worst-run NBA franchise as of the 2022 offseason

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my initial thinking is that washington, charlotte, and sac are the serious contenders, and the lakers are the dark horse.

there's some strong newcomers but i think it's still the kings for now

wolves deserve consideration

the charlotte coach thing was a disaster and there's this feeling about them that they just never learn

voted kings.

last time they drafted someone who became an all-star was demarcus cousins (2010). they have had top 12 picks ever year since 2007 save 2019. that pick was traded as part of a salary dump in order to make a run on free agents when they signed rondo, marco belinelli, kosta koufos, seth curry, among others. they finished 10th. from that same trade, they also had to swap picks with the 6ers who ended up with #3 (eventually tatum). but hey, deaaron fox is p good.

theyve passed on generational talent, and then when they walked backwards into a great player (halliburton) they trade him to once again pursue a "win-now" strategy that will probably end with them finishing 10th again and extending their playoff futility streak to 17 straight yeats. an absolutely cursed franchise that desperately needs to relocate, change its name, gets its fingerprints sandpapered off, etc. maybe go back to the rochester royals, they did after all win the 1951 nba title back then.

You make an excellent case, monsieur bison.

i'd be a bad fan if i didn't vote for the knicks here

The knicks have massive natural advantages over 90% of the franchises so it's crazy how directionless and mediocre they've been since Riley left. But Sacto's dysfunction is 'turtles all the way down'.

Don’t sleep on the Pistons here. They paid Jerami Grant 40 million dollars and then traded him to move from the 46th pick to the 36th.

pistons drafting the last couple of years is too competent, feels like theyre on the right track

they also got a bucks first and two other second round picks for grant… but ok

we could talk about how they gave marvin bagley 3/37 tho

not the worst in THIS economy, that woulda been a 3/18 in 2015

yeah but he’s actively bad

the pistons have done some weird stuff no doubt and bcuz of the van gundy era/blake griffin deal you could totally throw them in here. but the draft has fallen their way the last few years so they’ll prob end up ok

troy weaver has some weird player evaluations but they seem like they're on the upswing for now

Ah shit i misread the title as “worst run of the 2022 offseason,” as in solely based on the last month. Pleas consider a Charlotte vote to in fact be for the Kangz

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

i think it has to be the kings, although maybe they outfoxed the league on the keegan murray thing. but they've made a bunch of moves and if they even get out of the play in this year it would feel like a miracle. the sheer amount of dysfunction and losing across two decades now is just staggering across sports let alone the NBA

i think my second choice would have to be between the t wolves and wizards? we could have a long debate over which offseason move was more damaging to its franchise longterm between the gobert trade and the beal contract. the wolves haven't won a playoff series in 18 years and aside from lucking into the no 1 overall pick i have no idea what positive thing the franchise has done in that time period. i guess we give some credit for picking edwards since he wasn't a no doubt no 1 pick, but then the guy who picked him got fired for having an affair w/ someone in the office. and their new owner is a rod. i guess they might win a first round series this year but it's far from guaranteed & they mortgaged potentially 10 years of the franchise to make it happen. then again i'm not sure a single good thing could be said about ted leonsis, their drafting has been horrible, the beal contract is a nightmare, the franchise is fucked philosophically on a base level because of the owner. i really could go either way

hornets and knicks would prob round out my top 5

They drafted KAT over Okafer

They hired a coach who doubled their win total with essentially the same roster

the anti-all-nba. the no-nba if u will.

xp

They made the playoffs for the second time in forever

They were fun to watch

i ended up voting wolves. the history of horrendous is too deep and too rich. the 2009 draft alone...

i think i would've taken the wolves out of consideration for this given last season but they made a trade so insane that it has singlehandedly screeched the NBA trade market to a halt. that has to put them right back in the mix

i think i'm going wizards. this offseason is just too catastrophic, a culmination of their incredibly stupid approach to running a basketball team.

that's completely defensible

a huge upset that the cavs have fallen outside of the top 5 here, tho i think i'd rank them number 6. but still -- progress!

cavs look good for the future and they cd sign bron again next year, good 4 them

it seems like gilbert's health stuff has taken him away from the franchise and prob brought some stability there. their track record outside of being gifted the presence of lebron was as poor as any of these teams until basically last season. i still don't trust koby altman but the garland and mobley picks have them set up to be firmly outside of trainwreck status for a decent while prob

honestly theres ~five defensible choices here.

yeah i don't trust the cavs overall but drafting garland and mobley and getting jarrett allen for nothing is an undeniably nice run.

