BLOODBORNE given Feb '15 Euro/NA release date, deemed worthy of own thread by ilxor

Feb 6

http://www.polygon.com/2014/9/18/6375185/bloodborne-us-release-date-ps4-north-america

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rU8HfemdFc

psyched

this is the goth Dark Souls, right?

steamgothhorror

day after my birthday, seems like as good a time as any to buy a PS4.

siiick

Anyone else playing the alpha?

no i watched some of the videos

you got in?

Yeah - only had a chance to play 30 minutes or so far, but first impressions are great. Feels like an interesting new avenue for the Souls series - not having a shield will take a bit of getting used to.

whats your impression of the a.i.? i was wondering if things respawn always in the same position or if next-gen allows them to randomize the interactions a bit

Hard to say for sure cuz I haven't played much - hoping to get some more time on Sunday before the alpha ends. Didn't seem randomised in the time I played, though, just the traditional Souls repetition.

thats what i got from the videos i saw, stationary dudes but there also seems to roving groups which is awesome. the message and bloodstain markers looked cool too, so much detail

The development team at From Software say there are about ten areas like Yharnam to survive, one of which is called the Chalice Dungeon; an underground catacomb that procedurally generates its pathways.

whoa

sooo, i'll be able to play this online without getting PS+, right?

i think ps+ is now necessary for that. the days of free online w/ ps3 are over

if you need me i'll be in an induced coma so mvrch comes tomorrow

otm

word, thanks. btw i believe my screen name is "Mr_Kitka".

players who pre-order this from game stores in the uk get an exclusive lolfedora skin for their in-game messengers:

https://img.game.co.uk/widgets/images/Bloodborne/widget_Bloodborne.jpg

:(

have these fuckers finally figured out the killer app to get me to buy the goddamn system?
ahma wait for the first batch of reviews but if it's generally positive i guess i'm all in.

next edition of edge due out tomorrow calls it 'the first true next gen essential' apparently

cannot wait. what's the ilg co-op password gonna be?

YOU DIED

i read that it needs to be 8 letters, so YALL DIED

sold

first post in this lolneogaf thread summarises the edge article for those interested: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1008499

key bullet point: "Bloodborne is Hidetaka Miyazaki's brutal riposte to the section of his playerbase that thinks it has seen it all before."

psyched

http://www.mcvuk.com/special-features/read/the-big-game-bloodborne/0166

“Yes,” Miyazaki confirms. “There will be a New Game Plus mode.” He laughs. “We’re having trouble beating it, though.”

am0n, can we be PS4 friends?

yes psn is online7845789547

http://imgur.com/a/uOT3b

The Souls games are about dying - every feeble creature and majestically grotesque monster and crumbling castle in those games is a manifestation of death in its many scary and sometimes beautiful forms. But Bloodborne? Bloodborne’s more about killing.

The rhythm and style of the combat is different, you see, even if it might look broadly similar. In Souls you’re usually on the defensive - you walk into a room with your shield up and can take a few hits before reacting. That just does not happen in Bloodborne. You don’t even have a shield. When something hits you, you have to hit back, and quickly, to regain health.

http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2015/03/16/dark-souls-death-bloodborne-killing

http://www.videogamer.com/ps4/bloodborne/news/danish_blood_donors_offered_free_copy_of_bloodborne.html

Giv dit blud!
I would do this in a second

i don't actually want to know anything more before i play, but i can't look away:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GtcEBBs4rE

i want a positive critical consensus and two freaked out ILXor reviews
and then i'm buying the fucking system god help me

i can't remember the last time i was so hyped for a game, honestly

argh i refuse to watch videos!

Downloading now, it's gonna take days. No more videos or links for me until Thursday (the first chance I'll get to dig in).

http://www.thejimquisition.com/2015/03/bloodborne-review-die-die-again/

glowing reviews so far

Yeah, it's looking good. Common complaint seems to be loading times. 40 seconds after dying? Jeez.

Anyway, psyched.

early reviews obsessively positive:
http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/bloodborne/critic-reviews
i'm hoping the long loading time complaint is addressed by the patch?
Jordan, you are gonna be the guy who determines how my bank account looks in April.

downloading now!

so ready for this

Jordan, you are gonna be the guy who determines how my bank account looks in April.

ha, that's a big responsibility but i will let you know.

it took massive willpower not to start this before work today, there should be some sort of award.

i'm hoping the long loading time complaint is addressed by the patch?

apparently not yet, but soon:

http://www.justpushstart.com/2015/03/bloodborne-long-load-times-will-be-addressed-in-the-next-patch/

hm, will def wait for that to come to fruition

played the first hour. as good as I hoped. one of the character classes is "waste of skin" and has terrible stats haha.

