Hades (from Supergiant, maker of Pyre, Bastion, Transistor)

i find myself using the Chaos trapdoor more often, too, especially when it's the one near the beginning. some of those early-game rewards can be really powerful later

I stopped playing Dead Cells after a weekend, but this seems a little more forgiving?

i dunno, it gets pretty hard. i mean, with both games (and the genre, by design you're supposed to hit a point where it's too hard and die, at least a few dozen times, so you definitely read THERE IS NO ESCAPE a bunch

but counteract with Kith's Short, Dirty, and Spoiler-Free Hades Starter Guide, "for people who want to know the basics of how to fight good and plan ahead without getting spoiled on characters, locations, or the story"

one simple thing i was confused about was the Call gauge - I kept on saving it up for a big boss fight, but smartly, it depletes to 0 after every room, so if you have a Call equipped it definitely makes sense to use it!

This will definitely be too hard for me but it's cool, and hey you can pet Cerberus

two things i really like:

- "One must imagine Sisyphus happy", and they did! took me a while to make the connection but it's lovely
- i love the freedom of movement in this game, from the very beginning. the dash takes you right through walls, and except for the flames in Asphodel, it's setup so you can't "mess up" or take fall damage. very godlike controls, overall.

I got this yesterday afternoon and somehow played it for like 6 hours. Not much to say that hasn’t been said, but yeah, it’s good. This is kinda how I wished the too-unchallenging Diablo 3 played.

I still don’t quite understand how the Calls work.

shit, i meant to respond to that a couple days ago! you probably already figured it out, but once you get a Call (via a boon), your God Gauge fills up every time to you take a hit, and when it passes a threshold you can trigger the Call. what i didn't realize for an embarrassing amount of time was that the God Gauge drains at the end of each battle, so there's no point in "saving" the gauge for the next fight, you should definitely use them as much as possible

this game is so great that i kind of assume no one's posting here because you're all poopsocking hades

i think my favorite call is Ares? the one that turns you into a giant human spinning Rift for a few seconds? that one can be lethal on bosses. i feel like the Aphrodite call, the one that charms the enemy for a few seconds, could also potentially be very powerful.

also, i am on the verge of tears because i've died to (what i think is) the final boss like 4 times in a row when they were down to a sliver of health. sometimes it's because my build is weak, but other times it's total manual user error, flipping out with nerves. i feel like i'm on the edge of beating it, though. 37 hours in so far.

it's amazing to me how fresh each new run feels, and how the daedalus hammers combined with the boons can lead to totally different experiences with the same 6 weapons. i'm torn because the gun has gotten me to the end boss every single time i've used it, but it's also my least favorite weapon to use in terms of fun.

surprisingly, i think the melee/dual fists are my current favorite (again in terms of fun, not effectiveness) it has a cool alternate version you can unlock with titan blood, too, that makes your special pull in enemies from afar to right next to your character there is a boon for it that makes the dash-strike "combine" into the regular attack combo, which basically means you can pull off a nearly infinite punching and dash-striking combo that is nearly unstoppable if you also have deflect built into it.

i think the melee and gun are powerful (for me at least) because they're both rapid fire attacks so it's really easy to add boon effects that trigger with every individual strike (like lightning, or effects you can stack like chill or poison). and same deal with the shield, which has a special that can easily be modified to strike multiple times, triggering side-effects with each hit.

so those are mainstays that are almost always possible, if you make a point of building that direction. but i love running into unexpected playstyles, being forced to try them out essentially, that are like mini-games in their own. for example, my last heartbreaking run was with that one laser beam cast (forget which god), but later on i added another effect which made the lasers target ME instead of the direction i initially placed them. the lasers didn't hurt me, but they did follow me, which meant i had to place the lasers on the edge of the playing area, then run into the middle, so that the enemy was caught in the laser crossfire as it swept across to the center. hard to explain, and i'm not sure i'd try to get that build again, but also delightful and occasionally really powerful when i was taking advantage of it properly.

i love that the underlying system of hades upgrades makes that kind of run possible almost 40 hours in, it's great

18 escapes attempted. 0 times getting past Theseus and the bull. I really want to stop playing but I also just unlocked the gun ...

