Elden Ring: YOU DIED on a horse

xp

Definitely overstated imo.... you mostly just have to pay close attention and remember things, and you're rarely put in a position where you can't take a breath (admittedly the only souls game I've played is demon's on ps3 but they apparently get easier from there)

To expand on X's point, I'd say the "taking a breath" aspect is a huge part of these games, eg. bonfires. The moments of peace and quiet are all the more delicious after having slogged through lugubrious combat

*part of the appeal of these games*

A lot of these games are indeed pretty meditative, in mood and design. They're lonely and emphasize exploration and experimentation. All the dying and setbacks become amusing after a while, with the reward being how easy stuff that once challenged you becomes later on in the game, as if to emphasize, "See? you've come so far!" The only real stress comes with the boss fights, imo, which is where the real challenges lie, with a few specific areas or enemy exceptions here and there. The bosses, on the other hand, both impede progress and are the least forgiving, plus are more or less the only enemies where you can see just how close you are to beating them while still dying. Or, you know dying in just a couple of seconds, which can be frustrating, too. Don't think I found any/many enemies in Dark Souls 1/3 or Bloodborne as annoying or frustrating as many of the enemies in Sekiro, though, but clearly different strokes, etc. Maybe I'm just blocking them out. I'm sure I can find some posts of mine to the contrary.

Also the boss fights are designed to psyche you out with their epic scale and music, but almost all of them are a matter of learning the boss's moves and how to avoid them, and picking your moments.

Yeah, I remember reading a recommendation that sometimes when you hit a wall, just turn off the sound. Though sometimes you miss certain cues when you do that. Regardless of moves or scale or whatever, there will always be some bosses that some people can beat with their bare fists blindfolded the first attempt, but you'll fight 50 times and barely make headway. I tend to get bored after a while more than frustrated, which is another reason to turn down or off the sound.

I definitely turn off the music sometimes (you can do that and leave the sound on).

!

Yeah! Just go into settings and there should be separate volume sliders for music and sound fx.

I never had a PS3 so it was interesting to come to the Demon's Souls remake after playing all the other games. Some of the levels, one bonfire and all, seem monstrously punishing compared to later stuff, but the bosses don't really have any capacity to surprise when you've been through all the more developed, multi-stage/gimmicky ones from later games

I beat most of them in one try so far

Didn't get a network test code :(

Tons of info & videos out there today from people who have early access. I'm trying to avoid spoilers for the most part, except for stuff about the mechanics.

Standing poise (instead of Dark Souls 3-style hyperarmor) = in (not sure how I feel about this)
Powerstancing (ie you can equip two weapons of the same type and get a different dual-wielding moveset) = in
Mixing your own combo potions that can make you explode = sure why not
Solo hosts can't be invaded unless they use a few items = ok, fine
Invaders get a compass to see what direction the host is = sick
Invaders also get an item to quickly vanish from the host's world and reappear nearby = oh my god

It really does seem like a blend of all their games plus a bunch of new stuff, can't wait.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzFR5HsPcng

all sounds cool. I have no problem with spoilers, because not only will I forget by the time I get it, I can't play any of these games without walkthrough help anyway lol.

i have the same problem/gift with forgetting everything! really comes in handy on very rare occasions

Just finished that video and have some thoughts. One, I've never played Dark Souls II because I've ... well, I guess I just skipped it, but I've heard mixed things (and there are essentially two versions of it, for that matter). But it is interesting that some of its elements have made their way to other games, despite its reputation as a disappointment. For example, as I understand it your health can be halved in DS2, and a similar mechanic was brought into Sekiro. And according to this video, power stances from DS2 have made their way to this one, too. Second, I've never used magic in any of these games, because choosing magic is like choosing an entirely different, novel way to play the game, and if you're only going to play it once I'm not sure magic is the way to do it. But maybe it is in this game, because magic looks super cool. Third, I really hope this plays well on PS4 (and other last generation systems), but I have a bad feeling between it being open world and generally newer than the past several From games it might really benefit from the speed and power of newer systems. That's one advantage of (as this video points out) From never being on the tech vanguard, because it means the games generally don't *need* next gen tech to run. (I know Demon's Souls is PS5 exclusive, but those that have played it, do you think it could run on a PS4?)

