Elden Ring: YOU DIED on a horse

Witcher RPG structure, Elder Scrolls sprawl, Dark Souls dialogue/lore/design/combat/UI and Breath of the Wild improv/central castle mechanic sounds like just what i'm looking for. just keep the stakes continually high and the procedurally generated shit minimal and you got me.

The summoning spirits thing seems intriguing, as is the absence of health bars and the like in those clips.

Oh the HUD is definitely just turned off for the demo, to make it look more cinematic I'm sure.

Ive never played Dark Souls (the way everyone talks about how hard it is put me off - I dont play games to get MORE stressed out). I love and still play Skyrim and BOTW, would I like this? It looks very nice.

The thing about Dark Souls and all its successors is that they're difficult in a very specific way; it's all about paying careful attention to things like the timing of your own attacks. It's not hard the way a bullet-hell game is hard. It's a slower-paced, almost meditative challenge. I didn't think I liked "hard" games either, but I did get pretty into DS1. I found it frustrating and I did eventually slide off it. A few boss fights aside, I didn't find it "stressful" exactly. YMMV of course.

That having been said, I'd love to see From embrace the recent trend of allowing players a temporary assist if they're stuck, a la God Mode in Hades, or the assist features in Celeste.

I think so? The difficulty of the games is way overstated imo, and this one is sure to be the most user-friendly version so far. It's more that you can't rush through or brute force it, at least not on a first playthrough. And there are so many different ways to approach the game, you can summon helpers and use magic from a distance if you don't want to get deep into the melee combat.

Forks otm...like, I get to enjoy the 'aimlessly riding around on a horse' mechanic of BotW and Red Dead Redemption, except when you get off the horse, it's Dark Souls? Yes please.

xp

Definitely overstated imo.... you mostly just have to pay close attention and remember things, and you're rarely put in a position where you can't take a breath (admittedly the only souls game I've played is demon's on ps3 but they apparently get easier from there)

To expand on X's point, I'd say the "taking a breath" aspect is a huge part of these games, eg. bonfires. The moments of peace and quiet are all the more delicious after having slogged through lugubrious combat

*part of the appeal of these games*

A lot of these games are indeed pretty meditative, in mood and design. They're lonely and emphasize exploration and experimentation. All the dying and setbacks become amusing after a while, with the reward being how easy stuff that once challenged you becomes later on in the game, as if to emphasize, "See? you've come so far!" The only real stress comes with the boss fights, imo, which is where the real challenges lie, with a few specific areas or enemy exceptions here and there. The bosses, on the other hand, both impede progress and are the least forgiving, plus are more or less the only enemies where you can see just how close you are to beating them while still dying. Or, you know dying in just a couple of seconds, which can be frustrating, too. Don't think I found any/many enemies in Dark Souls 1/3 or Bloodborne as annoying or frustrating as many of the enemies in Sekiro, though, but clearly different strokes, etc. Maybe I'm just blocking them out. I'm sure I can find some posts of mine to the contrary.

Also the boss fights are designed to psyche you out with their epic scale and music, but almost all of them are a matter of learning the boss's moves and how to avoid them, and picking your moments.

Yeah, I remember reading a recommendation that sometimes when you hit a wall, just turn off the sound. Though sometimes you miss certain cues when you do that. Regardless of moves or scale or whatever, there will always be some bosses that some people can beat with their bare fists blindfolded the first attempt, but you'll fight 50 times and barely make headway. I tend to get bored after a while more than frustrated, which is another reason to turn down or off the sound.

I definitely turn off the music sometimes (you can do that and leave the sound on).

!

Yeah! Just go into settings and there should be separate volume sliders for music and sound fx.

I never had a PS3 so it was interesting to come to the Demon's Souls remake after playing all the other games. Some of the levels, one bonfire and all, seem monstrously punishing compared to later stuff, but the bosses don't really have any capacity to surprise when you've been through all the more developed, multi-stage/gimmicky ones from later games

I beat most of them in one try so far

Didn't get a network test code :(

Tons of info & videos out there today from people who have early access. I'm trying to avoid spoilers for the most part, except for stuff about the mechanics.

