Powerslam's "20 Matches You Must See"

If so, then I've seen five of those matches, although there's a few more that I've been meaning to track down but haven't. It's an interesting list, a true mixed bag of stuff.

Can-Am Express vs Kenta Kobashi and Tsuyoshi Kikuchi AJPW May 25, 1992 (Best tag match ever)

What? Best ever? I've never even heard of this match.

This is so fucking awesome. Even if you don't dig MMA, there's no way you can't like this.

The Don Frye vs Yoshihiro Takayama Pride 21 is available on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/?v=G_C6_KtmdDQ

I couldn't find any of the others that I looked for.

But I did find a Dynamite Kid promo (odd)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxB_TvWhO0Q

And I've discovered that the most popular Sid Vicious piece is the leg break clip (there are many versions).
http://www.youtube.com/results?search=sid+vicious

IIRC, that match was hugely important in puro circles, as fans were almost expecting wrestling stars to be legit badasses. Suddenly loads of guys started considering shoot fights as a way to up their profile in the wrestling world.

In that Pride clip - where does that fall on the sport vs entertainment scale? As in wrestling, with bookers and what not, would be entertainment. A fight would be a sport (of sorts). Is what went on there completely out of sorts with what typically goes on in that promotion?

But the description "Ultraviolent legit shoot between two wrestlers" suggests that typically (by using the terms "shoot" and "wrestlers") when either of those guys is in the ring it is a booked performance? Would the next (or previous) couple of guys in that ring have worked a stiff but booked match? or even have done the "stomp on the mat" pulled punches thing? I know pretty much nothing about Japanese wrestling. I have no idea where that falls since that looked like UFCish style violence.

I can't remember Frye's wrestling background (somebody here will know), but I think he's been doing MMA exclusively for quite a while now. When it comes to shoot fighting, he's basically a puncher. Takayama worked for Pro Wrestling NOAH for years. I think that was the first shoot fight he'd done in some time.

-There are no rules regarding whether or not you have to fight on the ground in UFC or PRIDE. Matter of fact, PRIDE is known for having more barbaric rules, to be frank. They allow knees to the head on the ground (not too bad) as well as soccer kicks and stomps to the head and face (really bad).

-Takayama made his debut in PRIDE fighting Fujita back at PRIDE 14. He then fought Sammy Schilt in PRIDE 18. He lost both matches, but the beatings he took in both fights (which were immense) made him a huge star in Japanese wrestling and built his character. It took him to main event level. Frye was the pinnacle of that.

-Pro wrestlers had been crossing over into MMA forever. Modern MMA's first stars were almost all pro wrestlers. Dan Severn wore his NWA Heavyweight Championship into the ring to the UFC. Ken Shamrock worked in UWFi before there was a Pancrase or UFC. Bas Rutten and Frank Shamrock were in the same boat. Nohibuko Takada, who headlined the first PRIDE show at Tokyo Dome was the ace of UWFi (he fought Rickson Gracie. you can guess what happened). The guy who made the pro wrestling crossover *huge*, however, was Kazushi Sakuraba, who in 1999-2000 was the best pound for pound fighter in the world, and considered to perhaps be the greatest fighter of all time.

Other wrestlers that made the crossover early in PRIDE's existence included: Giant Ochai, Naoya Ogawa, and Yoshiaki Yatsu. Shooto has seen Jushin Liger fight there, and ZST had a legendary card crosspromoted with Promo Azteca where Lucha Libre fighters fought shootfighers in full on shoots (none of the luchadors, including Super Porky, won). Kensuke Sasaki fought for Gladiator's Challenge in the US as well. There have been some US wrestlers who've made attempts, and none of them faired well. Craig Pittman went 1-1 in Japan Vale Tudo Championships, Bam Bam Bigelow absorbed an inhuman beating from Kimo (he later claimed it was a work, contrary to the video evidence), and there's others I'll think of later.

Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic, former K-1 Fighter, also made a name for himself in Japan by decimating professional wrestlers, most famously, knocking out Yuji Nagata in 30 seconds.

-PRIDE is a full on shoot organization, though there are constantly rumors of worked fights occurring (almost always involving japanese talent) as a result of their connections with pro wrestling and their bankrolling by the mafia. The only fully admitted work in the history of Pride was Alexander Otsuka and Nohibuko Takada's fight (I believe from PRIDE 7). Coleman/Takada is also widely believed to be a work (Coleman has eluded to it, and Gary Goodridge also claims it to be), as is Goodridge/Ogawa (which, if true, was a very realistic looking work).

Following UFC's Ultimate Ultimate '96 tournament, Frye became a full time worker for New Japan Pro Wrestling. He didn't fight again until 2001, when The Chin sent him over to PRIDE. He fought sporadically for K-1 following his first retirement in 2003, and is apparently retired for good now.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the early days of UFC were dominated by strikers + kickers, right? So guys like Frye (and Shamrock) didn't have to be strong mat wrestlers since their offense was based around scoring a quick knockout blow. The same would apply to Takayama, which explains why neither of those guys wanted to take it to the ground at PRIDE 21.

Most of the UFC stuff I've seen is from the last few years, and the fighters are fairly well-rounded now. Thus, a lot more fights are contested on the ground for most of their durations.

From Takayama-Frye -- I think the most vicious strike in the fight was Takayama's knee as they were getting back to their feet after the takedown. I can't believe that Frye wasn't knocked out or busted open badly. I'm sure he would have been with a better-placed hit -- if you have to take a knee to the head, take it in the centre of your forehead.

