See you on the beach - the thread for Hideo Kojima's DEATH STRANDING

*rocks BB way too quickly*

Death Stranding (2019) @giantbomb @jeffgerstmann @taswell #DeathStranding pic.twitter.com/CIsjHTgE47

— Jacob! (@JacobGehnert) November 9, 2019

18 hours deep, still in chapter 3. happily building roads.

the design and aesthetic are top notch. i love that HD means you can really read all the dumbass slogans kojima slathers over every surface. even the corny music works, when it swells up and the camera pulls back crossing a giant open space. the upward-floating debris, the weird tendrils hanging from the hovering overpasses, the porter bots wearing little shoes and singing to themselves.

trudging slowly over wet sand with an enormous stack of high-performance underwear crates is fun. putting ladders in stupid places is fun. getting and sending thousands of likes is fun. rocking the baby is reasonably fun (and i spend most of my day entertaining an irl toddler). feel like most reviews don't mention that the game is actually fun and satisfying to play. when you do something stupid and drop every fucking thing you are carrying (a rare occurrence unless you are not paying any attention), mashing triangle to pick stuff up is hilarious. it's got a similar feel to snake picking stuff up in mgs, it's a really fast animation and when you mash it norman reedus goes fucking nuts throwing shit back on his cargo stack. feels good.

love the bananas story and setting.

the walking simulator is my favorite game genre and this sounds fucking awful to me

it's too bad everyone established "walking sim" as a flippant term for narrative adventure games because now that there's an actual walking sim we don't have a term for it that won't cause confusion

how does the online element of this game work? online players can affect the landscape based on things they leave out for each other... but does that mean that technically you might be able to bump into each other and if enough people play it there could be thousnads of Reedus's walking around? I take it that's not the case?

i've already floated 'stumbling simulator' tbf xp

“Drudgery sim”?

xp it's asynchronous, it'll load some amount of other players' constructions into your game, prioritizing people on your PS friends list, but you're not actually in the same instance of the game world as anyone else

'Slow Gaming'

other people can contribute to your constructions and vice versa so the resource accumulation/distribution is less onerous. i like upgrading ppl's stuff when i don't feel like hauling a zillion kg of metal back to whatever knot city.

i think the cutscenes' emphasis on connections and logistics are telling but what really gives it away is calling the bandits MULEs. i feel like kojima is in direct dialogue with M.U.L.E., advancing a vision of radical generosity over that game's free market ruthlessness.

so let's go with "post apocalyptic socialism sim"

aw shit, i think by mentioning MULE you just made me buy this goddammit

it rules forks just do it

damn u

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Box4XDvBSgE

I am kind of disappointed because it seemed like I was going to finally meet Mads' character and you.. kind of encounter him? not really. I'm sure it'll come later.

This is the first game where I've gotten something that seems like it could cause lethal damage after having some random incapacitating items and I feel really hesitant about the idea of shooting people. Those MULE guys seem like assholes, but do I really need to injure them that badly?

“Drudgery sim”?

― Fuck the NRA (ulysses)

that's sort of what i like about gaming, ultimately at a certain point they all boil down to tedious drudgery. commit this otherwise useless sequence of button presses to muscle memory. this vision of gaming has been around for at least as long as pac-man - i remember as a child reading books on how to get good at pac-man and it was all rote execution of patterns. we pay money for the chance to do routine things.

This thread is the manifestation of the game I was most looking forward to, please update with tales of dystopian banality

the irony of the fact that this will take until Wednesday to deliver is not lost on me

I think the banality aspect has been oversold, to an extent. There have been a number of games with interesting landscapes, but I can't remember many details of them past rote pathfinding. Might have to jump over some rocks, may encounter an impassable area. In this game, not only is the world very beautiful, but the obstacles seem meaningful. Do I set up a ladder to make it past, or do I go around and use my tools later?

When I connect a new area, will I discover that the other way up a hill that seemed insurmountable on the map already has a series of ropes and ladders placed by someone online, making my journey that much shorter? There's a joy of discovery to it

yeah, the game isn't boring at all. in its insistence on paying attention to your surroundings and to your movements it's not at all unlike metal gear solid, just without the trappings of Tactical Espionage Action. that absence is the engine of Gamer Backlash, plus i think there's a (faulty) collective assumption of rebuke in that absence.