Anyway, I can already tell there are going to be a lot of funny videos generated by this game.

Oh, also, looks like you don't take fall damage when you jump, which would have been a very perverse thing for From to do, so I'm glad they didn't do it! Or at least, maybe there are height restrictions/allowances? And I like how there is environmental damage that can be done by at least bosses, which I know was in "Sekiro," though I can't recall if it was introduced there.

Demon's Souls is quite a tech showcase, it wouldn't have been able to run at that framerate on ps4, and some of the lighting/particle effects look like they would have been a big stretch too

I like Dark Souls 2 to some degree, some dispiritingly shit world design like the infamous Earthen Peak Elevator Jaunt travesty aside. It's like a difficult 3rd album that isn't among the classics but fits a certain mood when you happen to want it. I found the DLC far too much of a grim slog though

Elden Ring looks unreasonably good, can't wait

This game looks fun, and by early accounts the open world design is supposed to be good, but I can't help but wonder whether the openness actually adds much to the Souls formula. The main draw of the world design in DS1 (admittedly the only one of these I've played) was for me, its labyrinthine density. Eldenringland just looks kinda vast and drab to me.

i was moderately interested in this game, but after watching some of those videos posted above i am now EAGERLY ANTICIPATING. my only problem is i don't have a system for it, and i was leaning toward getting a steam deck rather than a ps5.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9DWTt37khU

Fwiw, both videos note the difficulty of the first mandatory boss.

i showed the game a friend of mine who really likes dark souls, and he seemed to be a bit disappointed at first. i think he was thinking of it as a souls-like game, which, it is in some ways of course, very much so. but just being open world and adding jumping completely changes it. it reminds me of GTAIII or breath of the wild in terms of how those games were a departure from the games they built on

Souls-like.

And something else I was thinking about, given From's propensity for hidden walls/loot/enemies/NPCs/entire levels and/or alternate endgames, I wonder what that portends for an open world game? Gonna be a lot of OCD dudes slashing at every bush, rock or piece of foliage, looking for secret stuff, a la the first Zelda.

To be honest the open world part isn't particularly compelling to me. I do like the idea of all the new handcrafted zones that are the equivalent of large Dark souls areas, and a whole bunch of new build options and mechanics (and invasions, of course).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEypd23I0pQ

here's footage of the PS4 version - it seems like it runs without any serious issues or significant visual downgrades. i got into the network test on PS4 so i'll see how it is in a few hours from now.

i'm not at all concerned about the open world, all the footage of the network test has made it very clear that it's avoiding all the common open world pitfalls (repetitive content, big for the sake of being big, etc.) & is very dense with unique content. there are at least 10 bosses in the network test area alone (which is estimated to be around 1/12 of the full game's map). it's a big change, sure, but i don't think anywhere near as radical a shift as say GTA3 or BOTW were - the core gameplay is still very much the same despite the change in environmental scale.

For example, as I understand it your health can be halved in DS2, and a similar mechanic was brought into Sekiro.

DS2's max health decreasing on death (in increments down to a min of 50%) was more of an iteration on Demon's Souls' mechanic where you lost half your max health when you were in 'soul form' opposed to 'human form', which happened upon dying while human. in both cases, the game was generally balanced around the halved max health, with more than that being a bonus, but it was still kinda presented as a punishment. i think both were intended to give the player another incentive to go into human form, which enabled being invaded as well as summoning other players as well as removing the max health penalty. DS3 improved upon this by having embers, which worked the same way in enabling multiplayer, provide a bonus to your max health instead.

there wasn't any sort of max health restriction upon death mechanic in Sekiro though, and there doesn't seem to be in Elden Ring either.

