DRAY v KLAY

if basketball=nut kicking dray is HOF

http://www.thomstratton.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/IVoted.jpg

pretty damn hard to pick imo.

not that hard imo, golden state's roster serves to underrate klay and overrate draymond. put draymond on an average team and ppl would talk about him roughly like how they talk about steven adams.

need to try to remember some of my old logins

imo if you put klay on a bad team he puts up an empty 24-25 ppg. if anyone is a system player it is he. the warriors system works because of drays versatility not the other way around

Klay is one of the best shooters in the league and a serviceable perimeter defender. Dray is a better defender and a worse shooter (significantly) who can do more things on the court tho i think his 3 pt ability is perhaps more significant given his position and who he guards. i think if u put both of them on teams w league avg dudes, klay's team would put up more than wins, and generally speaking i think klay's skillset is more generally valuable so i vote Klay

dray is an all world defender but a far below average scorer and a good playmaker where people think hes great cause hes playing with great players to playmake with

i think he might have a thing for kicking people in the nuts . not sure if that's a pos or a neg tho

draymond has only kicked someone in the nuts once tbf

phil spector only shot someone once too, just gonna put that out there

it true we shd prob refer to drays repeat behavior as nut hunting

exactly

dray is better but that doesn't excuse his nut hunting

put draymond on an average team and ppl would talk about him roughly like how they talk about steven adams.

― call all destroyer, Friday, February 24, 2017 12:04 PM (fifty-nine minutes ago) Bookmark

this is crazy

draymond is no offensive superstar but he has a serviceable three point shot and is one of the best playmaking bigs in the game

klay is elite at one of the most important skills in the NBA but i agree that on a middling team he'd be mostly empty points, gimme dray's all around game and crazy intensity

if anyone is a system player it is he. the warriors system works because of drays versatility not the other way around

― k3vin k., Friday, February 24, 2017 12:08 PM (fifty-nine minutes ago) Bookmark

i agree with this

his playmaking is good but no one wld be talking abt it if he wasnt playing with guys who constantly create the halfcourt fast break, like he cant take advantage of ppl going under on the pnr cause hes not a good enough shooter etc, hed have 4-5 assists a game on a normal team, and lets be clear on his scoring hes shooting 43% and scoring 10 a game in a situation where he gets more open looks than anyone else in the entire nba, hes is bad at doing points

if anyone is a system player it is he. the warriors system works because of drays versatility not the other way around

― k3vin k., Friday, February 24, 2017 12:08 PM (fifty-nine minutes ago) Bookmark

i agree with this

― J0rdan S., Friday, February 24, 2017 1:08 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the warriors shd be given credit for coming up with a great system for their players, the difference between the jackson years and now is lol, but there are a lot of players that cld work in drays spot the system wld just have to shift, which isnt that hard to do when you have the talent they do

there are more players like klay in the NBA than there are like draymond

only a very handful of guys who can shoot like klay, which is the single most valuable basketball skill

and besides basketball isnt decided on scarcity, its decided on being good at basketball

idk we can do the "on a bad team" thing all day, if draymond is on a bad team he's putting up like a 13/8/4 with lousy shooting percentages. he plays great in their system but his teammates are literally the best shooters in the league so i'm not sure how much he's elevating them further.

i think we can all agree that most of his value is on the other side of the ball regardless, hes great at lots of different defensive things

it's true he's one of the best defenders in the NBA

he is insanely good and versatile at D, maybe the most versatile defender since kg?

yeah can't think of too many guys since who were unmovable on the block and also a terror while on the move

his playmaking is good but no one wld be talking abt it if he wasnt playing with guys who constantly create the halfcourt fast break, like he cant take advantage of ppl going under on the pnr cause hes not a good enough shooter etc, hed have 4-5 assists a game on a normal team, and lets be clear on his scoring hes shooting 43% and scoring 10 a game in a situation where he gets more open looks than anyone else in the entire nba, hes is bad at doing points

― lag∞n, Friday, February 24, 2017 1:11 PM (four hours ago)

his usage is like 15% because he plays on the same team as the 2 best offensive players in the NBA, come on

if anyone is a system player it is he. the warriors system works because of drays versatility not the other way around

― k3vin k., Friday, February 24, 2017 12:08 PM (fifty-nine minutes ago) Bookmark

i agree with this

― J0rdan S., Friday, February 24, 2017 1:08 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the warriors shd be given credit for coming up with a great system for their players, the difference between the jackson years and now is lol, but there are a lot of players that cld work in drays spot the system wld just have to shift, which isnt that hard to do when you have the talent they do

― lag∞n, Friday, February 24, 2017 1:13 PM (four hours ago)

omg you might have heard of this thing called the death lineup for which he is the centerpiece

lol he is not

without dray that lineup gives up approximately one million points per possession

well yeah playing 4 on 5 is never gonna work

oh you

lol

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

imo if you put klay on a bad team he puts up an empty 24-25 ppg. if anyone is a system player it is he. the warriors system works because of drays versatility not the other way around

