Hollow Knight

This game is so great it deserves its own thread.

I'm now 35 hours or so into this, and I have no idea how much progress I have made. Every time I play it I discover something new, or a new power, or a new secret. The map gets bigger, there are new enemies. And I get better, too. But as I posted on the other thread, I'm still not even sure what the objective is, so I have no clue how close I am to achieving that! Which is a little annoying, except that the design and writing and gameplay is so exemplary I'm having a blast just wandering around, finding and fighting things. I haven't had this much fun playing a game in ages, and I feel like in some ways it's preparing me for when I finally get around to cracking open my copy of Dark Souls on the PS4.

this is a dark souls game posing as a metroid game and i got duped by it

I think it's a great hybrid of lots of stuff, but I think what is key for me is as of yet I'm not sick of looking at it. I just love the art and design. That was my problem with Celeste (besides hurting my thumbs and me not really getting any better at it).

Something else I've liked about it so far is that I don't think I've hit an enemy or spot I couldn't figure out yet, or at least that required some sort of trick or luck or esoteric strategy. Part of that is because you can almost always go another way, or try some other area. You're never actually "stuck," and whether it's a tricky bit of platforming or an enemy there is no help, per se, just sticking with it until you do the thing. I have turned to one or two wikis or videos, but since there is no right or wrong way to proceed - I've heard of people making it super far before even learning they can upgrade their nail - my biggest takeaway has been discovering stuff/routes/secrets I just didn't see or missed. Or in the case of, say, the dash slash or whatever it is called, needing to look up instructions for how to perform it right. The game is definitely tougher than Steamworld, Dig 2, but iirc in that one I encountered more dead ends that required guidance.

An exception are the plumes of smoke coming up from the ground. I had no clue how to pass them and still don't, because I did a quick google and the explanation was convoluted and foreign to me at this point I decided to just cross that bridge when it became more obvious.

And again, I have absolutely no idea how much of this world I have not explored yet. I have a feeling I'm still at the tip of the iceberg.

Heh, I had accumulated over 10,000 geo just goofing around, and then I lost it all doing something stupid (or at least underestimating a commonplace enemy). Oh well, back to the grind!

this game owns

... but is insanely hard

See, posts like that make me wonder if indeed I have only scratched the surface of the game. I've explored tons, but so far nothing has seemed significantly (as in, stuck for hours) hard, at least not compared to Celeste or even Shovel Knight. An exception so far is Crystal Peak, which I find very frustrating, but I seem to be doing OK otherwise! Though to be fair I don't think I've even tried fighting any of the Dream bosses, and my discovery of the flower delivery quest ended in miserable failure when I diligently made it all the way to the (wrong) place only to get injured and lose the challenge at the last second (though I did discover something useful on the way there, so I guess that's a win?).

insanely was maybe an exaggeration but in my defense I was drunk when I posted that. I was stuck on the hornet but just applied a little patience and cleared her pretty handily. about 2/3 hours into the game now

This game is just the right level of challenge, IMO

I am 40 hours deep, and I think in the home stretch. Just did the second fight with Hornet, taken out 2 of the 3 dreamers, and mapped all the areas except one, I think. The plot is still almost totally opaque to me. Is it possible to get the story without having to watch a bunch of lore videos on YouTube?

I am over 40 hours and nowhere near where you are, I don't think ... or I don't know. I keep finding new stuff to distract me. Right now I keep losing my soul ghost in that sealed room with a beating heart and all those manifesting poison-spitting bee-things (not the Hive). I think I have a long way to go, and regret not leaving more markers on my map.

Out of curiosity I glanced online at a map, and thankfully I think I've explored most/much of the world at this point. Now it's just a matter of discovering all the secrets, unlocking powers, beating enemies/bosses/challenges, that sort of thing, which should be fun!

On sale for $10 right now!!!

I've just opened up my fifth station and I love this so far. The atmosphere and rhythm of it is great, not getting a map at first in each area is a clever way to step up the sense of danger.

My one complaint is the annoying decision to assign the unnecessary quick cast to R - it's too close to RT and I've accidentally triggered it at the worst possible moment so many times.

