No more pallet puzzles: THE LAST OF US PART II

02/21/2020!

spoiler alert, joel is actually dead in this one

Guess I should link this too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II5UsqP2JAk

This is a much lower key reaction than I expected.

i’m trying to remain as spoiler-free as possible tbh

i thought the first one was genuinely masterful so i’m looking forward to this one a lot

joel is actually dead in this one

i’m trying to remain as spoiler-free as possible tbh

if it turns out joel is dead in this one i’m gonna be upset at spoiling myself, just to be clear

Honestly, seeing the early teases for the second one (even though I haven't played the first one yet!) is what made me want to get a PS4, iirc. I figure by the time I get through the first one, the second one will be discounted.

CMON PLAY ITTTT JOSH (bizarro is proving no fun).

jks

What new information does the Sony Worldwide president have about this hotly anticipated release? pic.twitter.com/bh9Revorkp

— Onion Gamers Network (@OnionGamers) October 9, 2019

delayed to may 29

i'm actually happy whenever a title gets delayed at this point in my life. crush those bugs

The Abby boss is straight out of John Carpenter's The Thing

lol at an earlier post itt

So I've reached the point where you play as a different character, which as game design seems to risky! I get that Naughty Dog wants you to view the character as a fleshed out person, but the timing of the POV switch isn't great: I'm Ellie, facing a narrative climax, and all of a sudden we change time and place and I feel like I've been sent back to square one -- it's frustrating!

I agree, but it doesn’t take long to get into it. It is very uncanny though. Different skill trees, different crafting options. I’m always starting to feel a little bit like “fuck that Ellie bitch”

always already

And like... for a game it’s risky, I get that, but it just shows how low the bar is creatively. “you and I, we are not so different” was already pretty hackneyed when John Woo was doing it

Can we assume anyone reading this has beaten the game yet? I guess it's only been two weeks, but...

There's a lot of ideas in this game that can be described so simply, but I think the game deserves more credit. (For instance, I think it goes far beyond "Revenge is bad!" but I'm still collecting my thoughts.) I loved that twist, though I also felt a bit annoyed at the time - gameplay-wise it was sort of a Metroid-esque skill reset. In the Abby run I think you lose all your stuff twice, even.

And yeah, that Abby boss is amazing, the most disgusting creature in a game full of horrible things.

Spoiler warnings of course:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh5gzGs-63Y
Also: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/video-games/news/the-last-of-us-part-2-ellie-evolution/

Here's my #hottake that you all have been waiting for:

The ending was pretty bleak, maybe about as bleak as I expected, had shades of Children of Men ending (boat in fog with characters questionably surviving). I could see why some people were expecting a twist of them joining forces ("common enemies!") but that was already used once between Lev & Abby and might have been stale or less impactful if done again.

some bullets:

-way too much scavenging, would prefer loot drops after kills
-the infected basically being reduced to background scenery for long sections of the game was a letdown
+the hunting pistol completely overperformed my expectations (esp. after spec'ed out with scope et al), maybe the best weapon in the game?
-OTOH the silenced (!) SMG was such a letdown, good thing you barely have time to use it so your excitement upon finding it is tempered
+the "safecracking" hack that was leaked made crafting trees incredibly easier to obtain (just turn your volume up and listen for the telling "click")
+i liked the fact the game was so PC (strong LGBTQ and/or female characters, thrown in with hints of polyamory, + quite a few non-caucasian supporting roles)
-...but the gratuitous sex scene was just so OTT cringe and unnecessary
+the graphics were amazing, post apocalypse water-ravaged Seattle was incredible
+i thought the story was fine, some people (lacking empathy?) couldn't vibe with Abby's MO but I thought the psychological/moral struggles were presented and delivered convincingly.

