G.O.A.T Rebounder

fun fact: Wilt always said he was prouder of grabbing 55 boards in that game than putting up 100pts.

As he should be. Snagging 55 rebounds in one game! Incroyable!

Lakers lead NBA this year in rebounding. 46.1/game.

Wilt is Wilt and Russell is Russell, but I voted Rodman. Wilt and Russell's era featured more shots at lower percentages, so they had a bunch more rebound opportunities per game (not that they are anything less than all-time great rebounders, just their raw total numbers are inflated compared to modern totals). Rodman takes a hit because he wasn't starting full-time until he was 29 and was essentially done by 36, and even his eight years starting is shot full of holes due to injury. Just going by per minute rebounding though I would seriously doubt you could get any better than Rodman.

He gets bonus points for being #1 all-time in reb% despite being 6'7", 210.

^co-sign, though I would like to hear people make cases for Russell, Wilt, or anyone else who was before my time (Jerry Lucas was 6'9", avg'd 15+ for his career, had 40 in a game. I never even hear him mentioned, like, ever. ESPN Classic has let me down.) But imo, for rebounding talent + rebounding desire (he so obv loved doing it, to the detriment of other facets of his game), Rodman wins. He routinely got balls that he just shouldn't have been able to get, tipping them once, twice, three, four times to himself cause that was the only way.

I thought about including the Big O on the list, because avg'ing 10+ for a season from the guard position is just obscene, but he was so good all around that it didn't seem fair to put him in a contest he wouldn't win.

btw Lucas had that game of 40 in his rookie year wow. haha he's white btw.

via Truehoop

Marcus Camby played 8.75% of the total player minutes (42 out of 480), but got 29% of the total rebounds (27 out of 94) in the Clippers vs. Bulls game last night. That's not common at all.

^resulted in my repeated appeals to "PUT A BODY ON CAMBY, YOU SHMUCKS"

http://images.barnesandnoble.com/images/8720000/8729681.jpg

Rodman gets my vote too. That dude's instincts were just amazing and unlike Wilt and Russell he didn't pull down all those boards playing against guys who were much shorter than him.

Excluding Rodman and sticking to guys who I like actually saw, Moses was seriously amazing in his prime.

The worst rebounder I've ever seen is Eddy Curry.

I was going to retort with Hilton Armstrong but wouldn't ya know it Curry can't even out-board Armstrong. Yee-ouch.

Curry has an unbeatable combination of size, strength, and pathetic softness.

Curry is amazing. How many other people have made it to the NBA with virtually no desire to play basketball? When he was in HS, Chicago cable had a series following him and 2 other local prospects. By the end of it I felt sorry for him: he was the circus elephant. Eat this, go to practice now, perform feats of strength, here's some peanuts, good job.

http://www.scottsdalecards.com/catalog/images/71tlucas116.jpg

HELLZ YEAH

A++++ fonts
A++++ jersey with chest hair combo

i saw that miniseries about curry in high school, he seemed like a good kid but real lazy. i forgot the other ballers, his was the best story

i think he just has a really slow metabolism. other dude i remember is kyle kleckner from downers grove, who i just googled and came up with this: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0309202/

Dockery is the screaming vocalist for Broken Arrow, a Christian screamo band he formed with NFL wide receiver Jabar Gaffney, who is the lead guitarist and clean vocalist.

anyone doesnt vote rodman doesnt know wtf they talking abt

like they way he rund too

http://www.nbaloud.com/images/dennis-rodman1.gif

like a egomaniacal gay-zelle

he was FAST. was watching an old bulls game a couple years ago and had to rewind (twice) to appreciate him grabbing board, outletting to a guard, and then beating EVERYONE down the court and receiving a pass for an easy dunk. it was boltesque. seriously.

btw all gazelles are egomaniacal, let's be frank

Dockery is the screaming vocalist for Broken Arrow, a Christian screamo band he formed with NFL wide receiver Jabar Gaffney, who is the lead guitarist and clean vocalist.

― expletive for lady parts (Granny Dainger), Saturday, December 20, 2008 9:20 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

wtf

this is wiki vandalism rite? not real?