Apparently they just updated it with a big new free DLC.

Whenever I get stuck I admit I glance at an online map, not for any specific hint but for a general direction as to where to go. But I sometimes I also check in with a particular youtube walkthrough, which is only so helpful, given the person is doing different things in a different order. And yet, every once in a while I watch and he pops into some place for the first time, some place I have been to dozens of times, and just immediately knocks down a hidden wall or finds a secret passage. Similarly faces various challenges in a seriously underpowered state, challenges I have problems with even after getting the thing that does the thing. What the fuck, dude!? How do you do that?

Bought it in the sale and enjoying it so far. Does a story/point develop or is it just amiably running and jumping in different directions?

I think the latter? I have played almost 60 hours and have no idea what's going on!

I should stress/clarify that as I progress, things *are*changing and developing, and there is an overarching mythology to the world. I'm just not quite clear on the ultimate goal, or whether I am moving toward it. I'm certainly doing stuff, but I think it's partly a matter of trying different things and exploring different areas until other things and areas make themselves apparent to you. And with those areas and things and powers come more aspects of the mythology.

That said, every once in a while I get stuck and hit the internet for advice, and sometimes the advice is all stuff I'm am totally unfamiliar with! And I've made a lot of progress! "Oh, first you should get the thing from the place after you beat the guy." And I think, huh, that seems harder than what I'm trying to achieve!

I'm enjoying wandering around randomly! I hope I don't have to remember too much about where I've been.

That said I'm wondering about getting a different controller - I'm not sure the basic set that comes with the Switch is really that suited to platforming. Had the same problem with Celeste. It's hard to do little micro-moves with the joystick.

I had a much easier time with this and the regular Switch controllers than I did with Celeste. But Celeste benefitted from the Pro, if only for comfort.

This is great! Maybe the first Switch game outside of Zelda that I feel like I've really connecting with. But even just finding the coin for the quill and compass seems pretty hard!

It gets easier, gradually. But you know what? I've accumulated so many power-ups and charms and abilities, improved my nail three times, and still I have yet to encounter anything that made me feel overpowered. Even the simplest enemies can take you down if you don't pay attention, and some of the simpler enemies suddenly get more difficult as you progress in the game. Nothing is easy, just easier.

I take it back: the Dream Shield charm, plus or minus a couple of others, has really helped me steamroll the last few bosses, even bosses that had given me a lot of trouble before (like Watcher Knights and Hive Knight). I don't know if it counts as overpowered, because I am terrible and need the help, but a few of those charms (plus extra life, etc.) have really made a big difference, at least added to my growing experience.

Another thing: I had made good progress but ran up against a figurative wall and needed to get a hint online. Not only had I totally forgotten about a boss I'd put off, even if I had beat said boss I literally would have had no idea what to do next. I would have just dashed around indefinitely. I don't know if that's because I missed a clue, or didn't understand, or what, but the game's dedication to ambiguity and elliptical mythology would have gotten me nowhere without some concrete direction. How some of these (you?) serious gamers figure all this shit out is beyond me.

Made it to Greenpath! Loving this. Hands hurt.

Wonderful music too.

feels like the jump button has a lag. Or has different timing than most other games.

Jump is fine for me! But finding it a little awkward attacking baddies on the diagonal (although maybe it's meant to be)

I think there's a problem with my controller when not directly connected. or maybe I am just bad.

jumping is really crisp for me. sounds like a controller issue

Like I said, I'm generally not very good at these games, and not being a game ninja it takes me longer than many to get a hang of things, but I've been cruising along at a pretty steady clip here so I assume the controls are pretty solid. My theory is that lots of 8-bit styled platformers, whether something challenging like Shovel Knight or punishing like Celeste, the style of the art lends themselves to very precise control movement, down to the pixel. But Hollow Knight (like Steamworld) is so beautifully stylized/designed/drawn that while it can be challenging it feels a little less pixel-precise. There are a couple places with very tough platform moves and attacks, but it all feels very graceful to me, not at all mechanical. That said, I've yet to be able to master the nail bounce in Hollow Knight, and I think that is the downside of its art style; when there's something specific and mechanical you have to do, doing something based almost on intuition and instinct rather than robotic precision is a bit more trouble. I dunno. I wonder how I'd do at something like Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze.