I'm in the middle of Abby day 2 and the much needed LEVITY (do you see?) is refreshing and definitely echoes the odd couple dynamic from the first game.

https://youtu.be/6kkXif1_dm4

so in pt iii you're going to play as an infected right

nice

in part iii you play the cop who shot joel's daughter at the opening of part i, though you actually play his first days on the force. it is set in 2003 and there are no zombies.

in part iv you will play an ant infected with the cordyceps fungus in the real present day world. it plays out in real time with a deliberately oblique control scheme taking heavy influence from death stranding.

in part v you are a crafting bench.

in part vi you are a an environmental artist at naughty dog, crafting a series of tiny environemtal psychodramas about survivors at the end of things. you are forced into working a series of 14-hour shifts and 7-day weeks via less and less soft pressure; if the player stops playing, their real world credit rating will slowly decline. pressing L2 opens an inventory wheel in which you find a memo from management, telling you they anticipate your adjusting to "the naughty dog way of doing things", and a picture of your daughter. you do not see your daughter.

Ok so some initial gameplay thoughts.

Combat is fun and polished, with more depth than cover shooters, and more forgiveness than stealth shooters when you got spotted. For a long while this is what sustained me.

Rat King LOL OMG WTF. I knew that this was going to be something horrible, especially since its level is a very clear echo of the hotel basement he in Part 1, but the pure fear it inspires is on a different level, since you have actually have to engage with this big boy rather than make a mad dash for the exit. Is beating this thing what people feel when they beat a boss in From Soft games?

The Ellie boss fight otoh was quite a lot harder, and by how frustrated I got, she was the hardest boss of the game. I didn't upgrade Abby's listen mode much (mostly because you don't even have listen mode on Grounded in Part 1 and I have/had aspirations of beating Part 2 on the hardest difficulty), so as often as the Rat King ripped me apart, Ellie shivved me probably twice as many times.

I thought Santa Barbara was going to be a quick epilogue! So I kept powering through it because I thought the end was just around the corner.

Semi automatic guns are a tease! I never unlocked that ability for Abby's rifle because Rat King aside, when will you even have the ammo to unload on enemies, much less fight enemies that can soak up that kind of damage?

Oops, not initial obviously!

Two really great set pieces too: the on be where Jesse drives and you shoot infected and Wolves, and the one where you ride through the burning Seraphite village.

When I read criticisms that the end game is pointless, I thought they meant that it was nihilist and that Ellie was on an inevitable path of killing Abby (am end which I approached with dread), when those same criticisms were in fact voiced because they *wanted* that to happen.

check out this maniac

The Last of Us 2 photo mode tips & tricks thread:

Let's start with a simple portrait. This particular room/spot has a nice, soft, bloomy light. Finding good lights & shadows make about 95% of your shot. This thread can hopefully help you with the remaining 5%.

01/20 pic.twitter.com/FZwRW86yU8

— Petri Levälahti (@Berduu) July 5, 2020

that's awesome

Something that for me worked exceptionally was how the emotional/ethical peril is treated as equally as the physical peril. I was fighting against Ellie in the final showdown even as I played as her, and I was on the edge of my seat until she decided to let Abby live.

At the farmhouse when Ellie is preparing to go, and like, I love this game and want to keep playing it, on the other hand, Ellie wtf is wrong with you, hate you right now, don’t want to be you

Also: wow they did Yara dirty

Beat it.

It will be immense on “hard” when I come back to this in a year or two. (I think there are slightly too many materials available on normal mode.)

I imagine the final Santa Barbara hacienda shoot-out ought to be a bit better of a send-off on hard, too.

I feel bad about not using the flamethrower more.

When you come back to the aquarium as Abby and find the dead dog is one of the great “oh, fuck” moments in any videogame.

Incredible game.

I think there are slightly too many materials available on normal mode.

Yeah, I was actually kind of pissed that I was maxed out on resources and had to leave loot behind.

I'm kind of toying with the thought of replaying on Survivor, which is almost definitely overly ambitious.