Standing poise (instead of Dark Souls 3-style hyperarmor) = in (not sure how I feel about this)
Powerstancing (ie you can equip two weapons of the same type and get a different dual-wielding moveset) = in
Mixing your own combo potions that can make you explode = sure why not
Solo hosts can't be invaded unless they use a few items = ok, fine
Invaders get a compass to see what direction the host is = sick
Invaders also get an item to quickly vanish from the host's world and reappear nearby = oh my god

It really does seem like a blend of all their games plus a bunch of new stuff, can't wait.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzFR5HsPcng

all sounds cool. I have no problem with spoilers, because not only will I forget by the time I get it, I can't play any of these games without walkthrough help anyway lol.

i have the same problem/gift with forgetting everything! really comes in handy on very rare occasions

Just finished that video and have some thoughts. One, I've never played Dark Souls II because I've ... well, I guess I just skipped it, but I've heard mixed things (and there are essentially two versions of it, for that matter). But it is interesting that some of its elements have made their way to other games, despite its reputation as a disappointment. For example, as I understand it your health can be halved in DS2, and a similar mechanic was brought into Sekiro. And according to this video, power stances from DS2 have made their way to this one, too. Second, I've never used magic in any of these games, because choosing magic is like choosing an entirely different, novel way to play the game, and if you're only going to play it once I'm not sure magic is the way to do it. But maybe it is in this game, because magic looks super cool. Third, I really hope this plays well on PS4 (and other last generation systems), but I have a bad feeling between it being open world and generally newer than the past several From games it might really benefit from the speed and power of newer systems. That's one advantage of (as this video points out) From never being on the tech vanguard, because it means the games generally don't *need* next gen tech to run. (I know Demon's Souls is PS5 exclusive, but those that have played it, do you think it could run on a PS4?)

Anyway, I can already tell there are going to be a lot of funny videos generated by this game.

Oh, also, looks like you don't take fall damage when you jump, which would have been a very perverse thing for From to do, so I'm glad they didn't do it! Or at least, maybe there are height restrictions/allowances? And I like how there is environmental damage that can be done by at least bosses, which I know was in "Sekiro," though I can't recall if it was introduced there.

Demon's Souls is quite a tech showcase, it wouldn't have been able to run at that framerate on ps4, and some of the lighting/particle effects look like they would have been a big stretch too

I like Dark Souls 2 to some degree, some dispiritingly shit world design like the infamous Earthen Peak Elevator Jaunt travesty aside. It's like a difficult 3rd album that isn't among the classics but fits a certain mood when you happen to want it. I found the DLC far too much of a grim slog though

Elden Ring looks unreasonably good, can't wait

This game looks fun, and by early accounts the open world design is supposed to be good, but I can't help but wonder whether the openness actually adds much to the Souls formula. The main draw of the world design in DS1 (admittedly the only one of these I've played) was for me, its labyrinthine density. Eldenringland just looks kinda vast and drab to me.

i was moderately interested in this game, but after watching some of those videos posted above i am now EAGERLY ANTICIPATING. my only problem is i don't have a system for it, and i was leaning toward getting a steam deck rather than a ps5.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9DWTt37khU

Fwiw, both videos note the difficulty of the first mandatory boss.

i showed the game a friend of mine who really likes dark souls, and he seemed to be a bit disappointed at first. i think he was thinking of it as a souls-like game, which, it is in some ways of course, very much so. but just being open world and adding jumping completely changes it. it reminds me of GTAIII or breath of the wild in terms of how those games were a departure from the games they built on

Souls-like.

And something else I was thinking about, given From's propensity for hidden walls/loot/enemies/NPCs/entire levels and/or alternate endgames, I wonder what that portends for an open world game? Gonna be a lot of OCD dudes slashing at every bush, rock or piece of foliage, looking for secret stuff, a la the first Zelda.

To be honest the open world part isn't particularly compelling to me. I do like the idea of all the new handcrafted zones that are the equivalent of large Dark souls areas, and a whole bunch of new build options and mechanics (and invasions, of course).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEypd23I0pQ

here's footage of the PS4 version - it seems like it runs without any serious issues or significant visual downgrades. i got into the network test on PS4 so i'll see how it is in a few hours from now.

i'm not at all concerned about the open world, all the footage of the network test has made it very clear that it's avoiding all the common open world pitfalls (repetitive content, big for the sake of being big, etc.) & is very dense with unique content. there are at least 10 bosses in the network test area alone (which is estimated to be around 1/12 of the full game's map). it's a big change, sure, but i don't think anywhere near as radical a shift as say GTA3 or BOTW were - the core gameplay is still very much the same despite the change in environmental scale.

For example, as I understand it your health can be halved in DS2, and a similar mechanic was brought into Sekiro.

