an open letter to the mods from Whiney G. Weingarten

We don't really need to go through this again do we?

I'd support the idea of warning people when they hit, say, 40 Suggest Bans, but an automated warning is the very worst way to go about it.

^^^making sense all over the place

you mean in terms of coding, matt?

Seems to me like being a mod is a pain in the freakin ass. Other boards that I come across don’t even indulge these discussions so big up to the mods for having a dialog.

In the end it’s just a temp ban and it's like don't you have to go really out of your way to get a ban in the first place?

MOST PEOPLE ON HERE DONT GET BANNED IMO

yeah i guess we just see this very differently -- to me that illustrates how unnecessary Dan's action was. it's almost like a cop planting drugs on a criminal that's already been caught in the act, why even stick your neck out taking a questionable action when justice will be served either way?

What the fuck are you talking about? "Planting evidence" would be editing Whiney's posts into inflammatory nonsense to encourage other people into suggest-banning him. This is a deliberately inflammatory, prejudicial analogy.

My communication method in this instance was too compressed because, quite frankly, I was also severely annoyed at the time, but what I was attempting to accomplish was:

- stopping an unnecessary, IMO destructive derail of the thread (which was dragging on off-topic beef that had been going on for several days on other threads)
- informing Ph1l that his username was offending people and that he should change it

The "27 days" portion of the admin log comment was an allusion to how many times Whiney had been temp-banned. To my knowledge, there's never been a temp-ban that's lasted longer than three but I'm not going to search the archives or the admin log to verify that, so I'll just assume I'm wrong and it's happened a couple of times. Also, and I don't expect anyone to believe this, I was hoping that a temp ban would keep him from getting sb'd yet again, because the point Masonic Boom raises with regard to the anonymity of the suggest ban and how it comes across as a gross popularity contest without any relevant feedback is possibly the best point I've read on this thread with regards to the system as it is currently working (and one reason why I ultimately think the "how many sbs do I have" is a good idea) and has actually been a topic of discussion amongst site mods within the past couple of months.

lol, all this talk about sbs made me revive the 77 version of that thread, hi dere.

bring back whiney

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well, i said "almost" because i couldn't think of an analogy that didn't involve a more serious offense than what you actually did, sorry.

it's almost like a cop planting drugs on a criminal that's already been caught in the act

Why would anyone even want to be a mod when you get rhetoric like this? But then I would just ban people at whim so it's not like I'm ever going to be asked to be a mod anyway, the point is probably moot.

i did it for the ilx tote bag but tbh in retrospect i regret the decision

the MODS have DEATH PANELS

Why would anyone even want to be a mod when you get rhetoric like this?

really really good question

It is really fucking rich to be all "mods should be held to a higher standard of behavior" on one hand and then going out of your way to use deliberately provocative language to describe their actions, pretty much daring them to lose it and therefore prove themselves unfit to be a moderator.

also lol @ "ILX Tea Party"

dunno if everybody's figured this out yet but there is NOT A HOMOGENOUS MOD STYLE.
You don't become a mod and get a handbook. Everybody tries to respect everyone else's decisions and discuss them. Generally if there's a confrontation or disagreement, it gets discussed on the mod board and you get a sense of what the group as a whole thinks. Everyone strives to match a mean.
I don't always agree with some of Hi Dere's hardman modding decisions but then I'm willing to put up with a lot of shit that he isn't and that's our respective prerogative. He's also more of a comedy modder; he'll toss out a one day ban for the lulz and the uproar is mostly just because the log reads it as 27 days or whatever. I kinda like dude's insouciance and "oh you wanted a fight" venom; if anything hi dere is your representative in this congress.
Personally, I haven't SB'd anyone in the past six months and my only attempst at banning were an LJ ban (which kinda shouldn't count) and a bad decision on my part for a threadban when I was figuring out how this worked. But I'm more chaotic neutral and happy to see shit get crazy as long as nobody's feeling's get hurt/no godwin's law/no racist shit/no irl repercussions. Not everybody rolls like that and i can dig it.
real talk: this is a diversion and without some shit-stirring and drama, it can be not enough of a diversion to hold everyone's attention. So some of the 500 post threads on these kinda topics are mostly about talkin' to talk. But nobody should be losing sleep about this stuff and nobody should be taking it personal. it's the internet

i hear hi dere is a secret 4channer, a manchurian chandidate as it were

I wish someone photoshop Dan w/joker makeup.

It is really fucking rich to be all "mods should be held to a higher standard of behavior" on one hand and then going out of your way to use deliberately provocative language to describe their actions, pretty much daring them to lose it and therefore prove themselves unfit to be a moderator.

Isn't that what kicked this all off in the first place?

excuse me for being cynical about mods, but the one time in recent memory I started a thread on the MRF board (to have meta-snark deleted from a thread i'd just started!), the request was unanswered for almost 2 days, and when I bumped the thread to complain about the lack of action, Dan, you weren't happy with my tone but at least you took action, which makes me wonder how many mods we have and how vigilant they are about helping out people when they ask for it.

can only speak for myself but i troll MRF daily.

some dude i remember that specific incident and the facts of the matter is that it took 2 days because we were discussing if it was an appropriate request - we arent really in the business of deleting stuff from threads just because the original poster thinks its a derail unless its pretty egregious.

also its kinda frustrating that now all of a sudden yer new tack is to say that mods are lazy and dont do their jobs?

you know one thing that was never really resolved was who is in the 77 clique

can only speak for myself but i troll MRF daily.

