nba off season 2024 bud 2 suns etc

as a chris paul stan I am looking forward to the spurs season

at the very least the spurs now have a guy who can throw the ball to wemby, it will be fun to see how high can he throw it

last year it was like devin vassell you know you can throw that four feet higher

Odds this the new meta?

The Dallas Mavericks announced today that they have acquired 5-time All-Star Klay Thompson and a future 2nd-round pick as part of a six-team sign-and-trade deal in exchange for Josh Green and a future 2nd-round pick.

It marks the first six-team trade in NBA history. pic.twitter.com/BKHszomMay

— Mavs PR (@MavsPR) July 7, 2024

a nice big trade :)

last year it was like devin vassell you know you can throw that four feet higher

― lag∞n, Sunday, July 7, 2024 9:45 AM (seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

yeah you could tell the non-wemby spurs just had never played ball with an actual star before, but i also think they were given more of a green light to just try shit out and see what worked, so there was less emphasis on spamming "get the ball to the big guy" offense. i think this offseason shows that open mic night is over.

i love this lineup: cp3-vassell-sochan-barnes-wemby

that's 4 legit outside shooters plus sochan (wemby didnt shoot great from 3 but he improved as the year went on, andsochan isnt a complete disaster there)

the biggest thing here i think is that the worst spurs players (branham, wesley, collins) will see a decline in their playing time with those minutes getting absorbed by actual nba rotation players. they really struggled closing winnable games last year an they should be able to do a lot better on that end.

It's been more than a week since the start of free agency and the Pelicans still haven't figured out what the future holds for Brandon Ingram.

Now that Paul George is in Philly and DeRozan in Sacramento, is New Orleans running low on trade options?https://t.co/tGzfZ5hehv

— Will Guillory (@WillGuillory) July 8, 2024

kinda shocked ingram hasn't been dealt yet, kind of in that class of stars who aren't #1 guys who want #1 money and i guess teams are not super jazzed about giving up assets for the honor of paying him $50m a year the next few seasons

yeah will be interesting to see what happens with him and guys like him under the new conditions

he turned down a max extension last year in order to try to make all nba and get a super max so not sure hes really processing the new reality

logistically its more difficult now too since a team that thinks hes the last piece to a championship and might overpay is likely to be over the second apron and therefor cant trade multiple guys for one, im trying to trade him to minny and its just not going to work

i don't think people have fully reckoned w/ the idea that after lebron left cleveland the owners have been on a crusade to restrict player movement, which has continued unabated into this seemingly insane new CBA, to the point that the avenues for player movement are becoming so narrow and restrictive that we just saw the first 6 team trade in NBA history executed in which the main 3 players moved (klay, kyle anderson, buddy hield) were all actually "unrestricted" free agents

the media class is so cba pilled now that nobody ever really steps back and talks about this, bcuz they're all too busy playing shadow GM in the public sphere, but then again we need them to, bcuz how else to actually understand why things are happening in the league

good point, it is kinda funny how players just went around it via trade demands tho

i've posted about this before but the broad arc of the nba since 2010 is as follows

1. lebron and bosh sign w/ the heat

2. in response the owners add rules into the subsequent CBA allowing teams to offer their own players more years and more money in exclusive negotiating periods that happen years before they become free agents

3. high level free agency is killed

4. the most valued players, and most players period, can only be moved via trades

5. every team is always signing their players early to "retain the asset," only the very worst teams in the league have cap space

6. the trade market becomes extremely overheated

7. teams begin hoarding all their artificially limited trade assets (i.e. you can't trade your 2052 first) & then spending them all at once, future trade assets are consolidated among a handful of teams

*new CBA*

8. with free agency effectively killed, the owners begin taking aim at player movement in the trade market, adding in new restrictions that harshly penalize teams that take back more money in a trade (no other sport has salary matching rules) and make it so that the most expensive teams -- i.e. the best ones, the ones that are competing for titles -- basically cannot complete trades if they're paying their players too much money collectively

maybe things shake themselves out, the market finds a way etc guys like shai and ant could choose to shake the league up who knows but i think this is going to continue to go to a pretty bad, unsatisfying, and confusing place for the sport

because the players are so rich nowadays and because we all live for trade rumor drama etc i really don't think ppl have woken up to the fact that this is like a pre-1970s mlb owner level attack on free agency by nba owners over the last decade plus

xp - The main goal of the cba for the players has always been to increase player compensation across the board in ways that feel equitable to the players. It's just that provisions like the max, supermax and vet minimums have basically replaced the free agency poker game that used to be played among owners, players and their agents. The continuing existence of UFAs is an atavistic survival.

