State of the QB - 2007

I wish I'd have known who was taking bets, because the very few occasions I saw Derek Anderson play last year I kept asking rhetorical questions to my living room wall like "Why isn't he starting?!" and "Why won't they give this guy some blocking so he can make his badass throws?"

I think Garrard looks really good, yeah. he's kind of slept on, too.

Everyone in Jacksonville is slept on. It's the curse of the small market team (especially the small market team with only a decade of history).

the small market team with teal in its uniform!

Jacksonville is scary. Watching them against the Chargers was an eye-opening experience for me. With the Ravens and Bears out, the Jagers are really the only team in the playoffs with an intimidating defense (except Tennessee if they can get in).

the jags have all the things overwrought salisbury types always tag as integral parts of playoff teams: a qb who doesn't turn the ball over, a physical defense, a pretty efficient and menacing running game. i guess the major problem is that they'd have to win 3 games, which at this point looks to be @ sd, @ ne, @ indy.

the vikes of the past 4 weeks are like the nfc version of the jags. except they have better than a 1/1,000 shot of winning the conference.

1/900 maybe but still.

The Jags on paper are a definite contender, but until they start winning the games they're supposed to win with regularity and show up with a couple of OMGWTF upsets during a season, they're not going to advance in the AFC playoffs past the first round.

I always figured that the QB's from my youth were better than the current crop, overall. Bradshaw, Pastorini, Anderson, Grogan, Bert Jones, Joe Ferguson, Stabler, Staubach, Jim Hart, Tarkenton, Craig Morton, Manning, Fouts etc. But looking back at the stats would some of these guys be starting today? Pastorini never had a year where he threw for more TD's than INT's, Jim Hart had only three years out of 18 doing that. Craig Morton was up and down. Ferguson was average. Stabler threw more INT's than TD's in his career but was a winner.

Obviously the QB position was different back then and the defense had the advantage, especially on the line so it could be comparing apples & oranges. And looking at the stats it was obvious that coaches were more tolerant of interceptions. Either that or there were simply no back up QB's worth anything.

I dunno.

he was brutal for the early season, but i'm shock that Tarvaris has been playing very well for the Vikes...starting to see why the coaches were so stubborn with sticking with him, now you can see him throw those laser super hard short passes like favre and stuff like that, great arm and more mobile than i had hoped he would be...

The guys above are about the decent QBs of the NFL, the other half of the league is really where it gets interesting.

Giants/Eli Manning & SD/Phillip Rivers - These two guys are sides of the same coin. They both have had some good games and at times look freaking awful.

I think with Rivers it seems to me that Norv Turner's game calls are really wacky and are often trying to throw the ball way too much. Rivers kind of failed at doing that and I think it has him a bit spooked. They have LT and Turner and I often times look and they are throwing the ball over 40 times a game. That kind of shit is why guys like Turner might can only work as a coordinator where there is some defensive minded head coach keeping them in line. That head coach Whisenhunt in Arizona is another dork that is way too in love with his play book.

I think Manning has the problem that he is often on a different page on routes than his receivers. Compound that with the Giants are a ball dropping club, especially their backs, all of which are freakin' terrible on screens. That Jacobs guy has hands of stone and they should NEVER throw to that guy. He couldn't catch a cold. The Giants are also some big time fumblers and they still get way too many penalties. Manning is no great shakes, but I think the fact that the guy has an even keel is a good think for NY, as someone needs to just shut up and drive the bus around those lunatics. I've got a NY Fox station on my satillite, so I watch the Giants a bunch, they have talent, but do some head scratching stuff.

Both of these guys could be OK or might be fine someplace else, but there is a a whole lot of pressure to make it happen. Both SD and the Giants could be in a whole lot worse place.

Carolina and SF could both be playoff teams if they had any game coming out of the QB position. I think the Panthers would probably be a .500 club with a healthy Delhomme. David Carr needs to be banished to the CFL, that dude is freakin' terrible and not even worth keeping around. If you cannot beat out a 43 year old guy who was on the couch in week four, you don't deserve an NFL job. Delhomme is not great, but the guy could put up some nice deep passes for Steve Smith.