Also OMG at the banner image here: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastOfUs2/

So what about the annoying things in this game?

- You get to use the flamethrower like twice
- You get to use the silenced submachine gun for the last scene only
- On 'normal' you never have to worry about health or supplies
- Big resource drops spoiling the tension of upcoming confrontations
- Proximity bombs never needed. In fact, you rarely need to do much more than switch between silenced weapons, long-range weapons and the shotgun. Maybe this is different on hard/survivor - you actually have to plan your attacks and how you're going to switch up the damage you deal?
- Easy finale in Santa Barbara
- THEY DID YARA DIRTY I mean honest to fuck. Yara is like the whole thing for Abby. Yara's what inspires her to go rogue. She risks her life to pay Yara back. Now I'm not saying Yara shouldn't have bitten it, fine, that's an artistic choice. But after it happens, not one scene of Lev grieving for her? For the sister who saved his life again and again? Not one scene where Abby remembers her? I know, they have to escape, but what about after that?

JFC: https://kotaku.com/new-the-last-of-us-part-ii-trophies-tease-grounded-mode-1844678713

Who are these people who think this game isn't hard enough?

Permadeath is an insane option

It’s not quite hard enough on “normal” thi though, as documented in this thread

I thought it was, but ok, for argument's sake, sure - there's already a million adjustable difficulty options to make the game that much harder

Yeah - for me the sweet spot was making resources a bit more scarce.

God knows how I'd ever beat the section where you're escaping from the house with Lev and Yara on the other side of the door if all the difficulties were ramped up including enemy damage etc

oh man, this game

just watched a playthrough. I could not play this game; too violent and scary to actually inhabit the controller & feel all those deaths, and I definitely tabbed through a lot of the puzzle / assault sequences. but being able to tab through -- well, I definitely get the crossover hype / interest in non-gamers, this is a form of narrative more effective than anything television is capable of right now. this game totally takes advantage of 70 years of art film vocabulary like Tarkovsky / Rivette / Akerman and flips it all back over into Romero mainstream narrative storytelling

still a lot to figure out, but yeah, cried twice

Did you play the first one Milton?

skimmed the first 35 minutes of a playthrough. yikes!

only three games I've actually played myself in the last 30 years are Katamari Damacy, Journey, Monument Valley. I don't like holding the controller for first person shooters, but certainly have seen friends playing things like Bioshock etc as the games slowly evolved into whatever this is

i totally bailed on my Grounded playthrough for LoU II. just too hard. i didn’t even make it to the theatre.

Give it another shot! If I can do it, you/anyone can do it.

And yeah, $10 is totally reasonable. I can't believe TLOU Part 1 is still going for $50+ *on sale*.

Naughty Dog officially pulled the plug on its long-gestating Last of Us online live-service multiplayer game. One one hand, good. On the other, what a waste of time. They've essentially released one game since 2017. Though I guess the same goes for Rockstar.

Yeah from what I hear they are working on a new IP and TLOU sequel. Perhaps they needed to reallocate the team or recycle the assets from the online game to save some time.

Probably spent a good number of cycles on the re-remaster of TLOU 1 and remaster of TLOU 2.

i know one of the multiplayer devs from another forum and he was so excited about it. it had a lot of co-op elements so you’re basically teaming up with players against the clickers etc. to hear him tell it the game was largely finished. i guess there’s an ongoing admin and tech overhead for multiplayer games that naughty dog didn’t want to commit to

essentially the demands of live multiplayer are such that naughty dog would have become a live online company and never make another single player game again

A studio known for its almost oppressively immersive narratives and impeccable set pieces might have benefitted from a 15-year old kid with the handle DiaperDoodie69 hopping around while decked out like Barney the dinosaur and screaming nonsense over a headset mic.