DS2's max health decreasing on death (in increments down to a min of 50%) was more of an iteration on Demon's Souls' mechanic where you lost half your max health when you were in 'soul form' opposed to 'human form', which happened upon dying while human. in both cases, the game was generally balanced around the halved max health, with more than that being a bonus, but it was still kinda presented as a punishment. i think both were intended to give the player another incentive to go into human form, which enabled being invaded as well as summoning other players as well as removing the max health penalty. DS3 improved upon this by having embers, which worked the same way in enabling multiplayer, provide a bonus to your max health instead.

there wasn't any sort of max health restriction upon death mechanic in Sekiro though, and there doesn't seem to be in Elden Ring either.

DS2 is one of the weaker souls games but it's still worth playing. the issues with it are largely that the encounter design isn't quite as tight, the world design is clumsier & it rarely reaches the same sorts of high-point boss fights as the best of the series. i'd still put it above Demon's Souls at least.

i may be a minority opinion here, but i don't worry at all about whether something can run well enough on a certain machine. i can count the number of times i have been bothered by the framerate/slowdown of a game on one hand. i think part of it is that i came to gaming age playing games like LIFE FORCE. the slowdown was part of the game. the bug became the feature. aiming for this perfect-smooth framerate ideal is understandable but also kind of disappointing. it's just different, i guess

blighttown was pretty miserable at times in the original console versions of ds1 due to all the slowdown. it's certainly something to be concerned about & can make experiences much worse. with cross-gen games like this, it does happen sometimes that the last-gen versions are significantly inferior due to cutting corners trying to get the game to run on hardware they weren't focusing on, but that thankfully doesn't seem to be the case here at all.

IDK I think having a smooth frame rate is critical for a game like this where you have to time movements precisely. And while 60 is nice, 30 is perfectly good as long as it stays consistent. I played DS1 on Switch and it runs great!

As a relatively recent returner to games, I've learned my lesson the hard way. When I got "Doom" for the Switch it kinda ran like shit, even after a few updates. The slowdowns definitely affected game play in such a fast paced game, and even things like jumping were impacted. Like, you would run at a couple of spots (even with no enemies) and suddenly things would slow down, right before you pressed jump, and you would fall to your death. But tbf, "Doom" is almost uniquely busy and fast paced, and yeah, I can't think of another game off the top of my head with issues like that.

That said, I sort of suspect at least some of my problems with "Sekiro" were related to the frame rate. Usually I don't notice/care, but that game was all about timing, and while it could have been me (I mean, for sure it was me), it's also possible it was just that much trickier for me at 30fps than it would have been at 60.

there wasn't any sort of max health restriction upon death mechanic in Sekiro though

Oh, I just meant the mechanic that makes you lose half your souls or whatever. And gives everybody dragonrot. There's a cost of dying, which I found irritating since these games are built around dying over and over again. DS1 and DS3 don't have that cost, and Bloodborne gives you a shot to get some echoes back, too.

I never minded slow downs either, it's like slo mo at a dramatic moment.

Glad the PS4 version runs well, I never cared about graphics but had to admit that 60fps is really nice after playing the DS1 remaster and now DS3 on PS5. But I played all of the other games at 30fps for hundreds of hours and had a great time, so it's definitely not essential.

very positive impressions

https://kotaku.com/elden-ring-may-just-reinvent-the-open-world-genre-1848093261

I look forward to suddenly earning souls from some NPC that dies fighting enemies on the other side of the map.

I keep wondering if I should give the other From games a shot? I just got incredibly fed up with BB but maybe having a shield would make me feel better? (Probably not.)

On the one hand having experience in one of these games helps with all of them since they have some basics in common, but on the other hand, ER looks to be the most user-friendly of them all (from little things like the menus and upgrade systems, to how the combat system seems to align with what you see onscreen in a more intuitive way, rather than having to look up online how combos/poise/parries/etc work...that's mostly for pvp though).

Generally speaking though Dark Souls 1 and 2 are slower paced, while the combat in Bloodborne is faster (and DS3 is somewhere in-between).

Shields in these games are mostly there to taunt you and weigh you down.

i have played defense heavy builds to some advantage in these games on occasion; it's a preferred method. it makes me shit at pvp tho!

I haven't used a shield in DS3 since my first playthrough, but I might use one for ER! For one thing, there's a shield weapon art (or "ash of war" I guess) that acts as both a normal parry AND can parry spells (and turn them into little magic swords you send back):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BBLmt_DI50

In the pvp world, there's been a lot of talk of the big changes from Dark Souls 3, particularly:

-No guaranteed combos, ie hitting someone once doesn't necessarily mean you can hit them again if they decide to roll out of it. In DS3, most small and medium weapons had a guaranteed 2-hit combo on normal attacks, with a shorter stun window after that so the other person could get away.