DS2 is one of the weaker souls games but it's still worth playing. the issues with it are largely that the encounter design isn't quite as tight, the world design is clumsier & it rarely reaches the same sorts of high-point boss fights as the best of the series. i'd still put it above Demon's Souls at least.

i may be a minority opinion here, but i don't worry at all about whether something can run well enough on a certain machine. i can count the number of times i have been bothered by the framerate/slowdown of a game on one hand. i think part of it is that i came to gaming age playing games like LIFE FORCE. the slowdown was part of the game. the bug became the feature. aiming for this perfect-smooth framerate ideal is understandable but also kind of disappointing. it's just different, i guess

blighttown was pretty miserable at times in the original console versions of ds1 due to all the slowdown. it's certainly something to be concerned about & can make experiences much worse. with cross-gen games like this, it does happen sometimes that the last-gen versions are significantly inferior due to cutting corners trying to get the game to run on hardware they weren't focusing on, but that thankfully doesn't seem to be the case here at all.

IDK I think having a smooth frame rate is critical for a game like this where you have to time movements precisely. And while 60 is nice, 30 is perfectly good as long as it stays consistent. I played DS1 on Switch and it runs great!

As a relatively recent returner to games, I've learned my lesson the hard way. When I got "Doom" for the Switch it kinda ran like shit, even after a few updates. The slowdowns definitely affected game play in such a fast paced game, and even things like jumping were impacted. Like, you would run at a couple of spots (even with no enemies) and suddenly things would slow down, right before you pressed jump, and you would fall to your death. But tbf, "Doom" is almost uniquely busy and fast paced, and yeah, I can't think of another game off the top of my head with issues like that.

That said, I sort of suspect at least some of my problems with "Sekiro" were related to the frame rate. Usually I don't notice/care, but that game was all about timing, and while it could have been me (I mean, for sure it was me), it's also possible it was just that much trickier for me at 30fps than it would have been at 60.

there wasn't any sort of max health restriction upon death mechanic in Sekiro though

Oh, I just meant the mechanic that makes you lose half your souls or whatever. And gives everybody dragonrot. There's a cost of dying, which I found irritating since these games are built around dying over and over again. DS1 and DS3 don't have that cost, and Bloodborne gives you a shot to get some echoes back, too.

I never minded slow downs either, it's like slo mo at a dramatic moment.

Glad the PS4 version runs well, I never cared about graphics but had to admit that 60fps is really nice after playing the DS1 remaster and now DS3 on PS5. But I played all of the other games at 30fps for hundreds of hours and had a great time, so it's definitely not essential.

very positive impressions

https://kotaku.com/elden-ring-may-just-reinvent-the-open-world-genre-1848093261

I look forward to suddenly earning souls from some NPC that dies fighting enemies on the other side of the map.

I keep wondering if I should give the other From games a shot? I just got incredibly fed up with BB but maybe having a shield would make me feel better? (Probably not.)

On the one hand having experience in one of these games helps with all of them since they have some basics in common, but on the other hand, ER looks to be the most user-friendly of them all (from little things like the menus and upgrade systems, to how the combat system seems to align with what you see onscreen in a more intuitive way, rather than having to look up online how combos/poise/parries/etc work...that's mostly for pvp though).

Generally speaking though Dark Souls 1 and 2 are slower paced, while the combat in Bloodborne is faster (and DS3 is somewhere in-between).

Shields in these games are mostly there to taunt you and weigh you down.

i have played defense heavy builds to some advantage in these games on occasion; it's a preferred method. it makes me shit at pvp tho!

I haven't used a shield in DS3 since my first playthrough, but I might use one for ER! For one thing, there's a shield weapon art (or "ash of war" I guess) that acts as both a normal parry AND can parry spells (and turn them into little magic swords you send back):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BBLmt_DI50

In the pvp world, there's been a lot of talk of the big changes from Dark Souls 3, particularly:

-No guaranteed combos, ie hitting someone once doesn't necessarily mean you can hit them again if they decide to roll out of it. In DS3, most small and medium weapons had a guaranteed 2-hit combo on normal attacks, with a shorter stun window after that so the other person could get away.