Yah they seem to be set up for a nice future.

I really like the lakers as a choice here too. A bit Hard to include them cos the fact they’re in southern CA and have the clout so they’ll always have stars to bail them out. but it’s easy to forget the magic fiasco was just a short while ago. And the rwb signing.

yeah for sure. there's no real qualifications for running a basketball franchise -- or doing it well, anyway -- but when you have someone in the job who is there only via inheritance that's a major red flag. they lucked into a title by trading a bunch of shit for davis and most crucially catching the league in a weird year -- the warriors decimated by injuries, KD was out that entire year, kawhi had switched teams taking the defending champs out of contention -- but outside of that one season it's basically been constant drama and really poor seasons. i mean, to miss the playoffs 2 out of 3 years with lebron on your team should basically be an automatic inclusion in this discussion

the lakers definitely have a case. because they're such a weird organization, they've actually done well with some low-end draft pick and player development stuff, while also making huge mistakes everywhere else.

If the Lakers franchise has a shot, then the Noel>Okafor>Simmons>Fultz>Colangelo's Burner>Zhaire Smith/Mikal Bridges gives the Sixers a shot.

Rough… but being in contention with embiid in the roster kinda masks a lot of that

tbh you could argue for the sixers to be in the bottom 10… even after all the hinkie bullshit mentioned above they ran a no 1 pick out of town and had to attach two firsts and one of their best role players to take back a “star” who might singlehandedly tank embiid’s prime. we’re two seasons away from embiid entering his 30s without ever appearing in a conference finals game which would make a great case for the sixers being high up in this discussion. and there’s no way anyone would put them in the top 2 of the east heading into the year

Also the whole Jimmy butler thing

you guys are being pretty harsh toward a franchise that won the title just two years ago and five more since 2000

are they fucked now? very possibly, but banners hang forever. can’t believe you’re putting them in the same conversation with the kings or wizards

well if we’re being honest they won the title two years ago bcuz they were in the city of LA and lebron wanted to live there for lifestyle/business reasons and then his agent/business partner forced his star client to their team via trade. if there was ever a title where you could give the franchise little to no credit, it’s that one (and lebron’s title in cleveland, lol). they’re def not in the same tier as the wizards or kings but the constant drama out of there and stuff that trickles out from time to time about how jeanie buss runs things is really unflattering. their GM’s main qualification for the job was having been kobe’s agent. i think if you were gonna list out qualities of successful franchises the lakers of the last 10 years would tick very few of those boxes they just… happen to be the lakers.

this woj column from 2008 on the disbelief across the league over what the lakers were allowed to trade for pau gasol is a good re-read… shit like this has been keeping them afloat for a long ass time now

https://news.yahoo.com/memphis-owner-now-questions-value-184500409--nba.html

lakers are the only team left that isnt owned by some hedge fund guy and its starting to show, theyre just not as professional as the rest of the league, they are still the lakers tho

i think i would've taken the wolves out of consideration for this given last season but they made a trade so insane that it has singlehandedly screeched the NBA trade market to a halt. that has to put them right back in the mix

― J0rdan S., Monday, July 18, 2022 8:43 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

yeah i voted wolves just because they traded seven picks for the lamest player in the league, the real answer is prob the kings tho

Permission requested to add the Phoenix suns into bottom ten consideration

Goran Dragic reveals that Suns owner Robert Sarver was “happy” he didn’t make the All-Star game in 2013-2014:

Sarver came to Dragic in the gym after hearing the news and told him he was “glad” he now didn’t have to pay him his $1M ASG bonus.