For me, the short-range weapons like the gloves or the sword are great for other enemies, but I have a hard time fighting the bosses with them, as the bosses have many ways of hurting you if you get too close... So the only way I've been able to consistently get past the third boss and into the endgame is to use the bow, whose special attack (a spread of arrows) is awesome if you add some extra damaging effects to it. That, combined with the boon from Zeus that makes your cast into a chain lightning, seems to be the best way to bombard the bosses from a distance while trying to avoid their attacks. The spread of arrows also makes the three witches chamber on the second level a piece of cake, which it doesn't seem to be with the other weapons?

*hugs thread*

fwiw lukas, i'm at about 38 attempts now, but i was at theseus/minotaur at around the same time as you (15-20 attempts in i think), and unlocked the gun around the same time. my very first time with the adamant rail, i made it all the way to the endboss.

xp tuomas i initially felt the same with the weapons, like i needed something long-range to survive. but over time i've figured out how to effectively use the others as well (note that i still haven't beaten the damn game, though i've come close!).

i think for the bosses, particularly the late game, it's pretty essential to have at least one good long range option (whether that's the weapon intself, or a cast or a beefed up special) but also essential to have an attack that lets you get in close and deal tons of damage in a short time (while they're vulnerable). for me, so far, that close attack often seems to involve a dash-strike that repels, or some other sort of chained attack where i can be almost invulnerable for a short period.

some of my best runs, against the bosses, are the opposite of ranged - i'm just dashing through and around the boss, invulnerable for almost the entire time. of course, at some point the intermittent damage adds up to death, as i still haven't won this way!

then again, in other runs i'm hovering on the edges, picking my spots and being extremely careful, and also getting very close.

ok i need to play hades now

I'm kind of conflicted in getting the game! On the one hand, I'm tired of hard games and my consoles are littered with barely played rogue likes. OTOH the near universal praise and reviews like this paint it to be a possible exception for me? https://kotaku.com/i-guess-i-actually-like-roguelikes-now-1845131675

Sorry to be wishy washy!

hahaha

honestly, it does lean toward being a "hard" game. it is not as difficult as celeste - just throwing that out as a reference, if you've played it.

i'm tempted to try to compare it to the difficulty of dark souls games, but they're just too different. i've never gotten to the end of a dark souls game, because i always get stuck on some boss 25 hours in and get so frustrated that i quit. there are similar boss obstacles in Hades, but the difference is that there aren't nearly so many. for me, the Escalating Series of Bosses model is much more manageable when it's only a handful, as opposed to the dozens in a dark souls game.

all the same, the actual gameplay of Hades is consistently engaging but challenging - if you don't pay attention, you can quickly take a beating. it's not the kind of game you'd recommend to a newcomer to videogames, it kind of has prerequisites. (note that i'm talking about adults. obviously 6-year-olds can pick up anything and master it within a week due to their god-like abilities boons)

the thing is, leee, i think you'd like all the OTHER things about it - it's just so polished and well-done, i'm actually still interested in some of the sub-plots, 40 hours in, as they are dished out to me in small doses every once in a while. the persona of hades is very close to an unrepentant version of the grumpy dad in God of War. the difference is, instead of wanting to murder the little boy in the God of War's boat, instead you ARE the little boy, but you're trying to murder your dad, and he definitely deserves it, and the god of war is called Ares and he can upgrade your cast spell so that it shoots out spinning black-hole rifts

condensed down to a recommendation for your CNN appearance later:

• it's only $25, which to use an increasingly overused 2020 adjective, is "generous".
• worth checking out even if you're on the fence, just know that dying is part of the cycle of existence

sorry, CNN, the $25 itself is not generous, i just mean that the game itself is very generous. like, given how much enjoyment i've already gotten out of it (even if i never play it again, starting...tomorrow), i think i would pay $140 for this game

Thanks Karl! That's definitely food for thought.

the downbeat atmosphere draws me in quite a bit, i love how much of the voice-acting is calm and quiet. details like that keep me interested even though i'm not great at the game, kinda like a difficult book with a really nice cover

had fun playing with dad in the front yard. i'm just gonna admit that i'm s spear guy. it's the only weapon that makes sense to me.

