Knives

My knife technique is slow and uneven. The "curved fingers" thing, I have never gotten a feel for. I'd love to be able to chop fast, but things would end up all over the kitchen if I did. And I have these terrifying visions of chopping into my fingers and hands, so I am timid about it.

I recommend the MAC santoku as a great all-purpose knife (granton blade not necessary). It keeps its edge longer than most, and has great balance and a lovely curve to the cutting edge.

ALSO take your brand-new knife to a good sharpening service before bringing it home and using it. They typically come from the store with a decent but not optimal edge. This will add $5 to the price of the knife and 80% to the pleasure of using it.

My latest knife is a little Opinel folding knife. It makes me want to stroll the French countryside deftly cutting into cheeses and pears and hard country sausages. More likely I will get searched and arrested on the subway for having it in my bag.

What about cutting boards? I've been using the plastic ones with the grippy underside - easy to nuke with bleach water after use and not too dear to replace. But - we were given a bamboo cutting board as a gift, and I'm afraid to use it for 2 reasons: it's beautiful and it seems very very hard.

What a great link, btw - thanks for that.

My favorite cutting board material in terms of feel is Sani-Tuff, a sort of very hard rubber. Unfortunately it hasn't really made a splash in the consumer market yet, because/therefore it only comes in a fairly hideous buff color.

Polypropylene boards never feel good to me -- too slick a surface maybe? Not enough gravitas? My main board is a large butcher block that I got at Ikea for $20 and never expected great things from, but now, six years of daily use later, it's showing very little wear, and I am rather attached to the woody old thing.

Haven't tried bamboo. They are quite expensive, no? I read something somewhere -- they are more resistant to bacteria? Less? If you're scrupulous with the bleach I suppose it doesn't matter. The hardness would worry me though. My friend uses a glass one, which I think is insane.

MAC 6.5-in. Santoku Knife: Hollow Edge
# All purpose, extra control
# Glides through vegetables such as potatoes and tungsten alloy
# Resin impregnated wood handle
# Not dishwasher safe

!

Yeah, if you just hold a knife by its handle, it feels like a rolling pin: you have much less control. I'm surprised that Oxo or somebody hasn't made a clever new knife design based on that fact -- perhaps somebody has.

Some people find them to be a bit too light, but as such they're pretty good for chopping fast, take an edge easily and hold it well. So they'll more than do for me. Plus they look really cool, and the boning knife is vicious.

My Opinel was not at all sharp when new, but it keeps its edge very nicely now that it's got one. Time was, no knives were stainless! You've just got to be careful with tomatoes and such.

Anybody here sharpen their own? Also, anybody seen Teeny?

Teeny was just over there --- >

I did get in the habit of giving my knives a good steeling after every use.

I used to have a whetstone with the oil and the whole nine yards, but it was tricksy work and when I lost it in a move I didn't worry about it. Next time I need to sharpen the knives I'm going to see if my father has a wheel on his bench grinder that would be appropriate.

Those "easy" sharpeners enforce their idea of what a good bevel is, which I think is incompatible with (for example) these nice Japanese knives, some of which are beveled on just one side, and have a much skinnier angle (17 degrees rather than 25?) and thus feel much sharper.

There's extensive sharpening info on the web, like here and here. That first link does seem to like the Chef's Choice 120 electric sharpener, which I see on eBay for $90 or so.

I tend to use the big chefs knife more than any other though, for most work.

They do make that nasty callous at the base of the index finger really bad though due to the very sharp shoulder on them.

Yes! I generally get good result steeling my biggest knife, a cheap 10" butchers knife, with much less effort than it takes with my Henckels 6" utility. Also, I'm glad to know I'm not the only person who anchors the steel vertically instead of doing the whip-whip-whip in the air. I'm just afraid I'm going to accidentally kill one of the cats doing that.

Maybe I should just get a leather strop. (And wear a boater and grow a handlebar moustache.)

All the sharpening web sites say you should be able to shave your arm with a well-sharpened knife by scraping it at a perpendicular angle, but none of my knives, not even the absurdly sharp ones, seem to do that. Maybe my arm hair is abnormally tough? At least I know how to spot knife enthusiasts in the future -- bald forearms!

The Global sharpener I have has kind of two little whetstones that rotate with water in the bottom, one harder (or maybe finer) than the other. They make a lovely edge too, I use them before every time I use them (or try to) and they seem to always be arm-shavingly keen. I do have a couple of discolourations on them which shames me a little, they've come from leaving them out on the drying rack :(

Failing that, splash out on one good one rather than a set of cheaper ones. A good quality, decent sized knife will do most jobs you require of it (use the tip for small stuff, main body of the blade for bigger jobs etc)

I went to the Alton Brown website the other day and he's flogging some line of knives now. They look pretty good -- I had a moment of lust.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0001UZZ90/qid=1134483846/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-5887580-9796664?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=284507

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000DJYDY/qid=1134483846/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/103-5887580-9796664?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=284507

Regarding cheap knives: I too bet that a good lady sharpener could fix up your decrepit knife. Forschner/Victorinox seems to be talked about as the Best Cheap Knife but I have no experience with them. These Tojiros were also recommended to me recently as great knives for the price.

