Summerslam 2004 Classic or Dud

I thought it was bad - the divas dodgeball was maybe the WWE's lowest point, in many ways. Really dismal. I will only be pleased with Randy Orton's success if it leads to the break-up of Evolution - I thought the handshake with Benoit might herald a switch to the babyface side. For instance, Randy claiming to be the great legend might bring him up against Ric Flair (a retirement match might be overdue), while obviously Triple H always wants the title. There could be good stories coming.

Didn't see the PPV but I read that the crowd was completely nutty. They booed Eugene, cheered HHH, booed Edge, and did the wave during the Taker vs JBL match. Some have suggested this is more Canadian weirdness than anything indicative of the performances in the event itself.

The Orton Babyface turn could be a big mistake as it might be too early for such a move and they could have coasted longer on Orton's entertaining assholery but I'm hopeful.

OTM about Diva Dodgeball. The diva search thing is bad enough, as is the fact that the performers in the womens division get less air time because of it but who the fuck would think dodgeball could be in any way entertaining?

Yeah, the crowd was very weird, although I'm a big Triple H fan, and don't like the concept of Eugene, though the man executing it is tremendously good. I couldn't work them out at all.

The Orton turn is purely speculation on my part.

I can't say I'm sorry the women don't get much airtime, really - when they do it's pretty miserable stuff. Gail Kim is the only one I really like, as she can really wrestle as well as being gorgeous.

although I'm a big Triple H fan, and don't like the concept of Eugene, though the man executing it is tremendously good
-- Martin Skidmore (lonewolf.cu...), August 21st, 2004.

I agree. When I first heard about the character I was expecting the worst. The man performing as Eugene makes all of the difference though. He came up from OVW, originally very popular playing a character worlds apart from "Eugene" so it's remarkable how he can work the mic AND be interesting in the ring adding dimension to a crude novelty concept.

I like Molly, Victoria, and Gail (Trish works only as a Heel and better seconding Christian than as a competitor herself). The Womens division segments are lame I think because the performers are better than the material the writers demean them with. They typically reduce Molly to a cruel joke and never let any kind of feud play itself out; they stop and start storylines too frequently. They also get no help from RAW's announcing team.

They really blew the Orton turn. There were so many ways of making it happen - Orton bragging and riling Flair, Orton refusing Triple H a match, his saying that Benoit was deserving of the first title match rather than someone in Evolution, all kinds of possibilities. So what do they do? They just have Evolution turn against him on the next day, with no discernible motivation. Even after the Benoit rematch, they could have had Orton grab the mic and talk about how he didn't really need Evolution's help to be champ or something like that.

i've only been watching wwe for a couple months or so - after a ten year hiatus - but i was really starting to buy into orton's legend killer mythos. besides batista, i wasn't really feeling anyone else on the current circuit, so i was pretty excited to see orton defend against benoit monday right. the victory was pretty sweet, the crowd was loving it - but who wouldn't? OH MY GOD! THE RKO! RKO OUTTA NOWHERE! woo! then ric, triple h, and batista climb in the ring and celebrate for a really, really long time, with lots of hugging and the king yelling "where are the women?! where are the women?!" to magnify an seemingly overt homo factor i was roffling over. batista picks orton up on his shoulders and has his hair tousled...triple h with the thumb's up - could it get any more ridiculous?

THUMBS DOWN!

my jaw literally dropped. totally blindsided me. orton gets stomped and i can't believe it! how can they turn randy orton good? he's certainly charismatic enough to crossover but i could never buy him righting wrongs and working against the brass. i'm really hoping the furthest good orton shifts is, like, teaming up with benoit to get revenge on evolution. then back to business being an asshole. an independent asshole. maybe he has dibs on the new diva? idunno how that nonsense works. basically, i don't want him hanging out with boring good guys like chris jericho or something...

WWE hasn't done a really great turn for ages. I mean, I've said it before, you want to know how to conduct a turn, Terry Funk on Ric Flair back in... 88? 89? Anyway: "What you're saying Ric... what you're saying is that I'm just not good enough, isn't it?".

Orton will flop as a face, and he'll be returned in, what, four months? Remember Angle couldn't even get over as a pro-America face after 9/11.

It's interesting to compare the Orton turn to the Four Horseman angle from NWA 1990 when Sting was ejected from the stable by Flair and the Andersons. Sting gets punked out for being a threat to Flair's title. The way the three turned on him built up in a natural progression. I happened to watch the tape recently, it's brilliant shit.

They should have allowed some time for Orton to be in Evolution as champ. They turned him much too quickly. I think they wanted to shock people, which is good, but it's a total waste of time if they have no long term plan for what they're doing with Orton. If the WWE remain intent on booking on the fly they'll be botch all storylines.

Dom,
I think Angle's inability to get over as a patriotic face has a lot to do with the fact that it was within the larger context of the WCW/ECW Invasion angle; which was the suckiest suck that ever sucked. I did enjoy Angle's assault on heel Steve Austin with the milk truck though.