-Backstabs are de-emphasized, and no one's sure if they're "working as intended" or not. Basically the backstab doesn't work if the other person isn't perfectly aligned with your character, or possibly if they're in any kind of animation. In DS3, it would work as long as the other person wasn't moving away from you, meaning that you could sneakily backstab someone if they were in a long animation (like after swinging a large weapon, or casting a healing spell). I enjoyed that system, but it makes sense that From is trying to smooth over elements that looked or felt weird to anyone not super versed in the mechanics.

I'm all for the changes if they make the pvp more intuitive and appealing to people. Although I hope there are some good unparryable attacks to use when someone keeps throwing out parries, since that still seems strong, and in DS3 you could run around behind them, use a kick, etc.

This looks really good. I mean, it's very Soulsy and sometimes these things can feel like Scategories. Just replace bonfire with lamp; souls with blood echoes etc...
But I'm down with this. It looks a lot more open and less fiendishly claustro than Bloodborne. I also like how you can actually jump. There also seem to be a few more NPCs about the place, so it's got more of a Witchery vibe to it. Yeah looking forward to it

This is gonna own me isn't it.

There has been much Oroboro watching in our household this past month

After feeling a bit not-sure about parts of the DLC, I'm now at the Church District area that's like a cross between Liurnia, Raya Lucaria and New/Old Anor Londo and omg this game has just ramped up. Absolutely love this bit

It's a shame the Suppressing Pillar is just a cool viewing tower with a single item at the top. Felt a bit anticlimactic to go all the way there and not much to do

Fizzles, I skipped that Salamander fwiw. I've left a marker to go back when I'm a bit more powered up

I have dropped my trusty Blasphemkus Blade and currently sport a Quality Milady (lol, the names, yes) with the Wing Stance Ash, which is great fun and very effective in melee.

Beat the Hippoporcupine last night with my two NPC summons. Couldn't imagine fighting these bosses solo really

Church District is indeed amazing, just a beautiful blend of environments and challenges. You must be close to Scadutree Avatar.

Hm I’m at the same part. Just got burnt by a magma dragon in the pit (after clearing the way to Jagged Peak). I dunno if I’m enthralled by this new world but I certainly could see myself living here

I'm on a break, I fell into a sort of dream-come-true musical collab (fgti, I'm just going to assume you know each other) and now I will feel bad about myself if I play ER instead of working on this at every opportunity.

Fizzles, I skipped that Salamander fwiw. I've left a marker to go back when I'm a bit more powered up

jordan, you need to get your priorities right.

i just had to decide whether to explore a new shadow realm area or watch beverley hills cop 3 we all have to make tough calls.

has anyone been to finger ruins of dheo yet? some incredibly creepy enemies, new ones, but also those horrible hand things.

Don't really know how I got there but the moment I arrived and looked round at the um decor I thought gtfo miyazaki are you really doing this?

Fizzles and LG otm on the overall world design - it feels knotty on a larger scale than the base game but seems easier to forget where I haven't explored. Like I did Bonny Village days ago but until today completely failed to notice the obvious 2 bridge route on the map going out to a huge fucking building in a lake.

I've had a bit of a break but a session this afternoon - cathedral (as per last paragraph), cracked into church district, explored cerulean coast and temple town a bit more.

Though I suppose part of it is that it's possible to open up a lot of the map quickly - my brain was a bit overloaded with gloomy locations from the first week's play.

Lol, I was watching a video the other day and realized I totally missed a route from Bonny Town where you can climb the hill by the perfumer's tree and go into a poison swamp (tm).

Okay Shadow Keep is easily the best legacy dungeon since Stormveil. Absolutely staggering!

Speaking of Bonny Village, anyone notice the shedded snake skin on the outskirts? I wonder what that's all about. Could be something to do with Messmer, but looks more like Eiglay, the Rykard serpent.

I found it very funny that the route up to Bonny Village is a very long ladder, where people write soapstone messages saying "Visions Of Snake" asa reference to Metal Gear Solid. Then you get to the top and there literally is a snake!

But yeah, I've gone from finding the first area of the DLC a bit stretched out and empty to being bowled over by the sheer number of paths I can go down to explore. Really need a system to let me come back to areas I've explored but not properly!