I thought this game was “not for me” but now I realized I was dead wrong

After several years of From immersion I think this might be the pinnacle of their achievements in terms of streamlined combat brilliance and inventory inside baseball

I remember thinking the Chalice Dungeons were “an unfortunate misstep” insofar as they felt like a bland matzo ball occupying an enormous footprint of the game soup

But now that I realize that “they’re for farming” (and Elden Ring taught me that “farming is fun”) my entire outlook on them has changed

They’re far too obscurantist in their execution— even their nomenclature is ridiculously confusing. That said, the fact that “you can’t share items over PvP” means that instead, to hyper power your weapons, you have to spend a lot of time reading spreadsheets? and building random dungeons and rushing through them to murder an overpowered boss? It’s… amazing. This is so fun. It’s like the “boss rush” concept crossed with “the collector bug” and it is pushing all the right buttons for me, this week

Mad coming back to this now that I've beaten Elden Ring, Demon's Souls and Dark Souls.

No wonder I found it so tough as my introduction to the genre. Even for a Souls game it is extremely SCARY and ARCANE and STRESSFUL.

One thing it does, which Elden Ring doesn't, is that it assumes a lot of prior knowledge from the player, so I assume Miyazaki had experienced Souls fans in mind when he made it. As such I would never recommend it as a first Souls game

My order was (I think) DS1, DS3, BB, DS2, ER, Demons. Maybe I did BB second? I wonder what it would be like to go back after playing the two most recent and best optimized Souls/From fantasy games most recently. Would DS and BB seem too janky? Somehow I kind of doubt it, the jankiness has always been a feature, not a bug.

I went back to my early posts in this thread - there was so much ILG co-op happening!

My order was BB, ER, Demons, DS1.

I haven't fully completed BB but in retrospect I had no idea what I was doing. I was pretty much winging it and/or following a YouTube playthrough.

In fact I don't think I really fully clicked into the whoel logic and nature of these games until I watched a lore video about Magma Mansion in ER and then I was like: "AHAAaa! So you have to read the item descriptions and observe the environment, I see!!!" - also: learning about different builds took a long time to click.

I'd be forgiven: Bloodborne diverges from other Soulsborne games in that there are fewer items, fewer item descriptions, and the scenery is so dense with "cool scary shit" that the environmental storytelling and character-build aspects are far less obvious. It's not like you can really specialise in a class in Bloodborne in the same way as the other games; I mean, I know you COULD do a bloodtinge build, but why?

Demon's Souls seemed a lot better for all this, I felt. The story felt less obfuscated and it seemed easier to diversify into different classes. I really really love Demon's Souls Remake - it's easily my favourite after ER - just a joy.

Dark Souls 1 doesn't feel "jank" at all, but it has a patina of grime over it that the other games don't and some of the environments can suddenly grow really dark for some reason, like you're looking through a phone camera lense with a dodgy aperture. I enjoyed it to an extent, but in the same way as eating a very boney piece of fish is enjoyable - you have to know what you're doing to get "pleasure" out of it or else it's very annoying and tough.

I am very tempted by DS2. I hear such wildly mixed reviews of it, but I feel I should at least give it a fair trial. Having played maybe just an hour or two of it so far my impression is that it's a bit janky compared to all the others. Would be brilliant if they did a Bluepoint remake of it

I think I followed the EpicNameBro YouTube walkthrough, and it was illuminating. So many tiny details I would have missed, like slight story driven details that change in the background. His was a really good balance of gameplay and lore. Usually I don't care about the lore, but I really liked it in this particular game.

I would love to see a ground-up DS2 remake using the art style/animations/engine of more recent From games.

I guess the catch is that game has more or less been remade once already, hasn't it? Sort of?

In 2011 I watched my neighbour play DS1 and was impressed. In 2019 I got the Switch version and played through and was perplexed and addicted.

In 2020 I got a PS4 and replayed DS1 and it made more sense the second time. Then I played BB and followed some recommendations and guides and basically hit a wall around Ludwig/Maria, I thought Chalice Dungeons were dumb and not what I liked about From games— the exposition of the environments and immense detail.