SF's offense is a black hole. Frank Gore has lost it and their offensive line is terrible. I don't know if Alex Smith is a complete bust or not, as the guy seems to get clobbered every time he drops back. They need to start over, but I hope they don't as I like watching the 49ers fail.

Atlanta - Joey Harrington is a decent backup QB. The dude will be playing the NFL for a few more years, but I don't think the guy is a starter. I thought Leftwich would be a decent QB coming out of college, but the guy cannot stay healthy and I think part of that is that he cannot get rid of the ball.

Ravens/Bears - The Bears are the historical team for a club that rare to NEVER gets good QB play. The Ravens are about the AFC version of the Bears. I think it is do over time for each club. If the Bears were smart and they definitely are not, they should look into maybe 2nd or 3rd draft pick for McNabb out of Philly. I think the Eagles might be ready to start over and I could see McNabb being a dude in Chicago.

I think Billick's genius days are long behind him. The dude has had 50 guys play QB for him and none of them have worked out. Criminy, Baltimore should have never run off Vinny T. and they would not have had this problem. I loved watching McNair play in his prime, but the wear and tear has had it's say. I think the guy should either retire. I just don't see McNair having a huge year out of nowhere late in his career like Randall Cunningham did with the Vikings. Big Ben should also look at all the wear and tear that McNair has gotten from dragging players around and getting rid of the ball late, as his story could end up like Air McNair down the line. Get rid of that ball and avoid the hit.

if McNabb came to Chicago I would immediately become a Bears fan. also lol @ "If the Bears were smart and they definitely are not"

if McNabb came to Chicago I would immediately become a Bears fan.

there were rumors last year about this. didn't he lead the mt. caramel caravan to the state title when he was in hs?

Rivers has made me turn off at least three Chargers games this year. He's made a couple throws that were like "We let go of Cleo Lemon for this guy?

He's made a couple throws that were like "We let go of Cleo Lemon for this guy?

dude come on now.

Think about if you had to say to yourself "We paid how much to AVOID Philip Rivers?!?"

Because that's how Eli plays for about three quarters of every game

This year, Cleo Lemon has thrown interceptions on 2.9% of his throws. Rivers has thrown interceptions on 3.8% of his throws. This, despite the fact that Rivers has Gates, LT, Neal, a good offensive line, and a better receiver corps than the Dolphins (especially with Chambers, and admittedly not saying much). And Rivers has faced very little pressure this year.

Rivers is obviously much better than Lemon, but he has been very, very frustrating to watch this year.

It's so hard to compare quarterback play from one era to another. Back in the seventies defensive linemen could literally pistol-whip receivers coming across the line of scrimmage.

Speaking of comparing quarterback play from era to another... in the 1940's apparently - I think this stat was from a Dr. Z column - one in nine throws resulted in an interception!

I think considering how much they pass the ball, I don't think players throw interceptions as much as they did in the past. Go look at Namath or Tarkington's stats, those guys threw mad amounts of interceptions, but in their day just lobbing the thing out of bounds when no one was open was really not acceptable play. If you watch those old NFL films, you will also see QBs seemingly running themselves deep into holes on sacks all the time, ending up losing 20 yards on a play.

I think the short passing game is another thing that has changed in football. TJ Whosyermamma has over 90+ receptions this year at about ten yards a catch. The Bengals rarely even throw to him a pass over 10 yards in the air. The guy catches bunches of little five yard outs that he stretches into 7 to 12 yard gains.

Short passes are a good point about today's QB's. And yet there's Joe Washington, who in 1979 caught 90 passes out of the backfield!!!!! I fainted at that stat.

Nevertheless defense had the advantage back then and fullbacks (who were quite often the premier back) roamed the earth with hands of stone. Tightends were used for blocking and receivers were judged on speed, not hands. Offensive lineman couldn't "hold" and there was more head slapping by the D-line than a Three Stooges short.

