god grant me the serenity ...
― sarahel, Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:30 (thirteen years ago) link
if you annoy 51 different ppl in any 'community', seems fair that those 51 ppl can have a break from you for a month or so
― Ward Fowler, Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:31 (thirteen years ago) link
Hey, I've just given my first SB in this thread. I wish I had been able to just flag up "I find this post unacceptable" instead, but I don't have that option.
Now I'm going to go, because you are really getting on my damn fibroids, Jordan.
― Karen D. Tregaskin, Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:31 (thirteen years ago) link
― Karen D. Tregaskin, Sunday, November 21, 2010 3:31 PM (1 second ago) Bookmark
flagged this post for bestiality
― J0rdan S., Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:31 (thirteen years ago) link
to accept the things i can't change ...
― sarahel, Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:32 (thirteen years ago) link
actually i should stop the snark -- i flagged the post because i hate you because you're a woman that resists rape culture
― J0rdan S., Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:32 (thirteen years ago) link
the courage to change the things i can ...
― sarahel, Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:33 (thirteen years ago) link
j0rdan srsly, yr gonna get tempbanned if you carry on thusly
― pro EVOO sucker (acoleuthic), Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:33 (thirteen years ago) link
Ok Kate as a vocal opponent of sb, please explain to me why you have given out over 30 of them, because that seems pretty counterintuitive to me.
― O_o-O_0-o_O (jjjusten), Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:33 (thirteen years ago) link
and the wisdom to know the difference between the two
many xposts but i'm w/kate here
main difference is that ~flagging~ anonymously happens silently, and is only visible to the mods. they can then investigate the offending post, and decide from there if it merits further action. if ppl lol flag a post from an ilxor they personally dislike, it'll be pretty obvious to whatever moderators check it out. SBs can accumulate for reasons that have nothing do w/actually offensive behavior (by ilx community standards), and once they fire, they fire. but if a poster keeps getting innocuous posts flagged, they won't necessarily get the boot.
what's funny is that the anonymity of SBing is why it can be misused, but is also precisely why flagging is a good idea. if someone thinks a post is offensive for maybe personal reasons, they should be able to raise the alarm w/o starting a mod request thread saying "i think, personally, that this post is gross/racist/whatever" and inviting recrimination. or having to email a mod directly, etc.
― BIG MUFFIN (gbx), Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:33 (thirteen years ago) link
I have tempbanned J0rdan
― Unfrozen Caveman Board-Lawyer (WmC), Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:34 (thirteen years ago) link
calling people by their real SBs when shit gets heated
― a ticker tape of "must not fuck up" (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:34 (thirteen years ago) link
Suggest Ban Permalink
― Ward Fowler, Sunday, November 21, 2010 3:31 PM (56 seconds ago) Bookmark
what if there are 500 people who don't want you banished? where is their vote?
― cha-cha cheating (bnw), Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:35 (thirteen years ago) link
xp - i was unclear on whether the flagging would be public or private
― sarahel, Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:35 (thirteen years ago) link
i think the mods should come up with a system that changes for each individual so that nobody ever gets banned, except for the things i want them to get banned for.
― Goths in Home & Away in my lifetime (darraghmac), Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:35 (thirteen years ago) link
^^^ nail on the head
― a ticker tape of "must not fuck up" (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:35 (thirteen years ago) link
An ideal outcome right now would be several people flagging Jordan for "ad hominem" and a helpful mod comes along, yellow cards him saying "enough snark" and then threadbans him if he doesn't knock it off.
Wouldn't that produce a better immediate outcome than him just getting SB'd two weeks down the road when everyone's forgotten what this thread was even about?
― Karen D. Tregaskin, Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:35 (thirteen years ago) link
amen
would like to register protest at jordan getting tempbanned for lowerin himself to the tone of the debate
― Goths in Home & Away in my lifetime (darraghmac), Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:36 (thirteen years ago) link
those 500 people are all socks thoxps
― buzza, Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:36 (thirteen years ago) link
In the heat of passionate clusterfucks, won't people get even more defensive and then irate if they're all of a sudden notified that they're offending people? Maybe not, I'm just spitballing here.
