BLOODBORNE given Feb '15 Euro/NA release date, deemed worthy of own thread by ilxor

Lol, thanks, but hardly. Weirdly, I actually find these games a little easier late-game. You've spent so much time leveling up and learning the mechanics that by the time you reach the end it sometimes feels like you have an advantage over even the tougher bosses. Iirc, some people hypothesized that Gwyn in the first Dark Souls is *supposed* to be relatively easy or even anticlimactic, because he's old and worn out and you've finally graduated to take his place. Also, by the time you get to or toward the end, the souls no longer matter, and in fact nothing much matters. You have all the stuff you need, so you can just kind of lean back and finally play the game minus a bunch of the early stress and anxiety.

Anyway, Bloodborne was lots of fun. I think I might like the two DS games I played better, but this one was pretty neat in all its impenetrable craziness. Shifting gears to Ori then maybe Red Dead 2 next, but Sekiro is in the infinite queue at some point.

I just watched (and enjoyed) one of the "Bloodborne Explained!" videos and ... I'm torn as to whether the refusal of these games to flesh out or connect their stories helps or hurts them. (Though obviously the answer is probably "a little bit of both.") On the one hand, not really knowing how any of the pieces fit, at least not without a ton of independent investigation and some degree of guesswork and extrapolation/interpretation, gives you a sense of being lost in these foreign or seemingly irrational worlds, which is disorienting and exciting. On the other hand, there is enough detail and lore to perhaps justify/warrant a better or slightly more conventionally told story, which would give gameplay a more concrete element of mystery-solving, pushing the game/story forward rather than all over the place at once. Certainly understanding more of the lore (as much as any of it is meant to be understood) provides an emotional core to the games that is often only hinted at or alluded to, and I'd argue that elliptical emotional stuff is what potentially allows these games to transcend just sword-and-monster adventures, which makes keeping them mostly under wraps something of a missed or at least curiously avoided opportunity, imo. They're at once impenetrable but also seemingly designed to be better understood, just not necessarily through regular gameplay.

Darkbeast Carl eated me.

I've finally figured out how to fight the big sackboys in the Hibernean Jail (with some help from a wiki), and I was able to get a shocking stick. I can see this level being a decent echo grinding area, once I find the right rhythm.

it is definitely a good grinding area. those sackboys never really stop being an 'oh fuck' moment for me. my tactic iirc was KEEP YOUR DISTANCE.

The first few times I encountered them I had a lot of trouble. Then I think I looked up help and it said "oh, these dudes are easy, just parry" or something, but I had trouble with that, too, especially since they take off so much HP when they get you. My best solution was carrying a strong heavy weapon and just taking them down as fast as possible, and yeah, getting out of the way as needed.

Speaking of parrying (and for that matter, health regeneration), I didn't really mess with much of that at all during the game. At least, it's telling that I ended up with so many quicksilver bullets it wouldn't let me pick up anymore, certainly not something that happened with, say, blood vials. I only parried when it seemed to be massively beneficial for certain bosses or enemies, like those big trolls or, eventually, those executioner guys, but for the most part I was usually so shocked when I successfully parried a tough baddie (like the Martyr on the roof) that I missed my opportunity for a visceral attack. As for health regeneration, I never quite mastered or even understood that system. You hit back and get some health back, I guess, but my rhythms were always so off it was far riskier to try for a sliver of returned health than it was to just back away and take a blood vial. That is to say, I know I benefited from getting health back here and there, but attempting it on purpose probably ultimately cost me more health/lives/echoes than it gained me.

I think I mostly used parrying for big humanoid enemies like those ogres in the beginning and the Jailers. Also the hunters, actual human players, and the last humanoid boss. Like all of these games, the timing is different in each, and my memory is that it's on the early side, you have to know the attack is coming (from a read in pvp, or just when their animation starts but before they're actually swinging down/towards you).

My tip for the Jailers is that they have a lot of poise, meaning you can't interrupt their attacks with your own. So it's best to take it slow and just attack once between their attacks, back off and repeat.

Oh, man, poise: those brain suckers were the worst.

I'm definitely not good at parrying!

For the sackboys, my method has been pretty straightforward. During their first phase, they're pretty easy to dodge and knock down with a charged attack (though not strictly necessary). Then, when they're charging up their frenzy mode, you have enough time to get behind them for another charge attack + visceral, at which point they're either dead or just have a sliver of health.

i'm at the jailers now too. may get distracted by something else and quit but i'm enjoying this latest playthrough; it's been long enough that i've forgotten most of what happens!

lol, I'm not joking when I say that for most of the past couple of weeks I literally forgot I finished this game I put dozens of hours into. But that's me, not the game.

get behind them for another charge attack + visceral

Bloodborne backstabs, very advanced!

Josh, when is your Sekiro playthrough happening

gonna be a few months, at least.

