the 2010 Coaching Carousel thread

http://twitter.com/Jay_Glazer/status/7371475147

congrats bills fans!

o_O

damn, the entire staff. were there no bright spots.

holmgren to meet with mangini tomorrow. decision could be at hand.

zorn is out

redskins official blogger says that contrary to reporting by SCHEFTER, zorn was not in fact escorted from the building by security..

jeez, here i'd thought they'd at least wait til monday night so he could go to eastern motors while his job was still his credit

schefter's also reporting that cowher is unlikely to coach in 2010

yowza, espn with the zing.
ESPN.com - Reports: Buffalo Bills fire interim coach Perry Fewell, entire staff

I certainly don't see not-reupping Fewell as a zing given the situation in Buffalo. He certainly didn't hurt himself professionally in his stint, despite the embarrassment in Atlanta. And someone's going to snap up Bobby April.

I wouldn't mind if Billick ended up in Buffalo.

I bet some of the Bills guys will be rehired, but you have to let the new coach pick his staff if you're going to make that job attractive.

on the one hand i agree because he seems like a good coach. on the other hand i find him so vile.

xpost about billick

Marty Schottenheimer would be PERFECT for that Bills gig imo.

I don't know how I feel about the idea of liking the Oakland Raiders, but I mean what can you do: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/319610-nfl-coaching-news-mike-leach-to-the-oalan-raiders

Honestly this kind of seems perfect, especially since Leach loves speedy receivers almost as much as Al Davis does, although JaMarcus Russell does not seem like the ideal Air Raid QB. Of course the Al Davis interventions and the spies will probably lead to acrimony, but tbh I am fine with the idea of locking Randy Hanson in a supply closet.

oh god this would be an epic failure

Mike Leach to the Raiders would be such fun.

that would be awesome

bleacher report tho

Leach to Raiders, hell yeah!!! If your going to be a crazy dysfunctional franchise, might as well embrace the madness.

tcu has a sick punter

whoops wrong thread

giants has already gotten rid of their defensive coordinator - rip lil dude you had no chance this year in the modern nfl.

what was that guys deal anyway

not sure, but, when you think about it, what is any of the giants deal anyway?

tru

I'm just happy Zorn got officially fired. THEY CAN'T TOUCH YOU NOW!

There have been others talking up Mike Leach going to the Raiders. It's like so insane it might just work. One of these spread offensive guys is going to get a shot in the NFL. I have no idea if it would ever work, but someone is going to give it a shot. I think the big thing is if Leach goes there, does he get some actual assistants with NFL experience. I think Leach is a whole lot more hands on than guys like Spurrier who had pretty much rode their name and assistant coaches for years.

Giants might be getting ready to bring back Spagnola, as you have to think he might not make it considering how bad the Rams flopped.

latest from schefter

Shanahan will team with general manager Bruce Allen but have ultimate authority on football decisions.
half a minute ago from web

Filed to ESPN: Mike Shanahan signed a five-year contract with the Redskins. Becomes head coach and Exec VP of football operations.
less than a minute ago from web

After a brief meeting today, Eric Mangini and Mike Holmgren will meet again tonight, then again tomorrow. No decisions yet.
about 5 hours ago from web

Bears did keep two offensive assistant coaches, WR coach Darryl Drake and RB coach Tim Spencer.
about 5 hours ago from web

Slight correction: Heckert going to Cleveland tonight for visit tomorrow.
about 5 hours ago from web

Interesting in that Mike Holmgren and Tom Heckert each have the same agent, Bob LaMonte.
about 6 hours ago from web

Browns ARE busy today. They're discussing their GM job with Eagles GM Tom Heckert, who is in Cleveland today.
about 6 hours ago from web

Bears cleaned house on their entire offensive staff, dismissing six offensive assistant coaches, including OC Ron Turner.
about 7 hours ago from web

shanahan w/ final say + snyder's checkbook could turn out... not very well...

could hardly be worse than it has been already

jim mora got fired

and the seahawks apparently want pete carroll? that is like the height of fuckwittery

holmgren deftly dropped that group of players in mora's lap just as several years of terrible drafting had turned it to crap.

yeah i mean i don't know too much about what mora specifically did but getting pissed off because he went 5-11 with that group is pretty o_O

Leslie Frazer turned down the opportunity to interview in Seattle because he could tell it was just a token minority interview.

http://deadspin.com/5444393/seahawks-shack-up-with-pete-carroll-as-if-he-were-a-grad-student-living-in-malibu#viewcomments

I'm linking to this because of the line about the Schef.

god, what an idiot. could've been happy and successful at usc for 20 years.