I don't think "he would just average 25 ppg" is a strong argument that someone is a system player

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

lol

bad results!!

is results the name of your dog?

im with k3vin on this one

it is quite possible that many ilh voters mistakenly believed they were voting for beloved poster me, thus skewing the results

i know i did

i thought i was voting for pottery

I voted for Klay to revolt against the elites

ugh so mad at you

http://a1.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2017%2F0316%2Fr191066_1296x864_3%2D2.jpg&w=360&h=240&scale=crop&cquality=40&location=center

something for everyone here

“You know what, Steph Curry has took a step back,” Rodman said. “And it’s cool. It’s actually cool because if you see his game now, I always said with that Golden State team, I always say one thing: that one player is the player right there that makes that team. Who is that player?…

“That is right there: Thompson,” Rodman said. “That kid right there is good. If he went to another team, he’d suck. What I’m saying is that Klay Thompson makes that team. Everybody’s always worried about Curry. I know Curry’s dad and all that bulls—. But Klay Thompson makes that team. It ain’t Green, that guy, no. It’s Klay Thompson.”

perfect answer to a dumb question

Perfect

Klay & Dray pic.twitter.com/pIdXqXVcc4

— Jack Perkins (@purehoop) June 19, 2022

Klay lost his championship hat while boating to the parade 😭pic.twitter.com/8UJ6f5r4sS

— Warriors on NBCS (@NBCSWarriors) June 20, 2022

LMAO KLAY pic.twitter.com/U8XNnaLkER

— Chris Montano (@gswchris) June 20, 2022

careful with those ACLs man

I suspect Klay was using a performance decreasing drug

did he stage losing the champs hat just so he could wear his sailor hat to the parade

hah i think so

Dying.

"Real mature, Draymond"

Steph and Dray were losing it while Klay had the mic 🤣 pic.twitter.com/Ym1h27836u

— Warriors on NBCS (@NBCSWarriors) June 20, 2022

https://sports.yahoo.com/how-draymond-green-cj-mccollum-navigate-the-double-dipping-player-media-dynamic-200541988.html

McCollum, a journalism major, felt a responsibility to inform Green of his Finals prediction in person rather than the forward being surprised to learn McCollum’s position on national television.

Being a bystander amid the conversation, McCollum and Green allowed Yahoo Sports to publish the details of their conversation.

“I’ve got to tell you this. I picked Boston to win Game 3, I picked you guys to win Game 4. But ultimately, I’ve got the Celtics winning the Finals,” McCollum told Green. “I just want you to hear it from me first before you hear me say it on TV.”

Green, without hesitation, responded, “That’s fine. Those Celtics will still be ringless just like you. Respect.”

while I think the basketball part of this question is pretty settled (in favor of dray), klay definitely wins the wkiw battle

Klay just demolished this beer at the Giants-Dodgers game 😂 pic.twitter.com/20e49t3mOM

— NBC Sports Bay Area & CA (@NBCSAuthentic) July 24, 2022

We are the same fr pic.twitter.com/0L2PbqM8iK

— villalobos (@RamonVillalobos) December 16, 2022

Took me way too many takes to understand what actually happened in this shot

Give Dray the max now! 🤣 pic.twitter.com/rUcosSaMCe

— ²³ (@PlayoffDraymond) January 28, 2023

that’s trippy

did we ever figure this one out?

both going through a rough patch

Pretty clear say is the 2nd best player on the team now (when he’s available)

total value the past 10 years not even close imo from outsider perspective

well you like rudy gobert

oh come on man lol

something to think about

I’m sorry who is putting klay over dray when it is all said and done apart from various grudge holding francophones I shallnt hear it

francophobes****

Dray delivers a lot of solid defense, plenty of ugly nut hunting, flops, technical fouls and childish jawing, very competent passing and rebounding, minimal points scored, and frequent suspensions. What you see is what you get. He's disruptive in both the good and bad sense.

i mean we could just review the thread instead of posting the same arguments again but on any team but the steph klay warriors dray wouldve been a huge offensive liability, a pure defensive specialist, granted the best defender around many years, but still he got very lucky if he had spent his career on normal teams he would be thought of radically different than he is now

and thats not even getting into all the extracurricular stuff like recruiting kd

it’s not just that he was a defensive specialist (and it seems worth pointing out, probably one of the 3 most important defenders of his generation), but he was also such an important connector on offense esp in an era where such skills were less commonplace. that’s not to say he didn’t need great offensive teammates to unlock his full potential but contrast that with klay who was more of a straightforward “piece” (tho obv at his best an elite one) rather than a foundational mold-breaking dude

he was a great connector because he played with a guy who was consistently trapped high meaning dray was consistently operating with an advantage, connecting skills in a normal halfcourt set up where everyone is being guarded when a guy (dray) is just no threat to score from anywhere arent that valuable