Reverse, actually. Grappling set the whole martial arts world ablaze in 94 with the UFC's explosion into the mainstream. Royce Gracie (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu), Dan Severn (Freestyle Wrestler), Ken Shamrock (submission wrestler), and Oleg Taktarov (judo/sambo) were the guys who won 5 of the first 6 UFCs (Steve Jennum, a alternate, found himself in the finals when Royce Gracie was unable to continue, and won UFC 3), and made it look like grappling was going to totally dominate no holds barred for years to come.

The first guy to really come out and demonstrate the feasibility of what later became known as "sprawl and brawl" was a fellow from the Ukraine by the name of Igor Vovchanchyn. He was a total unknown in 1996 when he made his debut to the West fighting in IFC's first ever event in the Ukraine. He put an absolute beating on Paul Varelans that shocked everyone. In fact, when he won the tournament (he went on the same night and beat a fellow named John Dixon), the IFC left the footage of Igor's victory in Kiev and ignored that it even occurred. As it turned out, Igor still wouldn't get much recognition until his strong showing at the World Vale Tudo championships, and then PRIDE gave him a call to appear on PRIDE 2's card (he's still with the company some 50 shows into its existence later).

Wrestlers were still dominant overall though, with Mark Kerr and Mark Coleman winning UFC 10, 11, 14 and 15, Frank Shamrock (and later Tito Ortiz) running the UFC's Light Heavyweight Division, and Randy Couture and Kevin Randlemann becoming the chief forces in the UFC heavyweight division. The biggest thing that turned the tide was PRIDE's decision in light of Igor Vovchanchin and Mark Kerr's first fight (Vovchachin knocked Kerr out with a knee while on the ground, but as it was illegal, it was ruled a no decision) to allow knees on the ground and soccer kicks to become legal. That opened the floodgates for muay thai guys to start really learning the finer points of takedown and submission defense and start tearing things up. What you see in MMA right now is basically the way its been for the last 2-3 years, where striking is as important as grappling.

(you'd be surprised to see how boring many of the "megafights" were in both the first few years of the UFC, up through about late 1996. Shamrock/Severn II is the most poignant example, as both men circled each other, doing nothing but, for about a solid half hour)

From Takayama-Frye -- I think the most vicious strike in the fight was Takayama's knee as they were getting back to their feet after the takedown. I can't believe that Frye wasn't knocked out or busted open badly. I'm sure he would have been with a better-placed hit -- if you have to take a knee to the head, take it in the centre of your forehead.

That's about as solid a thai knee as you're gonna get. Really, Frye was dominating the standup until Takayama used some of his vaunted Muay Thai training and made the fight. The fight with Fujita from PRIDE 14 is also pretty fun to watch, but the match with Semmy Schilt , a 6'10'' dutch kickboxer who became the 2005 K-1 Grand Prix champ, as well as his bout with Bob Sapp, aren't nearly as entertaining. They're both basically one sided beatings, which is sad given the fact that Sapp isn't very good.

http://www.youtube.com/?v=ocmf-BVMCEI

Quinton eats about 20 knees and a few soccer kicks before the ref finally jumps in to make the stop. Then Rampage finally falls over.

This sounds like the stuff I've seen! This explains my confusion :)
I knew that Shamrock was known for submissions, but I also knew that he's not really known for his endurance (lots of quick fights) so I figured he liked to remain upright and go for quick strikes + submissions.

I can't believe the ref didn't stop Silva/Rampage I earlier. That was looking really dangerous. When Silva is holding him by the back of the neck and just LOOKING at him and Jackson didn't try to defend himself or so much as twitch or raise a hand, shouldn't the fight be stopped? Silva had no choice but to start whaling on him again.

The human body can take a hellacious beating. What's amazing is that the concussion from this fight wasn't even as bad as the one Quinton had in his next fight, which he won.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3Jldn9Bdp8&search=Rampage%20Arona

He suffered a concussion on that finish (which I won't spoil, because its AWESOME, and of interest for a wrestling fan, fo' sho'), and ended up talking to God in the hospital. He became a born again after that and became kinda boring. =/

Most of his megafights were endlessly long stall fests. When he came back following his WWE stint to fight in PRIDE in 2000, he just didn't have it in him anymore, even though his striking was far better than it was a few years before. Shamrock was telegenic enough to merit being seriously pushed as a "badass fighter", even though he was never all that great. His brother? Different story entirely....

I can't believe the ref didn't stop Silva/Rampage I earlier. That was looking really dangerous. When Silva is holding him by the back of the neck and just LOOKING at him and Jackson didn't try to defend himself or so much as twitch or raise a hand, shouldn't the fight be stopped? Silva had no choice but to start whaling on him again.

PRIDE's a weird place. In Japan, there are no commissions to regulate MMA, so this sort of thing is almost commonplace. PRIDE was actually overjoyed when Sakuraba, their biggest draw ever, was beaten senseless and mangled by Ricardo Arona, stating that the picture of his horribly swollen face on the cover of every sports page in Japan was "fantastic PR for PRIDE". This is also a country that really got into Bob Sapp because he was a giant black guy willing to be exploited for large sums of money under the character of "giant stereotypical black man".

It makes sense to stop a fight if a fighter can't see his opponent (turns or falls with his back to his opponent, extreme swelling that impairs vision, bleeding above the eye) but I was shocked by that ending, particularly after watching Silva/Rampage.

I wasn't too sad though. Shamrock's legendary bitching out when Fujita fought him at PRIDE 10 (Shamrock quit while far ahead in the fight when he gassed) was a demonstration of how much of a real fighter the man was anyhow.