might be true that the owners have seized the initiative in the player movement wars, the flip side of that is because of how punitive the new lux tax is owners will want to move players more now, and —ironically— its going to be in a way that makes people hate the owners, blowing up good teams

i don't think any of this has been bad for the players, which is what makes it a bit different from a labor POV. the CBA is collectively bargained! it's hard to even call it a war because the stars have happily accepted restricted movement in exchange for the opportunity to secure more guaranteed money earlier in their lives. the losers in the war are the fans, who have to essentially begin legal scholarship to understand the forces dictating why their favorite team is behaving the way it is

men have never been so preoccupied with aprons in all of us history

I love it all. The more complex the better. It’s my favorite part of the game.

theyve gone too far this time, also it might be bad

chances of becoming an nba player: 1 in a million
chances of becoming a lawyer: 1 in 300
chances of becoming a hoops podcaster who can talk about the cba rules: 100%

i don't think any of this has been bad for the players, which is what makes it a bit different from a labor POV. the CBA is collectively bargained! it's hard to even call it a war because the stars have happily accepted restricted movement in exchange for the opportunity to secure more guaranteed money earlier in their lives.

― slob wizard (J0rdan S.), Monday, July 8, 2024 1:35 PM (forty-one minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

its true that the players dont seem to care that much maybe due to the fact that the movement or lack thereof is really all about the stars, majority of players are moving all the time just trying to stay in the league get a lil longer contract, and overall the players just get ~51% of revenue regardless of what happens anyway so if the lux tax depresses contract numbers it doesnt actually since the players are getting their chunk regardless which is kind of funny to think about, thing that made me think the players union doesnt care that much about player movement is that they didnt get that much back in return for agreeing to this stuff

ultimately the players and the owners are aligned in not really caring too much about the ramifications of getting more money

im willing to get on board with it if they cut me in

It's the 7th Annual I Love Hoops NBA Role Player Hollafame - VOTING & CAMPAIGNING THREAD (voting closes SUNDAY, JULY 21, 2024, 11:59 PM CST)

BTW FRIENDS it's that time of year

we kinda lost a whole half decade of the NBA (KD warriors era) to the whims of the CBA as generated by neither owners nor players caring too much about the ramifications of being drowned in money for 1 season. this stuff didn't used to happen

i guess the 80s had cocaine

or maybe ppl cared, tho they prob didn't, and instead just didn't understand the ramifications. that is also a huge problem w/ these CBAs consistently

i think your broad arc is correct but also much more haphazard--it is true that a lot of the post-2010 rules were designed to help teams retain their players as a response to what was viewed as free agecy run amok, but i don't view the current round of changes as a throughline of that--the things like salary matching in trades are aligned with the most recent crisis of the moment which is the idea that steve ballmer could and would somehow just buy a championship.

the punitive luxury tax and second apron stuff will ultimately drive player movement as it will be hard to keep good teams together for more than a couple years. importantly, that player movement won't be nearly as player-initiated but i do think high profile players will be able to wield some influence as to where they go when their teams get broken up.

i tend to think that the CBA negotiations are very reactive to what's happening in the moment at the time when the CBA is being negotiated. a big problem with that is the sides try to solve for what's happening in the moment by building on the prior CBA in increasingly esoteric ways, which leads to a lot of painting into corners and unintended consequences. from a logical standpoint, they should really consider doing a teardown and build from scratch, but there's no *obvious* benefit to it and it would be actual work, which no one wants as long as the money is flowing.

my understanding is that second-round picks are essentially useless. so why does so much of the six-team klay trade involve second-round picks and/or swaps?

is this related to, as J0rdan said, (no other sport has salary matching rules)?

a lot of times they are used to satisfy touching requirements in multi-team trades which is one of the legacy CBA constructs that could use a fresh look if anyone was inclined

o fuc, 'touching requirements'?

hello sir i require touching

i tend to think that the CBA negotiations are very reactive to what's happening in the moment at the time when the CBA is being negotiated. a big problem with that is the sides try to solve for what's happening in the moment by building on the prior CBA in increasingly esoteric ways, which leads to a lot of painting into corners and unintended consequences. from a logical standpoint, they should really consider doing a teardown and build from scratch, but there's no *obvious* benefit to it and it would be actual work, which no one wants as long as the money is flowing.

