C'est la dernière fantaisie - talkin bout Clair Obscure Expedition 33

Excuse the cliche "it's Final Fantasy but French" title, and possibly inaccurate translation...

I'm one of the apparently over a million people who picked this up on launch weekend and I'm having so much fun with it I'm about 10 hours in already. I haven't played a final fantasy in a very long time (VIII was probably the last one), and I bounced off the few Souls-like games I tried, which are two of the comparisons that keep coming up with Expedition 33. Anyone else picked it up?

this unfortunately came out around the same time as a bunch of other stuff i want to play but i'm interested in it. hearing a lot of comparisons to Shadow Hearts and Lost Odyssey which are not the usual touchstones for western-made JRPGs, very refreshing

Was aware of it from previews, but somewhat taken aback by how massive its release was

Also very logjammed with stuff rn but will be keeping an eye out

I tried with Lost Odyssey back in the day but did not care for it

I feel like it came from nowhere for me. I saw a post on BlueSky from someone that played a preview, thought it looked neat so checked it out and saw it was releasing the next day. I think I might just be terrible at following games news, as I hadn't heard anything of Blue Prince until it blew up too.

So far the main thing I have mixed feelings about is the quick time events in Expedition. They're definitely way more forgiving than, say, Mario & Luigi Partners in Time etc, and it's really satisfying when you smash a run of dodge/dodge/counter against an enemy's big attack, but they're still QTEs and therefore bogus.

Hope they're all getting fat bonuses with how big huge its release has been.

I heard that the parry window is extremely small and tight, which gives me pause because I don't like those names. It's it possible to middle through without having Sekiro grade reflexes?

I do find myself often opting to dodge rather than risk a parry as it's a bigger window on dodge (and when defending a multi-attack it's really just countering the last hit that matters). But I've not felt cheated, and I'm landing a satisfying amount of counters so far and my reflexes are more xcom than sekiro.

Digging a lot of the vibes and look of her game. The timing aspect does not exactly encourage the playing of the game in an altered state

Ah I was just about to start a thread on this one. Started it yesterday while suffering from a pretty bad hangover. Got jsut past the intro section in the harbour and I can see myself REALLY enjoying this game.

I call it FINAL FRANCE-TASY!

I spent a good while fighting Maelle in the harbour - it wasn't easy. I wanted to nail dodging before I progressed. I still don't know the timing to get upgrade a regular attack so it deals extra damage. It is VERY twitchy and timing has to be on point within a microsecond sometimes.

My question is: Should i have audio set to English or French? I went with the latter to start, but later found out that they got some pretty big English-speaking names in the cast.

haha, Now I'm actually reading the thread and the title, I see the Final France-tasy joke's been done

I only got into the main meat of the game late last night, but I'm loving what's happening so far. Hoping I can get used to the timing windows, or at least that they'll be a bit more forgiving than Maelle, who fights HARD for a tutorial enemy

"Final France-tasy" is a better constructed joke than my lazy google translate!

I'm using the English audio - it defaulted to that, and I spotted Andy Serkis in the cast, so figured it's a pretty high-effort translation if the 'official' audio is French.

I keep forgetting to go in and check if I've "learned" my current pictos, and assign them to my team, etc. It's a lot easier to keep track of all my stuff than all the materia stuff in FF where I've always thought I'm just not doing it right. Though I also have the same worries about what skills I'm learning - I always get the niggling/distracting doubt I'm not on an optimal build on RPGs. It doesn't seem to matter too much, so far though, other than the occasional battle where I get one-shotted by an OP enemy.

I did wonder if the French audio was the official one - I know it's a French studio, but it might not necessarily have been written in French first. I like to play French studio games in French sometimes as I used to have quite good French skills but have lapsed in recent times.

Ah I've only just got to the bit where you're starting to get Pictos. It's the kind of game where a lot of the story and systems get alluded to a short while before they're explained or experienced. It took me a while to figure out the various menus. Do different outfits actually affect the game, or are they just for drip?

I've heard this is great, like, nothing but superlatives, but it's turn based?

it's hybrid. command-based with parrying/dodging

Yes, turn-based with quicktime events. On one hand that could feel like a concession (is this a strategy or an action fighter?) but the QTE is challenging enough to keep the fights exciting and not just repetitious menu crawling. I think it's really well done, and if you're into games like Sekiro, Khazan or even the Souls games, you'll enjoy the twitch-perfect timing required to pull off a parry or dodge.