Earl Morrall was QB for the lion's share of the Dolphin's 1972 victories. Griese played in 6 games. Where am I going with this? to get drink

drink and drunk my new rust belt offense

receivers were judged on speed, not hands

this part isn't really true but I meant well

by well I mean TO SHATTER YOUR ILLUSIONS

Scouts Inc. ranks the top 64 QBs in the NFL (Insiders only!):

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/news/story?id=3147842

Spoilers:

55. John Beck
56. Luke McCown
57. Cleo Lemon
58. Matt Cassel
59. Dan Orlovsky
60. Ryan Fitzpatrick
61. Anthony Wright
62. Patrick Ramsey
63. David Carr
64. Jamie Martin

Matt Cassel might be the awesomest ever, but we'll probably never really know.

he got through college and the first two years of his pro career that way.

Not to mention that quarterbacks used to call their own plays. I wish they still did.

ya i bet opposing defenses wish they still did too~

seems like there's been a lot of agonizing the past couple years about how poor the level of QBing across the board is, but idk if i really buy into that. it's just that most quarterbacks are players who you win WITH, not guys who win FOR you. w/most QBs you gotta have good balance* on the offense, gotta protect well, run ball well, stay out of 3rd and longs - so what you have to do in most situations is build a team that can play to the QBs strengths bcz v rarely will you have a QB who can do everything well

*balance isnt just run-pass balance btw, NE is not a balanced offense but they ARE balanced in how they work the field, they spread you out and give the QB time to make plays. this is where it becomes apparent why brady & peyton are such special players, they're the only guys right now where you can put that much responsibility in their hands and expect them to be succesful. and even still, idk how many QBs are gonna be real special when you dont have balance offensively & give them weapons at the skill positions.

The Jags on paper are a definite contender, but until they start winning the games they're supposed to win with regularity and show up with a couple of OMGWTF upsets during a season, they're not going to advance in the AFC playoffs past the first round.

-- Johnny Fever, Tuesday, December 11, 2007 9:02 AM (5 days ago) Bookmark Link

yr thinking of last year's jags, who were the least consistent team in the league. this year they've lost three games - two to divisional opponents (indy and a tennessee team that's been playing hellacious defense all year) and that one bizarro loss to NO when QUINN GRAY (lol who) was starting.

david garrard's had a sensational season, i really had no idea he could be this good. he's a perfect example of a guy who isnt overly gifted but is just a good, smart football player, who won't make a ton of big explosive plays but shows how you can win when you protect the football, particularly when you've got a team like jax that can run the ball and defend particularly well (tho the Jax defense is only 16th in the league according to FO metrics, and it probably isn't gonna get any better with stroud on IR now - http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef.php)

philip rivers is a bit better than eli in my estimation but i think he's a good illustration of how you need to put yr QB in a position to succeed. their gameplans this year have been so goofy - to me SD is a play-action team who has to run well, defensively they havent been getting after it consistently enough early, they're getting behind & panicking and taking themselves out of the running game; run the football, set up play action, get gates and chambers opportunities, this will give time for rivers to set up & make throws. you dont want him throwing into the teeth of cover 2, dont want him throwing on 3rd and long situations, so you gotta try and stay out of them - they havent done this consistently enough, which is why they're 8-5 instead of 10-3

the giants are just such a shitty passing team, they need a real deep threat and some perimeter speed, especially with plax on the bum knee. the fact that they're nearly a lock for the playoffs blows me away, and makes me feel pretty good about my assertion at the start of the year that tom coughlin was actually a decent coach.

They need to start over, but I hope they don't as I like watching the 49ers fail.

i love you so much sometimes, earlnash

I always figured that the QB's from my youth were better than the current crop, overall. Bradshaw, Pastorini, Anderson, Grogan, Bert Jones, Joe Ferguson, Stabler, Staubach, Jim Hart, Tarkenton, Craig Morton, Manning, Fouts etc. But looking back at the stats would some of these guys be starting today? Pastorini never had a year where he threw for more TD's than INT's, Jim Hart had only three years out of 18 doing that. Craig Morton was up and down. Ferguson was average. Stabler threw more INT's than TD's in his career but was a winner.