So it's actually fun?

what if I told you in 2019, that a video game would not only get the idea of "likes" from strangers giving that kick of dopamine, but did so in a way that made it a constructive gameplay dynamic?

there are some abuses of it, like spamming of a bunch of signs that a player has to pass through near home locations, but overall it's a well-balanced mechanic

Still looking for clarity: if you play offline, that whole aspect of the game is nullified?

You get "likes" from doing certain tasks in the game, but the abundance of physical objects in the landscape won't appear

so there's no benefit to the likes if you're offline?

my understanding is that the online components don't require playstation plus

(if that is the issue)

I'm perversely avoiding any actual reviews or gameplay videos atm because every anecdotal comment somehow confuses me further re: what this game even is/is about. Which I find fascinating.

it's possible some of the structures are put up by the NPC porters (your job) in the game, as a few appear, but I don't know that anyone reviewing or even playing the game has done it completely offline

the "likes" are what levels up one of your five metrics

i've gotten likes from NPC porters for shit i've left lying around

OL, there's a backstory that at the core establishes this post-apocalyptic world, what the precursor event was, and some of the basics that differentiate this world from our own. The story starts to answer a lot of the unknowns, but a lot of it is "we discovered this technology, it did amazing things, and something horrible happened" with some additional elements related to the fact knowledge was lost in the chaos and your NPC peers are discovering the history as you are.

fwiw the thread (strand?) title here is a reference that becomes clear not far into the game

finally a game that can breach the high watermark set by bioshock for creepiest cosplay

oh man there's gonna be a thousand norman reeduses at comicon
fat reedus, skinny reedus, buff reedus, black reedus, ups delivery uniform reedus, amazon delivery uniform reedus, DHL delivery uniform reedus, asia reedus, sexy reedus, mecha reedus, dog reedus...

I'm wondering what point in the game unlocks the Chvrches song!

The non-score musical parts so far are ok, but I feel like Kojima has found a band that's halfway between Imagine Dragons and Coldplay

I guess I should say vibe-wise, since there's not just one band

This is actually pretty fun and addictive. I don’t think the gameplay footage really sells it. There is a kind of tactile satisfaction in hauling yourself over the landscape that doesn’t really translate well to someone not holding the controller.

Not without its problems. The MULE and BT enemy encounters seem really simplistic and half-baked. I’m down with de-emphasizing combat, but I wish those systems were a little more sophisticated.

There are certain elements that seem to be deliberately irritating. Trudging through BT morass, mashing buttons as monster arms tear cargo off your back while a baby is crying in your face via the controller speaker is a good example. But that stuff is relatively minor/brief.

I've only had one BT battle encounter so far! And it was right at the beginning, before I really got the dynamic. If you're cautious and well-stocked with grenades or some of the later weapons, you can knock those suckers back to the afterlife.

I kind of want to trigger a battle because apparently if you take out one of the larger enemies that appear, they drop a ton of crystals

gameplay in the looks a bit like a walking version of spintires, would that be accurate?

THE HEART-SHAPED BUBBLE

the president's henchman is 'die hardman' who wears a leather suit, cravat and METAL SKULL MASK 24/7 i can't

i ended up just running the fuck away from the annoying BTs at the incinerator, suddenly found myself at the edge of a cliff, and somebody named igor had left.... a rope for me! at the edge! i liked the shit out of it and rappelled away, thanks igor.

thomas i think spintires is more frustrating and lets you screw yourself over. here a modicum of attention will keep you upright.

love this game. just got the "speed skeleton" and i am booking it across this rock strewn ghost-scape. also i am getting the rhythm of infiltrating BT areas so it's less of a drag. stupid MULEs not so much. i'll figure them out.

I’ve gotten pretty good at shooting MULES in the face with my bolo gun. Drops em.

Game really starts opening up in chapter 3. Trucking my stolen MULE mobile down the highway, wind in my hair. Feels good.

just got the BRIDGES truck, really adds to the UPS vibe. loading that motherfucker up with claimed metals and ceramics all the way to south knot city.

Tracer, Igor was the guy in the truck with the corpse at the very beginning!

Ahhhh!

I've been trying to put a certain feeling into words and I think this is how one says this these days.. This game has big Tomb Raider 1 energy

Care to spoiler text what you’re referring to specifically? Don’t recall anything eyebrow raising, but I did mainline the hell out of this for stretches so things might’ve gotten lost in the tunnel vision.

Oh just all the stuff at the beginning with 'Fragile' being the surrogate mom waiting at home with your baby for you to come home from being a badass

Started playing today. I'm about four hours in and got up to the first boss.

