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feel like dirk is was too low on this:
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarank22932314/nbarank-game-changers-25-most-influential-basketball-players-ever

unclear what that list is about

we are presenting the 100 NBA players who have done the most to change the way we play the game, how we talk about the game, and the culture of basketball.

For this special edition of #NBArank, we asked our panel to choose the players who have influenced the game most, both on and off the court: the real game-changers.

'influence' is a broad term. I was taking it as players who have changed the game the most.

a list of on court influence wld be cool but stuff like changed the way we talk about the game seems kinda meaningless, also like half of brons entry is all "he has good stats" which is just a normal good at basketball list

if it were just about changing the actual game steph wld be way ahead of bron

lot of media navel gazing in there

Yah and Kobe didn’t influence anything he’s a carbon copy of mj

otm

boom

kobe ahead of shaq is unconscionable, they had to change the rules bc of shaq ughhhhhhhhh people's infatuation with kobe mythology makes me so mad

yeah kobe has no real legacy on the game other than winning a bunch

and being a dickhead

in my lifetime, players who have changed how other teams play by copying or coming up with special schemes to stop them, or have infuenced other players in no particular order:
-- shaq (hack a shaq)
-- steph (30 footers are good now)
-- dirk (tall guys should shoot threes aka the stretch 4)
-- manu (eurostepping, really good flopping, old man game, americans are not unbeatable)
-- MJ (you dont need a big man to dominate the whole league)
-- magic (a 6'9" can play every position)
-- draymond (you should be able to defend everyone when you switch on screens)
-- nash (shoot 3s all the time and do sick passes a lot too)
-- AI (little guys can be dominant scorers)
-- lebron (players who are karl malone-sized can also be very fast and have a shooting touch and also crazy court vision)
-- tim duncan (you can be an elite defender into middle age even if u cant jump)
-- kevin garnett (anything is possible)

i'd add durant (7'0" do-it-all swingman, shooting weird shots from everywhere)

yeah for sure

durant's not really waht i'm thinking about w/ this category though because he's not possible to copy for all but 0.00001% of players. there's no actionable lessons learned

if it were just about changing the actual game steph wld be way ahead of bron

― lag∞n, Wednesday, March 28, 2018 8:43 PM (fifty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lot of media navel gazing in there

― lag∞n, Wednesday, March 28, 2018 8:44 PM (fifty-six minutes ago)

I feel like bron kind of ushered in this triple-double era tho

I love AI but Tiny Archibald showed little guys could be dominant scorers. Led the league in 72-73 in shots made, shots attempted, free throws made, free throws attempted, assists and scoring. What AI did was change the cultural resonance of the NBA and got them to eliminate carrying violations.

As one of the resident old farts, the players I'd add to m bison's list are Larry Bird, Kareem, and Hakeem. All were players you had to scheme for or they'd crush you, and while singular talents they all changed what people thought possible.

That ESPN didn't talk about the Lew Alcindor rule (no dunks in the NCAA) or the NBA widening the key to deal with Wilt's dominance was dumb.

these sorts of lists are always destined to just devolve into arguments for who was better lol just run all-time NBArank every year my basic ass would read it for sure

thank u ez snappin for making snapping easier and providing historical analysis

I'm an old man yelling at hoop clouds

Good list bison. Ez otm about iverson.

Manu influential for sure, might add Vlade too?

Rodman too. Showed you can dominate without scoring.

vlade = passing big man, euro pioneer?
i guess there were quite a few rebound and defend and little offense players after him i.e. reggie evans and i guess deandre jordan

don't forget Ben Wallace

can someone plz explain to me why the eurostep is...euro? is it not something that was already in the game?

i'll take my answer off the air, thx

Ben Wallace and even draymo to an extent

euro step is changing direction on your second step after youve picked up your dribble. most american players would plow straight aheadwith their two steps, but manu showed the world how u 1-2 step through the defense to make points and sick passes

yessss ben wallace, how soon i forget

thx u ilh hoops mod

towns w a wolves record tonight, dang

Kat wow

Fun jazz celts game. Tied with under a min

Wow Celtics stole this one

Celts are really having a blessed season

on some level yes but on the other hand their two best players are injured

euro step is changing direction on your second step after youve picked up your dribble. most american players would plow straight aheadwith their two steps, but manu showed the world how u 1-2 step through the defense to make points and sick passes

― NBA YoungBoy named Rocky Raccoon (m bison), Wednesday, March 28, 2018 11:15 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i love how manu is a. not euro and b. not the 1st nba player to have the euro step in his arsenal but is none the less c. undisputedly the euro step godfather

i always think nick van exel influenced nash to shoot 3s with no conscience when they were mavs together

ha good shout out.

was thinking more about this earlier and another name that came to mind was Sam Perkins, was he the first center to hoist? dude gave the 2nd half of his career a real boost w the hoisting,

pretty sure my dying words will be "the history of the nba would be radically different had sabonis come over in his mid-20's"

good last words

it's early yet, but harden may join that list for his extreme threes/rim/foul shots scoring distribution

Dude what happened to Sam after 91-92?? That's crazy. Though the one 3 I remember of his was game 1 of the '91 Finals.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/perkisa01.html

did AI get the league to remove the hand check rules too?

him getting to the rack so consistently in a. that super physical era while b. being so slight and c. on a team with no other threats is an underrated accomplishment

always thought pound for pound, inch for inch, he was the best I've ever seen

Hand check rule changed in 2004 so not directly an AI thing.

that game 1 win in the 2001 finals against the Shaq/Kobe Lakers was one of the best things I've ever seen.

greatest game i've ever seen (well listened to on a tiny contraband radio but still)

Yeah on a size adjusted basis ai is like almost indisputably one of the best players ever

Once in a while I think about what he could do if you teleported him into today, p sure he would lead the league in scoring and it wouldn’t be close

I mean he did it four times anyway (!!!) in a hand check era and with no talent around him, bet he could average 40 now