― Gukbe, Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:36 (thirteen years ago) link
would like to hear from my pope on this matter tbrr
― sarahel, Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:36 (thirteen years ago) link
x-post thank you WmC
― Karen D. Tregaskin, Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:36 (thirteen years ago) link
dmac did you actually read what j0rdan was saying? come on man
― pro EVOO sucker (acoleuthic), Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:36 (thirteen years ago) link
j0rdan was being a dick in this thread
― sarahel, Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:37 (thirteen years ago) link
like, I <3 the guy usually but he's the only person who's ever driven me to SB out of rage - his handling of sensitive meta-debate is inflammatory at best
― pro EVOO sucker (acoleuthic), Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:37 (thirteen years ago) link
i read all the posts lj.
― Goths in Home & Away in my lifetime (darraghmac), Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:37 (thirteen years ago) link
J0rdan: unless another mod unbans you, you're gone for 15 days. A polite request was made, you ignored it. then you made a rape joke to someone who's made it clear that she's a rape survivor. why shouldn't this be a permaban?
― Unfrozen Caveman Board-Lawyer (WmC), Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:37 (thirteen years ago) link
because a permaban would be way too harsh
― sarahel, Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:39 (thirteen years ago) link
I find your constant statements that the general posting public sbs you for being a woman far far more insulting and offensive than anything j0rdan said on this thread.
― O_o-O_0-o_O (jjjusten), Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:39 (thirteen years ago) link
this time next week k8 is giving sb's for lols & loving it, gateway drugs are a whole thing man
― aerosmith: the acid house years (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:40 (thirteen years ago) link
xps wow
for real, from a purely "what is modding for" perspective, SBs don't make as much sense as flags. if the intent of modding is to keep things relatively civil (according to community standards, obv...derails are a part of ilx, but obv wouldn't be tolerated on loads of other boards), then letting the community police itself by anonymous tipline makes more sense than automatic jailtime given w/o evaluation. i know kate has maybe played up the "omg everyone hates me!" thing, but i guarantee she's holding SBs for no reason other than ppl think she's irritating, which is whack.
that being said: the hugest obstacle to all of this is, as it always is, actually implementing it. i can't program for shit, so unless stet or whoever thinks flags are a dece idea and feel like pursuing it, i think we're stuck with what we've got
― BIG MUFFIN (gbx), Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:41 (thirteen years ago) link
An ideal outcome right now would be several people flagging Jordan for "ad hominem" and a helpful mod comes along, yellow cards him saying "enough snark" and then threadbans him if he doesn't knock it off.Wouldn't that produce a better immediate outcome than him just getting SB'd two weeks down the road when everyone's forgotten what this thread was even about?― Karen D. Tregaskin, Sunday, November 21, 2010 3:35 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark
― Karen D. Tregaskin, Sunday, November 21, 2010 3:35 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark
guys this is srsly the most reasonable thing itt, kate is otm
― BIG MUFFIN (gbx), Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:42 (thirteen years ago) link
jordan's post was out of order, a threadban would definitely have been merited were it possible, but before it's painted as a rape joke lol fuck that guy, it was actually a direct response to two or three items KDT's list of all the reasons she might have been sb'd in the past, all of which were pretty damned facetious and in line with the tone of forced confusion that permeates this thread.
xp what jjj said.
― Goths in Home & Away in my lifetime (darraghmac), Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:43 (thirteen years ago) link
from st4ckoverflow.com:
What if I see bad things happening?Please use our flagging system to let us know about it. Each comment has a small flag icon, and every post has a flag menu at the bottom. Take advantage of it! We actively moderate our community, but we need your help to do so. Anything that is getting consistently flagged by our community members will be investigated and followed up on. And of course you can always email us directly if you feel the matter is extremely urgent.
Please use our flagging system to let us know about it. Each comment has a small flag icon, and every post has a flag menu at the bottom. Take advantage of it! We actively moderate our community, but we need your help to do so. Anything that is getting consistently flagged by our community members will be investigated and followed up on. And of course you can always email us directly if you feel the matter is extremely urgent.
