who are the biggest flukey QBs of all time, that had a few good years and then weren't shit after?
Scott Mitchell?
― real warm grandpa (Neanderthal), Monday, 9 October 2023 18:51 (eleven months ago) link
I was tempted to say Michael Vick, because I can't think of anyone with greater talent who flamed out so spectacularly, but his numbers in Philly after his suspension were actually better than they were in Atlanta.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Monday, 9 October 2023 19:05 (eleven months ago) link
lol yeah, he actually had a little bit of a renaissance for a bit
― real warm grandpa (Neanderthal), Monday, 9 October 2023 19:06 (eleven months ago) link
kind of a different situation though
I always think of Matt Flynn, who has 2 of the all-time best statistical games in Green Bay Packers history (throwing 6 TDs in one!), who was utterly garbage otherwise
but thats a very different thing as well. only one that comes to mind now is Nick Foles
― frogbs, Monday, 9 October 2023 19:10 (eleven months ago) link
xpost it is still amusing to me that "running QBs will be the thing of the future" was so believed by us all for so long despite the fact that so many of them got seriously hurt or easily defeated by defensive adjustments to take away the run because they weren't great pocket passers. and then we settled on "ok it's cool when you have QBs that can make plays with their feet but we're never going to see full-on college-style option offenses in the NFL".
for a few years Lamar Jackson actually looked like what our vision of the QB of the future back in 2001 looked like, he married the two better than anybody I'd ever seen. but now he's faded. Fields could maybe get there if he finds consistency.
― real warm grandpa (Neanderthal), Monday, 9 October 2023 19:12 (eleven months ago) link
really think we should seek to teach offensive lineman sized people how to play QB, have a QB that can't really run but nobody can tackle them either
― real warm grandpa (Neanderthal), Monday, 9 October 2023 19:14 (eleven months ago) link
for a minute it looked like Tebow was that sort of guy, he was pretty slow for a running QB but remarkably hard to take down
― frogbs, Monday, 9 October 2023 19:16 (eleven months ago) link
remarkably hard to stop laughing when he threw a pass, unfortunately
― real warm grandpa (Neanderthal), Monday, 9 October 2023 19:23 (eleven months ago) link
Flacco?
― symsymsym, Monday, 9 October 2023 20:47 (eleven months ago) link
ha yeah that's a pretty good one
― real warm grandpa (Neanderthal), Monday, 9 October 2023 20:50 (eleven months ago) link
we're definitely in lean quarterbacking years now, mostly due to the mass retirement of the last wave of QBs (debuting in late 20th-early 21st century). probably be another 4-5 years before we have another QB renaissance
― real warm grandpa (Neanderthal), Monday, 9 October 2023 20:53 (eleven months ago) link
Flacco had 7 decent years I think, maybe comprable to some of Brett Favre's less good seasons
― frogbs, Monday, 9 October 2023 20:57 (eleven months ago) link
the Elvis Grbac we never knew we wanted
― real warm grandpa (Neanderthal), Monday, 9 October 2023 21:00 (eleven months ago) link
RG3 was a phenom his rookie year, maybe one of the best QB seasons in Hatcat history, pretty unfortunate how that turned out
Derek Anderson in '07? him and Braylon Edwards had a really good thing going, he was also fairly mobile, but he was garbage after that
― frogbs, Monday, 9 October 2023 21:03 (eleven months ago) link
I always felt like Anderson was overrated. he turned a ball over a LOT, even in his good year.
― real warm grandpa (Neanderthal), Monday, 9 October 2023 21:04 (eleven months ago) link
he was also one of the reasons they missed the playoffs due to throwing 4 picks in a game. I'll defer to brownie's opinion on Anderson though as I didn't see him play every week!
― real warm grandpa (Neanderthal), Monday, 9 October 2023 21:05 (eleven months ago) link
Steve Beuerlein, no one noticed his fluky career year because of Warner.
Beuerlein's 4,436 passing yards led the league, and at the time was the 11th-highest passing yardage total ever.[47][48] He also led the NFL with 343 completions, and his 94.6 passer rating and 36 touchdown passes were second only to the 1999 MVP Kurt Warner.[47]Beuerlein made the Pro Bowl for the first and only time in his career, tying offensive guard Bob Young for the most seasons in the league (13) before making his first Pro Bowl.[49]
Beuerlein made the Pro Bowl for the first and only time in his career, tying offensive guard Bob Young for the most seasons in the league (13) before making his first Pro Bowl.[49]
― omar little, Monday, 9 October 2023 21:06 (eleven months ago) link
tbh Daunte Culpepper kinda qualifies for this
xpost I completely forgot about that Beuerlein year!
― real warm grandpa (Neanderthal), Monday, 9 October 2023 21:07 (eleven months ago) link
xp does it really run in cycles, seems to me like it'd be totally random. the next brady could be in the league already and we just dont have the long view yet
― ciderpress, Monday, 9 October 2023 21:07 (eleven months ago) link
despite Jay Cutler being a guy you'd think could have sleptwalk into breaking his team records due to the era, Erik Kramer still holds some of them for the Bears:
Kramer currently holds the Bears' single-season record for passing yards (3,838) and touchdown passes (29),[8] and attempts in a single game with 60 on November 16, 1997.