Killed:

- Caarl
- Djura

Found/bought:

- Ludwig's Holy Blade
- Rifle Spear

I guess it's onto the Forbidden Woods next?

Ludwig's Holy Blade

I could not find or figure out how best to use any weapon better than this one. Worth every blood penny.

Forbidden Woods is one of the toughest and most atmospheric parts of the main game, iirc. Watch your step.

Blimey you meant that literally!

I got what felt like pretty far and even managed to put down the first octodad I saw without too much trouble, and I'm pretty sure I opened up a shortcut. Problem was, I seem to have gotten complacent against subsequent octodads, and I forgot where that shortcut was.

There's an optional something or another you can get in that area that I didn't learn/read about until very late in the game, so I went back all OP and basically had to kill everything all over again just to find what I missed, since I kept getting lost.

Yeah I'm probably going to watch a walkthrough before playing this level again.

No kidding. I was following a guide and watched a few walkthroughs to get nearly everything and I still kept getting lost. I don't think I could easily get back to the secret places very easily, either.

OTOH I beat the Shadow on my second attempt, and actually got close to it on my first.

There's a weird element to some of these games, where the secret is just to absolutely demolish something so fast before it does the thing - enters a new phase, uses a specific power, etc. - but in some ways that makes me feel like I'm missing out on a piece of the game design. Like, optional bosses and areas, why would you not opt? If the point was not to play something, why play at all?

Well, an overriding strategy for a lot of enemies is to quickstep/dodge/roll behind them and whale away/charge attack, no?

Anyway, I've gotten decent at parry attacks now, thanks to the advice herein! I thought I had to shoot mere frames before I was hit, which obviously led to a lot of heartache -- instead, shooting right after I see their attack animations start has been much more reliable.

Yeah, I still didn't do it as often as I should have, but it's easier to do than it first seems.

Attacking the enemy's butt is generally always the best rule, with a couple of exceptions. Fast enemies, for example, or a couple with inexplicably huge hit boxes. And humanoid enemies, which/who can be parried.

Oh, and I should say while I didn't delve into the chalice dungeons much at all, they're probably more fun and beneficial earlier in the game than later. I'm sure there are some difficult bosses down there, but the early ones I more or less demolished by the time I got down to them, and the rewards throughout were pretty paltry or of little use by then.

Byrgenwerth done! It's a short level so I didn't need to resort to guides much aside from the mini boss and the big boss, and I didn't need to cheese either of them (though reading Ron's attack type and weakness definitely expedited the win).

I futzed a little in Yahargul but seeing the enemies respawn made me realize that the game has changed.

I pretty rage-quit against Marty Lang, mostly because I'd run through my entire inventory of blood juice. I tried to do some leveling (I'm at 68 when I've read in some places 70 makes more sense) in Yahar'gul, but got pwned by a brick troll of all things (I know it's getting buffed but I probably need to revisit my strategy against them).

Cosmic Spider fight I only finally won by doing the *opposite* of a lot of the advice, which said to kill the baby spiders first. I fared better just going straight for the big guy after luring them away.

The brick trolls iirc are among the easier big enemies to parry. Martyr Logarius is the one on the roof, right? First, he's optional, so you can always come back later. Second, he was probably the hardest boss fight, or up there, but he *also* can be parried relatively easy. However, as I remember it he took almost all of my blood vials to kill, and adding insult to injury there's no way to even get to him without taking a little bit of guaranteed damage at least twice, once getting up that latter while an asshole spits darts at you and the other dropping off the other roof to get to the other ladder to get to him. Oh, and yeah, there's no way out without warping, which is its own troll move.

But yeah, go back to Roof Boss when you're stronger. Three phases, I think. The first favors hit and run tactics plus parries, the faster second one mostly favors parries, the third ... there's a magic sword involved that you have to either shoot or hit, I think, to limit one of his more annoying attacks.

Yeah, Marty is the jerk on the rooftop, and getting him is definitely annoying. I take out the spitballer on my way there, and *think* that I was able to reduce the drop damage once by landing on one of the wall spikes, but seeing as I actually fell off the wall once before, am willing to pay the health tax.

I think that I have a decent grasp of the his first phase, but I've been trying to replicate a visceral cheese, to no avail, although I do have a rune that lets me regain health for visceral attacks, which would mitigate my current vial crunch. I got the storm of swords phase.

https://bimmydraws.tumblr.com/post/639044491113873408/fun-outfit-idea

The Healing Church believes that any inquiries into blood ministrations will only further divide Yharnam: the city has been devastated by The Hunt, and we should be looking for unity and healing, not the divisive killing of the Old Ones and their spawn.

