Elden Ring: YOU DIED on a horse

Maybe I should try a slow run to really experiment with some different options, but even though I'd like a few more options for invader characters, the prospect of replaying the early game again feels unappealing. I hit 999 furled fingers on my main level 40 invader, which shows how much I'd rather just use a build that works rather than make a new one, lol.

Wow that's a lot of invasions haha

I was more of a duelist and co-op'er than an invader, me. It has been intriguing to keep tabs on the meta discussions, people realising that every weapon has its use. Apparently the supremely useless flails have secret sweet spots? and there's a thing where an L1 block (either with a shield or a 2H weapon) gives a 2-frame possibility of a parry? Fascinating

I've stopped playing for now, though, I'll come back when there's proper DLC. There are few games out there that have captured me as utterly as this game has done

I finally unlocked my last colosseum on my main game, but couldn't seem to matchmake. I'm surprised - I know I'm on, like, level 250 or something silly but no one at all to fight?

I mean... I have so many other games waiting to be played and even though I've platinumed ER I still find myself coming back to this world.

Man, I tried to do everything I could in Limgrave before tackling Stormveil and the latter is still tough as anything. You only need to slip up once and you are dead dead dead. Still my favourite level of any Souls game in terms of layout and design

As already mentioned, I've been re-playing ER from scratch, starting as a Wretch and I have to say it's almost as enjoyable as the first time I played it. I have a much better handle on the overall lore of the story than the first time I played it, and as such I'm much more involved in what's happening, where to go next, how to progress certain quests etc.

Limgrave is an amazing landscape. I also think Stormveil is one of the most well-designed dungeons in any game I've ever played - compact but sprawling; full of little twists and turns (I'm still discovering new parts of it even on my fourth play through); challenging but never unfair; meticulous enemy placement. It's just perfect.

That said, I've just hit Liurnia and this is where I feel the game sags ever-so-slightly for the first time. Despite it being an open world, Limgrave does a better job of funnelling me through towards the various quests and sidequests. There seemed to be a natural route through the ticklist of things to do so that by the time I was ready to face Margit and tackle Stormveil itself, I had also met Blaidd, fought Darriwal, completed Irina and Edgar's quest and beat Agheel. It felt tidy.

Now I'm in Liurnia, the route feels a lot more diffuse. I feel like I'm just riding in various directions until I hit a landmark, hoovering-up Grace Points, bumping into NPCs, but it's kind of aimless so far. The only thing I know I need to do is to find the key to get into Raya Lucaria - and that's fine. But last night I accidentally stumbled on the Albinauric Village and carried-out the Nepheli quest there a little earlier than prompted. It didn't feel like a natural continuation of the story - just "Ah I know what to do here because I've done it before".

I'm also not sure how excited I am about going through Raya Lucaria again. Stormveil is always an exciting prospect, but Raya, despite having some fun rooftop action, isn't quite the 5D maze of the former. I can see myself dolefully rushing through it and having to make that awful run-back to Renalla over and over again.

I also find Liurnia to be laid-out in quite an annoying way. Especially the Northern part - trying to find the Mausoleum Graveyard or the Madness Village always feels like a rigmarole where I can never quite find the entrance, meanwhile being attacked by Runebears and being shot constantly by archers. There are also a ton of quite annoying grottos, one of which is non-optional if you want to progress a certain quest.

Does anyone agree, or can anyone make a counter-argument for Liurnia?

If we had to rank all the areas of the game, Liurnia would come last, for me— even with the community’s general disappointment toward the snowbound later levels

(Although Raya Lucaria will impress you more, I think, this time around. It suffers from “coming after Stormveil” but it is incredibly good)

Something I find appealing about From games is this general concept of “concentration of features” I guess. I love Undead Burg because of its economy and density, much more than Anor Londo (which is three challenges spread out over an entire city)

But yeah, Liurnia is too vast and featureless. There are amazing parts— the area around Bellum Church is very cool. But it felt in general too spread out and flat for me. At least Caelid felt always-dangerous, and Snowfield felt terrifying with the blizzard

I'm also trying to remember how to advance Ranni's plot and I know it's got something to do with Rogier asking me to go and investigate a few things to do with her cursemark, but I can't seem to get him to talk about it. I've been down to the mad Godwyn face under Stormveil and touched his bloodstain, but he's not chatting. Don't tell me I have to beat the Ulcerated Tree Spirit because fuck that

I always forget a step in that quest, myself. You can’t get locked out of it afaik unless you do something truly stupid

Yeah, I just want to do everything in the "proper" way this time rather than waht I've previosuly done which is running around triggering evetns randomly and having a confusing storyline where characters talk offhand about people and places I feel I should know about etc...