Then DS3, and thought it was “the best game I’ve ever played”. I played about four hours of DS2 and said “naw” and haven’t looked back.

Elden Ring came out and I lost a year of my life to it. (Sekiro is too hard for me). Then I came back to Bloodborne. The Chalice Dungeons made sense to me now. I got really into gem diving, I killed probably a hundred Pthumerian Descendents this time last year. Kitted out all my weapons with 20 level gems.

Aside from Baldur’s Gate this past fall for a couple weeks I am done with gaming, I think. Between the new Zelda and the forthcoming Elden Ring DLC I feel like I could lose another year to gaming. It’s too addictive!

I guess the catch is that game has more or less been remade once already, hasn't it? Sort of?

Scholar of the First Sin is more of a remix - enemies and items in different places, lots of red phantom npcs invading you. Something to shake things up for people who played the original version. Although I've seen people complaining that SotFS is the only version that's easily available now, and has become the default definitive version even though it's sort of a riff on the initial release?

Fgti I admire your resolve (although no shame if we see you back for the ER dlc, lol). In my life routine I can't really binge games anyway, I just play when on the exercise bike. And if I'm really obsessed with a new From game I'll get up early before work, and play on weekend afternoons instead of working on music. So far they've been polite about not releasing new games when I'm in the throes of mixing a record.

Arcane is a viable build in Bloodborne. You can do serious damage with some of those hunters’ tools like the Executioner Gloves etc. And the cap is 99 so you can keep pumping points into arcane and adding damage.

DS2 had Scholar of the First Sin but it wasn't a huge jump in quality or anything.

There are big calls to remake Bloodborne, mostly cos it's 30FPS, but I don't think it looks bad at all?
If I were in charge I'd maybe tone down some of the overall clutter, especially in places like Central Yarnham where the amount of coffins and other debris confuse my eyes a bit. It would be lovely to get some proper depth definition on that, really increase the atmosphere etc.

The fps discussion drives me insane. Sure, I can tell the difference now, but it doesn't matter once you start playing. Looks great, plays great.

I previously managed to get up to Micolash and Martyr Logarius in BB, both of which felt like walls, and then ER came out and it felt like a natural place to put it down.

I don't know whether to carry on with this playthrough and just beat it (I understand I'm fairly near the end game anyway); but I'm tempted to just start again from scratch, daunting as that is. I feel like I might gain a lot more from a second playthrough now that I know what I know.

yup, i don't get the FPS stuff either - I can barely tell

I could really do with mothballing my PS5 for a while. Gaming really has gone from being a casual hobby to a several-hours-a-week habit, and I find myself switching on the PS5 most nights by default as soon as I've finished dinner.

I shelled out for Ableton recently and I keep telling myself I need to get stuck into learning how to use it but Baldur's Gate beckoned every night and I haven't even used it yet!

Yeah, I got a Zoia. I have the same obsession going on that I had for games. Making synths that track with violin and guitar, making audio triggered synth drum sounds. I feel weirdly sheepish about how much of lockdown I spent playing From games. I’ll play Elden Ring DLC sometime but not this year I don’t think

I had a go at the Challice Dungeons last night in the hope I could get some upgrade materials and I'm afraid I don't really see the appeal. Maybe I don't really get what they're for other than grinding, which seems dull to me.

I made the mistake of ignoring them when I played the game, so that when I finally dipped in out of curiosity it was pretty silly, beating bosses in one hit or whatever.

It seems at first to be tedious in comparison to the main game, and it is, but the repetitiousness of it starts to appeal like “many hands of bridge” or “many crossword puzzles”. The bosses escalate in difficulty precipitously and become challenging/fun, the rewards are worth it, and once you get into the gem farming part of it it becomes extremely addictive

In a sentence: cursed blood gems offer a big upgrade and a minor debuff. They scale to impossibly high levels of power, and if you get one with an “easy curse” (ATK vs Kin down, or the minor stamina debuff) then stacking these gems makes for wonderful results.

You can also acquire upgrade materials (incl blood stone chunks) so any weapon you desire is maxed out. It’s definitely more of the code-divey “enjoy your combat” kind of play, but very much worth delving into.