I imagine it's the lure of all that live service money; otherwise it probably would've just been a gradually updated multiplayer mode for TLOU2.
Also - maybe relevant - Sony's acquisition of Bungie was completed in early 2022. Two giant live service bets is probably too much.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/kaitlyn-dever-last-of-us-season-2-abby-1235782912/

TLOU II Remastered out on 1/19, btw

Dever is a great actor. It's too bad that there is no way to keep the plot secret for two years, gonna be impossible for newbies to avoid spoilers. Wonder how that may affect changes or additions they make to the story.

I guess she's got two years to get properly hench, especially since Bella's got a head start on her:

Bella Ramsey begins training for HBO 'The Last of Us' S2pic.twitter.com/zI5fycK3te

— ScreenTime (@screentime) January 8, 2024

Two more casting announcements for Jessie and Dina:

https://kotaku.com/the-last-of-us-hbo-max-dina-actor-isabela-merced-1851159653

Digital Foundry review of the PS4 to PS5 upgrade barely finds any differences from the way the current PS4 version plays on the PS5. Like, next to nothing, even as far as these subtle things sometimes go. I guess there is a touch extra content to justify the $10, which is not a big ask. Still hoping they take $20 off Last of Us Part 1.

Some of the reviews for the roguelike mode have been pretty high: https://www.polygon.com/24036476/the-last-of-us-part-2s-roguelike-mode

Good to hear, since it's likely all you're really getting for that $10. But I've seen it discussed in the context of the recent God of War roguelike DLC, which 1) reportedly contains new plot and 2) was free.

Ah I didn't realize they're offering an upgrade option -- I thought they were making people buy the new version by itself.

(As for the Ragnarok DLC, yes on both counts.)

The timing of this seems strange, doesn't it? You've got a hit TV show that just announced the cast of its in-progress second season, and *now* is when you drop the Part 2 remaster? It's all but asking people to catch up (and get spoiled) before S2 airs.

Nah, better than waiting even longer. I'm sure this delayed whatever the heck they're working on for the end of the PS5/beginning of PS6 era

I think it's probably the opposite, no? They wasted a bunch of time on the Last of Us multiplayer that got the plug pulled, and this remaster is a stopgap to make some money with a roguelite mode tossed in.

You're right about the abandoned MP, but it seemed inevitable there was going to be a "remaster" of Part II for PS5, or least of a new coat of paint (like the first one) so might they might as well just drop it

I did notice that they are selling this remaster for $10 less than Part 1. Granted, Part 1 was a ground-up remake, but it's nice they're not going strictly cash-grab. Or maybe they kinda are? I could have sworn I bought Last of Us 2 new a couple of years ago for less than $20, maybe ... $10?

the trailer for the remaster looks fucking incredible

Digital Foundry, a bunch of nerds, did a comparison of this and the PS4 version and iirc noticed next to no visual improvements, fwiw. But I think that's largely because this was an incredible looking/playing game from the start. From what I've read (I downloaded the upgrade but won't get to it for a long while, assuming I ever do, lol), the biggest/newest additions are slightly faster loading times, the commentary, (eventually, as DLC) a great looking documentary , the roguelite mode and cool haptics. Oh, and tons of new accessibility settings. Oh, and a couple of apparently fine but incomplete unreleased sections.

For $50 I would scoff but for $10, sure

It's a $10 upgrade if you already own it, but $50 if you are buying it for the first time, which I believe is a price *increase*, at least compared to what it's been sold for over the past few years, let alone secondary. That's kind of eh but to be expected, I suppose, because I really do think Naughty Dog needs to fill the coffers. They are likely years away from any new game.

I loved TLOU2 (top 5 all-time for me) but the roguelike mode doesn't sound like my kind of thing, and I watched YouTube videos of the unreleased sections (the commentary from the game makers is pretty interesting! They put a LOT more thought into seemingly small details than you might think.), so I'll pass on the $10 upgrade (which, imo, seems like a totally reasonable price). And people have noted that you can save a few bucks by getting a PS4 disc then getting the $10 upgrade, instead of paying the full PS5 retail price. A year ago when I bought the PS4 disc, new copies were plentiful at $20.

