Health Meters: Search & Destroy

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Do you like your in-game health represented by a row of hearts? A bar that changes color as your health decreases? Or do you prefer raw numerical hit point data?

Also up for discussion: different metrics of health, e.g. mental health, stamina, etc.

elmo (allocryptic), Monday, 21 November 2005 19:24 (twenty years ago)

i don't like numerical hit point data in non-rpgs. i find it... vulgar.

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 21 November 2005 20:02 (twenty years ago)

keep this thread! this thread!

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 21 November 2005 20:18 (twenty years ago)

Haha, so far one thread is pro numbers and one is anti numbers. It's SCIENCE VERSUS FAITH!

JimD (JimD), Monday, 21 November 2005 20:19 (twenty years ago)

Whatever the health meter is, ALL the data that is available for my perusal should be on the main screen. Having a bar and no numbers on one screen and then my actual HP readout available on some sub-screen with the rest of my stats is BULLSHIT and ANNOYING, I hate going through submenus and shit to make decisions!

So anyway, for action games/action RPGs, graphics all the way! For anything turn based you better give me ready access to the math or I'll lose my mind.

TOMBOT, Monday, 21 November 2005 20:24 (twenty years ago)

(lifted from the duplicate thread -- sorry folks)

Numbers. Hearts are about as accurate as an iPod's battery display.
-- Pleasant Plains ///

I was thinking about original Zelda for this -- how are the hearts inaccurate? The hearts are clearly marked as full or empty (sometimes one half-full), so health is clearly understandable as a fraction where full health = 1.

The ability to add hearts, thus increasing your overall health capacity is totally classic.

elmo (allocryptic), Monday, 21 November 2005 20:30 (twenty years ago)

I'd bet that you're really into blue skies, too.

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Monday, 21 November 2005 20:58 (twenty years ago)

I kind of like the amiguity of the Street Fighter II style bar, for those moments when you get hit and the bar is EMPTY, but somehow you're still operating on zero health and you pull out a miraculous win, and your friend doesn't even get mad because it was AMAZING.

Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 21 November 2005 21:14 (twenty years ago)

I think I know what Pleasant Plains is getting at. It's basically like your HP starts at 6 (half hearts) and maxes out at 40 (half hearts). It's not inaccurate though, and I think the visual health meter suits Zelda-type games better than ##HP would.

xpost

sleep (sleep), Monday, 21 November 2005 21:28 (twenty years ago)

So I got the idea for this thread watching my friend play Indigo Prophecy this weekend, which has a health meter based on your mental state (from "neutral" through "nervous" and "agitated" to "wrecked"). Certain events in the plot and certain actions you perform have an effect on your mental state, which can in turn affect your ability to notice things in your investigations. If you get to zero, you off yourself or something. (I think -- I didn't see what happened) It was interesting since your mental state was not only a health meter, but also a status modifier that affected gameplay.

A similar, but more interesting execution of this concept I saw in Eternal Darkness (loosely based on Lovecraftian mythos), in which your health is measured in sanity. Every time you saw one of the Elder Gods or their minions, your sanity decreased. If it got too low, the game would start to fuck with you -- it would suddenly mute the game and put the green MUTE letters on your screen. Or your character's head would fall off and start reciting Shakespeare. Or it would prompt a fake error message stating your saved game had been lost and your memory card erased, thus fucking up your real-life mental state.

elmo (allocryptic), Monday, 21 November 2005 22:35 (twenty years ago)

haha! that's funny.

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 21 November 2005 22:44 (twenty years ago)

Numerical RPG stats sometimes feel too... technical for me. I agree with slocki, it does feel a little vulgar or perhaps sterile, but I can't think of a better workable system for complex turn-based play. The metaphors of hearts, stars, or other Lucky Charms marshmallows are great for Zelda and other fantastical games, but too twee for any kind of simulation. Percentages seem like the most realistic way to represent anything that purports to be "real"--even in real life, people talk about operating at 50% or 100% (or, irritatingly, 110%).

Laura H. (laurah), Monday, 21 November 2005 23:04 (twenty years ago)

Instead of numbers, I wish that my truck's speedometer used spinning wheels to denote speed of travel.

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Monday, 21 November 2005 23:16 (twenty years ago)

oh can we do simulation v abstraction!

Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Monday, 21 November 2005 23:50 (twenty years ago)

destroy:

the numerical DOOM listing, it's too easy to miss how damaged you are
the Civ2 bar that I never understood (Civ3's was much better)
the "no bar, just look at how much the character is sweating" approach that was tried in some lame SNES games

älänbänänä (alanbanana), Tuesday, 22 November 2005 20:03 (twenty years ago)

I kind of like the non-bar representations of health. Like in ghosts n ghouls or die hard, how you get more and more naked as you approach death.

whatever, Tuesday, 22 November 2005 21:22 (twenty years ago)

Destroy: The Getaway, where you judge your health by how unplayable the game is getting.