I recorded myself playing the first hour or so, although it's mostly just the little intro area and me doing bad pepe le pew impressions - doesn't tell you a lot about the gameplay https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1jWDQ5wdFc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhpIToaSaSg

oops, formatting. I just wanted those as links

if you want a look at combat (and I was bad at it), the last 30 minutes of the second video has me battling the kid sister tutorial

last 10-20 minutes i should say

I love your videos and commentary.

haha I'm mostly just doing it for the craic when I'm feeling lonely, usually a bit tired and hungover and just mumbling bullshit, but thank you

I've been really pleasantly surprised by this. I expected an experience similar to what I had with Avowed earlier this year: something enjoyable-enough that I'd play on Game Pass for a while, drop, and move on to the next thing. But man, what a game! This really captures the Mistwalker/Sakaguchi-led FF vibe like nothing else, but it also really feels like its own thing, and like it's confident in its own choices. And this game makes choices, aesthetically and mechanically. I thought I'd be put off by the most notable of these, namely the timing elements of combat and the overwhelming Frenchness of it all. Instead, I'm charmed and delighted, and eagerly looking forward to playing more.

I will say that the menus are a nightmare though.

Okay I've played a few hours of this and I'm on to the second main area and it's just a delight. If I had to nitpick, it's that I often get a bit disoriented and lose my way, sometimes accidentally backtracking through a level when I thought I was headed forward. But it doesn't really matter

This looks interesting, but I sent this grumpy text to a friend who sent me the trailer:

I hate how parrying has become synonymous with Sekiro now, like it invented the mechanic instead of just (as usual) using it really well in an integrated system. Like, the whole point was how it changed the rhythm & positioning of Souls combat with the posture system, instead of the old dodge/block & counterattack. Sorry, but adding quick-time event button presses into turn-based combat is taking Sekiro's name in vain!

there's never a "first time" for anything, sure. still, to be fair i can see why people make the comparison seeing as Sekiro is possibly the most well known recent game to incorporate it. if you've not played it yet Jorden, it's definitely giving me Sekiro vibes, play-wise, even as QTEs

played the first 2-3 hours and enjoying it, but maybe slightly less than I thought I would? love the worldbuilding & soundtrack but wasn't expecting the combat to lean in so much on the QTEs, which I'm not the greatest fan of. also getting slightly disoriented at times even tho the areas are relatively small! still a fun time.

i'm not the twitchiest of players, but I'm starting to get the hang of it and pulling off a few perfect dodges, the odd parry, and really enjoying how deep the various buffs and effect (Pictos/Lumina) go, and how you can cleverly stack things in your favour. It's complicated to a degree but the game does a great job of introducing things without tediously spoonfeeding you the info.

yeah the disorientation is the only thing that's a bit of a faff. It's easy to come out of a battle or an upgrade menu and forget which direction you were going (pressing triangle on PS does bring up a compass, I found out). And once you rest at a "bonfire", the enemies reset, which can make it very confusing as to where you've been and where you're going, seeing as while the landscapes are very pretty, they're also incredibly maze-like and kind of uniform.

Gah, I wish I didn't know better and thought this was for me, but parrying, turn based ... just not my jam. People went nuts for Baldur's Gate 3, too, And the same instincts overcame my fomo.

Like, I liked Sekiro a lot but wish I loved it, because I'm not a huge fan of parrying. A lot of people were like, you've got to play it like a rhythm game! But I don't really like them either. Loved the world building though, just as I assume I would love it in this game.

That's the thing for me, Sekiro isn't really about parrying in isolation, I think the idea was to change the flow of their combat system (longer, faster exchanges until someone's posture is broken).

But I haven't played this, so if it reminds you of Sekiro, then I believe you dl!

it sort of is a rhythm game. i dunno. it is and it isn't like sekiro in the same way it is and it isn't like super mario rpg. the gameplay honestly feels unique but familiar. it's largely based on memorising the individual enemy attacks while being as organised as possible with your team and finding unique ways to OP your enemies.

Here's me fighting the first boss. I'm terrible at it, but it might give you and idea of what's going on:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6WG_P5h8b4

I am not very good at parrying/dodging in this game, but I've found that it isn't critical for success (except on some optional bosses who can one-shot you). It won't necessarily spell failure if you miss half your attempts, as long as you are playing smart with the character skills and perks. The traditional RPG party-building and planning is more critical than any of the twitch stuff. For example, one of the Pictos/Luminas is a life-steal skill that couples with any party member's basic attack. And some of the party members have bespoke life-steal skills that are even more powerful. And then There are also shared AP-buffing skills, etc. And then there are all the ways you can buff damage to ludicrous extents and take suckers out quick. This stuff has gotten me to the end of some tough fights.

ugh, i woke up with a low key RSI in my index finger from playing this

i'm still a bit confused about how Luminas and Pictos work tbh

It took me a while to wrap my head around it too because of the weird jargon and bad menu system, but it's pretty simple.