I feel like I'm in the home stretch of this game by the way, certainly the final 20% or so, though I get the impression there's an advanced mode or something you need to beat to really finish it.

I have three weeks before I go back to work when I thought I'd have a crack at finishing Middlemarch finally, but, uh, Hollow Knight

All right I started playing this and beat the first boss…it’s good

This game is so good that sometimes I can't even tell if I'm even fighting a boss.

Curious to see how Dark Souls hits you Josh. I haven’t played HK yet (have it on the Switch tho, wanna get thru Zelda first), but a lot of things you’re talking about sound very much DS inspired.

I got it all figured out. Hollow Knight, then finish Doom, then Dark Souls. I can tell you right now that Hollow Knight is at times cute, and funny, and always nice to look at, even when it is really dark. Dark Souls is all gloom all the time isn't it?

um, well, there's a certain humor that can potentially be found in dying a lot, if you look at it from one perspective. but yeah, not too cheerful. but it does an excellent job of setting a distinct and memorable mood

Yeah it’s super gloom for the most part but there’s comedy to be had through getting wrecked like Karl said. Also unexpected lols from certain enemies.

Meant more the unexplained, esoteric nature of it. Also it’s supposed difficulty, but sounds like you’re managing it pretty well in HK.

Man, this Hornet is really really really really hard for a second level Boss

Yeah I'm not much farther than you are and I had trouble with Hornet too - all I can say is just be patient, keep your distance, get in a hit or two when you can but just try to avoid her hits and wear her down

I am super stuck on Hornet too. As much as I appreciate not having to fight bosses again if you'd rather just peace out and do something else (and it's cool you can get your shade back without initiating the boss fight), I wish you could just hit "try again" rather than spending a couple minutes after every regen filling up with soul and heading back to their lair.

The Switch is the first videogame system I've played since the PS2, and the deterioration in my skills is never more evident than when I mess up and die fighting Hornet because my hands are sweaty lol. This game is extremely pretty and fun though, and I look forward to maybe getting to see at least one more area.

Hornet is pretty tough. Mantis Lords are super tough. Watcher Knights were hard. I'm trying to remember a few more. None has been totally maddening yet, except maybe Hive boss for me, mostly because I would get my ass kicked on my way there by enemies, so I'd arrive in a weakened state.

I took an hour and like eight tries to beat the soul master today. After taking an hour and like twelve tries to even open up the way to his room. I haven’t played a game tuned to this kind of difficulty since Viewtiful Joe I think. (Which I never beat.) Celeste B-sides are harder but the deaths are much less of a punishment so they don’t key me up as much.

I think - and I could be wrong - that as you go along money/geo becomes less important, so losing that cash (and the time spent accumulating it) isn't as soul destroying. Plus, there's that dude you can unlock up in Dirthmouth who will restore your soul for a rotten egg, which is a) funny and b) a relief. I do like the spikes in difficulty, though. It keeps me engaged. I thought every single second of "Celeste" was tough, which eventually turned me off.

I really hate this game and love it

I'm definitely really close to (I think) the (first) final boss, and I only know that because once again I more or less did everything I thought I was supposed to be doing and literally had no idea what to do next and had to look it up.

can someone come to my house and do hornet please

iirc just take your time and heal when you get the chance. I want to say there are times she gets tired and you are tempted to attack, but sometimes you just got to take one for the team and heal instead.

if you think hornet is hard just wait for hornet v.2

yeah i never got past hornet the game wasn't hooking me enough to persevere

I'm reminded specifically of a game like Ori, which I loved and I didn't think was that bad, but a good friend of mine bounced off pretty early because he found it too difficult. Different strokes, etc. Me, I'm stoked to get home, finish the mediocre game I started, then get right into this.