This really is fantastic so far. The graphics are jaw dropping, and I like how they dispense with the arthouse ponderousness of the first game, instead putting you right in the action seat.

When it started trying to get me to do training levels I groaned, but they ended up being fun and not too long.

The menu system remains fiddly as ever. But ultimately this is like the first one byt just vastly improved (which is saying a lot because I wuvved the first one)

I love training levels. With most games I'd be content to just play the training levels. I like the security blanket feel of them. Real world too scary.

For me, it's remembering the start of Cyberpunk 2077 when it came out. After a very short intro sequence where you're introduced to this marvellous open world, they play a montage sequence, and then you're in a bland room shooting target dummies.
Armored Core VI was also a bit like that - "no you can't play the game until you've eaten your greens".
Control DLC also introduced these "fun" side-games where you sidle up to an arcade machine and play a game that is... almost exactly the same as the main game(?!?) I couldn't see the point, considering I was already 85% through the thing as a whole.

But no, I really don't mind these ones. They're nice and short and they're kidn of fun

Also, I don't know if it's because it's an association with lockdown, or it's some residual 25-year-old back-to-school anxiety, but I had such a strange feeling last night while playing this one. A bout of the Sunday scaries?

It is pretty nightmarish

But it's also very chilled. I haven't really encountered much scary stuff yet. That said, the WEATHER in this game is so incredibly realistic. Rain gives me anxiety IRL, so seeing it pooling around on the camera lense really gives me a chill.

I also LOVE the haptics on this. Some of the best I've experienced using the DualSense so far. When you're creeping around an enemy camp you can really feel the way your boot hits the earth; it's incredible

Yes!

Something I don't miss: Pretty much having to have my index fingers on the shoulder buttons for 75% of the game

Really weird coming to this after having very recently plaayed Breath Of The Wild. For all its idiosyncrasies and original approach to gameplay, I hadn't realised how much DNA it takes from the basics of Zelda, where you've really got to think about the terrain and whether to go over or around something.

Really enjoy the missions - feels like they've taken the best of MGS in terms of setting up a scenario and letting you figure out the best way of approaching it. The stealth and bandit encounters in DS1 were pretty perfunctory

All the tech in DS1, from the cars to the guns, had a 3D-printed vibe to them. If I shot someone it felt like I was playing Laserquest. The vehicles weren't fit for purpose either. And don't get me started on the Odradek and its many many UI frustrations (which haven't improved a great deal in 2). At the time, I assumed that this was all a deliberate reflection of the setting: It's the post-apolcalypse; we're doing this using the little tech we have at our disposal. That said, it's so much more satisfying to be able to shoot a gun like it's a real gun.

Managed to get to Australia last night after a dramatic (and incredibly fun) boss fight, followed by a surprisingly emosh cut-scene rush.

Maybe it's because I'm already au fait with the original game so not having too many teething problems - but for all its rep as a slow-moving game, this seems to whip along at a fair pace.
The criticisms about Kojima having to explain ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING remain. I try to see these scientifically detailed exposition dumps as an endearing feature.
That said, I wonder how the game would play out if they'd gone for a more ambiguous environmental style of storytelling a la FromSoft?
The lore here is so arcane, Kojima clearly believes it needs a full explanation. That said a little "it is what it is"-style dream logic wouldn't have been such a bad thing in a game like this.

Funny, I like to think of Kojima and Hidetaka Miyazaki as a bit of a yin/yang in the way they approach their stories. Kojima's worlds are outlandish and preposterous, but everything is delivered with the utmost seriousness. Everyone is po-faced and sincere. He often reminds us to "never forget our playful side" and yet irony, wit, indeed anything that isn't to do with the matter at hand simply don't exist in these worlds. Despite the cinematic layout, we learn basically nothing about our characters' internal lives. So when we see Sam looking after Lou it's an all-too-short insight. On the other hand, when Deadman dies, while it was presented as terribly emotional, it was hard to really care all that much since that character was only ever a cipher to explain new tech.

It's kind of the flip with Miyazaki. On the surface these are dark worlds, lacking in light and light relief alike. But when you dig deep and pull back the layers, there is some very funny stuff going on. You play these games enough, get used to the gothic monotones and you realise there's a lot of heart. You even start feeling for the various chracters despite them being presented as inanimate shop dummmies. I mean, what can you tell me about Die Hard Man who has a grillion lines of dialogue in DeSt1 compared to what you can tell me about White Mask Varre from Elden Ring, who you meet and have an extremely short conversation with around five times in the whole game?