Pictos enable passive abilities for a single character. Once that character wins four fights with the Picto equipped, the ability enters the pool of Luminas that any character can equip, provided they have enough points for it.

What's confusing to me is the weapon upgrade system. I thought it was just a matter of giving the upgrade materials to creepy faceless guy at camp, but also they seem to get upgraded after use in battle sometimes? While this game is very good, it does seem to suffer a bit from mechanical over-design.

I just got into Act II and a Persona-style relationship leveling system has been introduced, and I'm not sure how I feel about it. To borrow a Tim Rogers word, it feels a bit paraphenalious.

I don't feel like we're talking about this game enough. Maybe because any discussion would involve spoilers and it's the kind if game that just keeps giving and giving when it comes to story and plot twists.

But I think it's fantastic. Maybe the best thing I've played since Elden Ring, which is high praise. Something about turn-based RPGs means you get to meet a cast of buddies and hang out with then, as opposed to being just a lonely rugged guy thinking baout things and never saying very much.

The combat is so satisfying. I rarely bother with dodging any more - no point really, if I can attempt to parry. It is tough though. That said, I've pretty much found my build, preferring to use the three female characters (Maelle is OP) over Monoco and Verso whose mechanics seem complicated. Just at the part with the Axons and I'm beating bosses and enemies pretty easily at this stage.

I've put a solid 40hrs into this so far and I'm still about halfway through the game, but there still seems to be so many places to explore - and that's before I get the ability to fly or swim underwater, so looks like I'll be playing for a good while more

Yeah I'm at 30-something hours and have also not yet gotten Esquie's diving or flying abilities. I've taken down one of the Axons, and recently got the ability to destroy those gnarly root things that are scattered around the world, so I've been going back to previous areas to break those and unlock goodies & fights. I'm not a completionist; I don't have the level of obsession required to 100% any game. But the figures on Howlongtobeat are misleading for sure. I'm estimating I will finish having put 50-some hours in. Which honestly, is a good JRPG length for me, but I wouldn't mind something even shorter!

I'm going to take back what I said earlier about the dodge and parry timings not being that important. They are really important. But again, you don't have to make all of them; getting it right 2/3rds to 3/4s of the time is about enough.

One weird detail about the world map is kind of driving me nuts. How do the expeditions sail from Lumiere to the inner part of the continent when there is clearly a wall of impassable mountains in the way?? I'm assuming the map is designed that way to keep players from returning to Lumiere as soon as Esquie can swim. Does that mean that the party can return to Lumiere once he can fly?

Some random observations:

- every time the BACK AT CAMP title card shows up, I cringe at the poor kerning

- You get to level up A LOT in this game, so much so that it can start to feel arbitrary where I put my points a lot of the time. I don't really know whether I should be putting more points into different aspects for different characters. Tend to stick a lot of vitality and defence into Lune, as she's a healer, but other than that it's fairly evenly spread.

- you can re-jig most of the stats at any point, but adding Lumina points or upgrading weapons has to be done at camp; but I'm not really sure why they decided to make it like that

- I've got a rrally good system going on with Maelle, Lune and Sciel now - I don't think I'll ever use Monoco and Verso unless they get brought in as the B team in a tough fight. That said, my method of applying burn with Lune, then getting Maelle into Virtuous Stance asap seems to work in almost every case. I'm pretty over powered now so I'm not finding many enemies challenging. Maybe I should increase the difficulty

I adore this game. just started Act III last night.

Oh yeah. Hands down most enjoyable game I've played since Elden Ring, and that's saying something

Aw man, I like the idea of playing a big ol' RPG in theory, but then I remember that I have no tolerance any more for passively taking in dialogue (or story really) in games, and that they probably don't work in the 30 min bursts that I have for playing. Maybe someday.

Fwiw I don't feel like they waste your time in the cutscenes. And the "talky" bits are paced really well throughout. It's like, you play a bit, then there's a section where you regroup with your pals, and those bits feel naturally like the game is telling you to switch off and come back tomorrow

Has anyone ever used a recoat in this game? I seem to have acquired a ton of them, but I don't really see why I woukd want to use them really

i used one when i accidentally put points in the wrong stat after changing my weapon lol

Just pulled off 94 successful parties in a 20 minute battle with a mime and two aides. Phew! My trigger finger is going to hurt tomorrow. I'm seriously worried my controller isn't going to last the day

Xp I feel like I get so many chances to level up that it stops really mattering where I put my points, and even if it did, I'd be able to balance it out after a few fights. I'm not really too sure how tactical I should be with my stats, but I'm near the Paintress now and the difficulty level is starting to ease off a fair bit, save for some tougher optional bosses - I'm pretty OP and seem to be able to get away with deploying roughly the same tactics with each fight.