-Backstabs are de-emphasized, and no one's sure if they're "working as intended" or not. Basically the backstab doesn't work if the other person isn't perfectly aligned with your character, or possibly if they're in any kind of animation. In DS3, it would work as long as the other person wasn't moving away from you, meaning that you could sneakily backstab someone if they were in a long animation (like after swinging a large weapon, or casting a healing spell). I enjoyed that system, but it makes sense that From is trying to smooth over elements that looked or felt weird to anyone not super versed in the mechanics.

I'm all for the changes if they make the pvp more intuitive and appealing to people. Although I hope there are some good unparryable attacks to use when someone keeps throwing out parries, since that still seems strong, and in DS3 you could run around behind them, use a kick, etc.

This looks really good. I mean, it's very Soulsy and sometimes these things can feel like Scategories. Just replace bonfire with lamp; souls with blood echoes etc...
But I'm down with this. It looks a lot more open and less fiendishly claustro than Bloodborne. I also like how you can actually jump. There also seem to be a few more NPCs about the place, so it's got more of a Witchery vibe to it. Yeah looking forward to it

This is gonna own me isn't it.

There has been much Oroboro watching in our household this past month

just bought the lil baby xbox series s in a chip-shortage panic, just in case they disappear again before this comes out

I also got the lil' baby Xbox, the first Microsoft console I've ever had! Personally, I think it's great as an affordable, stand-alone Game Pass machine

are they readily available?

though frankly i don't think i can hang with that joystick

got one at a gamestop on myrtle ave, looked like there were tons

https://kotaku.com/the-elden-ring-community-is-now-arguing-over-horse-crot-1848315650

there's something about the aesthetics of the DLC that put me off, it all seemed a bit Dark Souls II in a muddy brown sort of way, not the gorgeous autumnal hues of the outskirts of Leyndell but just a bit... dun? I've done most of the exploring now but I'm not sure I can be bothered slogging away to take down the bosses, I've probably missed a load of Scadu fragments which would make it a bit easier though

anyway I should stop complaining about what is really an embarassment of riches, apologies team Fromsoft

otoh it was a hell of a ride - you start out with that large open space to go into, nothing really there, and then you start exploring these runnels and holes in the ground, and cliff edge paths that look like they might peter out at any moment and find entire areas, with the insane verticality of it all unfolding as you go and with everything in and around the Shadow Keep and Specimen Library really the best bit and central knot of the game.

Yes, the verticality was really something. And like you say, Shadow Keep and Specimen Library was top-tier legacy dungeoning.
But while that bit felt like a return to areas like Stormveil, a lot of the rest of the game felt a bit uneven.

I've moaned and moaned about the many wide-and-open plateaus and fields that are very pretty but just contain a couple of grunts, or a dragon or ulcerated tree spirit we've thought a million times and can just run past if we don't want to. And occasionally going back to these areas I'll spot a small item I haven't collected, or even a spirit spring leading to... another item I didn't pick up.

But I don't remember the base game being so full of dead ends, which I find immensely dissatisfying. One of the pleasures of Elden Ring is that feeling of "Oh wait, there's more!", and finding yourself falling down this rabbithole for hours. This happened a few times in the DLC - notably the cave that leads to the Bale dragon area, the route down from those ruins that leads to Bonny Village, and especially that little hidden passage in Shadow Keep that eventually leads to the Scadutree Sunflower (I think?).

Still, all these areas eventually lead to what feels like a roadblock, where the only thing to do is to beat the boss and then turn around. It's very Dark Souls II in the way Shadow Keep acts like a hub with all these long spokes coming out: You fight your way down these long, quite linear paths, beat the boss and that's it.
With Stormveil, at least, you came out into Liurnia, and there was a feeling of progress.
Volcano Manor does end after Rykard, but the way the whole Mt Gelmir/Manor area wraps around itself, it feels like you're at the very centre of a self-contained spiral - it feels like a minigame in itself. And there's still lots of stuff to do, like speak to Lady Tanith and even fight her bodyguard, then go searching for Rya and Patches etc.
Beating Radahn in the base game causes a big change to the state of the world, plus there's a hidden catacomb to explore in his arena.
Even fighting your way all the way through down to Deeproot Depths and completing Fia's quest teleports you to Leyndell, which if you haven't already gone in through the front entrance feels revelatory.