(via Frojlke z Googyem Pod) pic.twitter.com/NJvOQLvuIY

— ProCity Hoops (@ProCityHoops) July 19, 2022

Permission requested to add the Phoenix suns into bottom ten consideration

Goran Dragic reveals that Suns owner Robert Sarver was “happy” he didn’t make the All-Star game in 2013-2014:

Sarver came to Dragic in the gym after hearing the news and told him he was “glad” he now didn’t have to pay him his $1M ASG bonus.

(via Frojlke z Googyem Pod) pic.twitter.com/NJvOQLvuIY

— ProCity Hoops (@ProCityHoops) July 19, 2022

typical shit that bosses think is a funny joke

suns really should be on here as long as sarver is the owner.. which may come to an end soon? is that ever gonna get resolved?

speaking of the wizards. from hollinger's summer league write up...

Johnny Davis, Washington: Look, I was down on him heading into the draft, but I wasn’t this down on him. Davis played three games for the Wizards and never got going, shooting 8 of 27 and making a limited impact in the other box score categories. Washington had him mostly playing off the ball, which also was how he played at Wisconsin, but it was odd to see how uninvolved he was given the lottery pick investment in him. Overall, his 4.9 PER was the third-worst of any draftee in summer league, and the other two weren’t lottery picks.

The greater question resulting from his performance is the one of what his differentiating skill is at the pro level. He can jump and defend but he doesn’t have a point guard’s handle, is not a knockdown 3-point shooter and the midrangers he subsisted on in college are much tougher looks against NBA length. Perhaps his struggles in Vegas only end up as a mere blip, but perhaps it’s a sign of something more serious.

wizards first round picks since bradley beal:

otto porter
jerian grant
troy brown jr
rui hachimura
deni avdija
corey kispert

oof

thats not good

washington wound up with kelly oubre in the jerian grant year

not a major difference maker, but he's prob the second-best player out of that bunch lol

and he was better at prob every other stop after that (warriors aside)

after watching him for a full season i can safely say oubre is a net negative player. but yeah still the 2nd best on there.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

the once and future kings

lol at whoever voted celtics tho

solid bottom 6 there

This is wild. 😳

(h/t @ClutchPointsApp) pic.twitter.com/muSmsgYZJZ

— Hoop Central (@TheHoopCentral) July 20, 2022

Incredible

wha lol

hornets been running away with this over the last year. i think theyve taken the title back as the original winner:

As of July 2019, which is the historically worst NBA franchise?

kings, knicks, and even the wolves have turned it around a bit. ant doing a lot of heavy lifting for the wolves but he cant be ignored.

meant to post this at the end of that:

I have officially requested to be traded from the Charlotte Hornets. #GOATLIFE

— Kai Jones (@242_jones) October 9, 2023

it's almost a retroactive argument since both ownership groups have changed but i wouldn't count the wolves out of this discussion just yet...

goat life

it's almost a retroactive argument since both ownership groups have changed but i wouldn't count the wolves out of this discussion just yet...

xp not really the right thread for it but i wasn't really grokking this whole kai jones situation so i took a look at his twitter, dude seems very clearly to be going through a serious mental health challenge, possibly exacerbated by being very online. there are pics where he's written things like goat life all over the walls of his house. sad shit

i mean to be clear i'm not ruling out the role that playing for the charlotte hornets can play in a mental health crisis

yeah he's in a really tough spot

Oh all I saw was the trade request. Hope he gets help

might need to do a new poll. our top three have turned things around a bit. think the current rankings would be:

1 - Wizards
2 - Pistons
3 - Hornets
4 - Nets
5 - Blazers

oh idk man, it feels like the pistons are the 73 win warriors of this poll right now

yeah it’s pistons then a giant gap then everyone else

kudos to the past winners for finding success so quickly

pistons at least have some interesting players in ivey, cade and duren. the wizards have no young players and are locked in with poole and kuzma.

plus, it needs to be noted that the pistons and wizards have the same amount of losses at this moment (48) and the wizards have lost 11 in a row.