That said, the great thing about this game is that the team knew exactly how much they could chew and they took it to that level and went no further. That's actually a really good thing: It's ambitious enough, but everything it does, it does extremely well

I worry I'm nearing the endgame on this, but I'm only about 25hours in. Feel like I've gone in a fairly straight line, though, so might go rummage around the overword for optional bits - are there entirely optional areas beyond where the map arrows direct you?

Yeah there are. The advice I've been given is that you should just play the main game through and then do the other stuff later

OK I'm finally at Act 3 and I'm not sure how I feel about the narrative and perspective shift. I won't call it a "twist" because it's not that--the groundwork is so clearly laid for it that it doesn't really come as a surprise. Even a player paying the least attention to the story would noticed that the game's world isn't exactly as it seems. So I knew something was up, but I didn't expect the fully metafictional turn. It feels a little "DO YOU SEE? YOU'RE PLAYING A VIDEOGAME" which I always find a bit insulting, even when it's well-intended. It's strange that the game spends so much time and care setting up the stakes of life and death for the characters, only to reveal that they live in a world where life and death are mutable. Meanwhile, the only real death that has occurred in the story has occurred somewhere else, to a character we never except via a projection of someone else's memories of him. It's weird and frustating!

SPOILERS:

Completed it last night. Not sure if I found it as frustrating as you. You're right, there was definitely going to be a "twist", likely metafictional, and I'm not sure quite how you pull off a reveal like that without a big, slightly overwhelming exposition dump at the end. I actually got to the end of Act 2 about a week ago when I was really tired; then I played the epilogue through last night, so I was a bit confused by a few things: "Why am I fighting Renoir again? Didn't I just kill the Paintress? How is the Curator also Renoir? Who painted the painting, Verso or the Paintress? What's Clea got to do with all this?" etc, but I'm guessing it does all make sense - it was just explained so quickly. Another thing I found interesting was the moral decision you make at the end. I was Team Renoir pretty much all the way, so for most of the epilogue I was screaming at the TV saying "Just destroy the painting!", which (of course) is what the game wants you to do. Sadly, because my Maelle was so OP and I'd barely used Verso, I chose her and got the "bad" ending.

My understanding about those things (spoilers!!):
The Renoir you fight in Act 2, along with the masked Alicia and the Verso that joins your party, are painted copies by Aline (the Paintress). That's why that version of Renoir is trying to prevent you from reaching the Paintress. The Curator is the "real" Renoir, which is why he's faceless (like the Paintress and the boy who represents the real Verso's soul). The painting is Verso's childhood canvas, so the world itself and many of the creatures in it (Esquie, Monoco, the Gestrals, the Grandis) are his creations from childhood. I get the sense that Verso lost interest in painting at some point before he died, so all those remnants are very childlike. Lumière and its citizens, on the other hand, are Aline's creations. Clea (sometimes referred to by denizens of the Canvas as "the Mistress") created the Nevrons to kill the denizens of the Canvas while locking their chroma in place so Aline can't use it. (She alludes to this in the fake epilogue.) I have a feeling that there's more Clea stuff in the endgame side quests, but I haven't found anything yet other than little hints and her shadowy doppelganger in the Endless Tower.

Ah thanks crüt. I got to endgame yesterday, and other than doing the various friend quests, I'm not sure quite what I'm meant to be doing. I've done all of them except Monoco's quest because it involves fighting Golgra with on ly him and Verso, who are highly underleveled in my game. Other than that, am I just meant to wander around? It would be handy if there'd been a marker system so I can make note of where I've explored and where I haven't

Anyway, much as I like this game, I reckon I might have to stop soon as I'm starting to get a muscle imbalance from snapping my finger on the r1 250 times a night

Jeeeesus the Grosse Tete boss really didn't do anything for my lateral epicondylitis... What a G

I'm just wondering around in the post-game hoovering up items in areas I hadn't explored. It's strange because at this stage it feels like levels are either stupidly easy or crazy difficult with no in between. I went into the little underwater area that leads to Renoir's Letters and oh my god was it tough!

I found the same when wandering around before returning to Lumiere for the final showdown - all the areas were either one-shotting the enemies or a battle that was deadly or incredibly time-consuming. I felt like I should have stumbled on more of these places as I played through in the earlier game sections! I just completed the game last night, and got to say it was pretty great, and felt about the perfect length (as someone who doesn't generally get a lot of gaming time these days). I do wonder how much replay-ability it has. I stuck with a fairly static 'main 3' for most of the game, but perhaps I can just swap out for the post-game and play with the underdeveloped other two

There's definitely enough post game content to keep me busy for a while. But like you I didn't dally at all during the story - it felt like it was encouraging me to play the main game going from point to point towards the Monolith. But apparently it's absolutely fine to have a few stop offs ik other places on the way.