With the DLC, it's more a case of just following the long path until it ends, beating the boss, getting the Remembrance, then teleporting back to one of the key graces and working out what to do next. There's a common feeling of "Well that didn't work, what now?" And because the NPCs only really appear to be involved when you're on the critical path of the main quest, there's often very little lore to be sipped-up when you fight, say, the Scadutree Flower or find yourself in the Abyssal Woods - like, "Why am I here? No one told me to come here?" - we're exploring for exploring's sake a lot of the time.

And maybe it's because the critical path is really so short and straightforward that this is the problem. In the base game it feels like a proper mission to reach the Altus Plateau, whether you use the Lift of Decus or take the "coward's path". But in the DLC, you could quite easily just ride straight up to Shadow Keep as it's JUST THERE (my friend did this by accident and wiped a bunch of NPC quests).

So despite all these alternative pathways and multilayered areas, ultimately you only need to waltz up to Shadow Keep, find Messmer, then continue through Ruah (which is a great area but too big), then you're at Enir Ilim. Everything else is just distractions and dead-ends really.

I didn't get that sense that everything I was doing was important somehow. Like, Gaius. What's that about? I find my way to the path that looks super-significant - this gigantic tower that frames the whole Scadutree - fight a really tough boss, and then all I find is a bowl with some fragments in it? I guess I'm grateful for the power-up, but is that it?

*fought

I was never so conscious before in these games that the real mission is to collect items - that the point of going down a particular path is because there might be an item. In the DLC especially though, it's rarely a lore or mission-important item. Too often it's a mushroom or a smithing stone

Anyway, I'm being negative. I did enjoy the DLC, but we are talking about the best game franchise in the world ever, so I should be allowed to nitpick now I've completed it

I think I'm on the same page. I liked a lot about the DLC, but it did seem incomplete, or not totally thought out, for a lot of the reasons you noted and more (that got lost in a post that didn't make it to publication). For example, the day to night cycle in the DLC is totally pointless. There is literally nothing unique to the night cycle besides a couple of larval tears, so why bother? Why not throw in a couple of night enemies or challenges (beyond simply not being able to see anything, lol). Or, why even bother with the optional Furnace Golems, with their super high time-consuming health and modest rewards? Why not reward beating them all with, say, pieces of a new weapon that you need to gather to fight an optional boss or something?

I admit that I was OP enough that not much in the DLC was particularly difficult. In fact, my mimic came close to beating a couple of bosses for me! But along those lines: why choose any spirit ash *but* mimic, unless you just want to make the game harder for its own sake? (Wouldn't it have been fun if, when you least expected it, the game made you fight your mimic again? Like, you summon it - or any other ash - to fight a boss, but the boss turns it against you?)

Anyway, I thought the DLC was a lot of fun, but felt like a missed opportunity, and maybe, despite looking and playing great, was among the weakest or least memorable of the From DLCs? I'm bad at remembering a lot of details in these games in general, but iirc the DS1 DLC was dope, the DS2 DLC was ... can't remember much. But DS3 DLC was great and Bloodborne DLC was rad, each of them even better than the already strong base games.

Night cycle - yes! They could have done more with it. I think I only saw one or two of those special gravesites that only show up at night. I also thought a lot of the levels were wayyyy too dark at night time. I was having to go aorund with my lantern lit constantly, and relighting it started to be a bit of a pain.

Agree about the Furnace Golems. Whether one finds them easy or not, having to fight the equivalent of a Fire Giant five times, the rewards just weren't interesting enough for me to devote the time or to farm for the Furnace Masks (which is hard enough to do unless you know where to look)

Elden Ring's base game was very complete, more "complete" than any preceding From game.

Personally I am most interested in seeing how Elden Ring's universe might transfer over into a purely online structure. I feel that it's a dev cycle away from being an amazing MMPORG. But I dunno. I haven't actually ever played an MMPORG.