Also, re: timing of this upgrade release, maybe they are cleaning their plate so that they have full resources available to work on Part 3 (I hope)?

They've been coy about it. I think Druckmann said he had a loose idea for a part 3 but that's it. Meanwhile there have been rumors about a new IP - fantasy of sci-fi? - which I assume is in progress. And maybe I heard they were working on more than one thing? I might be thinking of From. But given Naughty Dog shed a ton of staff when the Last of Us multiplayer got cancelled I doubt they're anywhere near ready to dive right back into that world. This remaster seems to me a pretty clear stopgap.

From what I've heard they're working on two new IPs, one fairly active across multiple teams, the other pretty early going - still being conceptualized, and neither are related to The Last of Us. Would be surprised if either of these see the light of day before 2025.

I'm not even sure TLOU3 will make it to this generation, though you'd expect it to be an end-of-system PS5 title, I think the pandemic probably pushed all their giant multi-year plans up

New doc dropped:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC3C7GMMfDU

Apparently there is a passing reference to a potential third installment.

Just watched this, it's pretty solid. The connection the cast and creators feel to each other and to the characters (especially Troy Baker and Ashley Johnson) is palpable. The doc apparently stopped filming when covid hit, so the last bit was filmed in 2023, and there's some remarkable stuff where they recount the impact of all the shit surrounding the game, from the infamous leaks to the release, resulting in everything from death threats on down (people even threatened the family of the person that plays Abby). Druckmann notes the irony that the Dutch person that leaked tons of hacked footage was ultimately just a fan, the proverbial young guy living with his parents, who thought leaking the gameplay would force Naughty Dog's hand into finally releasing the game, which had been indefinitely postponed by the pandemic. Druckmann and others interviewed were clearly brought down to their knees with disappointment, but they all seem to be in a much better place now.

On a slightly different note, I admit I am a total pushpver, but it's been a while since I've seen some of the LOU2 clips included in the doc, and boy, did they immediately dredge up dark things I felt while playing the game.

people even threatened the family of the person that plays Abby

More to the point, they threatened her 2-year-old child.

Head and sub-head are great: https://kotaku.com/last-us-tv-show-season-2-pedro-pascal-joel-hbo-1851366131

lol!

lol

Walkback: https://www.ign.com/articles/pedro-pascal-isnt-done-filming-the-last-of-us-season-2-after-all-hbo-says

Gotta do some guitar playing.

We're getting Seattle in Season 2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOsAJ7oe2QE

posted this in the wrong thread earlier:

I've resumed my Grounded playthrough of LoU II .. And this really is the way to play. Yes it's very hard. You have no HUD, you have no ability to "see" sounds, everybody can see MUCH further (basically if you can see them they can see you), everybody causes more damage, they go on alert much more quickly, you have to be quiet as a fuckin mouse if you plan on sneaking up on anyone, particularly clickers. (I actually thought they had removed the ability to stealth kill clickers until I finally got one. The technique is to move about 1mm per hr and then right at the end push the fuck up and get them.)

The upshot is that you essentially have to learn how to beat each level perfectly. Run and gun is impossible. There are only a very small handful of moments where you're forced to break cover. So each level becomes more contemplative - like a puzzle - though still quite tense of course because grisly death awaits any misstep. What's kind of mindblowing is that there are entire levels where you can essentially just skirt everything if you pick out the right route. But in order to get there you need to get to know every nook and cranny like the back of your hand. It is the way to really appreciate every little detail that they put into the game - details you would normally be blazing past.