Yup--the title given for the album is the name of an Underoath record.

I voted for Russell. imo, he well deserves it.

Unlike Chamberlain, he was only about 6'9" and very often played against players who were taller than he was - like Nate Thurmond - who grabbed 7,000 fewer. Nor was he a wide body like the Round Mound of Rebound, who grabbed 9,000 fewer. Yet, he still grabbed 4,000 more than Abdul-Jabbar and 5,000 more than Malone. Give the man his due. He is the GOAT.

22.50 rpg, career. 6'9"
22.50 rpg, career. 6'9"
22.50 rpg, career. 6'9"
22.50 rpg, career. 6'9"
22.50 rpg, career. 6'9"
22.50 rpg, career. 6'9"
22.50 rpg, career. 6'9"
22.50 rpg, career. 6'9"
22.50 rpg, career. 6'9"

def took a dip as he aged. only averaged 19.3 at age 35, his last year, a career low.

hay rodman grabbed the highest percentage of missed shots of anyone ever and hes only 6'8"

voted for

http://www.bullsbrasil.kit.net/rodman_dive_600.jpg

rodman was a beast the two seasons he played in sa town, loved that the spurs basically traded him for socks (will purdue) because they couldn't take his antics but it was like, wtf was he doing besides coloring his hair a lot at the time?? he wasn't kicking camermen at the time or anything, i think he was just dating madonna some (lol only excuse madonna would ever have to come to san antonio, prolly...what is it with this broad and dating athletes anyway). spurs best d-rob at the wheel season was 94-95, rodman and sean elliot and aj and chuck person, damn that team was smooth. too bad about that whole blowing it in the playoffs thing.

hay ice cream rebound rate wasn't calculated before '71 so where you getting that from?

hes got the best rebound rate since its been calculated :/

im sure theres some back of the envelope shit thatll basically tell u rodman ownd even dudes who played in chuck taylors and shot their free throws through their legs - i mean maybe there was some guy back in springfield that could really pull em down too or whatever

regardless anyone who thinks pre bird/magic nba was anything approaching what we got today is straight retard - srsly watch one of those old games and try to imagine those dudes competing today lol - it was a niche sport w/its finals famously tape delayed - the boston garden home of the team that won every time didnt even sell out - no one gave a shit - there was no development - its like american soccer today or something

Still, you look at dudes like Wilt and Russell and you know that with modern techniques (eating, weight training, etc.), they would've been great players. How good would Rodman be under the conditions those dudes played in?

imagine dudes from 35+ yrs ago in any sport try competing today. you can only judge them on how much they dominated their era.
don't know if it's to be trusted but some guy here (in the comments) calculated russell's reb rate to be 20.3, which is lower than the worm's 23.4

not only modern techniques but they would've benefited by the successive groundwork layed by those before them and by playing and developing their whole lives with others who likewise benefited from those who went before. i mean lol isaac newton what a joke he didn't even know about quantum mechanics right?

can you imagine newton trying to work at fermilab?

its worth considering that the pool nba talent was drawing from back in the day just wasnt nearly as greatas todays - waaaay more people play basketball now then did then - its like when people call michael phelps the greatest olympian ever and yr like o plz r u serious who the fuck even swims

which is not to say that there arent dudes that couldve translated between eras - its just imo dubious to assume they would be just as great if given the advantages of todays players

dennis rodman is definitely a better rbounder than phelps

i hear ya and i don't 100% disagree with you, but the nba was still where all the best of the sport of the day played. Which can't be said about MLS. What makes it truly impossible to compare players of dif generations and makes your 'talent pool' point have an even bigger impact is having segregation like you did with Ruth and baseball.

yah basically i look at that old footage and just lol - i really hav not much interest in those dudes tbh

it does make you understand why people lost their minds when people like maravich and dr j came on the scene

yah those guys and the iceman etc were def the precursors to when shit really started jumping off in the 80s

Don't give a shit how many titles against a thin talent pool the Celtics won, how many times the Garden sold out, don't care how taped delayed the finals might have been, you'll never convince me a guy this fuckin raw wouldn't have been a force any era.

i know celtics fans arent supposed to say this but bill russell is an all time humorless overrated egomaniac - fuk sports hagiography banner counting and all sorts back in the day bullshit ill leave that for tedious yankee fans - and yah i do think hed have a hard time dominating on D at 6'9" - unless were talking abt the kind of dominating that involves giving up 50ppg to wilt

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

unless were talking abt the kind of dominating that involves giving up 50ppg to wilt

O RLY?