otoh leach to raiders would pretty much make them my favorite nfl team

carroll might just be getting out before the hammer comes down re: all the potential violations stacking up

i think this will be a good hire for seattle

a lot better than jim l. mora anyway

yeah that's what I've been reading, I dunno tho, I've believe ncaa sanctions when I see em

regardless of carroll's skills as a coach, the overall record of college coaches in the NFL makes me willing to place a large bet on him failing.

counter-point: bill walsh, paul brown, dick vermeil, tom coughlin, george allen, sid gillman

but hey its your money

Also, he was a pro coach/coordinator for many years before he was a college coach, so it's not like he's some guy off the farm.

carroll is retarded. sanctions or not, he had a pro team in LA and could get any player in the country that he wanted, wish athletes/coaches could let their egos slide. that team is a mess.

otoh, he did have a winning record in the nfl and i think he should do well considering how continually pathetic the nfc west is

Nah. Unless he's changed dramatically, he'll be a bad NFL head coach.

Not tough enough/doesn't command sufficient respect. Maybe the USC dynasty will change that.

counter-point: bill walsh, paul brown, dick vermeil, tom coughlin, george allen, sid gillman

yeah 6 (mostly quite old) examples vs. how many failures?

Not tough enough/doesn't command sufficient respect.

this really has little bearing on coaching success i think -- macho testosterone fallacy of football still being in the lombardi era

I mean the general argument about college and pro coaches needing different skills to be successful is more true with pete carroll than just about anybody! he was a hell of a recruiter and was fielding a team w/ bigger and better players in almost every game he played.

Yes, this ^^^^

like... for instance, the rams "respect" steve spagnuolo but it's not going to really matter there, because i'm not sure if he's intellectually fit to be coach. i'm not sure if the chargers think norv turner is strong/enough tough enough but i think they respect him because they realize they can win with him.

unrelated but thinking of drew bledsoe always makes me think of one of my first pro football memories--this insane game from 1994: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/199411130nwe.htm

yeah, bledsoe's not really a guy you leave to his own devices

i always forget that warren moon had one crazy-ass good season w/minnesota and then another really good one w/seattle

that 94 game ended with bledsoe completing a sweet throw over fullback kevin turner's shoulder in the back of the endzone. i was 10 and totally remember being at my grandparents house--everyone felt it was a galvanizing moment of legitimacy for the lowly new england patriots.

i think what makes a good coach and what makes a bad coach in folks' eyes is all in perception and not in actual on-field moves

Granted. Watch him in that introductory clip. I cannot see him commanding respect among NFL players. Maybe I'll be wrong. Like I say, he seems nice, so I'd be happy for him to succeed.

I wouldn't bet on it, tho.

you guys make me feel old. i remember watching Bledsoe start his first game.

I remember watching him when he was in college.

Ughhhhhhh . . . I remember watching Dan Fouts.

Oh you better believe I remember watching Dan Fouts. He was kinda winding down when I started watching though. I think my oldest football memory is Bears/Patriots,

Yeah. My NFL memories really kick-in about the time DAN MARINO debuted.

I wonder if Morbius remembers Otto Graham's first game.

re: this ridiculous commanding respect nonsense, i think this is a really good point by earlnash

Pete Carroll has quite a bit more rep now as a coach though than the last time he was in the pros. Winning and turning out that many star pros would have to change the perception on him as a coach.

secondly, and i believe this to be an ultimate truism: winning can command respect but respect cannot command winning - and again i'll use the same examples: the rams respect steve spagnuolo, the niners respect mike singletary etc but it doesn't really matter if the coach & his staff is not intellectually fit to coach

another example, look at the broncos: start of the season, how many players there "respect" josh mcdaniels? they go 6-0, beat the pats and all of a sudden brandon marshall is hugging mcdaniels in front of the press. and then they start losing and things really seemed to go haywire in that locker room. i don't think the team lost respect for josh mcdaniels in the middle of the season and just started losing.

winning can command respect but respect cannot command winning

true but ideally you can do both--i firmly believe that emotional leadership matters more in the nfl than in other team sports and that if a carroll or a zorn who is by normal societal standards a flake gets off on the wrong foot, that guy will have a much harder time MAINTAINING respect than a singletary. intellectual ability is no doubt #1 but leadership skills are #2 hands down.

i mean this is where the "good coordinator, lousy coach" archetype originates

i agree but i think talk about "respect" ia so abstract and unidentifiable to us that it's hardly worth debating with pete carroll and the seahawks. how does jim caldwell command respect? norv turner? wade phillips? sean payton? jim harbaugh? mike tomlin? all of those guys have or had flaws that you could've pointed at when they were hired and said "the players won't respect him-- he's going to fail."