plus ausar

kings was offtm here whoops. pistons, wiz, hornets are the clear top 3 right now

the hornets are off the board for me because they just changed ownership and did make some good trades at the deadline. MJ may have also gotten the miller pick right on the way out the door

the wiz also have a new front office that hasn't done much yet so i'm putting them to the side. taking on the poole contract was a bad idea, though

1. pistons

don't think much needs to be said here. the GM has made a number of mind boggling decisions. the decisions they have gotten right are being undermined by the coach. spottie is right that they have more talent than some of these other teams, but that's a different question than who is being run the worst. cade for one was just the lottery balls hitting right. the GM/coach combo here is catastrophic.

2. bulls

i mean, wow. the ownership seems as bad as any other coach or owner on this list, they should potentially be first. at least the pistons owner was willing to spend $85 million on a coach, even if he picked the wrong one. the bulls seem obstinately focused on making the first round of the playoffs, and their GM is so bad that they may not accomplish even that for two seasons in a row. basically everything that has happened here has been bad, signing derozan and caruso stick out as good moves, caruso in particular. but of course they've refused to cash him in. the GM's quotes after the deadline in particular made one question whether there is an alternate reality that others may be experiencing. i don't think there's a single fanbase that more loathes their franchise than this one.

3. nets

it feels like they have been driven straight into a ditch. the KD and kyrie trades were both heists but it already feels like the potential of those trades has gone unfulfilled, which shouldn't be the case. it's inconceivable they didn't trade bridges and/or finney smith at the deadline, it's not like they're winning games. taking on ben simmons and apparently actually depending on him to some degree, good god. maybe they bite the bullet in the offseason on some of those guys in which case i'd prob take them off this list, but as long as they're attempting whatever this is they have to be up here.

4. raptors

that flag will fly forever for masai but their last several years have been extremely baffling, i don't think i agreed w/ taking back quickley and barrett in the OG trade instead of hunting for picks. their roster is young but not really that young. they don't seem to be rebuilding, but it's also hard to see how they get above play in territory for the next few seasons. the poetl thing. not getting anything for FVV. lots of stuff that seemed bad at the time and isn't looking any better.

5. hawks

i'm sensing a pattern here. i mean, going back to passing on luka... it's worth remembering their prize for that was *one* top 5 protected first round pick -- !!! ONE !!! -- which they used on cam reddish. the de'andre hunter fiasco from trade to contract. john collins. there is of course some good stuff in here, bogdanovic altho his knees give out in the playoffs, okongwu pick and contract was nice. jalen johnson looking nice. but this is still a bottom 10 team by winning % this year and it's not looking like the murray trade is working nor can they apparently recoup the value on him, at least at the moment. what is the avenue for this team getting significantly better in the next 5 years? even in a scenario where they trade trae, dejounte murray as your best player = rebuild land. we have no idea if landry fields is a good GM but i'm not optimistic.

my no 6 would be portland but i'm willing to give cronin some more time, parts of the dame trade were smart. would prob put dallas 7

the pistons have done some weird stuff no doubt and bcuz of the van gundy era/blake griffin deal you could totally throw them in here. but the draft has fallen their way the last few years so they’ll prob end up ok

― J0rdan S., Thursday, July 7, 2022 1:56 PM (one year ago)

"one year ago"

tough out there

that's a pretty good list. the nets and more so the raptors are in a strange place where they were considered some of the smarter teams, and now have both unclear strategic direction as well as discrete moves that were just objectively bad moves.

becoming a poorly run franchise happens slowly, then all at once

oh i didnt realize the wiz had a new FO

yeah michael winger from the clippers braintrust is overseeing the teardown there.

pistons owning the absurdly bad moves signifiers like drafting killian hayes then giving monty a huge contract then having to release hayes so monty will stop playing him

They also traded a rotation wing that they drafted (bey) for wiseman

they did the same thing with marvin bagley III. traded stuff nobody else would trade to get him, signed him to an extension nobody else would give him, and then had to unload two seconds to the wizards to move off the money (for what purpose only god knows)

Yep when they already had duren, wiseman and beef stew lol