Bill Russell earned a ringing endorsement from Warren Oates in Alfredo Garcia, I have to side with him here.

oates dont mix w/pasta sauce anyone can tell u that

i looked around for the head to head russell/wilt stats and couldnt find them - i remember seeing them before tho and wilt just killed him - of course they didnt double team back then which is yet another lol abt the era

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

"i remember seeing them before tho and wilt just killed him"

Uh no. I mean Chamberlain def. scored less against him in the playoffs and they both rebounded more. It be interesting to see how advanced metrics would score those games now. That said most people who watched those games don't think that Wilt killed him (esp. since Russell won what 7 game 7s against him?)

o jeez i didnt realize they were playing 1 on 1 - shape up alex in sf

heres hollinger calling russell overrated - i will repost in full as its behind the insider firewall

Why Russell wasn't the greatest

Thursday, March 8, 2007 | Feedback | Print Entry

Posted by John Hollinger
The gang at ESPN.com ranked their top all-time centers a few days ago, and since then I've received a lot of e-flak for putting Bill Russell seventh on my list.

To my surprise, Russell had the most first-place votes of anyone. I had expected him to be lower on my ballot than a lot of others, but I surmised nearly everyone would have Chamberlain, for instance, ahead of him.

I had thought the idea of Russell being on top was blown to smithereens 15 years ago when a Sports Illustrated article shattered the long-cherished idea that Russell had outplayed Wilt Chamberlain in their head-to-head matchups. Guess not.

So now I have even more explaining to do about why I ranked Russell behind not only Chamberlain, but also Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Wilt Chamberlain, Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson and Moses Malone. Russell won 11 championships in 13 years, after all, so certainly he was doing something right.

But if I had to boil down my reasoning, it would come down to two things: (1) teammates and (2) offense.

First, the teammates.

It's not quite accurate to say that "Russell won 11 titles in 13 seasons." He wasn't playing 1-on-5, folks.

Russell played alongside no fewer than eight Hall of Famers who were in their prime -- Sam Jones, Tom Heinsohn, Bill Sharman, John Havlicek, Bob Cousy, Frank Ramsey, Bailey Howell and K.C. Jones.

(OK, we'll set aside K.C. Jones since his selection was so preposterous -- he never averaged more than nine points a game and was basically a poor man's Eric Snow -- but the other seven were legitimately fantastic players in their time.)

Russell didn't have all seven at the same time, obviously, but he never had fewer than three at his side and in most years he had four or five.

Imagine for a moment a team with one of our other top centers in the middle and four Hall of Famers surrounding him, and the 11-in-13 thing seems a little less mystical.

Olajuwon, for instance, won a ring in 1994 without any other Hall of Famers on his squad, and that was in a 27-team league -- what might he have done with players like Heinsohn, Sharman, Ramsey and the Cooz as running mates and only seven other clubs to contend with?

The other thing you have to look at here is offense.

I'll accept without argument that Russell was the greatest defensive player of all time, both because I don't have any evidence to refute it and because the Celtics' defensive stats from that era, to the extent the league kept track of anything, do indeed appear excellent.

But how big a difference at the defensive end are we talking about between Russell and say, Olajuwon, Moses or Robinson? Enough to ignore the fact that those players doubled Russell's offensive output?

Check it out: Per 40 minutes Robinson averaged 24.3 points, Olajuwon 24.4, Moses 24.3, and Russell 14.3.

Once you adjust for the wildly faster pace in Russell's era -- teams averaged about 115 points per game during the 60s, compared to about 100 in the mid-90s -- you're looking at 12.4 for Russell, or about half of what Robinson and Olajuwon produced. It's not like Russell was doing this efficiently either -- he shot 44.0 percent for his career and 56.1 percent from the line.