Obviously the QB position was different back then and the defense had the advantage, especially on the line so it could be comparing apples & oranges. And looking at the stats it was obvious that coaches were more tolerant of interceptions. Either that or there were simply no back up QB's worth anything.

I dunno.

-- brownie, Tuesday, December 11, 2007 5:12 PM (5 days ago) Bookmark Link

check dis out, browniez~

http://www.armchairgm.com/index.php?title=The_100_Greatest_Quarterbacks_of_the_Modern_Era

i love this article

^ok this is turning out to be a great article but I had to stop at Ken Anderson. He's not in the Hall of Fame?!? I could write a 5,000 word post on the NFL when I was growing up filled with my usual declarative sentences but for god's sake Ken Andeson should be in the HOF.

holy shit Roman Gabriel at 16!

Haha! Best Lion QB's of all time- Bobby Layne and Greg Landry. GOD growing up with that team was murder.

i love this trivia shit

In 1963, at the age of 37, Tittle busted out the best season of his career, finishing second in football (behind Johnny Unitas) in passing PAR with 82.7 -- a total that would have ranked him fourth among passers in 2006, even. That year, Tittle also set the all-time record for TD passes in a season with 36, a mark of excellence that would stand for 21 years before being broken by Dan Marino in 1984.

37 years old!

I'm pretty much live blogging my Saturday night with this article.

:/

dogg i feel u! kenny anderson aka MY MAIN MANS KENZILLA was a pimp and a half

more kenny klamz: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2006/07/26/ramblings/stat-analysis/4042/

I could write a 5,000 word post on the NFL when I was growing up filled with my usual declarative sentences

DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT

i didnt know u grew up wit the lions~

64. Jamie Martin
Backup, New Orleans Saints
Martin is a veteran QB who's been in the NFL for 13 seasons. He can complete the short and intermediate throws needed to finish a game.

This tells you all you need to know about the state of the QB in 2007. Martin has been in the league 13 seasons! The dude is Frank Reich without all of the Frank Reichness. I think I remember the Rams winning a game or two with Martin earlier in the decade, but maybe he got hurt and then that is how Bulger ended up the starter or something.

I've been watching all sorts of NFL films since they started up the network and I think QBs today have it breezy even compared to the 70s into the 80s. Those dudes used to take a freakin mortal pounding.

A note from that Armchair GM site: Jeff Blake had a FREAKIN' cannon of an arm, it wasn't very accurate, but the dude could bazooka the long ball.

"#86: Jeff Blake - People always forget how good this guy was in the mid-1990's. One of the best in '95 and '96. Blake's favorite targets were Carl Pickens and Darnay Scott."

"They need to start over, but I hope they don't as I like watching the 49ers fail."

Even when the Niners are complete junk, they still stick it to Cincinatti fans. What a f'n cruddy game... SF's defense is pretty good, if they had even a middling offense they would be at least a wild card contender.

Kenny Anderson is not in the Hall of Fame because the Bengals could not get over the Steelers within their own division. His best seasons correspond with the height of the Steel Curtain.

from that article:

#63: Kurt Warner - The Spice Girls of quarterbacks, Warner hit the U.S. scene quickly after success in Europe, shined on the big stage for a brief while, and disappeared off the face of the earth not long thereafter (but not before several pathetic comeback attempts). Warner has the strange distinction of having a number of the best seasons in NFL history (1999, 2001) and the worst (2002, 2003) -- it's like the clock struck twelve right in the middle of Super Bowl XXXVI. But at least his breathtaking highs of 1999-2001 (and decent play since 2004) are enough to get him onto this list at #63... Some cinderellas probably won't even make it that far.

the "Some cinderellas" is a link to their page on Tony Romo

LOLLERS

Jeff Blake was like the John Kitna of his day. You always think "this dude would be such a winner on a better team," but they never wind up winning much.

speaking to the state of hte QB I seem to remember in the 80s more teams going through 3 QBs in a season due to injuries since the rules didn't protect QBs as well. I looked at stats from pro-footballreference.com but haven't like broken them out yet.