(ie, i haven't figured out how to get the same dps from anything else - the spear special is the only way i know to reliably backstab in chaotic situations.)

pierced butterfly is nice, wearing it when meeting the person who gives it to you is cool too.

i have a different take on what "there is no escape means" now, a much ... darker take

okay the fists can be cool. i shouldn't evaluate weapons after trying them only once or twice, because boons.

It's really annoying that bull rush can't clear the smallest barrier or gap. Am I missing something?

KM is chilling on Olympus

sorta! i have defeated it 3 times now. there is so much to say. suffice to say, the post-game is very excellent. like, i'm not sure i've ever been tempted to hang around long after beating a game, but i seriously feel like i'm just getting started. poopsocks left behind on olympus

only click this if you want to learn the secret name of the hydra

it rhymes with journey

had my first clear today but it was pretty cheesy - running in circles while my health regen'd, dropping crystals, waiting for athena's invulnerability call to charge so I could run in and do a bunch of damage.

the moment when I realized this might work (reached the final guy without any DD) was one of my favorite moments playing videogames ever.

I haven't finished the second stage of the final boss yet, but I made a similar discovery about Athena's deflecting boons being the best way to neutralise the ridiculous area attacks in the fight... I wonder if there's any other way to do it for someone like me who doesn't have fast enough reflexes to dodge the attacks?

I made the plunge! It's already more engaging than the other rogues I've played, definitely because of the dating sim elements, though the voice acting and writing both deserve praise as well.

I've gotten as far as Asphodel, and have beaten Meg once, using the shield, which makes me feel like Captain America.

you're well on your way!

there is sooooo much to discover in the game. i read a review about being 40 hours and huge, interesting, gamechanging (potentially) systems unlocking, and that's very true. and also, the path to 40 hours is also filled with all sorts of things to find along the way.

this is a very, VERY polished game. it's obvious that they put a lot of thought into what is interesting and compelling at each stage of the game - absolute beginner, working your way up to the boss, and also what happens afterward. if anything, i am MORE compelled after beating the game than i was at the beginning, which is kind of disturbing and has seriously ruined my life the last couple weeks!

the music in this game is really awesome and there's the correct amount of it.

the game this reminds me of most is disgaea 1 on the ps2. in the sense that you go out and do your mission then come back to the underworld hub and chat with all your dudes. like karl said the loop is really satisfying and the characterization is done well (and there's the correct amount of it).

SHIT

DON'T READ THAT!

messed up the spoiler tag, getting mod assistance now, sorry

The difficulty hasn't bothered me so far, either! I'm not sure if it's genuinely not as hard as I feared or if it has so many other objectives that are within my grasp and thus distracting me from the difficulty.

that's good!

like so many other things in this game, i think the difficulty curve is perfectly tuned. it's well-tuned for single runs because no matter how good you are, you're going to be able to clear the first few rooms (probably - i mean the one time my mom played a videogame was SMB1, and she stood perfectly still on the left side of the screen for almost the entirety of the time limit, and then when the hurry the fuck up! music started and i told her she was going to die, she ran to the right and immediately hit the very first goomba. then she got mad and said she would never play a game again, and then hasn't for the last 32+ years). most likely, you'll get a little bit further each time through, and when you die it rarely* feels like you got totally screwed, and you'll probably feel like if you tried again you'd do better.

the difficulty curve is also well-tuned on a macro scale. hard to explain without spoilers but very true, i think