This was the first From game I played on release, and it was funny, before or as the patches rolled out, to see people debate whether certain quests were complete, incomplete or just broken.

tbf, dog latin, Rogier's involvement in Ranni's plot is circumstantial and strange... if you look at his wiki entry, it's possible to get a tonne of Ranni lore out of him, but you have to talk to him (and D) at the right times and in the right order and it seems pretty far-fetched that any of that information would be divulged naturally

Something I discovered recently btw, was this interesting thing: at a certain point, when you return to the evergaol in which Darriwhil was imprisoned (and Blaidd offered to help), you find that Blaidd himself has been imprisoned there.

Liurnia is still mysterious to me, there are multiple parts that feel very difficult to reach just because of the topography, like you have to travel a long distance out of the way to find a point where you can start ascending the cliffs. I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing, design-wise. Sometimes when invading I'll still find a nook that feels unfamiliar (as I've said, the current invading system is actually great for exploration, since it's the only way to get dropped into a random spawn point in the world).

I still like Raya Lucaria and Caria Manor, but they're no Stormveil obviously.

Yeah, they definitely frontloaded the best dungeon in the game, the others all suffer in comparison to Stormveil. I'm hoping the eventual DLC provides a similarly dense slice of dungeon-cake

General consensus in "the community" seems to place Leyndell firmly as the pinnacle of the Elden Ring design experience. I myself disagree, Stormveil is the best. It's pretty wild to think that this "legacy dungeon", size and content-wise, is larger and richer than the classic and enormous-feeling Undead Burg loop

I don't think the game is front-loaded at all, though; Haligtree/Elphael is so amazing

You're definitely right about the Haligtree, that might be my second-favorite dungeon. I think Stormveil just sits at the forefront of my mind due to being early in the game

I definitely gotta stop using the word definitely so much

just realized elden ring is missing a fishing minigame

I'm not a fan of Stormveil! Maybe I find it ugly? I dunno. I'm running a second game with a STR/FAI mix to get my melee skills improved, and I'm also finding it all easier, but I'm also getting ahead of myself as a result.

Like I spoke to Blaidd at Mistwood, did Darriwill in for/with him in the gaol then he's like "welp I'm out now", so I guess I assumed I'd find him in Siofria and went to look and hes not there.
Turns out i have to start Ranni's quest first. At least this time, I'll do that proprly and not start the Radhan fest BEFORE I find her haha (thats what I did last time and it locked Ranni's quest up til I was done)

Something I discovered recently btw, was this interesting thing: at a certain point, when you return to the evergaol in which Darriwhil was imprisoned (and Blaidd offered to help), you find that Blaidd himself has been imprisoned there.
― Blessed Bloated Burdened (flamboyant goon tie included), Monday, February 20, 2023 6:41 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Yes, this is at the end of Ranni's quest. It's implied that Iji imprisons Blaidd for his own good - Blaidd being a vassal of the Two Fingers, similar as Maliketh is to Queen Marika. Because Ranni cuts ties and betrays the Two Fingers, Blaidd Iji knows that he will turn hostile (which he does if you free him - go back to Ranni's Rise and you will have to fight him!) Iji too, dies, although there's some debate as to whether he is killed or he commits suicide.

Oops, sorry - that was all supposed to be hidden text! Arrrgh, do not read if you hate very deep convoluted lore spoilers you wouldn't know about unless you actually knew to look for them!

tbf, dog latin, Rogier's involvement in Ranni's plot is circumstantial and strange... if you look at his wiki entry, it's possible to get a tonne of Ranni lore out of him, but you have to talk to him (and D) at the right times and in the right order and it seems pretty far-fetched that any of that information would be divulged naturally

I'm a bit of a lore fan when it comes to this game, so with this playthrough I'm trying to see whether I can advance the story as naturally as possible.
So for example, in my first play-through I just stumbled on Caria Manor / Ranni's Rise, whereas the canonical "correct" way to do it is to be prompted by Rogier. That said, it's extremely convoluted and involves a lot of tenuous steps.

While you can still progress the quest okay, in order to get the full dialogue and backstory, you need to slay the Ulcerated Tree Spirit in Stormveil (which I discovered is cheesable), look at Rogier's bloodstain (it looks like any other bloodstain and I don't go around clickign on them usually, so..), then speak to him, THEN speak to Fia (of all people - god, that hug animation takes forever). Fia gives you a map, you follow the map (to a quite difficult to find location in Lirunia), get an item which you return to Rogier, then HE tells you to go and seek Ranni.

