Badly designed kitchen

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We have moved to an apartment with a horrible kitchen. It does have a window over the sink, so plenty of daylight, but it's U shaped with the appliances in the worst locations (can't get to the dish cupboard with the dishwasher open, no counter space at all near the stove). The cabinets are too tall, awkward (I can't reach most of the shelf area) or too deep (the main storage for pots and pans is almost 4 foot deep - I keep a flashlight in there so I can spot things that have got shoved to the very back). To cope with some of it, I took the doors off the dish cupboard (I can reach about 1/2 of it now) and today we bought some wire shelving to stack the pots and pans on the too-wide counter top. I'm sure we'll come up with more things to make it workable the longer we live here, but I was wondering - has anyone come up with clever solutions to bad kitchens? Especially, non-permanent sorts of things.

Also, it's ugly. (but really that's secondary, I'm beginning to expect that in a rental)

Jaq (Jaq), Friday, 10 September 2004 22:15 (twenty-one years ago)

After years of apartments, this is easily the worst kitchen I've had: the cupboards are small, and all but one of them (the one over the refrigerator, of course) are too short to put bottles in; the sink is at the opposite end of the room from the windows and has no light immediately over it, which means if I hadn't brought in a light to clip to the underside of the cupboards, the sink would be in my shadow every time I stood there, making it virtually impossible to be sure I'm getting the dishes clean enough to make up for the lack of a dishwasher; there are only two drawers, each of them about half as wide as a standard drawer; and the total amount of counter space that isn't underneath an overhanging cabinet is roughly the same as would be taken up by a coffee maker and two dinner plates.

(You should see the quasi-juggling I do when it's time to serve dinner up and I have nowhere to rest plates, especially for the last couple months when my right wrist has been sprained.)

The kitchen is meant for people who don't cook: if I had not added horizontal space myself, simply putting a normal-sized microwave and small drip coffee maker on the counter would not only have used all the available counter space, the microwave would hang over two of the stove elements. It's a college town, and it's all little kids here, so things like that are par for the course; kitchen space is wasted space, for local landlords, but you need one for the sake of appearances.

Steps I've taken, though:

1) I put a bookshelf just around the corner -- cookbooks go on one shelf, large bowls for putting vegetables like potatoes and onions go on another, flour/sugar/oil on another.

2) Cheap rolling cabinet type things from Target. Took the wheels off, put three of them along the wall by the fridge. One is for canned goods and bottles; one is for spices and a paper towel dispenser; the third holds the microwave on top and pots/casseroles on the bottom.

3) I hang three pans from metal hooks over the sink (on the wall, not like ... where my face is when I'm washing dishes). It's actually very rarely that I need a pan other than the three that're there -- an oven-safe non-stick pan, a large cast-iron skillet (large enough to roast a chicken in it, with room left over), and a copper-bottom pan slightly smaller than the cast-iron.

4) My two cast-iron pots go, face down, on top of the cabinets. I can barely reach, and only a couple fingers, so I'm always very very careful not to drop them on my head. But it saves a lot of space without worrying about piling a bunch of stuff in front of them in a cabinet.

5) Whatever I can do ahead of time, I do. At first, my cooking suffered from this kitchen -- it actually depressed me, because it was very much like this sprained wrist: I would "reach" to do something out of instinct and habit, forgetting those "muscles" didn't work. The counter space is the big issue: I can put my cutting board down on the counter, but in order to make use of all of it, my elbow ends up over the sink (imagine an L flipped ninety degrees clockwise; the short leg of the L is the sink, the long leg is the counter and stove). It makes an enormous difference to my sanity if I put the dishes away as soon as they're dry, and don't try to do a lot of things at once. Sometimes I'll chop everything that needs to be chopped in advance, putting it all in little dishes, all the things no one in real life does except on cooking shows -- but if I don't, I'm competing with myself for space.

6) The kitchen table, in the summer, ends up being a produce table. All the things that shouldn't be refrigerated go there: tomatoes, fruit, etc. This is far from an ideal solution, but there you go -- there's simply no other place available.

7) I got a utensils caddy -- just a large cup, really, or vase -- to put next to the stove in the corner furthest from my hands when I'm working, because it meant it was the place I was least likely to need to put something else. This keeps the drawers less cluttered, although the caddy itself is still slightly too small to comfortably fit everything. But it helps: so does the knife block I put under the cabinets, even if it won't fit my cleaver.

Really what it all comes down to is: it took me time, getting used to the space and its limitations, and bit by bit I saw ways I could make up for it here and there.

Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 11 September 2004 03:01 (twenty-one years ago)

This is the worst kitchen I've been in in a while, but of course it's also the one that I've started cooking in. It doesn't sound as bad as either of those, but it is small and has very little counter space (and roommates who leave dirty dishes on the counters instead of putting them in the empty dishwasher don't help...).

My friend just bought a house, and the kitchen is ridiculously small and ugly and poorly designed and has old, old appliances. So he's wanting to just tear the whole thing out and redesign it anew. He *cooks*, so this makes a certain amount of sense. Still, it's pricey...

Casuistry (Chris P), Saturday, 11 September 2004 05:03 (twenty-one years ago)

We've been lucky to always have enough drawers, but due to short counterspace I got rid of the knife block before the last move and am now using these cool plastic knife safes (http://www.alliedkenco.com/cutlery/cuterly_knife_safe.htm) that clip very securely around the blades.

We've also got a cookbook shelf just around the corner of the kitchen - I hadn't thought of using it for storage, what a good idea. I had my enormous stainless bread bowl (also used for steaming pumpkin pudding in a bundt mold) on top of our cabinets until this weekend - moving the pots and pans out from under the deep dark cabinet onto the wire shelving on top of the counter freed up enough room for the huge bowl, a pizza rack and all the bottles (oils, Torani syrup, gin) that were on top of the fridge.

I agree that the key to sanity in any small space is keeping things put away. It's so miserably overwhelming to see what little space there is stacked to the brim with dirty dishes and pans.

Jaq (Jaq), Sunday, 12 September 2004 00:07 (twenty-one years ago)

four weeks pass...
The shelf is a great idea for a small kitchen. I have the same problem. There is a lot of floor space in my kitchen but no counter space. I put an Ikea white bookshelf near the stove and it holds the KitchenAid mixer, spices, cast iron frying pan on top, and other things to teach for.

The pans hang above a small round dining table that I bought to use as a cutting/counter area. It overlaps with a small rectangular folding table which is Kingdom of the Applicances which Must Be Plugged In (microwave, coffeemaker/grinder, blender, food proc. etc).

So the space problem was fixable, BUT horror of horrors my kitchen has an old-fashion un-separated sink. It's one large space instead of being divided in the middle so I have to wash dishes in a plastic tub. This is a major design flaw.

Orbit (Orbit), Sunday, 10 October 2004 17:48 (twenty-one years ago)

five months pass...
In part because of the horrid kitchen, but also because the place was completely uninsulated and ridiculously expensive to heat and cool (and also because it was inadequate for storing our ever-increasing piles of books), we are moving about a mile to a new place. The basement has lots of room for wine storage. The kitchen is small, but so much better designed. Lots of light. The landlord is putting in natural gas, so there will be a new gas range. I'm inordinately excited about all this. I can't wait to cook in the new place. You're all invited!

Jaq (Jaq), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 16:47 (twenty years ago)

Here I am in our small kitchen:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/slightlyfoxed/RachelDec2004.jpg
The worst thing is having to do the dishes with the cupboards looming over you - I like a nice view out the window or something. There was also not enough storage until Matt built those shelves you can see in front of me. And of course open plan means that food smells linger on in the living space for far too long.

Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 17:41 (twenty years ago)

I am excited as well!

Arch, at least you have magnetic poetry. And a washing machine?

Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 21:59 (twenty years ago)

Yes! Well, the washing machine anyway. The fridge-freezer was donated to a friend recently (we have another fridge that came with the flat), and the magnetic poetry went with it...

Archel (Archel), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 10:21 (twenty years ago)

I wish I had two fridge/freezers! Mostly freezers.

Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 22:27 (twenty years ago)

I wish I had a freezer.... the previous owner, who designed our kitchen clearly didn't do much cooking, but obviously didn't eat frozen ready meals either, as we only have a fridge with an icebox, and no way of fitting in a freezer, or even replacing the fridge with a fridge freezer. It's so frustrating not to be able to freeze batches of fruit, etc. or make huge amounts of stuff and then bag it up and freeze it for a lazy day. We can't make icecream, or even buy icecream and stick it in the freezer!

Vicky (Vicky), Thursday, 17 March 2005 09:09 (twenty years ago)

We only have an icebox now too :(
We abused our freezer dreadfully though, it was always full of nearly unidentifiable bags and tupperwares of berries and old stews and pastry and stuff that we just forgot to ever use up. The ice cream is a blow... but hey, if you get bought stuff and eat it all in one sitting: no problem!