That sounds like I'm being derogatory towards Kojima - not at all. It's just two sides of a coin and two different ways to approach it. DeSt's ludicrousness benefits from having the joke told straight, whereas EldenSouls games need a little sneaky black humour to stop them being utterly miserable.

Kojima's approach to the player-controlled character is pretty subdued intentionally, imo. Sam's story is spelled out through plot reveals and lore drops, but he remains kind of a cut-out for the player to react emotionally. The game hints at what to feel, but doesn't tell you how to feel.

hmm, maybe. it does make for an emotionally neutral experience sometimes, even if it is a game steeped in melodrama. sam is po-faced by design (as you say), despite being surrounded by stunning landscapes and swirling post-Radiohead piano ballads for days. it's an interesting juxtaposition, even if there is a bit of me that wishes we could perhaps get to care about the NPCs a little better.

Early on, an NPC called Alex Weatherstone turns up and he's all like "Yo, remember me from the first game?" and I'm like "Well I remember your face". Other than accepting parcels and telling me I'd done a bang-up job, he left no impression on me. As for more prominent supporting cast members, I still don't know a huge amount about anyone.

It's that whole Queen Amidala vs Princess Leia question: How would I describe Fragile as a character? Perhaps that's not what a game like this is setting out to do. But for all of Kojima's love of cinema and human connection, he quite wilfully seems to be avoid character development. Even Sam, after you've taken him on this whole journey in the first game where he met so many "friends along the way", turns round and says he just wants to be left alone and retreats to a bunker. Yeah, yeah, I guess that's the POINT - he has Assmyfozziebearphobia or whatever it's called and the world is a big bad place...

Alex Weatherstone's likeness is based on Errolson Hugh, the acronym clothing guy. The in-game jacket and pants are his company's designs.

Most of the people you deliver to are just kind of there (or not there, considering they don't come out to see you) and I'd agree the dialogue is pretty perfunctory. The most interesting thing about them is the cameo appearances, but that's irrelevant to gameplay. To be fair, the interactions are about as personal as I get with my own mail carrier

UPDATE: Despite telling myself I would just play the story through without getting too soundtracked, I found myself getting seriously time-sunk by side orders last night. It reminded me that one of the best things about the original game wasn't the story or the setting, it was the satisfaction of rebuilding and managing the world's delivery eco-system. Back then, once the main game had been completed, I came back and attempted the platinum - and that's when the real game began. It changed from an action adventure game into a city-building strategy. And I would get a huge thrill from shaving miulliseconds off each order by placing my ziplines juuuuust right

Yeah my favourite part of the first game was getting the materials to build roads, building them, and then experiencing how the world changed as a result of that, how it opened up new areas and made other missions possible. Same landscape/map, but different ways of getting around made it an entirely new experience. There was this DEEP satisfaction in finally joining up two bits of roadway.

xp soundtracked = sidetracked, obvs lol

This is something BIG that doesn't get discussed about games a lot but I bet good developers put a lot of time and thought into: Those little satisfying dopamine-boosters that keep you striving. Like, who doesn't get a special thrill when you enter a new area in a Souls game and the location card pops up with that gong sound?

But yeah, watching Sam struggle up to an auto paver, pull out a canister, pump it full of chiralium, then sit back as it lays a shiny new road - it's wonderful

It's absolutely worth doing, at the least, specific side quests and deliveries in order to get upgrades. If you get something useful from one place, by all means do a few more deliveries to get an upgrade.

I didn't get deep enough into the director's cut of the first game to get the fully upgraded stabilizer but it's insane in this game, and probably intentional that it's harder to get until the endgame. You'll believe... that a porter can fly

Update: Okay fuck the main story, I spent an entire hungover Sunday acquiring materials to build roads. Just let me build roads. I don't care

Update: Okay fuck the main story, I spent an entire hungover Sunday acquiring materials to build roads. Just let me build roads. I don't care

Oops

...but also i fear I may be making the game a bit easy for myself because I've managed to pretty much dodge most of the obstacles they're handing out to me when I do missions.
Even if my road hasn't taken me where I need to go, I'm going down the least resistant paths (which is kind if what you're meant to do), except to the extent I'm only in danger during obligatory battles.

you can always bump the difficulty up a notch if you feel like it. there are a couple things toward the end that are challenging re: deliveries but if you play while leveling up a bit, it’s not meant to be a challenging game imo

aye, but it's more the thought that by laying roads and carefully choosing my routes, I can pretty much complete a mission without even going into the danger zones; which is fine of course - why would I walk into an area thick with BTs or brigands if I can just go-around it.