I'm not far from finally platinuming this game. Not entirely sure how much I'll play it afterwards, I'm on a PS5 and paying for online access so that entire side of the game is missing from my experience and I'm not likely to jump into it. Might finally move on from it this fall, and thinking that kinda makes me feel a bit sad

Oh I'm definitely sad. I've already platinumed the base game and now the DLC is over, there's definitely an ER-shaped hole in my life. I guess I'll carry on playing through the other FromSoft games - I abandoned Bloodborne and DS2 because of Elden Ring and the DLC respectively, so I should just pick those up... Or just cut the crap and buy AstroBot instead

Hi Josh!

I'm very much a "glass is half full" From fan, given how much I like their games better than anyone else's I'm pretty tolerant of a few areas that are less finely crafted, and it would be pretty weird if a From game had a satisfying, detailed, and fully intelligible ending.

I'm mostly sad that I'm still not enjoying ER pvp very much, and activity in DS3 is sporadic (but higher than you might expect).

I totally agree about the night cycle btw, I always forget that it exists. And it would seem extremely From to create more areas or bosses that are only accessible at night (I certainly missed a lot of the night stuff in the base game, except for the horsemen on bridges).

I admit that I was OP enough that not much in the DLC was particularly difficult. In fact, my mimic came close to beating a couple of bosses for me!

I really don't mean to keep saying the same thing, but if you want difficulty don't use the mimic! It's great that there are so many ways to approach bosses for all kinds of players, but summoning mimic/npcs vs solo is a very different experience.

Hi!

NPCs summoned outside of arenas add to the boss's health pool, right? That's one way to get help but not too much help, though typically it's more hindrance than help.

Something that seemed unique to this DLC were all the mobs of worthless grunt enemies, like those Shadow people, or those fly people. It seems ideal to have the mimic just to clear that bullshit out, or some giant AOE weapon to literally level the playing field.

NPCs summoned outside of arenas add to the boss's health pool, right? That's one way to get help but not too much help, though typically it's more hindrance than help.

They do, but I found that it more than evened out. The npcs in the dlc are incredibly tanky and do decent damage, and if you add the mimic (especially if they double a status effect that you're using), well.

In my first solo playthrough I would fight each boss easily 20 - 50 times, until I learned their entire moveset and figured out an approach. In my second playthrough with npcs and sometimes mimic, they were totally trivialized, I would win after 1 - 3 attempts and didn't really have to know what the boss was doing. You can argue that this was aided by my first attempt, but I had most definitely forgotten most of the timings by then, lol.

The way I look at it is that the games throw so much bullshit at you that there's really no reason not to use every tool they offer you. Like the sleeping dudes on the cliff from the base game? What purpose do they serve other than farming? And given how many of the bosses can come close to one shotting you, and have infinite stamina and spamming and stuff, why not whoop their ass by any means necessary? There are so many roadblocks the game allows you to set up for yourself, from playing in a diaper with a broken sword on up, people can tweak things to make it as difficult as they want. But the games are inherently difficult, so I don't see what the point necessarily is. It'd be like raising the rim of a basketball net, or running in flip flops. Sure, you could do it, but why?

I did find magic (or at least incantations) more useful in this DLC than in any other From game or DLC. Primarily as an alternative to traditional ranged weapons, if memory serves, but also for buffs and a few other tricks. For example, those furnace golems? Standing under them and using one of those dragon lightning spells can stagger them pretty quickly while they are busy with your ash/mimic.

Sure, you could do it, but why?

To appreciate the design (every attack has a tell and a way to avoid it without getting hit) and get the most out of each encounter rather than feel like I'm rushing through or getting it over with. But really I just like that particular kind of challenge, of course, since there are other parts of the game that I do rush through and other people clearly luxuriate it (ie getting platinum, reading all the item descriptions and piecing together the lore, etc).

yeah, fair enough. for example, I don't care about the lore at all and rarely know what's going on, lol. Ds1,2,3 and ER all kinda feel like the same game to me, tbh, with tweaks. Bloodborne and Sekiro are pretty fresh and novel, or I assume they would be if I played them again.

