RAW 20/09/04

I havent seen raw in 2 months, but from what Im reading it sounds like I havent missed anything.

Besides Orton's face turn and HBK returning, then yeah, the plotlines are essentially the same as they were two months ago.

theres so many things that look like theyve either been rushed or ruined. like orton's face push. what was the point of having him beat benoit and then lose to hhh a month later? why not have a dq of some sort at summerslam, some pressure from hhh the next month to choke, a victory over benoit, then a slow drawn out feud with hhh to culminate at survivor series or something like that?

I also think they should have made eugene go heel by going the 'IM NOT A RETARD, IM AN EVIL GENIUS IN CAHOOTS WITH BISCHOFF' route - that way you could milk him as a face, milk him as a heel, and not saddle dinsmore with the retard gimmick for the rest of his life. everyone wins. instead they go the feel good route and culminate with hhh beating the piss out of him in a cage a couple weeks ago.

jesus, for not watching any wwe for a month Im pretty up to date.

Bill is completely OTM. I thought they were looking to do Orton-HHH at Mania? Instead, they've blown that match at a nothing PPV, and are looking to do it again at ANOTHER nothing PPV next month. And they're doing a "babyface chases the title" angle before he's even gotten over! Why would anyone want to cheer for Orton? After winning the title, he spent weeks running away from HHH and Evolution ... huh? Would the Rock or Austin have run away instead of fought? Babyfaces stay and fight, and if they get the shit beat out of them, it makes them a bigger babyface. Instead, they had Orton running into the crowd or up the ramp whenever he saw HHH, which is MAYBE OK if he ends up beating HHH and looks strong doing so. But no, he drops the title and now the fans are supposed to get behind him after weeks of making him look weak? We should we cheer? Because he jumped out of a cake? They've blown the Orton turn so badly.

bah, it should be " Why should we cheer?"

S Keith in rare stopped-watch-right-twice-a-day moment of inspiration re Kane baby angle:

And now, what we've all been waiting for: An interview with "Babykiller" Gene Snitsky! It's not his fault! They can actually keep milking this guy for a while. Give him "The Coat Hanger" or "The Abortion" as a finisher, and you're set. In fact, they could run a whole character angle for him whereby Randy Orton gets all the Divas pregnant, and week after week Snitsky attacks them and causes them to miscarry. And he can even have a catchphrase: "It's not a woman's right to choose, it's MY RIGHT TO CHOOSE!" That's MONEY, baby.

Although I guess as many people have made a joke like that as said 'I'm Dead Bitch!' when Rick James died.

Yeah, Keith wrote some funny stuff this week, which was nice because he's been phoning it in lately. He still hated the show though, so screw him (although there were a few unintentionally funny moments, which he was correct to point out).

I thought it was a disappointing show. The fans choosing element is a loser, I think - I want clever writers planning the big shows, not fans. The Kane-Lita baby thing has been horribly distasteful from the start, and just gets worse. Another future star being hyped in irritating trailers. The Hurricane looking like he's turning (who cares?) for no clear reason. A potentially good match between Jericho and HBK ended by interference from the not-in-the-same-league dullard Christian. A decentish six-man tag ended too abruptly, and by a poorly executed move as well, which is part of the underwhelming Orton hype. I was pleased with the end of the Diva Search, at least, since we won't have to endure it any more - but they had to remind us of one of the WWE's lowest moments in entertainment value ever, the Diva Dodgeball face-off.

The perfect closing line for Snitsky's next interview, if they bother with anything more than Kane beating him to a pulp, is "...and now I'm going to terminate you, Kane."

It looks like I'm one of the only people who liked this show. Granted, the Lita/Kane stuff was ridiculous (as always ... I literally couldn't stop laughing for most of those hospital segments ... Kane in regular street clothes WTF?) and the Diva Search stuff is also crappy but I was glad to see a modicum of finality for each of these stories. There were not one but two above average matches on the show. I disagree with you Martin, I'm really looking forward to a Michaels-Xtian feud.

I think it's likely to go a bit downhill now, as they kick the MEGA HARD SELL JOB for Taboo Tuesday into overdrive (read : coerce the fans into voting for an Orton-HHH match).

Are they really going to build a Christian-HBK feud? That seems really weak - I mean it was HBK-HHH not long ago, and now he's feuding with someone as third rate as Christian? Are they trying to tell HBK it's time to retire?

If Christian hit the juice properly he could be a legitimate headliner. Discuss.

Christian is good in the ring and great on the stick. The Jericho-Christian-Trish thing was a high-level feud. Christian was given his own mini-stable and the #2 title in the promotion, and did a good job running with it. Now he's keeping the momentum he lost when injured by re-entering the IC title picture. So I don't think he's third-rate at all.

I too take issue with the 3rd rate tag being stuck on Christian. If he hadn't suffered an injury I think we would be seeing him as headliner, or at least close to headliner status now.

He was hilarious in the in ring promo between Jericho and Bischoff, when they set the ladder match for Unforgiven. From promising that his "peepulation" would "riot in the streets" if he wasn't awarded the title, to his comical cowardice in his proposal for the ...wait for it... "no count out match!"

In the pub earlier I inexplicably ended up getting into a discussion about kayfabe and valiant efforts to preserve it in a post-kayfabe society, which led to the amusing recollection of Kane arriving at arenas with a Nike bag and blue tracksuit and his BIG RED MASK.

I really like Christian too. I can kind of see why he's viewed as mediocre, because he's small and has a relatively unspectacular moveset (party because Jericho and Spike Dudley are the only people I've seen in ages who are even prepared to take his finisher) and doesn't have much persona-wise beyond cowardly, vaguely comedic heel. If he has a proper feud with Michaels it should have some good matches as long as it's not just Christian hitting Michaels with a chair from behind for three weeks then getting superkicked to death and losing clean at every PPV.

i liked last week's raw too but i've liked all of them pretty much for the past two months or however long i've been watching now. it's still all fresh to me. i was also excited that christian and tomko interfered in the y2j/hbk match cuz that suggests the possibility of another tag team up between them, which is exactly what i wanted a couple weeks ago. i've totally warmed up to jericho since i dissed him on another thread. i like most of the raw roster now, even.

idunno, i'm still figuring things out so it's cool with me. no doubt if you lot ran a wrestling league it would the best thing ever, though. those eugene and kane suggestions above would make solid gold tv.

or i guess it was a snitsky suggestion. the babykiller angle.

or uh that was from an outside source anyway. nevermind, you're all fired.

I know it's Smackdown rather than Raw, but what the fuck are they thinking with this Heidenreich poetry thing?

And that women's tag match with two decrepit former greats who could barely make it to the ring unassisted?

smackdown has been pretty appalling for a good while.

Falling from such great heights as well.. Remember the smackdown tag tourneys? (weeps for the past..)

That big trade for benoit really seems anticlimactic now. Dupree/RVD/Booker didnt seem to add much to the show. If anything, it kinda showcased RVD and Booker as the weak links on RAW if you ask me..

I think it was Booker and the Dudleys (only good tagteam in the WWE) for Triple H, wasn't it?

I think Martin is correct.
The real problem with RVD and Booker is they were getting buried on RAW before they left, and after the move/draft to Smackdown they resumed burying them.

They're in that awkward group who have been big headliners in the other federations, and are talked about as if they still are, while actually being used a little lower down the card.

Yep, and it's no secret that Vince will almost always push his homegrown stars over stars created by other feds.

Which is why neither Booker or RVD have been given a run with the world title.