I've gotten to the boss at the end of the game's first quest. It's harder than anything else so far.

do you mean a side quest boss or a main quest boss? because if it's a side quest boss you absolutely should come back later

a lot of stuff in that review is just wrong and it seems the reviewer got to the point where they were too frustrated to really approach anything in good faith

(discussion of a particular trap relatively early in the game)

The infamous bench within Hunter’s March is a microcosm of Hollow Knight: Silksong’s uniquely tiring brand of deliberate cruelty: a safe refuge after an extended series of increasingly difficult platforming and combat challenges ending in a tough gauntlet that likely leaves you with low health — except, unlike every other bench in the game, this one breaks Hollow Knight: Silksong’s own rules of safety and swings a deadly spike trap at you upon sitting down. It’s not reactable unless you know it’s there, and it’s very unlikely for a player to be looking for the well-hidden trap mechanism amongst the greenery in the ceiling.

it is a fairly mean trap but it's also completely avoidable if you're observant, it's not unfair but it is teaching the player that the game rewards being observant and exploring. maybe i'm just immune to being mad at that sort of thing because i love la-mulana but idk it's really not that bad

Others, such as enemy contact, almost every attack, and most environmental hazards dealing two masks of damage — Hornet starts with only five precious masks of life — alongside the arduous, several-minute-long runbacks to several bosses due to cruel bench placements, are closer to making the player suffer just for the sake of living up to the ‘Soulslike experience’.

there are certainly more enemies & bosses that do two damage in silksong, and that does make the early game particularly punishing, but it's not "almost every attack" and not contact with most enemies. they did nerf most of the environmental hazards in the patch to only do 1 damage and that was a good change. there are no several-minute boss runbacks. the one everyone's heavily complaining about is 30 seconds with all enemies being easily avoidable, it's nowhere near as bad as a large amount of fromsoft runbacks. there's a single one that's genuinely pretty frustrating but it's still not that bad compared to a lot of fromsoft ones.

Unless you’ve stocked up on strings to keep your loose currency together, the fear of losing them all by dying on your way back to a cocoon will be at the forefront of your mind, especially with how few are given out for the majority of the runtime (without grinding, of course).

there's a few areas where the game doesn't give you many beads, which can feel a bit frustrating, but they've adjusted the economy a bit in the first patch & as they say it's possible to mitigate your losses by buying the strings, it's just not that big of a deal. once you're in act 2 proper the game is throwing beads at you in huge amounts and you can grind for them pretty quickly if you really need to, so "majority of the runtime" is just totally incorrect and only makes sense with the later revelation that the reviewer gave up on it early into act 2 for an extremely stupid reason.

Aspects auxiliary to the main exploration and combat loop, such as side quests and Hornet’s customisable equipment, are also a little underbaked. Side quests come in the form of Wishes, requests from various bugs and pilgrims for Hornet to help out their corner of Pharloom. The small bits of characterisation and humour that these grant to the citizens are the highlights of Team Cherry’s writing, but in practice, they’re often little more than ‘Kill x amount of this enemy’.

On your travels, you’ll acquire various tools and Crests, either through finding them in hidden rooms or as Wish rewards, to make Hornet’s playstyle your own. Offensive tools offer variation and ranged utility in combat, deploying gadgets like floating spike traps or firebombs alongside needle and silk attacks, but for every Warding Bell that substantively alters the risk-reward of healing mid-combat and creates interesting player choice, there’s a Compass.

It’s a baffling decision to include in a toolset with limited slots, as there is no reason you would ever unequip it, effectively removing one customisable slot from Hornet’s tool pouch entirely.

the side quests that are just 'kill x of this enemy' are total filler and a clear weak point, but thankfully there's not very many of them. complaining about the compass is ridiculous though - it takes up a yellow slot and there's really not much competition for yellow slots once you get far enough (not that far) to have unlocked a single extra slot. i understood the complaint a little more about the first game, where the charm slots were all general-purpose so there were interesting trade-offs and i'd usually have one build for exploration and one build for boss fights, but in silksong there's not usually anything i want to replace the compass with, even for boss fights where it does nothing, it's kinda the opposite problem.