Another consequence is that the game is verrrrrry long I've been playing for hours and hours and still haven't made the switch into Abby, still haven't met the cultists, Lev, etc.

update: i have met the cultists. they are just as annoying as i remember

still not playing as abby yet but i have got to the climactic moment where you confront nora in the hospital and you have her completely at your mercy and the game makes you push square to beat the shit out of her and i did not like that

sneaking through entire neighbourhoods of incredibly watchful wolves is extremely difficult but also extremely fucking satisfying once you figure out the perfect path, which dudes you need pop, which dudes you can leave alone

playing as abby now, and i really like it. something kind of invigorating about being part of a more martial outfit.

before we leave the ellie world behind though, one note: the bloater in the video arcade almost ended me. thank god i had some explosives saved up.

something i didn’t notice the first time around: the WLF people you deal with are like a latino guy, a black torturer, and a potentially trans woman (who you play as). FEDRA is like two good ol boy folk music dudes who live in a fake wild west setting. i liked owen’s “are we the baddies?” convo at the aquarium flashback but i’m struggling to think of anybody from FEDRA had that level of self awareness.

<3 emo-owen at the aquarium.

Abby isn't trans?

the game doesn’t say one way or another.

anyway this time playing through it definitely felt like woke militia vs rednecks lol

and ellie.. maybe this is unkind or just indicative of where i am in the story (eg lowest possible sympathy for her) but she feels like the type of character who would say something like “look, i just think all lives matter”

Ellie is more of a hyper-driven "one life matters" sort of person.

lol well that was definitely joel’s mindset

This is what I posted on the TV show thread:

I have no idea how they are going to misdirect people from huge spoilers. Which is to say, a lot of the game hinges on some big surprises - the millions that have played the game know that, the showrunners and writers know that - so I wonder how or if that will change how they tell this story. Something else I'm curious about, a lot of the power of the second game (which has stuck with me as an uneasy, queasy masterpiece) really hinges on the player *playing* it, even more so than the first game, and I'm curious how the show will (or can) pull off the same dynamic, gut-churning shifts. It's telling that they've said the second game will be split into *at least* two seasons, as there sure is a lot to unpack.

Given people on this thread *have* played the second game, what do you think? How do you hide the big early game shock? Get it over with quickly, in the first episode? Mess with the timeline and stick it at the end, to keep viewers off guard? How do you depict those key scenes in the game where you change perspective and are literally forced to play (and do terrible things) to/as someone you have been (insidiously) trained to love/hate?

I don't know how you avoid that early game spoiler in the show? The motivations for Ellie are driven by it. Maybe perhaps start with Abby first? Show her motivations initially? The obvious TV tropey way of going about it would be cutting back and forth (a la Lord of the Rings movie The Two Towers vs the book), but that would indeed change the vibe up significantly and lessen the impact of certain scenes, like when Ellie kills the dog

Abby isn't trans?

Also from what I understand Abby is NOT trans. Lev is. The idiot sexist gamergate cohort apparently thought Abby was the trans one because she's "muscular". So dumb.

I love (don't love) how the toxic discourse fixates not only on Abby being trans-coded masculine or whatever (which is totally dumb) but also on how hard it would be to maintain her exercise routine to stay that ripped (also dumb, but I get it; it's telling that her depiction in this show is apparently a lot more conventional).

I honestly don't know how they're going to handle this game in the show, especially given it's only 7 episodes (of varying lengths). Given their predilection for detours and flashbacks, not sure where they would even stick the shock, or switch in perspective. I think the most logical approach would be like the game. Start with Joel, switch to Abby, then end with the shock ... where? Episode one? Seems ... too soon, too shocking, lol. Episode two? Seems like it would be hard to pull off rhythmically. Maybe best to immediately start with Abby (she seems to be foregrounded in the teasers) in the first episode, then switch back to Ellie? Do they reaaaaaaallllly stretch it out and end the season with the shock? I dunno!

Somehow doubt certain game moments, like the dog, will make it to screen. Too subtle, too specific? But others will, like the Abby/Ellie fight, albeit minus the complicit, queasy participation of the player. No idea!