Archel (Archel), Thursday, 17 March 2005 09:45 (twenty years ago)

one year passes...
I just spotted this book about tiny kitchens in a link over on SauteWednesday. It looks worthwhile, from the comments.

Jaq (Jaq), Monday, 31 July 2006 21:48 (nineteen years ago)

one month passes...
omg, I am fixated on craigslist, looking at rentals and going no no no no no because of pictures of their electric-stoved KITCHENS! Is it time to buy a place, so we can have a gas stove AND a nice big clawfoot bathtub? omg, scary scary thought.

Jaq (Jaq), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 15:30 (nineteen years ago)

Has the housing bubble burst in Seattle yet? Offer 30% under listing price for places you like. Hell, 35%.

Danny Aioli (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 17:09 (nineteen years ago)

We were despairing, looking for a house with a decent sized kitchen, but we've found one thank god. There's space for one of those huge fridge freezers, yay!!! No dishwasher though, but a proper sized sink, so washing the dishes by hand shouldn't be such a chore.

Just think what you could do with the kitchen if you bought a place.....

Vicky (Vicky), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 17:12 (nineteen years ago)

Housing in Seattle is still going full-tilt strong with excessive median prices abounding. Maybe we'll wait a year. Except...

Just think what you could do with the kitchen if you bought a place.....

Sigh. Oh SIGH!!! It could be completely wonderful. Vicky, do you have enough room to freeze meat in bulk now?

Jaq (Jaq), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 17:19 (nineteen years ago)

*if* we get it we'll get a US style freezer so yes, not in the whole deer sort of size that you can get in a chest freezer but we should be able to get a decent amount in, also the fridge should be big enopugh to do stuff like salt beef :)

Porkpie (porkpie), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:41 (nineteen years ago)

The kitchen (behind the shop) is the WORSTEST thing EVER. EXTREMELY small, practically no cupboards whatsoever and... well located behind the shop so the clients always know when we're cooking. It's just horrendous.

Nathalie (stevie nixed), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 10:16 (nineteen years ago)

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0009I5VO8.16.PT01._SCLZZZZZZZ_SS384_.jpghttp://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0009I5VO8.16._SCLZZZZZZZ_SS384_.jpg

I think I need this. Our house has a lovely family room with no practical place for a t.v. (and we wanted to keep the tv out of the socializing/kidplay area anyway) so the dining room is the tv room. I want an eat-in kitchen but it's too small to have a table in. presto, the above!

teeny (teeny), Monday, 18 September 2006 15:45 (nineteen years ago)

it's from target btw, and quite reasonably priced. Although our budget is still too tight at the moment. :(

teeny (teeny), Monday, 18 September 2006 16:17 (nineteen years ago)

My son had something like that - it was brilliant!

We ran over to Seattle this weekend for quick house-hunting and found something. It's brand new construction and now I'm worried I have been sucked in by the shiny of the NEW WELL-DESIGNED KITCHEN w/ GAS STOVE!!!!! OMG, the kitchen is really to die for - close to 18 linear feet of countertop, with electric all along the backsplashes, huge pantry, tons of cabinets, south-facing window over the double sink, big fridge/freezer. Plus the cabinets have enough clearance for my KitchenAid to fit under them.

Also - guest room! Everyone come visit!

The bad news - I will be traveling again for the new job, so less time to cook.

Jaq (Jaq), Monday, 18 September 2006 17:11 (nineteen years ago)

I hate my kitchen :-(

It's so badly laid out too, and we have no gas, so electric cooker, which is worse than the layout. I've got used to the layout, I haven't got used to juggling pans about different rings at different temperatures because you can't just turn the heat down quickly. OK, I know you can get better electric cookers these days than the old monstrosity we have, but it does the job (just) and we can't afford a whole new kitchen *and* put gas in and if I'm going to do a bit of improvement then I'd rather do the whole lot, so we'll just put up with what we've got.

ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 18 September 2006 17:52 (nineteen years ago)

Ailsa, every other place we looked at this weekend had those ceramic flat top electric stoves, which are supposed to be so great - but I had one in the house 3 rentals back and it was awful - incredibly slow to heat up/cool down, too easy to scratch, pans had to be perfectly flat to heat up at all. So I don't know about better ones being out there.

Jaq (Jaq), Monday, 18 September 2006 18:28 (nineteen years ago)

Good to hear, I'll keep the piece of shit one I have until we move then. Unless we can get gas put in, in which case hurrah, new kitchen to go with my new cooker.

ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 18 September 2006 20:50 (nineteen years ago)

My mum has a ceramic hob and it's a right pain. Where on a gas hob you just turn off the heat, on a ceramic hob you have to physically move the pan. And Jaq's right, they take ages to heat up too.

My kitchen is big and everything's in the right place. It's just old and bits keep falling off it. There are at least two pieces of wood that aren't stuck on and you have to be careful about bumping into them because they'll just hit the floor. And one of my floor tiles has come unstuck and rattles when you step on it. But the bits I need to work do work, I guess.

Mädchen (Madchen), Tuesday, 19 September 2006 09:22 (nineteen years ago)

Superglue is your friend Mädchen. I have been using it to glue falling-off bits back on in our current rental since we moved in. It didn't work to glue the handle back on the metal screen door, but on everything else (tiles in the shower surround, floor tiles, handle of the microwave, laminate pieces in the kitchen, etc) it's worked a champ.

Jaq (Jaq), Tuesday, 19 September 2006 15:50 (nineteen years ago)

Ha, believe it or not just glueing stuff back on never even occurred to me :)

Mädchen (Madchen), Thursday, 21 September 2006 15:33 (nineteen years ago)

Holy crap, Teeny, that thing is brilliant.

Casuistry (Chris P), Friday, 22 September 2006 18:05 (nineteen years ago)

:D I was actually inspired to find it when I saw on alex in nyc's blog that he'd bought something similar.

oh, and I got that itty-bitty kitchen book (from jaq's link) from the library and it was pretty good--best for people who are trying to declutter/reclaim space, though. I kind of have everything down to the basics already, and to be fair, my kitchen is merely smallish and not itty-bitty. Worth a read but maybe not a buy. Some good quick recipes too.

teeny (teeny), Monday, 25 September 2006 14:06 (nineteen years ago)

does anyone have any experience with kitchen cabinets from Ikea? We're getting ready to redo our kitchen and G. seems set on buying cabinets from there.

Sam: Screwed and Chopped (Molly Jones), Wednesday, 27 September 2006 18:58 (nineteen years ago)

ive been looking at those lately. i remember liking them a lot a few years back, mostly for the opaque glass and internal lighting. im pretty shallow, though.

sunny successor (katharine), Thursday, 28 September 2006 17:14 (nineteen years ago)

I need to see them in person. they look nice but something about Ikea just makes me dubious on the quality.

Sam: Screwed and Chopped (Molly Jones), Wednesday, 4 October 2006 14:10 (nineteen years ago)

one year passes...

I am missing the giant walk-in pantry from the old place. Must work on organizing this mess soon:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2047/1515435892_eb9bad97a8.jpg

Jaq, Monday, 8 October 2007 16:20 (eighteen years ago)

Pantry at the old place:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/110/308205678_fef31b08b1.jpghttp://farm1.static.flickr.com/99/308205648_9006f2bd21.jpg

Jaq, Monday, 8 October 2007 16:24 (eighteen years ago)

Well, I moved, and my kitchen is much smaller than I thought it was when we saw it at first :-( Mind you, it has encouraged me to be more efficient and tidy up as I go along. I still have an electric hob, but it's one of those ceramic ones that heat up really quickly and it also cools down a lot quicker than the old one did so it works for me a whole lot better (Jaq, I haven't come across any of the problems you encountered with yours). I feel I'm lacking a bit in surface space overall and I'm using every bit of space I can (knife block and utensil canister on windowsill, top of fridge & freezer as temporary work surfaces until we get the current work top extended, for example), but I have managed to cater for up to six people with little hassle so it can't be that bad and I've pretty much got used to it already.

ailsa, Tuesday, 9 October 2007 22:29 (eighteen years ago)

It wouldn't surprise me if our weedy American electricity were part of the ceramic range problem, Ailsa. Also, it was a few years back, so very possibly a first-generation of that type of thing.

Something we don't have in the new place and are feeling the need for - a microwave to reheat our tea. I've got a nice thick cozy and a cork mat that sits under the pot, but it's still nice to be able to nuke a cooled-down cup. Much easier than a double-boiler for melting butter and chocolate (thus essential for brownie baking) too.

Jaq, Wednesday, 10 October 2007 14:11 (eighteen years ago)

No, count me in as a Euro non-fan of the ceramic countertop.

Nubbelverbrennung, Wednesday, 10 October 2007 19:30 (eighteen years ago)

I didn't choose it, I inherited it. Compared to the monstrosity I had before, it's a fucking dream. Still, the gas one isn't so far away now that I live in a house that actually has a gas supply.

ailsa, Wednesday, 10 October 2007 21:28 (eighteen years ago)


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