The basic progression to attempt to murder the Pthumerian Queen is a big challenge and worth pursuing. You’ll have to fight a much upgraded Amygdala again which sucks but aside from that it’s very pure gaming enjoyment

I was after the Blood Stone Chunks in fact. Im not entirely sure I understand how the various rituals work. I have loads of the materials but I can only seem to create certain types or altar(?) or something(?) Eh...

Anyway, I seem to be doing this because I'm bouncing off both Logarius and Micolash. I think I can probably cheese Micolash but Logarius is NAILS. The other tough fight I can't do is that Cainhurst Crow NPC.

Is it fair to say that Bloodborne is maybe the hardest of the Soulsborne games overall? I haven't played DS2 enough to find out

DS2 has the annoying feature of tying iframes to a stat (adaptability), or at least it used to. So the early game was tough because you barely even have a functional roll, lol. But other than that I'm sure BB is tougher. But really it's just a question of getting used to the rhythms of each game, right?

I remember Logarius taking many tries. But Micolash is the gimmick boss who runs away from you, right?

Yeah that's right. My sense of direction is appalling so I end up running around the labyrinth house and getting decked by skellingtons a lot

It's worth learning about how Chalice Dungeon generation works so that you can generate any dungeon you desire. It is esoteric and confusing, I still don't fully understand it. Once you've unlocked the capacity to generate any possible dungeon, you can consult online databases of glyphs and find gems and items and armaments and anything you want. You'll also face some insanely hard enemies.

My last play through, I was focusing on an Arcane build. I had three weapons that I used. A fire-based Saw Spear, a bolt-based Saw-Cleaver, and a physical-based Church Pick. The best gems for these involved generating a cursed (you have half-health) 5-level root dungeon and descending down to the bottom and killing a Pthumerian Descendent. He would drop, usually, a level 19 or 20 gem; ideally, I wanted a level 20 "Cold Abyssal Cursed Blood Gem", one that paired maximum damage boost (either fire, bolt or physical) with a manageable curse (either stamina debuff, atk vs. kin down, or durability). There are many found glyphs that created optimal conditions for this endeavour, listed online. I would make it to the bottom, save outside the arena and killed him and save-scummed and reloaded and killed him again, over and over, until I got the gem I wanted. It was a highly enjoyable chore. I killed that Descendent 200 times at least. Immediately after getting my first useable Abyssal gem, my weapon went from flimsy to ironclad, and the game became much more manageable.

Cainhurst Crow NPC.

Oh shit, is this the one in the cathedral later? I don't think I ever bothered with him. Whatever guide I was following I think essentially warned that no matter how good or strong you are, it's basically a long slog of a fight.

Yeah, a crazy NPC who Eileen the Crow has trouble with (you meet her outside rather dishevelled). He heals constantly, has quickstep and I think has ranged attacks too

I keep coming back to this, often starting a fresh game just to refamiliarise myself with it. And also to see if, having beaten Demons Souls, Dark Souls, Elden Ring and a good chunk of Sekiro and DS2, I might have improved at playing this.
No. It's still really really tough. Or at least the start of the game is. I'm surprised more players don't just give up before Old Yarnham

From Bloomberg:

There was one idea that seemed perfect: Bloodborne, a gothic action game released in 2015 for the PlayStation 4. Developed by FromSoftware, Bloodborne is widely considered to be one of the greatest games ever made, but its original release suffered from frame-rate drops and other technical issues, making it the natural fit for the Bluepoint treatment. Fans had been dreaming of a Bloodborne remake for years, and the idea had been strongly considered and at one point was even expected within Bluepoint but never entered production.

In early 2025, when Bluepoint again pitched the idea of Bloodborne remake, the studio was told that the numbers made sense but FromSoftware didn’t want it to happen, according to people familiar with the process.

Former PlayStation executive Shuhei Yoshida shared a theory last year that this might be the case, saying in an interview with Kinda Funny Games that he thought FromSoftware president Hidetaka Miyazaki was interested in remaking the classic game but too busy to do it himself and “doesn’t want anyone else to touch it.” He added that he thought PlayStation would respect Miyazaki’s wishes despite owning the franchise.