― call all destroyer, Monday, July 8, 2024 7:23 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

CAD, I hear you, but he’s the nominee and he’s not going anywhere, and he’s going to win

it’s true that the current CBA is aimed more at balmer and lacob than it is lebron — that’s largely bcuz free agency was so thoroughly murdered that the owners had no one else left to destroy but each other. i would argue that there is a throughline though, which is that the majority of owners (those in smaller markets) are fearful of being left behind & thus have constructed a league with a remarkably dense, byzantine basic rule structure that is essentially inscrutable to even hardcore fans of the league

as i said earlier the framing of it as a labor fight b/w owners vs players isn’t right, because the players are having it their way too. i’m making a larger & more existential point about how the the CBA in the NBA is now discussed, dissected, analyzed and explained as much as any team or player these days. that is not true for other sports. and the tipping point of it — along w/ moneyball culture in sports more generally — was the owners reaction to the heatles

if the 6 team trade so that 3 “unrestricted” free agents could move teams is a preview of where the next 4-5 offseasons are headed the sport is gonna start getting to territories of arcane stupidity that it will have to massively recorrect

for reasons jordan has, as ever as my most cherished poster on this board, laid out — or at least as those facts point to some inevitable collusion — none of this is realty a labor issue any more in the most classically legible sense. this is all just a video game now. I’m glad, honestly, that for whatever inconvenience some player and their family might suffer, uktimately we’re talking about the quid-ags of multi-multimillionaires. that’s great for the consumer in this narrow respect: I don’t need to worry that my entertainment is morally compromised by some sense of duty to the worker. so now I can just say: this new paradigm sucks!! for me

k3v otm

if the 6 team trade so that 3 “unrestricted” free agents could move teams is a preview of where the next 4-5 offseasons are headed the sport is gonna start getting to territories of arcane stupidity that it will have to massively recorrect

― slob wizard (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, July 9, 2024 1:27 AM (five hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Had the 6 team trade not occurred before the deadline those players would have become unrestricted (no quotes) free agents and would have moved as none of their former teams actually wanted them any longer, at least not at the price their new teams were willing to pay. That the former teams were able to obtain a minor asset or two is a form of market efficiency that I do not think is going to go away regardless of how they change the CBA. These deals also give the former teams a fig leaf to say, "at least we got something for the guy that was going to walk", which is a minor help in PR or lying to themselves.

yeah, i understand all that. i’m saying that it’s extremely stupid and unnecessary

but also — that whole trade was generated because the mavs couldn’t actually just sign klay if he became an unrestricted FA. klay was never going to become a free agent bcuz there were only like 3 teams with cap space this summer (philly, orlando, detroit) and none of those teams were apparently a fit for him. that is the problem. this was not 6 teams getting together to back scratch each other with assets regarding moves that were going to happen regardless. it was all contingent on those teams banding together to maneuver around the CBA. again, no other sport necessitates trades like this, or for these reasons. it is not normal

perhaps the hardaway trade cleared the space and klay could’ve just signed w/ them, i honestly forget now. but the very nature of this conversation is precisely my point about how ridiculous the act of following player movement, and thus the NBA, has become!

lebron and bosh to the heat were sign and trades, technically speaking btw. the asset back scratching is what it is. but if you can’t see how we’ve gotten to an extremely perverted version of that scenario — two guys choose as FAs to go to another team, the losing team gets tossed a couple of picks — then idk what to tell you

wait no the mavs still needed to dump josh green’s salary even after the hardaway deal. would anyone on this board pass a test regarding this trade

Gotcha. Getting rid of salary matching in trades and just requiring cap compliance before and after would probably go a long way to solving those issues.

I guess it doesn't bother me. I hate hearing how analytics are ruining the game. Let the nerds nerd.

funny thing about writing a bunch of new rules to undermine ballmer is his team wasnt good it was already impossible to just spend yr way to a ring, tho obvs it was an advantage, i think the other billionaires are just mad that theres a much richer guy around

in the warriors case they had a great team then spent a ton to keep it rolling which seems not that offensive

and if there isn't a one year cap spike the warriors possibly don't win another title in that time span, maybe win 1 etc but the perception of them as a team that spent its way to a dynasty probably doesn't exist