* except for those fucking poisonous rats godDAMMIT

a few tips for the final boss:

i posted this earlier but then had to have a mod delete it because i fucked up the new spoiler formatting tags. but in short:

• In early attempts, aim for specific Calls. Get one of the Athena (invulnerable, deflect) or Ares (invulnerable, spinning rift) calls, and if you can, try to pair it with a boon or two that helps build up the God Gauge faster, too. then, you can use the call to counter Hades most powerful attack - that huge-ass spin move that does massive damage. he has a tell, before he does it: a small thin white circle appears around him, and then about a second later he kicks your ass. if you have a good Call, though, you can activate it when he does the spin move, so you're invulnerable while also kicking HIS ass. very satisfying.
• level up your Keepsakes, specifically the
• In later attempts, adjust your build to fight Hades, rather than normal encounters. i say "adjust" because in the earlier stages you definitely need to be thinking of how to defeat lots of different kinds of encounters. but toward the end, start thinking about what you'll need to fight Hades, specifically. there are a lot of ways that plays out, but i struggled for long to just REACH Hades that it took a while longer before i realized i could tailor my build toward that final fight.

WTF IS WRONG WITH ME

whatever, no more spoiler tags for me. this is a spoiler zone. i am sorry

I finally did manage to beat the final boss! As I suspected, I needed Athena for that, having the deflecting dash and putting the deflecting boon on the shield's special attack. If you put some speed effect to it (from Hermes and/or from Daedalus hammer), you can just keep throwing it and it'll deflect a lot of the attacks on the way. This is especially useful against the dragon boss, as you can just stand in front of its heads and keep spamming it with the shield again and again with most of its attacks being deflected.

Karl's tip on how to use Athena's call seems very useful, but I didn't get it and instead finished off the final boss with Aphrodite's call. It seems to be the one call that does the most damage instantaneously, so if you other ways of deflecting the boss's damage and building up the god gauge, it works as an awesome finisher, doing hundreds of points of damage.

Specifically the WHAT!?

I can get to Dad Boss almost every time but can't beat him. Thanks though KM for saying that you can level up the Keepsakes, didn't know that. Boney's keepsake seems like the best, as far as i can tell.

Skelly, not boney, sorry

Yeah, Skelly's keepsake seems to be the best one to have, especially on the final two levels, where the bosses feel like they're almost impossible to beat without taking massive damage.

I also use Ruthless Reflex instead of Greater Reflex which I guess is unorthodox

I've barely played this so far, but I hope the nuance and detail and benefits of all these different boosts and whatnot become more clear through playthrough, though I think that's the design.

32 heat, that’s impressive crüt. I don’t remember what I hit my max on but it was almost certainly with one of the bows

I've barely played this so far, but I hope the nuance and detail and benefits of all these different boosts and whatnot become more clear through playthrough, though I think that's the design.

― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, July 5, 2023 11:24 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

they do, and you'll figure out which weapon/playstyle/boon combo works best for you.

don't forget to upgrade in the mirror, either

Ok, I tried this (read: played for hours) yesterday and I'm properly hooked now. I made it to the first boss with the bow, and then started doing even better with the shield (especially on a run that turned the bull rush into a shot where my character stayed in one place).

It's funny to me that so many 'casual' gamers I know, who get all intimidated by Dark Souls, have beaten this game. The runback to the first boss is longer than anything in a From game, and I get the sense that even when I beat the boss, when die I'll start all the way back at the beginning? That's way more punishing than getting to learn a boss without too much preamble and then never having to fight them again. So yes, it's my first real roguelike. :) I guess the accumulation of base stats and weapons is supposed to balance that out? But it puts a lot of pressure on learning a new boss fight, dang.

Anyway the game is great, super impressed with all the voice acting etc and it's as addictive as everyone says.

the first time it started getting a little easier for me was when I got the shield.