— Tyler Dinucci (@TylerDinucci) January 11, 2021

Some background: Rob, a Playstation Youtuber who is famously known for not being good at skillful games, has been stuck in Old Yarnham since the game came out, and so his cohosts, one of whom is hilariously overleveled, decided to help him beat it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b0BZJu-9ew

So I rage quit this for I few months? But I picked it up again and Yahargul some more after watching a stream; got to the One Reborn and on my third time I got it down to an inch of health before it puked on and killed me. But I punted around in Upper Cathedral Ward and to grind another level up, and I fortified my Tonitrus and was able to take OR down in relatively short order.

Marty Loggans -- DEAD! I leveled up 4 times since the first time I fought him, mostly prioritizing skill, but otherwise I'm not sure how I had such an easier go when I put him down. I did manage several visceral attacks, and I read about how to dodge his airborne attacks.

Sounds familiar. I think he was easily the most frustrating boss, but of course these games are great at telling you when you're not ready for something. Making him optional and kind of hard to get to was certainly one clue.

Hah, killed Amygdala in one go! Once I figured out how to get directly behind it, it was just a matter of swinging and its tail.

Love to see it, gg Leee. Btw this might contain a few boss spoilers for you if you're not done yet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TuqsXZhYWo

This game really doesn't help you does it? O find it frustrating that I had to go online to find out how to use the UI to equip a weapon after I'd been killed by the first werewolf 20 times

So I've decided if I'm going to play a Soulslike, it's going to be this one. I found Dark Souls 3 as beautiful and absorbing as I did grimly frustrating. I didn't really get far in it at all. I need a feeling of purpose, of progress, and the annoying things about these games is that they wilfully explain very very little to you, and so the urge to continue with them really depends on how much you enjoy doing the same thing over and over again until you get it exactly right. But yes, despite still being basically at the beginning I'm kind of enjoying this.

I think I may fall into the "'Bloodborne' is the best one" camp. Certainly its enemies and mythology and world building are much more novel and interesting than "Sekiro" (so far). I liked "DS3" a lot, though, too.

I find the impenetrability of the interface (the lack of tutorial) comforting in a nostalgic way, like 8-bit graphics emulation in other games. I don't know whether it is by design or by accident or a combination of both but I love this aspect of From games and games inspired by them

Yeah but those 8Bit/16Bit games usually came with some sort of small manual telling you a bit about the controls and the UI. I was so pissed off about that werewolf decking me over and over again - "Surely this game can't be THAT hard?". I knew I'd picked up a weapon, but learning how to actually equip these just wasn't intuitive in the least (you have four squares, the leftmost two are for your right hand, the rightmost for your right, but you're just meant to work that out yourself).

I think there's a controls diagram in the settings? Or if not, Google is your friend with these games. I'd like to think that collective puzzle-solving aspect is part of the design. Or at least I appreciate that they keep immersion-breaking in-game tips & tutorials to a minimum.

i don't have online subscription. will that be a significant problem or obstacle?

Not in this game I don't think. As long as you can google or follow a walkthrough/guide you'll do fine. Conversely, and to your point, in my experience *none* of these games are playable without a guide, and insult to injury if you do the wrong thing early that could affect your game hours later. It's one thing to require you to fight certain enemies again and again, but I'll be damned if I play the entire game again and again just to get different endings, different NPC interactions, discover new stuff, etc. That's a job for the obsessives that write the guides that make it easier for people like me.

And just to be clear, all the inscrutable NPC side quests are optional, it doesn't really matter if you complete them or ignore them entirely. But yeah, if you want to do it all in one playthrough, you definitely need to use a wiki.

Grrr... I'm only in Central Yharnam and there's a bit where a lot of zombie men are standing round a fire. I can't seem to kill them all. What I'm finding especially annoying is that even if I'm locked on to someone, my character will often just swing (or shoot) in a completely different direction

That's at the start, right? Lure them out one at a time by hitting them with a pebble.

If the lock-on is switching when you don't want it to, maybe go into settings and try turning off 'Auto-Target'?

Also sometimes with groups it's better to not lock on at all, once you get used to aiming swings without it.

But step #1 is definitely to lure out one at a time, and also you can just run past them all if you just need to get to the next area. :)

It would be nice if I had some pebbles of course. Every time I die I have fewer and fewer items at my disposal.

Really am getting tired of doing the same thing over and over and over again

The hardest part of any of these games is the beginning, when you don't have much in the way of resources and you haven't got the feel of things yet, and the hardest From Software game is always the first one you play.

You don't necessarily need pebbles, just attract one enemy's attention, and lure them back into a safe area where you've already killed the enemies. And it should be easier once you learn their placement in a given area, and also their attacks so that you can dodge/wait until they're done swinging/etc. It can be helpful to move into their range to trigger an attack and then back out of it, then attack when they're done, etc. Or, interrupt them right away if you can (though bigger enemies may not be able to be interrupted).

I haven't played BB for awhile, but even though it rewards aggression and swinging into enemies to get your hp back after getting hit, sometimes it's better not to get hit at all. You can do it!