It really opens up when you start exploring the Shadow Keep, doesn't it, although after taking down that hippopotamus thing hardcore the dude riding a boar and the Scadutree Avatar seem significantly more difficult.

just killed the hippo - which i found plenty difficult thanks - but am heading back to the temple ruins and Taylew's Ruined Forge before going full Shadow Keep.

Bumped into the Scadutree Avatar! That was a surprise. Managed to somehow get it down to about 15% health on first try by just keeping very close to its left foot and smacking away.

Shadow Keep is just a maze of alternating branches. I keep going back to the various grace sites and realising there's a little path I forgot to go down, leading to another three paths, leading to yet another split! You can get so beautifully lost in there, but man, I am never going to find everything!

Yeah the boar rider dude is mega hard. Scadutree Avatar took me a good twenty goes or so, and then that weird thing of the time you beat it you have three or four potions left.

I tend to find sometimes the boss seems on beast mode and just annihilates you, and you know from early it is doomed, but other times it's like the game goes easy on you. Maybe just luck.

There definitely seems an RNG aspect where a boss will go *absolutely fps destroyingly mad* at you, lining up all its worst multi-move combos at lightning speed, and still hammering away well after you're dead (which happens after about twenty seconds). and then yes, other times where it acts like a big softie that just wants to play with a ball of wool in the corner while you wale on it.

Absolutely! Sometimes that happens and I'm thinking what's the point may as well just restart the PS5. I remember with the Elden Beast trying it absolutely loads then the time I beat it I just got sort of stuck behind it and walloped away until it was dead, had loads of potions left etc.

Haha, okay, let me eat my words about Scadutree Avatar

The first time I fought it, I somehow got stuck on its foot and was able to wale on it without any repercussions for a while

I was wondering if you meant you got to the end or just phase one? Some of the attacks are horrible.

Another thing I hate is trying to get your summon in as it pummels you.

So apparently it's pronoucned "Shadowtree", not "Scoobydoo Tree"

I was wondering if you meant you got to the end or just phase one? Some of the attacks are horrible.

Another thing I hate is trying to get your summon in as it pummels you.

― LocalGarda, Monday, 8 July 2024 15:00 (eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

YES! Why can't you summon until you're a step into the arena?! So annoying! And he just fires those stupid thorns at you before the fog has barely cleared.

Yeah, first phase - what a mean trick! I'm putting a skull on that bit of the map and coming back later with some power-ups.

SPOILERS: I take it he has three phases, based on the messages outside the boss door? *Skee-lo voice*: How am I gonna compete with that?

Yeah he's a nasty one for sure.

xp yeah scadu is the olde English way of spelling shadow supposedly. A la gael for jail

Learned something new today, I guess. I learned about fig wasps last night! Learning.

I had one of those "maybe I'll respec" moments last night after I started to feel guilty about Ordovis'ing my way through the DLC. Backed up and Larval Tear'd a Backhand Blade build. Then restored backup and Larval Tear'd another bloody build. Bleed builds do not please my synapses. I don't know why. There's an air of desperation about them that I just don't like, I like the methodical quality of a bonk bonk

ikwym. as mentioned before Bloodborne dex build was my intro to soulsborne, so bleed builds came naturally, but over time with DS I've adapted, and with this STR-FAI build I've embraced my inner bonk-bonk - there's something hypnotic about the timing of it all. roll, bonk, run, bonk, dodge, bonk, heal, bonk etc. obv i still mainly run in and spam R1 until after I run out of stamina.

Heh I could see that both ways...desperation because you feel the pressure to keep up the attack chains to trigger bleed, but you're also delaying gratification (less damage per hit but you get those big bleed bursts later on), compared to the immediacy of a hard-hitting bonk. That's why I'm so psyched that my current build has both backhand blades and huge bonks.

I wish I could back up on PS5. God knows what'll happen when I want yo reply the DLC again. Will I have to fight Mohg and Radahn all over again? I hope not!

You should be able to upload one cloud save, at least (I think people do some malarky with putting saves on USBs too, but I've never tried that).

I don't know what happened with my backup. My initial play through, I was about 100 hours in and at RL 150, and my save file got corrupted. I cried about it to Sony and they did nothing. Then I subsequently started again and dumped about 500 hours into creating five different amazing competitors at different levels, all the ashes and weapons times ten, all craft mats, was duelling like a mf.

Stopped playing for a year and a bit. Came back to the PS5 and... it's my initial play through, my original character, miraculously and horribly reappeared. But it's nice. I'm OK with it. Ordovis and some crucible armour is waging a holy war on these scadu-y losers