And I know I need to figure out things like equipping keepsakes and using the call. Special attacks (triangle on PS) can be used without restriction, right? Not sure what makes them special then.

xp

The shield seems to have it all, right? Melee, range, and defense. The bow was cool but I couldn't deal with the flying skulls, just couldn't shoot fast enough to counter their zippy attacks (and it wasn't always possible to dodge). The shield totally trivializes them.

I think the shield was my favourite in early runs, too. My tactic was to always use whichever weapon gives you extra darkness - not just for that bonus but to force myself to get used to using all of the different weapons and not just rely on one.

The runback to the first boss is longer than anything in a From game, and I get the sense that even when I beat the boss, when die I'll start all the way back at the beginning?

I guess the difference is that the run is the point? Each run is different, you get new things and talk to different characters while buffing your stats/currency. Obviously beating the boss is ALSO the point, but if you're brilliant at combat and beat the whole thing in only a few tries then there's a massive lot of game you're missing out on. I mean, I'm not a combat gamer, really, so for me the fighting is a means to befriend Artemis or to hang out with creepy perv Dionysus or whatever.

Oftentimes I’d surprise myself with a victorious run with a collection of drops that I’d never have anticipated… the one time that I won with a pile of Dionysus-offensive stuff was very satisfying because I never expected it! Everyone was drunk

It’s been a while since I played so I can’t remember what it was, but there is one Athena boon that I considered a must-have, I relied on it. Some kind of shield thing

prob the shield dash

like most well-made games, all the combos and weapons are pretty viable. Dead Cells was the first roguelike that I got into so I was pretty prepared for it, but I think Hades prob does the best job of any of these games in making this framework propel the story. I haven't played too many of these types of games besides hollow knight and the souls series, are there any more big ones I've missed?

Yeah, shield dash was the number one essential boon for me.

But you can't plan on or keep the boons, right?

Hollow Knight and Souls aren't roguelikes at all - the closest I've come to this is Inscryption, which is fantastic. But generally I prefer to find my build and cling to it until the end, so I'm still getting used to this.

xpost Roguelike? Hollow Knight or Souls ain't that. Oh, wait, games where any approach is viable? Probably lots. Like Hitman, or games where you can go either stealth or aggro, say.

But you can't plan on or keep the boons, right?

No, but you can make sure you choose an Athena room if you're given the choice! Possible spoiler but there is a way to guarantee who the first god will be, but for me those calls feel like a waste and I prefer to leave it to chance.

In terms of similar games, I just bought Slay the Spire in the Steam sale, and that has the same "multiple runs with many possible paths" vibe. The story is much more sparing, but I'm still pretty sucked in to the whole cyclical journey. It's also card-based combat rather than hack'n'slash, so maybe not actually all that similar aside from in my own brain?

I mean, I was friends with felicity for over a year before we discovered we both were huge roguelike junkies (she: Nethack, me: ADOM).

Souls games are definitely inspired by rogue-likes insofar as they have a version of permadeath, kind of a permadeath-lite (dying before retrieving your souls/runes), and a similar feeling of “having to learn something cryptic by just attempting it over and over”…

…but I think the inspiration river flows the other way: Hades and Dead Cells are inspired heavily by Souls games. Doesn’t Dead Cells even have a “git gud” Easter egg?

xp Slay the Spire is fantastic though be warned, I'm something like 500hrs into it and I still find myself going back for more, though maybe it's that I'm just not very good at it!

I can now get past the first boss consistently! But I'm getting a bit shredded in the next area, of course. Still using the shield, being able to block if necessary is just too good.

I get that it's integral to the game system to do a full run each time in order to keep acquiring stuff and strengthening your character over time, but I would still kill for a checkpoint after each main area.

Beat the Hydra on my first try! So I've gotten through some of Elysium once, mostly thanks to some Ares boons (the ones that add doom to your special attack).

Going to play this with God mode switched on tonight, have only ever managed to beat the first boss once, died instantly in the next chamber.