Bullet Dodged

bloodborne is already a modern game with modern graphics, it doesn't need a remake, just needs a tune-up for PS5

it was a japan studio project so the people on the sony side who were involved with its development are gone. i assume that complicates their ability to do that, even if sony won't admit it

How hard is it to beef up and optimize a game from 30fps to 60fps? There's not just a toggle for that or something? No idea how that works. Regardless, I really enjoyed the Bluepoint Demon's Souls (and Shadow of the Colossus). Both of them looked great, and Demon's Souls, years later, may still be the best looking game on the PS5.

increasing resolution is easy but changing framerate can break the game if it wasn't designed to scale up. usually requires a bit more work under the hood. things like attack animations might be hard synced for 30 so they will happen at double speed if you raise the framerate, etc.

Personally I'd love it if Bloodborne got the Bluepoint treatment. I think it's a wonderful game. The frame rate thing doesn't bother me so much as thinking the visual clutter is very much of its time and seemed to exist solely to show off the PS4's capacity to have lots of "stuff" going on all of the time.

There's a fair bit I would change if I could play god. It would frustrate die-hard fans if I were to say fuck having to farm for vials and bullets, for example.

It's part of the game, of course and messing with the mechanics of the game might be sacrosanct.

But seriously: Fuck having to farm for vials. I don't want to stand in that doorway killing wolves again and again every time I ran out just so I could get on with the amazing journey this game takes you on.

So yeah, I loved the Demon's Souls remake. Sod it, give Dark Souls a face-lift while you're at it too. I'm not a purist - that game looks like dogshit sometimes and my modern sensibilities would love a little polish

Demon's Souls remake really is one of the best looking games isn't it. I love it

currently hitting demons on the ps3 and we really didn't need the graphical arms race post-ps3. We peaked. Everything since has been churn+burn for $$$ /w minimal benefit.

Remakes suck, It's incredibly easy to play something old. You can typically buy the original hardware for the price of the flashy new game.

Yes, but would I have, is the question. I didn't come back to games until midway through the PS4 cycle, so I missed the PS1-3 generations entirely. Much as I enjoy the Souls games I'm not sure I'd have gone the lengths to buy a secondhand PS3 and trawl the internet for an accessible copy of Demon's Souls.

That said, whether a remake is necessary or not, I do think it would be great if most games were available as backwards compatible on the newest generations.

But yes, I'm glad I got to experience Demon's Souls Remake, especially as it looked so glorious on the PS5 when it came out and almost justified its existence as a console

Heh I still haven't played the remake, but at some point before it existed I did borrow a friend's old PS3 (and copy of Demon's Souls, unless I tracked that down myself).

I never had a problem with 30 fps, but would play a BB remake if it existed.

I don't mind 30fps either, it just seems like the first update anyone gives older games.

I don't recall Bloodborne being particularly cluttered, and even if, it feels very much a part of the design (which is awesome). And even as far as farming goes, that's pretty much part and parcel of From games. Souls, items, whatever, you're likely going to be farming at some point. For whatever reason I find it much less onerous in From games than I did shard-farming in Silksong.

Dark Souls has already had a PS4-era remaster and rerelease, not sure it really needs another one?

If we're talking something visually on par with nu Demon's Souls, then sure, why not?

because it's a huge waste of resources to remake a game thats already on current systems? make a new game or port/remake something else from ps2/ps3

Idk, one thing I like about From games is you don't really have to farm/grind. If I find myself doing that it's usually because I should really just be learning the boss and I'm trying to brute force it.

My memory of the vials is that it wasn't a big deal when I was really playing the game for the first time, but was very annoying on a replay when I was rushing through and not worrying about killing everything (then would hit a boss and run out of vials).

xp PS3 isn't a current systemm and as far as I know, DeS original was a cult game that didn't sell brilliantly, so it made sense to remake it. Or did you mean Bloodborne?

I agree that these remakes/remasters can get ridiculous. Remastering TLOU2 after what felt like a year rrally was pushing things into unnecessary territory. But yo, I do think they did a great job on the DeS Remake - it feels so opulent, and there's the haptic feedback and immersive sound too

one thing I like about From games is you don't really have to farm/grind

Well, that's the thing about From games: you don't *have* to do anything. You can fight and win with no weapons or armor if you want, playing on a set of bongos with your eyes closed, as people have done. But as someone that hasn't replayed one of these games or DLCs yet, I want to get the most out of my first and possibly only playthrough, which in my case has always meant grinding for souls: to level up, to buy shit, to level up enough to use the thing I bought, and so on. It's the closest thing to an easy mode for casuals like me. The games are always stacked against you, so hell yeah I'm going to take advantage of every, er, advantage, since it's still going to be challenging. Brute force can only get you so far, at least in my experience.