Funny, I played a much more melee style in the DLC compared to the base game where I was glintstoning pretty much everything in the first half, and then faith casting in the second. One of the best things in the DLC was the Qulaity Milady with that enhanced charge Wing Stance art - great fun to use.

The beauty of these games is that they're highly appreciable for many many different reasons, and those reasons will vary from person to person.

For example, I have barely touched PVP and while I appreciate the spectacle of a good boss fight, I see them as rather frustrating and tedious roadblocks to my adventuring that I would rather cheese than go to the trouble of learning how to beat. Other players see the bosses as a highlight, and get frustrated on subsequent playthroughs that they have to go and do all the tedious exploring again before they can find a certain boss.

I think one of the reasons I went heavy on incantations, despite still essentially remaining a strength build (though tbf, for most of this DLC most of my stats were pretty high across the board, save intelligence), is because there were so many cool or useful magic things to do, but not much in the way of interesting weapons. In fact, I think I stuck with bloodhound's fang for most of the DLC, for its speed, bleed and sheer damage. But I also used a couple of boss weapons for specific purposes, the Sacred Blade for its massive AOE and the Blasphemous Blade for both health regen and modest range damage. Ranged weapons/spells were key in the DLC, given how many groups of enemies you encounter, or ambushes hiding up high or whatever.

Did anyone else find that a couple of the regular enemies, like curseblades and horned warriors, were often as or even more challenging than some of the bosses? The curseblades in particular, from the one you immediately meet on, are so aggressive and relentless that eventually I usually just found some way around them. Same with those laser shooting caterpillar things. Oh, and those dopey forge trolls, too, why would anyone bother with them? They are a huge PIA to take down, but generally move slow enough to avoid, and I don't think they drop anything good. At least those grabby things in stealth spookyland sometimes dropped skibbidi fragments, right? (I didn't bother killing them).

And what about bear-land, that region full of aggressive bears? Seemed more like a gag/gimmick than anything else. The forges, too, for that matter, I can't remember what, if anything, made any of them particularly memorable or worthwhile, especially with no bosses. Just another head-scratcher of the DLC (which again I liked and thought looked and played great!), like those big empty towers that look like they'd be important but really aren't. Maybe whatever seemingly missed opportunities do stem from fgti's apt observation that the base game already feels pretty complete, satisfying, which may explain why the DLC also felt, in terms of its relatively linear "narrative" (as such), almost more of a stand-alone adventure or sequel.

I don't remember bear-land in particular but I had a good laugh in angry lightning sheep land.

In playthrough 1 the finger gardens seemed very nothing-y, but I used my horse to stick to outskirts and had my giant hammer to one-shot the lampreys. In playthrough 2 the enemies at least got to do their thing when I was on foot (mostly because I kept getting invaded via Taunter's Tongue), and I got to experience being continually paralyzed by one while another teleported in to attack, lol.

I totally forgot about electric sheep land!

And oh yeah, finger gardens were big and empty, too, save for that one esoteric NPC quest. It's like, here's this huge dramatic imposing area! Now zip on through, because there's nothing there.

Yeah it really was weird how densely and sparsely respective areas were laid out in the DLC.

bearland, electric sheep land and dog land.

Personally I am most interested in seeing how Elden Ring's universe might transfer over into a purely online structure. I feel that it's a dev cycle away from being an amazing MMPORG. But I dunno. I haven't actually ever played an MMPORG.

Have you all seen the seamless co-op mod for pc? I don't play on pc, but it's pretty crazy...up to six players can play together, plus invaders, and everyone can use the horse, with no forced disconnects after beating bosses. Also everyone gets credit in their own world for making progress (bosses etc). Pretty wild.

Wow really!! I wish I could play that, sounds amazing

I love reading about and watching clips of mods. I've played all of these games exclusively offline, so I already feel like I'm missing out, but some of the mods look super fun, I imagine especially for those familiar with every nook and cranny. Like, you enter a room expecting one enemy or treasure, but you get something totally different.

A FromSoft MMORPG is an interesting idea but I doubt I'd want to see an Elden Ring one