― a pun based on a popular ilx meme (forksclovetofu), Thursday, November 4, 2010 6:18 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this is exactly the kind of "one rule for the mods, one rule for everyone else" shit i'm talking about

excuse me for being cynical about mods, but the one time in recent memory I started a thread on the MRF board (to have meta-snark deleted from a thread i'd just started!), the request was unanswered for almost 2 days, and when I bumped the thread to complain about the lack of action, Dan, you weren't happy with my tone but at least you took action, which makes me wonder how many mods we have and how vigilant they are about helping out people when they ask for it.

I think your cynicism is to an extent manufactured here, just done a quick search and most of your requests were dealt with pretty quickly, but of course that doesn't get a mention...

ok -- felt like i was being ignored, maybe in that case it wouldn't hurt to say "we'll get back to you" or something?

i'm just saying i see mods taking actions nobody asked for but my experience hasn't been great when i did ask for something, like it always seems like we have this team of Super Friends keeping the trains running on time but then my little amount of firsthand experience made me question that

delete request

This is the thread you're talking about, which was posted mid-week in the middle of vacation season.

These are your other MRF threads:

cleanup on aisle 77
maybe delete
delete post(s) from wrong thread
please up date thread title

Exactly how/why do you have cause to be cynical about mods, based on these threads?

You're basically saying "excuse me for being cynical about mods but here is an example in which I am going to ignore every instance in which they've actually helped me out..."

how many mod requests have i made, like 3 or 4? i'm just saying i'm pretty sure that's the only one i've made in the last few months and it was a pretty frustrating situation for me. (xpost)

ie, you are, possibly subconsciously, inventing shit to support your belief that the moderators are untrustworthy

knock it off

this is exactly the kind of "one rule for the mods, one rule for everyone else" shit i'm talking about
― caek, Thursday, November 4, 2010 6:24 PM (1 minute ago)

what does this mean?

it was a joke about the definition of the word "troll"

Some Dude, you do realise that this perfectly illustrates the 'OMG the mods are just oppressing us' hysteria in which these debate invariably begin, right?

i know i can't fucking win with you guys, but that's the only reason i keep fighting, you know that, right?

That is what makes you a troll.

just when dan thought he was out THEY PULL HIM BACK IN

can we lock this yet?

your call, not mine

not without meeting minutes and a list of action items

This is the thread you're talking about, which was posted mid-week in the middle of vacation season.

you probably shouldn't say "don't expect swift action when we're all likely to be off at the beach" after someone else already said "we were actually having intense behind-the-scenes debates about that" btw

can we lock this yet?

no I think I can get at least 3 more DNs out of this

i dont mind locking this because at this point it has basically nothing to do with whiney, but i am down with trying to straighten out all this mods vs us bullshit because it kinda wears me down that we go through this on the regular

maybe on a different thread idk

xpost: some dude, i am speaking from memory here and finding it in the mod discussion forum is way insano searchwise so i cant absolutely clarify, but i am quite sure that some of us were talking about it, although dan may not have been in on the discussion.

i don't think dan should quit as mod, personally

altho this

If Whiney comes back and continues to be an abusive ass with a secret "oh but it's hust jokes, I really love you guys FUCK YOU haha I'm a scamp!" thread on 77, I will permaban him. ILX does not need that shit.

― lol tea partiers and their fat fingers (HI DERE), Thursday, November 4, 2010 8:44 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark

seems like a borderline vendetta

yeah well whineys letter where he swears that hes going to come back unchanged to bitch about dan and i and how terrible we are at modding prob aggravated that a bit maybe

one thing to remember, no matter who the mods are, it's not a 24-7 on call support line. doesn't excuse any laxity but come on, there are limits to anyone's irl attention here.

one way to fix this would be to just have more mods, but then you'd necessarily make the modding more inconsistent. these things just naturally go on a see-saw.

John, you're confusing that meta-clusterfuck with another one. Since you guys won't revoke my mod privs I looked on our discussion thread and there was no discussion about that request between the time it was created and when I responded to some dude.

yeah well whineys letter where he swears that hes going to come back unchanged to bitch about dan and i and how terrible we are at modding prob aggravated that a bit maybe

― O_o-O_0-o_O (jjjusten), Thursday, November 4, 2010 1:34 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

i think there's a conflation of whiney's posting style here... i don't think he antagonizes mods that often, mostly it's people who post about chillwave or witch house

no matter who the mods are, it's not a 24-7 on call support line

clearly the only way we can sort this is with an ilx funding drive to employ a full-time 24-7 on-call mod

might as well face it you're addicted to mod

xxp

It is really fucking rich to be all "mods should be held to a higher standard of behavior"

(with disclosure that i haven't read the thread since this was posted) for what it's worth i don't really expect a higher standard to be applied to mods. whiney is mad annoying sometimes - everyone agrees with this - hell i'm probably more annoying - and the appropriate response is to call him out on being annoying. call him names, zing him, do what you will - the issue was you did all this and then seemingly went "oh hey i'm a mod, i'll just ban this asshole!" to me that's an abuse of your power. i don't think you can make a reasonable argument that the ban wasn't the result of a personal beef between the two of you. that's what people are objecting to in this case