in cleveland, did bill belichick fail because he didn't command respect? why did the initial patriots players respect him? did it/does it matter?

yeah i mean the big unknown here is what goes on with the team behind closed doors--and let's not front none of us have any idea. all i can speak to is how it felt when carroll coached the pats, how he came off in press conferences and stuff, and the vast difference between that and a parcells-coached team. it's unfair in a sense to compare people to parcells but they were not even on the same planet imo.

yeah no one knows, though i guess you can figure out more these days if you have the patience to figure out if anyone on the interwebs knows what's up (a few people on redskins message board know players).

i've been wondering what happened this year in new england, usually everyone speaks the company line, but.. maybe this year it started to get weird when they traded seymour just days before the start of the season and no one saw it coming, then adalius thomas had some issue with BB and was benched for a game, then four guys held out for lateness, wilfork upset (justifiably) for not getting a contract extension done (though it's not like he played any differently), culminating in playoff disaster game. wrong mix of players somehow & basically the whole veteran leadership of the defense gone before the season started.

oh also haslett to redskins

it's weird to say this as a bears fan but i think deep down that a guy like mike ditka was a good coach more in style than in actual execution, a "winner" because of a super bowl win that may have been largely helped by an astonishing d-coordinator (remember who half the players flocked to at the end of SB XX) and in the end he was kind of a clown and if he hadn't won a super bowl he might be thought of differently.

and what if andy reid had won a single super bowl, something he could have done with a bit of luck? people clown him but why? and if holmgren hadn't won one with green bay, how would he be considered? people consider him an uber-guru, but is that due to the single title? i think there are good coaches, obviously. and i think there are bad coaches. but i think there are plenty of great coaches who get saddled with the "loser" tag (reid, schottenheimer, maybe denny green) and mediocre ones who end up winning a super bowl and having a decent run on either side of the win and end up with a pass. i think with coaches (and QBs, too), pundits and fans like to run with the narrative that some dudes are losers and some are winners, and i think the actual truth is just more complex and often comes down to luck. as far as "respect" goes, like CAD says we don't know what goes down behind closed doors. players loved zorn a year ago iirc, and now he's a joke. tom coughlin was a bit of a lame duck, and then he won a super bowl. look at the nba: doc rivers was a constant, constant target and on the hot seat and suddenly he turned into a genius (sure he got garnett and allen but i hear people talking about his coaching skills now too.)

anyway i look at those carroll-coached pats teams and don't see them as blown opportunities for glory, i see them as pretty good teams on paper who were pretty good teams on the field, and while a great coach might have gotten something more from them, what they had was a relatively young coach who was still learning the ropes and got about what could be expected out of them. he didn't do anything special there, but i don't think he blew it. i think he has a chance to be a solid NFL coach (and i kinda think he was one previously.) i'm not saying he's gonna be a jimmy johnson-level success, of course. we'll see. i guess it comes down to the fact that a lot of loud hardman coach types who *look* like winners are often losers without a clue, and soft-looking dudes who appear to be pushovers are often the best coaches.

i'm a little drunk, sorry if this doesn't make as much sense as i think it might...

I definitely agree that Reid is a better coach than Holmgren. No question.

omar otm - i keep bringing these two up, but the coaches of the two hottest teams in football right now are wade phillips and norv turner, both who are mild mannered & soft spoken guys who have been viewed as perpetual underachievers in their current places but seem to have finally gotten their teams to click at a sort of scary rate. both teams are super talented of course but i think players nowadays respect coaches who bring shit to the table intellectually in terms of schemes and things like that. peter king mentioned sorta off hand in a mmqb a few weeks ago that the dallas defense swears by wade phillips and think that he is a genius. i think that this kinda stuff matters much more -- maybe more with a veteran team than a young team, which is kind of a weird thing for carroll from what i can tell because the offense is very old in seattle but the defense has a bunch of good, young players -- to players now than a blustery, ex-player who gives rousing speeches and is Respected and feared by his players

yeah omar otm. Belichick lost the Cleveland fans (benching Kosar mainly), I don't know about the locker room- I think alot of head coaching revolves around just getting "your" guys in there.

Another thing I don't think has been put together about Pete Carroll going to the Seahawks is that the is going into pretty much one of the weaker divisions since the last time they swapped around the conferences. Other than Seattle, no club has been able to really maintain more than a year or two of being good.