I think I'll wait for the line with adjustable angles. I just got the Kyocera vegetable peeler whose head rotates from harp-style to straight-style.

Also, I was reading on those Sani-tuff boards - you can sand them to resurface! I'm going to order one after the holidays.

This might be a stupid question, but where would would I find a place like this?

I picture you in Michigan, but is that a true recollection or just a subconscious inference from your Michigany attitude?

And what's the name of the place? They're all within a couple of blocks here -- I can go round and demand an apology for the mixup on your behalf.

The place is Bakedeco.com, but that's okay - I'm happy now it's here.

Did you get to try out that knife sharpening thing? I'm still debating if I want to get that into it, or just continue to pay the pros.

You have to think a bit about angles and bevels when you use it, and take into consideration the bevel your knife already has, and it definitely takes an hour's commitment on a dull knife, but the instructions are helpful. It seems like using it without making the initial effort to understand the why of what you're doing might be frustrating or unsatisfying, but if you do that, home sharpening does seem to give a lot of control beyond what taking a knife to a sharpening service offers.

You can get Japanese knives with a double bevel, particularly the western style shapes. Putting a double bevel on a single bevel knife is not really possible, the back side is flat all the way up.

Yep, I use regular fine grit sandpaper and then extrafine emery cloth with a sanding block on the sani-tuff board.

Finally got my sanituff board. this shit is heavy. And the surface texture is different than I expected.

My latest knife is a little Opinel folding knife. It makes me want to stroll the French countryside deftly cutting into cheeses and pears and hard country sausages. More likely I will get searched and arrested on the subway for having it in my bag.

― Paul Eater (eater), Friday, November 18, 2005 8:39 PM (twelve years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

YO I never clocked the post before but I "discovered" Opinel last summer when one of my family brought one camping, and I liked it so much I gave my bf a semi-custom engraved one for Christmas. Whatever you're cutting, this knife will definitely class it up in a rustic European mountain meadow picnic kind of way.

I live opinel knives, an almost perfect penknife. Very simple, I love that you knock the heel on your boot to open them, the simple ring lock. Much better than your fancy Swiss Army knives.

OOOOH I DIDN'T KNOW THAT. Youtube was very educational.

The Opinel is the Platonic ideal of the simple folding knife. I have never seen its simplicity and functionality done better.

The Swiss Army knives are too multiform to pick one version as "the" Platonic ideal, but I strongly favor the Recruit variant: long blade, short blade, can opener w/ small screwdriver, bottle opener w/ large screwdriver, toothpick, tweezers.

nb: a corkscrew on a Swiss Army knive is only favored by poltroons; it is fsr too important a tool to exist as a subordinated afterthought on a knife.

I am completely sold on getting an opinel now.

I have one and I probably don't use it for anything other than opening packages and it's still a great tool

Leathermen (Leathermans?) and the like surpass the Swiss Army knife in actual multi tool utility. If I can have one thing that’ll be my one thing and the knife is usable but an opinel is an actual good knife.

as a late-stage sufferer of smartphone poisoning I am increasingly drawn to single-purpose devices of all kinds; that's why I bought an electronic metronome instead of downloading an app etc.

I think I lost my leatherman while crabbing one year.

i've seen opinels in stores and thought they were cool. didn't know they had such a great provenance. now i want one.

i have a stupidly expensive chris reeve folder and a dumb old opinel no8 and tbh i think the opinel is better. it took an edge in about five minutes the other day

Trying to pick out a nakiri knife now. One problem is that the niceness of the knife is directly proportional to how unlikely my spouse will use it (he doesn't want to mess it up.)

lol what exactly does he plan on doing with this knife that will mess it up ?

I received a very nice nakiri as a gift several years ago and suffer from the same affliction. It sits on the rack and I just use my 10yo global instead

I think he got traumatized when he tried to sharpen some scissors on whetstone on a whim. He's worried that he will ruin knives now even though he was sharpening them before. I just got a MAC santoku and he keep using the shitty ikea knife.

xp - sounds like somebody shamed your husband for 'mistreating' a knife and now he's mildly traumatized about it. if the knife would be a gift you're giving him, try to soothe him and promise he can treat it any way he likes and won't hear a peep out of you.

The first gift he ever gave me, like when I was 21 yrs old was a henckels chef's knife. The handle finally split. I think he is just worried about having to sharpen it and also chipping it. I probably should not have mentioned how every Shun knife (at friends' houses) I have used was chipped.

Ok, I hate my crappy cutting board. Are you liking the sani tuff, Yerac? Rly don't wanna spend $80 on a decent-sized one right now. Any other recs anybody?