No wonder people were getting confused about quests being broken - there's barely any way you would know to do a lot of this without looking up a guide. Nevertheless, it does make the whole quest story "make sense" rather than simply being matter of random stuff just happening.

Liurnia is still mysterious to me, there are multiple parts that feel very difficult to reach just because of the topography, like you have to travel a long distance out of the way to find a point where you can start ascending the cliffs. I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing, design-wise. Sometimes when invading I'll still find a nook that feels unfamiliar (as I've said, the current invading system is actually great for exploration, since it's the only way to get dropped into a random spawn point in the world).

Yeah, I've ridden all over Liurnia this last year and I'm still confused about the topography - it's so easy to get lost and confused to the point where I'll be going down what feels like a familiar dale and end up in a totally different place to where I thought I was. Last night I found a small random island populated by a large smack of spirit jellyfish, and nothing to explain why*

*there is some deep lore about jellyfish (and the jellyfish spirit ashes Roderika gives you) that's worth looking into, but they tend to congregate around graveyards and cemeteries, so I don't know why they were on this island

Iji too, dies, although there's some debate as to whether he is killed or he commits suicide.

I thought he'd been killed by the Black Knives?

Yeah it's likely - I think there's evidence of that. Would that imply Ranni killed him? Pretty dark

I never realised Iji died. Really? When? I guess I just never visited him after killing Blaidd

When it's time to hug Fia I put the controller down and give myself a hug. Good use of time

Its so rude that she leaves you with that "blessing" that nerfs yr health!

Fgti, I think a lot of it actually happens AFTER you complete the game and choose Ranni's ending but continue on your adventure

Man, playing this game with a strict "no farming" rule is TOUGH. I haven't leveled up in ages and just trying to beat the first few mages in Raya Lucaria takes a huge amount of skill and patience

Nah the Iji/Blaid story deffo happens well before game's end. Its around the end of the Ranni questline iirc.

Okay, so BotW is probably my GOAT favorite video game experience, thought RDR2 a masterpiece, and TLOU 1&2 the best stories told in video games. Recently played Horizon Forbidden West (was bundled with the PS5 so why not), felt it was pretty, immersive, but meh and samey. Feeling a bit burnt out from open world games. Never played a From Software game.

Give me a reason to play this game immediately and why I might fall for it given the above, or maybe give me a reason to run for the hills and just play God of War and Metroid Prime and not look back

far from the most important reason, but it'll come up again and again the rest of our lives and you might as well have some sort of experience with it. also, starting the game and dying to the first boss in a from software game (or somehow winning, if you're way too good) is on the same fundamental level as the first level of SMB1 or the tetris music

you've barely lived until you have You Died at least once

you've barely lived until you have You Died at least once

still trying to process this sentence...

I mean I loved Hades, and dying was a bit important in that game so I'm ready for a challenge

I played it for a few weeks and it’s really impressive. I had to take a break because it’s so bleak and was not in a good spot in my life. Things aren’t super better now, but I’ve been meaning to pick it back up.

Okay, so BotW is probably my GOAT favorite video game experience, thought RDR2 a masterpiece, and TLOU 1&2 the best stories told in video games. Recently played Horizon Forbidden West (was bundled with the PS5 so why not), felt it was pretty, immersive, but meh and samey. Feeling a bit burnt out from open world games. Never played a From Software game.

Give me a reason to play this game immediately and why I might fall for it given the above, or maybe give me a reason to run for the hills and just play God of War and Metroid Prime and not look back

― octobeard, Wednesday, February 22, 2023 6:39 AM (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

I played the original GOW and enjoyed it immensely. Then I started dipping my toes in the FromSoft games (Bloodborne) and found them overwhelming - not just the difficulty but just the overall way it's played, the UI, the way NPCs interact, how leveling works etc. It was a bit like learning a new language.
Elden Ring came out, I persevered, I got immersed, it was all I could think about some days. When GOW Ragnarok came out I bought it on day of purchase and was underwhelmed. It was the same type of game as before with a bigger story, but it just felt so rote, straightforward, spoon-feedy, on-rails - a playable movie with good performances but little sense of personal agency beyond walk along, smack R1 for a while, walk a bit more until the story picks up etc...