― omar little, Monday, 9 October 2023 21:09 (eleven months ago) link
and i wouldn't call it a "good" year necessarily (completion percentage of 58.6!) but Blake Bortles bortled his way into 4400+ yds passing and 35 TDs in 2015.
― omar little, Monday, 9 October 2023 21:11 (eleven months ago) link
oh actually I just thought of a good comp, Case Keenum in 2017. same sort of situation, backup comes in, puts up crazy numbers and wins a bunch of games, leaving many to wonder if it's the system or if it's the offense as a whole or if he's just that good...unfortunately it turned out he wasn't
― frogbs, Monday, 9 October 2023 21:11 (eleven months ago) link
xxxpost well cycles in that we never seem to be in lean QB years forever.
the early to mid-80s to late 90s didn't lack for good QB play, but a large part of that time period existed pre-free agency, where you could stockpile a successor on the bench for years with no pressure to play him and let him learn behind the best.
from like 2000 - 2008 or so, it felt like barely anybody could play the position, which is why running backs who ran 350 times per year, picked up 1600 yards, and then retired at 29 were the money men. I don't think we're quite in a period like that, fortunately.
― real warm grandpa (Neanderthal), Monday, 9 October 2023 21:15 (eleven months ago) link
Brian Griese really only had two good years. 2000 with the Broncos, 8 yards per attempt, 19 TDs vs only 4 INTs, 102.9 passer rating.
then he had a brief resurgence in Tampa Bay in 2004.
― real warm grandpa (Neanderthal), Monday, 9 October 2023 21:18 (eleven months ago) link
Having watched every one of Purdy's games, he looks and feels like the real deal. Niner fans have been apologetic over play far inferior to his going back to 2004, and seeing Purdy play is a bit of a shocker for us.
His first real time in a game, that Miami game last year, where he walked in down 7-3, then completely overwhelmed them, was like a light getting flipped on. The following weak, beating that Tampa team, I knew then he was probably the best QB we've had since Garcia. Now I am thinking he's the best since Young. Niners haven't scored like this since 1995.
― octobeard, Monday, 9 October 2023 21:26 (eleven months ago) link
All you gotta do is watch Jimmy G play last year with the same skill players. He was good, they won, but the games were still close for the most part. Brock's come in and basically turned us into the offensive machine I remember from my youth. Literally haven't seen an offense this consistently good in red and gold since the 90's
― octobeard, Monday, 9 October 2023 21:27 (eleven months ago) link
If he wins a ring in the next year or two the sky's the limit. The dynastic greats often win one young (see: Montana, Brady, Mahomes, hell throw in Posey and Jeter for baseball comps)
Until then, who knows what his ceiling looks like, but from this vantage point I can't see it yet. Gonna be a sweet ride!
― octobeard, Monday, 9 October 2023 21:30 (eleven months ago) link
Style wise, the player that Purdy was reminding me of because of the efficiency was Chad Pennington. Little different situation as Pennington sat for a couple of years, but the backup out of nowhere and just be so efficient was the thing.
The Niners are just loaded with talent everywhere though, I think a bunch of QBs could look good playing with them to an extent.
― earlnash, Monday, 9 October 2023 22:17 (eleven months ago) link
Tom Moore was the offensive coordinator for that Lions team with Mitchell, before he went to the Colts and worked with Peyton Manning. He was loveable Wayne Fontes last O-coordinator.
― earlnash, Monday, 9 October 2023 22:21 (eleven months ago) link
Brian Griese really only had two good years.
For a second there, I read that as "Bob" Griese.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Monday, 9 October 2023 22:22 (eleven months ago) link
That team had Barry Sanders and Herman Moore, they had some talent on offense. Herman Moore was pretty darn good. Without looking it up, I think he was one of the first players to get 100 catches in a year.
[Confirmed - yep Moore did it in 95, 96 & 97.] That was a big deal back in those days.
― earlnash, Monday, 9 October 2023 22:24 (eleven months ago) link
Man, Pennington could have been a potential legend, but fell to injury.
But at some point you can say "just loaded with talent everywhere though, I think a bunch of QBs could look good playing with them to an extent" about any of the amazing teams of the past with HoF QBs.
Usually health holds these dudes back far more than "talent to throw to". Brady did what he did in large part due to the fact that he was the GOAT of durability. Jerry Rice follows a similar path there. Speaking of - you don't see many question Montana and Young's careers and worthiness due to them being lucky enough to throw to Rice!
What I'm saying is Purdy to my eyes is unequivocally a pro-bowl caliber QB (our first since at least Garcia). The question to me now is whether he is a championship caliber QB.
― octobeard, Monday, 9 October 2023 22:29 (eleven months ago) link
I kinda think Brian Griese and Chad Pennington both were guys that hurt their throwing shoulder and was never quite the same afterwards. That seems to happen to alot Qb's. That's also what happened to Tim Couch.