After all of this, with the end in sight, Hollow Knight: Silksong threw a curveball that ground the pace to a halt and destroyed all excitement I held to complete the game. A sudden, mandatory fetch quest drags Hornet around mostly the same area Act 2 has been limited to for the past five to ten hours, just to earn permission to reach the final boss. It’s a disappointing pace-breaker to close an already inconsistently paced game out on, and recalls the much-maligned Artifact hunt at the end of Metroid Prime — a mistake that should never be repeated.

this is just completely wrong. once you beat the first main quest boss in act 2 (which is pretty early in act 2), you are told you need to collect three things to reach the final area and the locations are marked on your map. these are found in sizeable new areas that were previously inaccessible before that boss, and that makes up the bulk of act 2 (though there are a lot of other optional areas too). it's not at all like the artifact hunt in metroid prime which was entirely lengthy (it didn't have a fast travel system) backtracking into previous areas to find hidden items with only vague clues to help you, which has been pretty fairly criticised as tedious padding. it seems like the reviewer just gave up at this point, early in act 2, because they made a bad, completely groundless assumption about what the rest of the game was going to be like? makes it clear it's not worth taking seriously at least

I've beaten Widow! The best part of which is progressing obviously, but the next best is not having to hear her horrible vocalizations anymore. I heard on a podcast that one of Hornet's tools is really useful against bosses, which I'd been sleeping on prior. Something interesting too is that even though she is a typical boss in that you react to openings instead of charging in, you can still be relatively aggressive in attacking her, at least in her first stage. In her second stage, my winning run was extremely cautious, just trying to avoid her attacks and the bells and only trying to land a single hit when she charges by, and then throwing traps during breaks.

Interestingly, I felt incredible after defeating her, a feeling I never got beating bosses in Bloodborne. I'm trying to think of why and the only thing I can come up with is that the atmosphere of decay and oppression added to my discomfort, while so many characters in HK and Silksong have cute designs.

started playing this weekend. is the map lady giving anyone else q lazzarus vibes? i keep expecting her to break out into “goodbye horses”

so close to act 3 - just need to find a few more fleas, I think…

I started replaying Hollow Knight and it's easier than I remember. I remembered the "wave" boss rooms being grueling but they are so simple compared to Silksong's.

Also, Hollow Knight's dash is far worse than Silksong's. Silksong's complex dash is one of my favorite parts of the game.

uhhh act 3 is nails

seems like another step change in difficulty - not sure how far in I’ll get

ufo I think that your points largely stand, but AFAIK Team Cherry didn't send preview codes out to any reviewers, so I expect that the VGC one was written with more haste than usual.

think I’ve died more to the first (seemingly more trivial) boss in act 3 than I did in the others combined. feels that way at least - lack of readable tells, some very cruel pinches, and homing missiles… not fun. may be reaching end of road sooner than I’d though

and I think my architect crest is bugged - it won’t let me re-craft tools so I can’t just cheese it with drones

lol, i spent the last 4-5 hours of gameplay trying to figure out how to double jump or wall climb. i thought i’d explored absolutely everywhere i could access, and then of course i finally consulted a video and saw there there was this wide open door in shellwood i was supposed to go through a very long time ago

turns out the answer was ‘git gud’

finally went to the abyss to obtain the farsight so can now see I’m at 72% completion

I was stuck vs Moss Mother so I decided to give Hunter's Match another shot, and the arena fight is completely different now!

Moss Mother down! (An interesting side note is that on the way there is ran by a couple flies because I didn't feel like spending time fighting them, and after the arena unlocked the flies were still there and in fact flew in!)

I've also beaten the mini arena in Hunter's March and unlocked some shortcuts into it, so now I have the Savage Beast Fly to look forward to. Am I actually gitting gud??

depending on what upgrades you have - SBF might be relatively straightforward. SBF 2 is the real fun

Saw a bit of Jacob Geller's take. He really likes it but says that while he would recommend Hollow Knight to pretty much anyone that likes video games, he thinks Silksong has a much narrower appeal because, in his words, it's "unbelievably hard." I'm further intrigued that he implies (as did this other guy) that the difficultly level is sort of ... thematic?