To make a musical analogy for you especially, Elden Ring is akin to the Autechre of video games. It requires a significant level of "meeting it halfway" in order to get the most out of it. You can, if you want, play it as an open-world arcade slasher and many people do; but the possibilities seem almost endless. It's one of the few games where it feels like you have true agency over your own story, over the way your character and build. You can play it pretty much any way you want and it very rarely takes over the controls for you. I'm on my fourth playthrough and am still discovering new things about it. And I still haven't really dipped my toe into the world of PVP yet, which is a whole other thing.

I also think the difficulty and grimness are over-stated. Yeah, these games are generally fairly tough, especially when one isn't used to how they work. It is a bit like learning a new language sometimes. A big part of the experience is to do with slowly learning about this internal language works - and it will go out of its way NOT to explain this. What's quite amusing in more recent playthroughs on updated versions is how jarring it can feel now that they've added some helpful sign-posting towards the beginning of the game, whereas on first release it was pretty much: "Here you go, now get started!"

Octobeard my inclination is not to encourage you to play this game but rather to urge you to stay away from it until you’re ready to lose six-to-eight weeks of your life to it, tbh

^^^^

Or a whole year + in my case

Same!

Octobeard I love all those games you listed

I can’t really claim that Elden Ring is “the best game I ever played” because I don’t think Elden Ring aspired to be “the best”. It felt to me while playing it that the metric of “best” no longer applied, that Elden Ring kinda broke the measuring tape

It definitely is “the closest video games have ever gotten to hard drug levels of addictiveness”

As someone who also loved BoTW very very much (and Skyrim) and is a fan of open world in general, I can say that I really love this game, even with my reservations about how hard Souls games supposedly were - I'd avoided them all for years because I hate punitive gameplay.

So, its a FUCKING PUNITIVE game, make no mistake. If you have little spare time, or little patience, or are quick to anger, it may not be the game for you. But the world is so glorious, and detailled, and inscrutable if you dont look up walkthroughs!

But yes one thing it is is a timesink. You cant really pick it up for 30 mins and whip off a battle or puzzle.

Ugh the Red Wolf of Radagon always feels like an exceptional difficulty spike, not to mention a horrible fight with a really random moveset

I played HFW on bloody easy/story mode, so basically breezed through it, but I think it was largely because I really disliked the enemies and battling in the game initially. The combat mechanics didn't mesh well with me, while with Breath of the Wild and Red Dead, it was absolutely a challenge to me initially, but the mechanics of the game were so ergonomic and the world so accessible that I pushed through and was rewarded immensely for exploring and grew to adore battles and fighting.

I'm hoping Elden Ring is like this - a game that massively rewards exploration, is immersive, and has a lore and depth to the story and world that stokes the imagination while making it fun to grow your character and take on new baddies. HFW had an interesting back story and plot, but looking back on it, I felt I was almost forcing it. The world was beautiful enough that I put in 70 hours to finish it, I guess, but it's soured me a bit on the genre now, sadly.

I'm literally considering Elden Ring vs Cyberpunk 2077 for the next open world game buy (well, before Tears of the Kingdom at least). I know Cyberpunk has vastly improved since its release, and is a much improved experience according to many. I bring up RDR2 and BOTW as I consider these absolute pinnacle open world game experiences, and if either ER or Cyberpunk approach that level I'm in, especially if they don't fall into similar traps that HFW's game design and narrative fell into. I will say, exploring the wreckage of post-post apocalyptic SF was really fun, just mad it took 50 hours of game play to get there.

One thing that is extremely different about ER (and From games in general) is that the mode of storytelling is very, very unique. More of a jigsaw puzzle than a novella

Yeah theres lore but its not presented nicely to you in journal entries or books you can read off shelves.Thats my only niggle with it really - you have to really scrabble around to find all the clues and bits of lore and really pay attention to what each NPC tells you because a) it'll be important, which I didnt realise on my first try and b) they wont re-tell you or put it into a journal in your menu. If youre so inclined, you may want to go oldschool and jot things down as you go.

I think that's part of the fun though. Yeah, it is a bit frustrating to start with but I grew to really enjoy the sleuthing. Another big thing is making sure to pay attention to the environment and to read things like item descriptions which play a huge part in filling out the back story.

One of the more annoying things is how it often requires you to go and talk to NPCs without always prompting you though. Yeah, you quickly get used to exhausting characters' dialogues, but there are a fair few instances where you will need to chat to someone, go away and rest at a site of grace, then talk to them again. It's that, or you need to go and talk to an NPC, say Fia, in order to properly progress a quest, except nothing really tells you to do this.
Multiple times in my first playthrough I found myself scratching my head wondering how the game might expect me to just guess where to go next. Use of guides is almost always essential in these cases