I really needed God mode. It helps but isn't a panacea. Just makes things a tad easier over time

OK, this game is insanely fun and addictive, and while I'm still struggling to figure out all the mechanics and approaches, all while trying to enjoy the writing and voice acting, I have been making steady progress, or at least what counts for progress in a game that keeps booting you back to the beginning. My own general impatience has started to become an impediment, though. I've beat Meg a few times, but usually I'm so kind of latently annoyed with the run back that I get sloppy.

Beat the Bone Hydra and made it a bit into Elysium, but I think I may switch to God Mode.

Playing on God Mode has been a lot of fun, since it makes it gradually easier but not always easy. Regardless, it's been a great way to grind, should I ever choose to increase the difficulty again (which I guess you can toggle on and off on the fly).

It kinda lost its hold on me, I got sick of doing the mostly-same thing over and over (although I know I'm partially to blame for sticking to the same weapon). Maybe I should try god mode.

Here's something I just started doing that's kept me interested. Rather than focus on level/enemy progression, focus on all of the other little meta progression things you can achieve. For example, just work on accumulating keys, to unlock certain things. Or try for purple crystals to unlock mirror boosts. Or grind for gems to complete chores and whatnot. A lot of these things will ultimately help you in the end, afaict, and they're kind of fast and fun things to focus on, making each run productive even if you don't make it that far.

Yes! That's much closer to the way I played it. Honestly, while I did think about using God Mode when I got a bit frustrated I would have never actually done it. Trying and failing and making small bits of progress is the thing, not just winning as fast as possible.

Finished my first run. Obviously God Mode gave me a big boost, though I think it was also because I (literally) lucked out with a great Chaos boon that gave me special up to 300% more damage. I was loaded out with the machine gun/rocket launcher, so I would typically just run around firing off bombs that, as I progressed, would just get more and more powerful. Plus, I had leveled up the mirror to give me health back based on a percentage of Darkness, and since I just kept accumulating Darkness, it kept me nice and healthy. Of course, one thing I can try to gauge God Mode vs. boon combination is doing another run with the current setup, but turning God Mode off, to see how far I get. Maybe I'll try that.

Nicely done! I think my first completion was with the gun yet that would eventually not be the weapon I found most succuss with overall.

Hades..... 2

it's pretty fun

Also just in case anyone was thinking of trying it: don't save scum. It doesn't work. It'll make you sad (heard this from a friend, wouldn't try it myself obviously)

Apparently no date for a switch release? I really enjoyed playing 1 on that platform, wondering if I'll have to borrow another of my bf's consoles to be able to play.

Assuming the format is the same as the first game, I'm not sure why you'd save scum??? The whole thing is a loop, right? And I'm saying this as someone who absolutely does save scum games like Baldur's Gate.

Game is amazing so far. They've done a great job of reworking the gameplay into something fresh while still maintaining the feel of the original. I'm so excited for the full release.

Saving does work the same as the first game; you can "quit" if you've reached an autosave point (e.g. clearing a chamber), otherwise you can only "give up" and start the run over. Though I only played the original on Switch so maybe alt+F4 was an option if you played it on PC.

I took an item I thought was going to raise my max health from a certain person in the second area, but turns out it just refilled your health which was already full. Immediately alt-f4'd and it cancelled my whole run out (and I really liked that run lol)

It was a good thing. I need to learn to stop doing these things and I only learn stuff the hard way.

Hades launched early access in December 2018, then released in September 2020. So all you Switch users (myself included) who are hoping to get your hands on this, you might want to be patient. My guess is the game officially launches late 2025 at the earliest.

That said, who knows how far they are into this one vs the OG. I recall the early access for Hades being pretty raw, and only Tartarus was playable

To clarify - this drop of Hades 2 is early access, not the full launch. Switch was a day 1 supported system for the official launch of Hades in 2020, before PS4/PS5 and Xbox, so I'm hopeful that's coming sooner than later.

Decided to wrap up Hades before trying Hades II, so I created a new game and had a week of button mashing to kill Hades a dozen times... now on to Hades II, which has really good music so far (and everything else)!