Search: Fear Effect's heart-beat meter! Most impractical, but kind of clever.

melton mowbray (adr), Tuesday, 22 November 2005 21:30 (twenty years ago)

Zelda hearts = more effective in communicating your overall health than HP.

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Wednesday, 23 November 2005 01:59 (twenty years ago)

(in non-RPGs, I mean)

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Wednesday, 23 November 2005 01:59 (twenty years ago)

Non-RPGs should shoot for the least extraneous information possible. With the exception of things like racing games, it's counterintuitive to put too much on.

Shadow of the Colossus implemented this so well that you forgot about your stat bars unless you need them (which wasn't very often because about a fifth of the game was combat)

MGS was good for this too.

ethanol demagogue, Wednesday, 23 November 2005 08:48 (twenty years ago)

oh destroy the old Res Evil health systems, 'Caution' and 'Danger'.
and the Silent Hill health system was equally baffling.

and destroy health bars that have extra maximum values represented by colours! It's about as useful as the percentage progress bars on pc installations that don't actually represent the full percentage but they have a bar for each file!

Search : zelda hearts and any health indicator that flashes when low.

Ste (Fuzzy), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 11:47 (twenty years ago)

search: mario

cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 13:14 (twenty years ago)

S: Wolfenstein 3D's "pummeled face" icon
(http://cerberus.gamershell.com/screenshots/166/5770_full.jpg)

D: Blake Stone's horrible heart beat thingy
(http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~brlowe/Images/blake1.gif)

I understand the new King Kong game doesn't have *any* health indicators whatsoever. Apparently they want it to be more realistic in that people really have no idea what percentage close to death they are when someone's beating them up. The giant apes and dinosaurs bit may take some of the realism away...

Onimo (GerryNemo), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 15:14 (twenty years ago)

er, I'm fairly sure I'd know how close to death I was if i was beaten up

Ste (Fuzzy), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 15:28 (twenty years ago)

Really? Some guy's kicked you in the face 4 times and hit you twice with a baseball bat, one of which was a glancing blow. What is your health percentage?

Onimo (GerryNemo), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 15:30 (twenty years ago)

less than 10%

Ste (Fuzzy), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 15:43 (twenty years ago)

aren't there games that make the background music more threatening / intense when your health is low? i know there are a few, but i remember which right now.

elmo (allocryptic), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 16:15 (twenty years ago)

I feel like Sonic the Hedgehog did that, but maybe I'm just thinking of the underwater levels where the music would change when you were almost out of air.

n/a (Nick A.), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 16:19 (twenty years ago)

Oh yeah, the "running out of air" music was so OTT and stressful.

However, the "ring" health system was actually pretty inventive.

Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 16:23 (twenty years ago)

the roast chicken that turns to skeleton in Atic Atac

Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 16:37 (twenty years ago)

I liked the Halo system of auto-replenishing, never having to really worry about finding health packs.

Ste (Fuzzy), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 16:53 (twenty years ago)

Re: health items, I never understood how in Gauntlet (and countless other games) how you can heal your injuries by eating.

elmo (allocryptic), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 16:57 (twenty years ago)

Food makes you healthier, duh. Have a cheeseburger.

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 17:06 (twenty years ago)

It's all about user interface design and information, people.
If a game is going to making me use my reflexes to overcome obstacles then I want to be able to make quick assessments of the health meter without the info getting in the way of the more time-sensitive details of my location and activities around me. So graphical displays are better than numerals because it's more difficult to parse the relationships between numeral values quickly.

If I'm expected to make calculated decisions and puzzle things out then go ahead and give me the hard numbers. A little graph is nice, but yeah, strategy without numeral indicators, well, that's not strategy at all!

My favorites though have to be the meters in games like Metroid or Fire Emblem where you get both, a graphic indicator bar and a numerical readout next to it. Those win. Metroid also gets massive bonus points for having the sense to make it so you only have to read two numerals at a time. Once you get into the 100s/1000s it gets kind of annoying to have to manage the relationships in your head on the fly, I really think there's a lot to be said for minimizing the amount of health info you have to deal with. (I hate RPGs where the smallest amount of damage you ever incur is like 3 points and your characters have 150 health early on. HELLO. REDUCE EVERYTHING BY 66%. THIS IS NOT THE ARCADE, I AM NOT PLAYING TO IMPRESS MYSELF WITH ZEROES)

TOMBOT, Wednesday, 23 November 2005 18:12 (twenty years ago)

aren't there games that make the background music more threatening / intense when your health is low? i know there are a few, but i remember which right now.

Populus had a heart beat mixed into the music that got more and more frantic as you approached death.

Occam's Reznor (ex machina), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 18:42 (twenty years ago)

Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island uses the brilliant "number of seconds you have to rescue baby Mario" life point system.

The Yellow Kid, Wednesday, 23 November 2005 18:52 (twenty years ago)


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