Anyway, can't wait! (though for me it still has to wait a bit, lol)

lol pls no

Hello Team Cherry
I would like to apply for the position of designing boss fights for the pantheon in silksong pic.twitter.com/sipAsi4vJO

— Pingi🐧 (@pingi_pro_max) September 18, 2025

lol

Sinners Path: so far my most reliable tactic against those damn roaches is to jump into their jaws to ragdoll me and then spam attacks while I still have i frames.

i just tried to avoid them

what were TC smoking when they came up with those lads

that biome rivalled only by stinking bilewater in the main game for annoyance levels

area in spoilers is up next for you, leee, after SR. enjoy…

I'm already there and I hate it too.

lol

what about

I'd like to suggest one change pic.twitter.com/2JvdgYOjZO

— Kuuhaku (@Kuuhaku3993) September 18, 2025

some aspects of the difficulty are definitely thematic, some are just that the early game was a bit overtuned, and some are just the game being balanced around hornet having a lot more options than the knight in the first game

Starting the game out now, think I'm 3-5 hours in, bosses so far have been challenging but quite reasonable, with Lace being the most recent and hardest. She was kinda fun though, and it was clear you were supposed to use your new move set to beat her. Does the difficulty ramp up in a big way after that?

The hardest bosses for me have been when they spawn minions or arena fights. I've just finished Act 1 and being disciplined about waiting for an opening and not getting greedy made the fight straightforward.

BTW now that I'm in Act 2, I'm still missing a map for Bilewater -- is that to be expected?

minions are the worst

the early game bosses people seem to struggle the most with are after lace (well, you can get to some of them before lace but most people aren't going to), though some of them were nerfed in the first patch

you need some movement upgrades to get to that map

FWIW I am really enjoying the aesthetics and gameplay a lot more than the original Hollow Knight, whose early game felt very limited in its color palette and seemed harder to navigate

discus
https://aftermath.site/silksong-problems-runback-criticism

Second patch just went live, iirc.

Couriers rasher you've got to be kidding me. Hated this in the first game, I'm sure this will be utter Hell.

lol - it gets a little easier once you optimise your route and get the movement speed charm. another thing you can do is on a failed run retrace your steps clearing out all enemies. as long as you don't rest at a bench, only the minor bugs will respawn next time through

my one tip in hindsight would be do not rush into act 3. the game gets significantly different (and harder)

I'm going to have to wait quite a bit of time before I can actually tackle that quest, since I apparently haven't gotten certain movement skills yet, nor have I opened all the paths in.

Bit stuck on multiple fronts.

In the High Hall, I've gotten as far as the arena, and I was getting wrecked by that big guy. I beat him, thinking he's surely the last one, then I get another way of manageable guys, then TWO big guys. Cherry are sadists.

Mount Fay; I resent having gotten decent at the first half(?) (God I hope that's halfway) with the bit outside, but getting back inside, I think I'm missing another skill, or something.

And then Sam Bankman Fried, of course.

courier's rasher is nowhere near as bad as it seems, you're not really expected to be able to do it asap. it's much easier once you've upgraded movement abilities and fully explored (there are some alternate routes to the obvious one), and clearing out enemies beforehand is pretty essential.

high hall is a 'come back later' thing - you don't have to do it immediately so may as well leave it until you've got less to do. there are other some unrelated quests that can make it easier, but in general the trick to making the last fight possible is saving some strong tools to rapidly spam at one of them.

you can definitely do mount fay with the abilities you have

having completed celeste (through the C sides) stood me in good stead for mount fay

then TWO big guys. Cherry are sadists.

― Lauren Epsom (Leee)

i was upset about this too and turned to the internet and there is a way to cheese them

i do really like the citadel overall tho pretty cool how the game starts out very hollow knight then switches aesthetics

Yes and the soundtrack, especially in Choral Chambers, is gorgeous.

I beat Hollow Knight including the second boss. Once again I lost most interest right when I reached the end.

I restarted Silksong. I beat most early bosses on the first or second attempt. I even beat the moorwing and savage beastfly which I had given up on before. early silksong boss/horde hint: the air and ground traps are excellent for killing off lesser enemies during fights. Now to fight the act 1 boss again.

Me currently on my way to mount fay, stopping every few minutes so that my papa can dry.

Took like 3 hours but I finally reached the summit.