― earlnash, Monday, 9 October 2023 22:31 (eleven months ago) link
I've said it before around here, I don't think people give enough providence to the just sheer luck of being drafted by the right team in the NFL, more so than even in the NBA or MLB. In the NBA or MLB, you can be on a crappy club and get your numbers, in the NFL, it can get you hurt.
There are lots of really good players that spend their whole careers in defense or on the offensive lines o total crap clubs and kind of retire a bit in anonymity.
Take a guy like Andrew Whitworth, who was always a really good player, but I got to think without him getting notoriety winning a Superbowl that last season with the Rams - he's not doing TV now. (That said, there are a LOT of ex-Bengals that work in football TV media.)
― earlnash, Monday, 9 October 2023 22:36 (eleven months ago) link
Wondered that a lot about the various QBs drafted by the Browns and Bears, who knows what could’ve happened if they went to a team that actually knows how to develop QBs
― frogbs, Monday, 9 October 2023 23:38 (eleven months ago) link
"here in illustrious Kansas City, you can have yourselves some wonderful barbecue, but you'd be remiss if you didn't pay a visit to the Cade McNown statue downtown"
― real warm grandpa (Neanderthal), Monday, 9 October 2023 23:46 (eleven months ago) link
“the score really doesn’t show what happened out there” - micha parsons
― brimstead, Monday, 9 October 2023 23:46 (eleven months ago) link
He passess to the scoreboard
― real warm grandpa (Neanderthal), Monday, 9 October 2023 23:49 (eleven months ago) link
One sports writer I read said that Purdy is the perfect quarterback for Shanahan, he a talented novice player who doesn’t have any history of patterns that need to be corrected, but he is someone Shanahan can mold as a piece of clay in his own image, an avatar for him on the field
― Dan S, Tuesday, 10 October 2023 00:06 (eleven months ago) link
"purdy cannot throw a ball through a pane of glass" is about right but doesn't need to do i guess.
was always told that the reason qbs often seem to flame out is that they are "solve-able," and once the book is wrote, that's it.
― i'd meet u where u are, but that place really sucks (Hunt3r), Tuesday, 10 October 2023 01:52 (eleven months ago) link
that sounds like it ought to be a coaching problem?
― ciderpress, Tuesday, 10 October 2023 02:44 (eleven months ago) link
I'll defer to brownie's opinion on Anderson though as I didn't see him play every week!
Thanks Neando - I'm glad you came to me first rather than learning about Derek Anderson on the streets.
The 2007 Browns had:
Jamal Lewis, older but still good (1300 yards rushing!)Braylon Edwards, peak yearKellen Winslow, peak yearJosh Cribbs returning kicksPhil Dawson kicking
Then Derek Anderson, who was serviceable. He had no touch on short passes - it was painful watching him try to complete screens and short crosses but when you have Jamal Lewis you could go deep more often. He really was a poor mans Flacco. He is now, politically, the poor mans Curt Schilling.
Kelly Holcomb was the true flash in the pan.
― brownie, Tuesday, 10 October 2023 13:06 (eleven months ago) link
Kellen Winslow, man I forgot about him. Probably for the best.
― omar little, Tuesday, 10 October 2023 14:52 (eleven months ago) link
yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.
― real warm grandpa (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 10 October 2023 15:51 (eleven months ago) link
If this is critiquing his accuracy it's flat out wrong. Dude was as accurate as Rodgers or Brady Sunday night, dropping in elite level accuracy on throws over 20-30 yards down field all night. See: First Kittle TD, Aiyuk completion that was called back due to holding, and the third Kittle TD for starters. Multiple passes over the middle were as elite throws as anyone in the league can throw when hitting a window pane target.
If it's critiquing his arm strength this is also dumb. Dude is leading the league in deep ball accuracy after the last game too, overtaking Tua.
Dude is doing anything you'd ask any of the best QBs to do in the league at this stage and doing it without making many mistakes against (alleged) top flight defenses like Dallas.
― octobeard, Tuesday, 10 October 2023 18:19 (eleven months ago) link
yea its pretty easy to suspect something flukey is going on but when you actually watch him its like nah he's legitimately good
― frogbs, Tuesday, 10 October 2023 18:24 (eleven months ago) link
I mean obviously a lot of that is on the coaching staff because so many of those throws are aimed directly at where the receiver is going to be in 3/4 of a second but also, he's very accurate on those throws, and a whole lot of QBs arent
― frogbs, Tuesday, 10 October 2023 18:27 (eleven months ago) link
Exactly, see Love and Jimmy G last night if you need examples of what actual middling QB play looks like.
― octobeard, Tuesday, 10 October 2023 20:21 (eleven months ago) link
i guess there aren't too many compelling matchups this week, but having the nyfg (+15) at buffalo as your NBC Football Night in America Game of the Week is lol
― mookieproof, Sunday, 15 October 2023 20:03 (eleven months ago) link
Purdy finally got his first loss, vs. Cleveland’s 3rd stringer no less. Took some doing by the refs but still he played pretty bad
― frogbs, Sunday, 15 October 2023 20:37 (eleven months ago) link