Seen in that light, it's incredible that Russell was good enough defensively and on the boards to still merit the No. 7 spot on my ballot.

Yes, he came up big in the playoffs, and yes, his playing David to Chamberlain's Goliath was certainly inspiring.

But when I put his performance in context, I just can't place him ahead of six other players who, it seems to me, were clearly superior.

I had thought the idea of Russell being on top was blown to smithereens 15 years ago when a Sports Illustrated article shattered the long-cherished idea that Russell had outplayed Wilt Chamberlain in their head-to-head matchups. Guess not.

someone find this important information

"o jeez i didnt realize they were playing 1 on 1 - shape up alex in sf"

Uh I was responding to your point. And ynfortunately for Wilt they were not. I think the team results pretty much speak for themselves (and they tend to distort everything else which is how you get the vote Hollinger is bitching about.)

Anyway I'm not going to make a big rah rah Russell argument, because dude's career was finished before I was born and a few scratchy b&w games aside I've never seen him play. And as Hollinger says above the part of his game that is supposedly most impressive is pretty much unmeasurable. And Chamberlain was a complete freak no doubt about it so arguing against that dude being the greatest of all time seems futile (and he was in Conan the Destroyer!)

I can't find it now, but the other day I read that Wilt's ppg vs Russell was 28.3. Below his career avg, but you'd expect that against the best team in the league, even without a defensively dominant center.

less than 2ppg under his career average - did that include the playoffs?

okay this isn't the site i saw before: http://www.nba.com/encyclopedia/ryan_rivalries.html

28.7 ppg, 28.7 rpg

it isn't made clear, but looks like that includes playoffs. nba.com's site is such shit, in general.

Chamberlain averaged exactly 28.7 points and 28.7 rebounds a game during those 142 games, the point totals brought down a bit by his late-in-career transformation from relentless scoring machine to more well-rounded player. In the early years Wilt scored 50 or more points seven times against Russell, including a high of 62 on January 14, 1962. By the time we could start referring to these men as "aging warriors," the numbers were a bit more back to earth. Wilt's high game in their final year was 35, and three times he scored in single figures.

Russell's totals against Wilt were 14.5 points and 23.7 rebounds per game. His highest-scoring game against his arch rival was 37.

wonder how many games in his career Wilt failed to score double digits

i really don't see how anyone can argue russell was the better player without resorting to the "well whose teams won more? huh? yeah" bullshit.

prob more than youd think as at the end of his career he actually didnt score that much - which is why his career ppg is only 30.1 xp

(which reminds me of one of my favorite MJ quotes, when responding to the notion that Magic makes his teammates better but he doesn't: "pfft anyone can make people like Worthy better. I'd like to see him try making someone like Brad Sellers better". paraphrased heavily obv)

ok so maybe it'd be more useful to know how many single digit games he had while russell was still active.

lol jordan classic dik move

that was while he getting his ear pierced fyi

*was

"less than 2ppg under his career average - did that include the playoffs?"

Think it's actually 6ppg under the average for the part where their careers overlap.

u cannot make me do maths i will not bite

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200152

"I hope there's a jumpshot in there." - Michael to Stacey King who was walking into the locker room with a box

A+

XD

"If I were a general manager, we'd be a better team."

LOL

that one sort of bit him in the ass huh

"Why the hell don't you ever set a pick like that in a game?" - Michael yelling at Perdue after also hitting Perdue upside his head (led to the institution of the private curtain for practices)

"They don't need a ticket to watch you sitting on the bench. They can go to your house for that." - Michael to Charles Davis who was sorting through his tickets for his family and friends

;_;

TS: MJ vs Jeffrey Ross

hahahah mikes dickishness was way charminger when he wasnt an old fat depressio

when you're the best you can kinda say whatever you want, re: trashtalkin

He's a pretty funny guy actually. Totally delusional obv, but funny none-the-less.

does it count as trash talking when you're doing it to your teammates?

Haha good question!

"Will Vanderbilt. He doesn't deserve to be named after a Big Ten school." - Michael on Will Perdue