I'm just conscious that the game is kind of going "This is going to be a very dangerous mission; you'll need a tar gun and a blood boomerang and a bunch of floating carriers. Oh, and you'll want to complete the training level on how to deal with this new breed of extra-deadly enemy..." but instead of all that I just drive it all there smoothly in my van in about 5 minutes on my nicely-laid road.

I mean, it's one way to play the game - a nice, relaxing way. But I also wonder if I'm doing it too correctly and missing out on some of the danger!

Things I miss from the old game, part 1 in a possible series:

- Little Easter eggs in the sleeping quarters. I haven't encountered any yet, but these were so fun. From Sam covering up his genitals if you focus the camera on his balls, to BB transforming into Deadman on rare occasion when you hallucinate. Scared the shit out of me when the hands come out and grab Sam's feet from under the bed. There used to be more to do when you rested. Maybe there'll be a return to these later in the game

- Ziplines. I'm only on Act 5, so maybe they'll reintroduce ziplines later, but I worry that the monorail has replaced them. The monorail is fine, but it's a fixed line and not that exciting to ride on. Plus one of the key elements in DeSt1 was finding the optimum placement of ziplines so you could whizz around the map at great speeds

ziplines are still a thing, they just come into play a little later. practically necessary for traversing the snowy, mountainous regions. you can bend the lines around obstacles now, which some people think makes it too easy but i was grateful for it tbh.

oh sweet!

there's some fun synergy: the monorail building stations have a zipline connection on them. so you can either zipline under the monorail, or you can connect other ziplines to it

oh maaaaannnn....

honestly, i'm as happy as a rat in a binbag just building my little porter eco-system. the missions in this game are great - a significant improvement on the first game. but still, when i got warped to a mini shooter level last night, i was like "can't you see I'm BUSY!?!"

🤝

God, the combat in this game is so much more fun than the first one. Unless I missed it though, I wish their were a better way to pop out from behind walls than just walking out and getting hit by ammo

Lol yes it's like they just decided cover mechanic? We don't need no steenkin cover mechanic

I'd track down the Pizza Chef if your melee and dodging skills need a boost. Get him some ingredients.

for a game that's all about prepping for stuff, it doesn't give you much of a heads-up when you're aboout to go into an intense battle sequence that you can't abort, though. I had to load a previous save so I could stock up on blood bags and weapons before Act 5 as I went in there with, like, a bunch of ceramics and a bola gun. I guess I could have plate-smashed those dudes to death, I dunno

You can do some stealth takedowns on those guys in the first few encounters if you run away and they split up. Not the leader, though.

I managed to do a takedown of the leader by throwing a smoke grenade. it was a fun level - scary though!

It would be great if I could access my own playlists instead of being subjected to Kojima's patchy and inconsistent mixtape while out doing adventures. I'm thinking of turning off the music and just having Spotify in the background, especially when I'm just building roads and doing side missions. His tastes are altogether a bit wimpy and tasteful for me - especially that Low Roar band, who are Radiohead for people who don't like any loud noises. But I must say the Caroline Polachek track is IMMENSE on this. I like 'Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head' well enough, but I never need to hear it again now.

lol otm

especially after the scene where Rainy is singing it to Tomorrow (Tomorrow, I mean...) there's something low-key highly icky about the way women are mostly portrayed in this game, which I'm not sure is entirely deliberate but grosses me out nevertheless, and the infantilisation of Tomorrow by the equally cutesy-wootsey Rainy doesn't help.

Okay WTF LOL I foudn the best Easter Egg:

There's a song that Dollman says he really loves and wants to hear again. The track is called Horizon Dreamer by Daichi Mura.

When you're in the private room of the DHV Magellan, select the song in your music player and play it

Then speak to Dollman, and the best thing happens.

I definitely LOLed and WTFed at that bit too. I have to say, I really expected Dollman to be an irritating addition to the game, but I'll be darned if he isn't quite an endearing little fellow.

"SAM!"

wowzers!

Another great Easter Egg is to play this on your birthday. It's a little tricky to pull off but there's an extended birthday sequence that is well worth your time.

Oh and speaking of which, a friend got me the Art Of Death Stranding coffee table book. Fantastic if you want to see lots of drawings of boiler suits and other gear