"Winning the BIG GAME"=really overrated.

Right, but having Manning means that all kinds of slants and runs will be open when they otherwise wouldn't be. Plus, Manning is just sitting up there, recognizing defenses, calling audibles... he does a lot of stuff that doesn't show up in the stats AND he has great stats.

yeah that's what i mean...there's this wierd perception that a Qb is the only factor in winning the "big game"...

lol, "dwayne wade, is that your dad?"

I've never been totally sold on this argument. Yeah I suspect that Marino might have won, but Montana and Young had mobility (and therefore flexibility) that Marino didn't. And Marino was around for AGES so it seems hard to believe that the Dolphins couldn't have built a good team around him and won if he was actually that great.

"Right, but having Manning means that all kinds of slants and runs will be open when they otherwise wouldn't be."

-is that true, though? addai and rhodes probably got additional yards b/c of how deep the safeties were playing, but a defense that's executing shouldn't be letting backs get in to the defensive backfield. there are certainly a lot of west coast schemes that have been successful on the premise that most d's will give up quick slants, screens and swing passes and they hardly required a wizard to run them.

far lesser qbs than montana, young or marino could've won w/a couple of those 9ers teams.

The Bears defense didn't execute all that well, but they were definitely giving Manning the short stuff and the runs and didn't think Manning would take it and exploit it. I guess they didn't watch Manning against the Ravens and Patriots, when he basically did the same exact thing. I think Alex Brown said as much in the post-game comments.

The problem the Bears had with the running game / slants is that stuff that should have been 3 or 4 yards was 10 yards because they kept missing assignments, taking bad angles, or just couldn't make the first tackle on Rhodes/Addai.

re:

o line/qbs i totally thought of old school skins and the average qbs that won w/ the hogs...or the timmy smith bowl!

Re: the original argument, I think it's a bit unfortunate but it is definitely true that not having won a Super Bowl hurts you in terms of perception. Steve Young probably would've shot himself in the face if he hadn't pulled off that SB win. See also: "Tiki Barber/Barry Sanders is leaving football...BEFORE WINNING A SUPER BOWL" arguments about "quitters." I don't think it is particularly fair--I mean, really, you're right, who is going to argue that Trent Dilfer is a better QB than Marino or Kelly? Besides Dilfer's mom, maybe. It just seems to put those dudes down to a level which just isn't regarded as highly...they're still first ballot HOFers but there's that asterisk.

No it's not fair but life is a game of inches etc.

he didn't play for the 2003-4 pats.

It is completely bizarre. Of course, Aikman was a first round HOFer and all that and people all still know who he is...but yeah, I don't know why he doesn't enter into the conversation when some of these other people do.

tom brady is such an uncharismatic mannequin that in order to make an ad campaign featuring him they were forced to hire his entire o-line to put some life into the room!