Gem farming in Bloodborne proved to be more addictive than nicotine ime

It's been wonderful coming back to this game recently. Especially after so much time away and now having played through so many of the other Souls games.

Coming to BB a few years ago as a novice gamer, no wonder I struggled so much with the basics. I was baffled by the mechanics and frustrated by the difficulty.

I struggled so much with the admittedly very tough first section with the multiple roaming enemies and the burning pyre. It took time to learn that the best course of action was to make several necessary runs and then to rush past all the enemies once I'd collected all the items.

On my first run through I ended up following a YouTube guide, getting as far as Micolash before putting it down to pick up Elden Ring which had just come out.

Since then I've platinumed ER, completed DS1, fought through the majority of DS2 & 3, and given Sekiro a bloody good go too. Every one is the same, every one is different.

Bloodborne is notable in its differences. In retrospect I wouldn't recommend it for beginners. The variables differ significantly enough from the other Souls games that I missed a number of essential lessons and mechanics which I wouldn't pick up until a good way through Elden Ring.

And while on booting up BB for the first time in years more recently filled me with trepidation, I feel a lot more in control.

For one, I'm seeing a LOT fewer You Died screens. That's to be expected. But "gitting gud" is a real thing.

Central Yharnam feels more like a playground full of fun things to do than this big intimidating trek into the unknown. In the tradition of great From opening areas, it is fiendishly labyrinthine. Full of hidden little nooks and shortcuts and parts you might miss on first, second, even third pass.

The thing about the From games is that they have an internal language. And part of the appeal and challenge of these games comes from learning the vernacular.

Being able to spot, say, a ladder down to a shortcut or a place to roll off to a platform below comes only with experience. On my first playthrough I was left wondering how ANYONE might be able to spot these.

Knowing to carefully survey the environment is a learnt skill in itself. And while BB encourages a more offensive playstyle compared to the other games, that doesn't mean it rewards rushing through. Far from it. You have to be inching your way along. Constantly using your camera and using the lock on feature to spot enemies before they spot you.

Taking time to look out on distant vistas and observing the faraway architecture also helps. In Old Yharnam I was able to spot a werewolf crawling up a wall ready to jump down and surprise me.

And once you learn to analyse your environment, that's where the storytelling comes into play. I played most of Bloodborne the first time round as an arcade action game. I didn't have a scooby about what was going on, just that I was moving through a bunch of creepy environments and fighting different bosses.

There are far fewer unique items in Bloodborne, and with that a lot less emphasis on reading item descriptions to fill in the gaps in the story.

In fact it wasn't until I got to Volcano Manor in Elden Ring that it all clicked into place: That I was meant to be reading item descriptions at the soonest opportunity, observing where those items had been left, taking-in the details of the environment around me.

This is a small gripe I have with Bloodborne: There is a lot of visual clutter. Coffins, crates, cadavers - they're littered throughout the environment and so the signal-to-noise ratio is pretty low. Is a dead body in the ground meant to signify something important, or is it just there for show? In BB it can be hard to tell, so I might forgive myself for not really grasping the concept of environmental storytelling in this game.

Still, it does exist. It does occur, but perhaps in even subtler ways than ever before. And let's not forget FromSoft's incredibly easy to break NPC quests too. Nothing new here.

But yeah. Wow. This game. I'm in Old Yharnam and having such a laugh m. If anything Bloodborne is the most undiluted Spuls experience. And while I'm enjoying getting to wield more control over the thing, it's still challenging and scary!

nice write up!

I forget where I was looking recently, but some post managed to sum up the story in basically three sentences, and it blew me away. I'd never really delved into the lore of these From games, cuz it takes too much work/reading, so to see someone do so so efficiently was very impressive.

Since Elden Ring it's become a big part of the fun for me. It goes so deep in that game that I'd be tempted to say it challenges Tolkien. And there's a whole cottage industry of YouTubers (some good, some bad) who are into (over)analysing these things.

But yeah, it's just as easy to play these games and enjoy them without doing all that archaeology / detective work. For me it is satisfying to pick up an item and realise the body you picked it up from belongs to the person described in the item description etc...

In a lot of ways the ambiguity of it all adds to the sense of loneliness coursing though all the games.