestling could and should be about.

Don't get me wrong, I have watched and enjoyed a number of jeff jarrett's mid 90s wwf matches, but even so. I don't wish him any ill feeling on a personal level, but fuck Brian James forever imo

619 spots or not, rey was one of the best workers in the world well into the late 2000s, even if he was mostly useless since then. he got a lot of smark hate but whatever

fwiw christian claims that he isn't retired but wwe says he is, so who knows