Yeah, I like it. I like how heavy it is (doesn't slide or warp) and hopefully it's better for my new knives. It does stain but who cares. I got the 12x18 one so that was only $38 and it's heavy enough I kind of wouldn't want a bigger one. I do still use my epicurean ones too for quick things.

I wanted a nakiri veggie cleaver but ended up getting this as my new knife for now. I spent the entire Friday watching knife sharpening/shropping videos.

https://www.cutleryandmore.com/enso-hd/prep-knife-p135306

These are surprisingly good nakiri-style knives that one's spouse can abuse without excessive guilt: https://importfood.com/item/set-of-two-chopping-knives-kiwi-thailand

I assume 12.5 inches is end to end and not just the blade? They are in BOISE!

I need to get new cutting boards and I can’t find anything like a sani tuff here in Australia and shipping one in is heinously expensive. The Japanese equivalent appears to be an Asahi so i’ll have to pick one up in January.

My gyutou and Santoku are really good and I got the same Santoku for my sister. Nothing overly fancy but really easy to keep a good edge on. I’d really like a Usuba and an kitrisuke next.

How are you sharpening your knives? I think I am going to just buy a 800 or 1000 grit King block to start and practice on my friends' crappy knives first.

Yeah, I that enso I ordered (it had an additional 20% off) supposedly is useful to use as a paring and utility knife while looking like a small kiriitsuke.

according to my knife/metal guru acquaintance (whose house in Paradise didn't burn!) this is what to get for actual sharpening: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004WFU7/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1
he gave me a little demo once and seemed to like to push his knife away from himself in his sharpening motion, which i'd never seen anybody do before. he had some theory about why he thought sharpening was more effective that way.

bonus: it'll get you high

oh, and aforementioned friend recommended using oil and not water or dry

I care for my knives with this guy; probably not going to spend the time learning to use stones in this lifetime

https://brodandtaylor.com/knife-sharpener/

Yeah, I was watching a ton of videos on different sharpening stones, grits, methods. Some need to be water soaked, perma soaked, oiled, or splash and go. It's a whole thing.

'burrfection' was the youtube channel I was watching where he has tons of videos of different sharpening stones/methods, stropping methods and how to sharpen different types of knives. He's not a professional chef, I think he just became ocd about knives. But I like how he wings it a bit.

I have a diamond coated steel from ikea for day to day and a global 1000 grit stone for more serious sharpening. I can get a fierce edge with these, I’ve taken my knives in for sharpeneing I once or twice along the way.

i like 'burrfection,' he's got a lot of enthusiasm and his sang froid about destroying extremely nice knives is...bracing

i use a wusthof 800/2000 and it's fine, but i'd really like some proper japanese waterstones and a sink bridge

I was going to get something to hold the stone then realized that I could just use the sanituff board with towels and maybe a brick on top.

I am very into sharpening knives on the whetstone now. I think I have the touch.

I did a knife sharpening class yesterday and it was somewhat revelatory. I didn’t think I was that bad at it but I got so much better at in a few hours.

Biggest revelation, which I feel dumb for not knowing about, is that your whetstone becomes less than flat very easily. We were to to bring our stones to the class we went over them with a flattener and the difference is remarkable.

I guess I should watch more sharpening stuff on YouTube or whatever.

oh yeah, did they make you do the sharpie grid on top to see how not flat it is? I haven't flattened mine yet. I have just been trying to be good about using the entire thing.

my newest knife is an Enso Bunka.

It was a 6B pencil but the effect is much the same.

Interesting how much work it took to sharpen my 15+ year old global vs my kamata (basic stainless one). Both professionally done not so long ago but the softer global took a lot more work than the harder kamata.

I suspect I’m going to get very nerdy about this. Sharpening knives is very relaxing.

Only available till the end of today (Sunday) but this documentary about master knife sharpener, Katsunobu Sakashita is fantastic. Some next level techniques on display here and his arch shaped stone is really interesting.

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/ondemand/video/4003127/

oh yeah pencil not sharpie. I don't know if I find sharpening relaxing yet. The time does fly by though and I am shocked that I spend an hour on a couple of knives. I am thinking of getting a splash and go whetstone because having to soak is something that I sometimes don't want to prepare just for 1 or 2 knives. I have only been honing on cardboard and want to try something else.

oh wow his fingers!

ugh stropping on cardboard I mean, not honing.

It’s kangaroo leather down here or nothing.

But yes, his fingers! I am astounded he can still hold chopsticks or do anything that isn’t sharpen knives

You both will enjoy this:

https://youtu.be/_jb1jNDQ-Bw

Oh wait that’s the kimono episode even though it’s titled as the Sumurai sword episode. Very weird.

all i can find to view are these clips:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p055p54d

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p055p54d

although i did obtain a torrent of the episode.