i invite you to peruse his numbers from the year steph missed, theyre not great

i think it’s true that klay’s game would more easily adapt to different situations… he has prob one of the most complimentary skillsets/playing styles you could imagine

but i’m of the opinion that the steph & dray offensive combo is more so what makes the warriors sui generis than the steph & klay combo. i think you could very easily take the other side of the argument! but i think the chemistry between steph & dray is what makes the warriors offense — i think steph hits all the same individual accolades as a player if draymond ends up on a different team but i don’t think he hits nearly the same team accolades. and i think you could have taken klay off the warriors and maybe found a player who got you to 90% of his contributions, i think it would have been harder to find a replacement for peak draymond, bcuz of how much of his play with steph is just mindmeld type stuff, and how much his defense powered their offense in those years in terms of getting out on the fast break and avalanching teams. maybe you can find another great small ball 5 defender (tho prob not!) but i just buy into the idea that there is something about him & steph that is just him & steph

so in a sense you’re both making correct points. i think in this poll, my understanding of it, i’m voting (i voted?) DRAY

i think dray absolutely fit beautifully with this warriors team, and that does include klay, but i also think you could build a million different great teams of all different configurations around steph, one reason dray really takes steph to the next level with this team is theyve always been short on ball handling and playmaking and dray provides that

of course one of the reasons they were short on ball handling and play making is klay does not dribble or pass

can i say one of the things that annoys me with the canonization of dray is people are always talking about the grabbing and going and say how many teams have a center who can do that, and they say that about a lot of the stuff he does, but dray has spent the great majority of his career playing the four, and the reason for that is he couldnt hold up as a full time center

not that many true 4s doing that either!

its a lot more than centers, i mean no ones saying whos got a four who can do that because then youd have to list a bunch of teams and the point wouldnt really land, which is why they say center

if we're talking about who's more essential to the dubs dynasty i think the answer is dray based on all the otm stuff jordan said a few posts ago.

the original q of this thread was "who is better at basketball" which sounds more like a simmonsy where do they rank in the pantheon kind of thing tho, and to that i can't help but feel like dray's career ended up being his absolute best case scenario, whereas we'll never really know how klay would have developed as a player if he had had to be the guy. not saying the klay we ended up with wasn't the perfect match for his role, but i can imagine his game developing differently and his racking up more individual type accolades if he hadn't playing next to steph, maybe was instead paired with a conventional all star big man like lamarcus aldridge or something

idk i think one of the things that makes the question interesting is klay also benefited from being on the warriors i mean what does a shooter want but open shots, in conclusion the answer to dray vs kay is steph

can't argue with that

i think klay is prob a better basketball player but i also think klay’s skills are very identifiable — quick release, perfect form, ability to shoot at crazy angles, could put it on the floor in his prime. even on defense, what he did — guard the best perimeter player — was very central to the action occupying the eye.

with dray some of his skills are like that, like when he runs the break as a big, his passing, his chemistry with steph would be apparent to even a novice. but a lot of what he does especially on defense is him having a very sharp basketball mind, not rim protection or locking down the no 1 man or whatever. it’s entirely possible he’s the better basketball player than klay

They're both Brock Purdy and Steph is Shanahan. System players.

Come on, they've had individual and team performances that are all time. Dray's game 7 performance in the 2016 finals says everything about him. He's the ultimate team player and when motivated would have been an elite piece on any team. His superpower is his drive and pettiness.

As well as intelligence. The only way he's a "bust" is if some completely incompetent coaching missed his potential.

By bust I mean "average" or an afterthought of a player. As a second rounder, any value is a win.

Still love Dray's hatred for Dillon Brooks: https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/nba/golden-state-warriors/draymond-green-dillon-brooks-rockets-playoffs/1848216/

i have my issues with dray but he is correct to hate brooks and gobert

Dray does much questionable stuff on the court but generally pretty otm about who he respects and doesn’t. Also he’s a good sport in losing and gives lots of love and complements to players around the league. His interview after game 6 was interesting, admitting he lost his cool and hadn’t been himself all series. Had a team meeting and owned up to it all. Then played easily his best game when it mattered most. Eternally interesting guy, one day introspective and self realized then the next doing something new and dumb. and because of how hated he is will probably never really be rated correctly by fans. Guy at work yesterday was telling me he’s the worst player in the league and doesn’t understand how he’s still in the league and starting. I really wasn’t sure what to do with that.

A lot of people just ballwatch

discussing dray's value as a basketball player is one of the easiest ways to filter out casuals

voters in this poll excepted!

iirc this poll was initiated immediately after a flurry of Dray's flailing-leg nut-kicking, which may have tended to skew the results against him a bit

Dray is a throwback to the enforcer/bodyguard types, for example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQb8dK4MC-E