Mike Ditka was totally a rah rah coach with a great personality who happened to hit the right club at the right time. It definitely wasn't genius to just hand the ball to Walter Payton and wait for that defense to stop everyone. The genius was in how well the Bears drafted for a few seasons.

the bills are showing interest in chan gailey :(

i'm so sorry horseshoe :((( SO SORRY :((((((

:(

new Seahawks GM is John Schneider, former Packers director of football operations. seems like a great hire

Source: Bills hire Gailey as coach

welp

http://i50.tinypic.com/280uuwz.jpg

ralph wilson is officially in al davis territory now

looks like leslie frasier is ours for another year : )

schefter was hilarious explaining the hiring on sportscenter. basically, as more and more legit coaches turned down the bills, they kept coming back to one name: chan gailey. and they're thrilled to have him!

yeah he was literally their 8th or 9th choice

ade otm x2 (the pic and that the org is now at raiders levels of radioactivity to anyone with a reputation to protect + any opportunity to not work in Buffalo, NY)

Did Frasier turn them down or what?

per peter king

And the list of guys who turned down the chance to even talk about the job ... it's so long that the only conclusion you can logically draw is the Bills are turning into the Raiders. No coach wants the job. So the team has to find a guy who wouldn't be a candidate elsewhere -- and Gailey, after clashing with Todd Haley in Kansas City last year, had nowhere to go.

i think there's a slight chance that gailey can improve the team to the point that a frazier type name might want to take the job over in three years -- king made it seem like he did a fairly decent job in dallas just keeping the ship righted, who knows what will happen in buffalo. can't really get thaaaat much worse at this point. feel so bad for buffalo, <3 buffalo

the major problem w/ the bills right now is that they are considerably behind the other three teams in the east. both the jets & the dolphins weathered a few down years and turned things around remarkably quickly... and the pats will always be the pats (ie head and shoulders above the bills).

I think the major problem is that there are some bad apples making decisions for the team. Not Wilson himself necessarily (although he is old lol) but guys who he trusts, a la Herrera for the Raiders.

oh god it gets worse

Marty Schottenheimer wanted Bills gig

ESPN.com's Tim Graham, citing sources close to former Chargers head coach Marty Schottenheimer, reports that Marty "badly" wanted to be Buffalo's next head coach. According to the report, the Bills did not extend Marty an interview because of Ralph Wilson's lack of interest.

Apparently Nix was pro-Marty but :ahem: Mr. Wilson not so much. Keep in mind Marty played linebacker for Ralph Wilson for four years ;_;

WELP YOU GUYS

I think the owners are all in agreement to not hire any big-name coaches like Marty and Gruden and Cowher. By hiring underexperienced no-name coaches and paying them nowhere near what they would be paying the proven winners, it gives them leverage for the CBA.

^^ this is relevant but then why not just keep Fewell? hell, why not just keep Jauron? because no one needs a sad Marty

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/0119/nfl_ap_mschottenheimer1_200.jpg

I'd rather have Marty than some of these idiots. The guy won a lot of games and generally were pretty good on defense and special teams. His son would probably follow him to be his offensive coordinator too, possibly if successful, as a successor at head coach (which some people seem to think is his career path).

http://killjill.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/hugh-jackman.jpg

I think this guy is the new offensive coordinator for the Raiders.

haha. hue jackson is actually a pretty good coach, and i think that's one of the better hires the Raiders have made in recent years. I don't know if he'll have a lot of success in that situation, but I think he'll do about as good as anyone can.

Zorn works for the Ravens now, ha!

Didn't move very far!

Martz to Bears is apparently a go.

I think it's a great hire. I'm not the hugest Martz fan, and their personnel is horrible for his scheme (or ANY scheme), which calls for reliable pass protection and precise route running, but I think he can make some things happen with Cutler. He's a GREAT QB coach, and he can help refine Cutler's game and turn him into a more disciplined player. Cutler's like a young Favre right now, and he needs a Holmgren to keep his nose to the grindstone. But the Bears really need to take seriously the job of rebuilding the worst OL in football. They also need to get a lot better at receiver, but maybe they have faith in the continued development of Knox, Hester, Bennett, Aromashadu. I'm not in love with any of those guys, but Martz is also known for getting some pretty sensational production out of role-player type receivers... its just a matter of how many of them can do the things demanded of his scheme.

could be one of the great crash and burn hires of recent years tho i agree they needed a big change for cutler's sake

The Bears skills players are young, but they have some talent. I think they have better WR corps than they have had really in years. Their o-line and some of the defense is just getting old, as the core of that club has been together for the better part of the decade.

I think Martz could be pretty good in using Hester, who under the last coordinators pretty much lived off screens and going deep. Hester improved quite a bit last year.

The biggest thing is getting that o-line up to snuff, as they couldn't run and Cutler had quite a few games where he was running for his life.

Mike Tice will be more important than Martz when it comes to the o-line. Martz's schemes are very unfriendly for o-lines by virtue of being so pass-heavy, and the Bears don't exactly have a great running back, so Tice will have his work cut out for him.