― BIG MUFFIN (gbx), Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:44 (thirteen years ago) link
hold on, 30 sbs issued sounds like a lot to me - is that a lot? is there an average?
― Ward Fowler, Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:44 (thirteen years ago) link
a threadban was possible; I gave a sitewide tempban instead
― Unfrozen Caveman Board-Lawyer (WmC), Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:44 (thirteen years ago) link
stet or whoever thinks flags are a dece idea and feel like pursuing it, i think we're stuck with what we've got
^^^ real talk
I mean as I said earlier, I'm guessing anybody on here could learn to code but they "don't have enough time" or w/e (as if the mods here don't have day jobs & lives & sometimes kids & plenty of other shit they could be doing...oh no am I kissing mods' asses by not being a knee-jerk infantile cockface to them? sry Lamp wld h8 to disappoint u) -- if you won't take the time to use yr god-given brain to design a new system & offer it up, then you don't have any complaint coming, is my opinion -- and I know everybody was v. keen to learn what my opinion was so now u have it
― aerosmith: the acid house years (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:44 (thirteen years ago) link
automatic jailtime given w/o evaluation
Again, this isn't how it works. Mods review every post when someone gets 51ed.
― O_o-O_0-o_O (jjjusten), Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:44 (thirteen years ago) link
main difference is that ~flagging~ anonymously happens silently, and is only visible to the mods. they can then investigate the offending post, and decide from there if it merits further action. if ppl lol flag a post from an ilxor they personally dislike, it'll be pretty obvious to whatever moderators check it out. SBs can accumulate for reasons that have nothing do w/actually offensive behavior (by ilx community standards), and once they fire, they fire. but if a poster keeps getting innocuous posts flagged, they won't necessarily get the boot.what's funny is that the anonymity of SBing is why it can be misused, but is also precisely why flagging is a good idea. if someone thinks a post is offensive for maybe personal reasons, they should be able to raise the alarm w/o starting a mod request thread saying "i think, personally, that this post is gross/racist/whatever" and inviting recrimination. or having to email a mod directly, etc.
Yes, exactly. The flagging is done silently, so the flagger doesn't have to survive the trial by rubbernecking on threads like this, but mods can see who it is doing it, to make sure it isn't being abused.
In the heat of a *passionate* clusterfuck, I think perhaps a temporary threadban until the clusterfuck dies down and the poster becomes calm again is a lot better than just hitting them with a random banhammer, maybe weeks later. Yes, that requires a judgement call on *who*, precisely is clusterfucking (or if someone is reacting to provocation, or whatever) but I'd much rather that, than the paranoia-inducing random banhammer. And you can also see what posts *don't* get you flags.
Like, believe it or not, some people on ILX find it quite hard to make political or personal statements. I have had people email me and say "thank you for saying that, I don't feel comfortable getting involved, but I'm glad you said something" - if *these* people are free of the fear of getting SB'd, you might hear their voices instead of just the usual people shouting the most frequently.
― Karen D. Tregaskin, Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:44 (thirteen years ago) link
xp - why j0rdan shouldn't be permabanned -
It was a dickish way of putting it, but I think what K was accusing people of was potentially offensive, and to me, ridiculous -- because if people were banning for those reasons, the banned would be demographically different. J0rdan was pointing out the ridiculousness of these assertions, not making rape jokes.
― sarahel, Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:45 (thirteen years ago) link
but i mean, if a thread was started now calling WmC all sorts of names and demanding satisfaction for the fallen, would it follow that we need a new style of modding than what was used in this specific circumstance?
― Goths in Home & Away in my lifetime (darraghmac), Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:46 (thirteen years ago) link
it seems that this entire thread is based on "people" not understanding why they are suggest banned.
it's a position that's either disingenuous or shockingly clueless.
either way.
― questeon the answers (call all destroyer), Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:47 (thirteen years ago) link
I an also opposed to j0rdan being site wided but I am am posting from iPhone so I can't actually reverse it at the moment.
― O_o-O_0-o_O (jjjusten), Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:47 (thirteen years ago) link
i'd say jordan feels at least as sore as anyone who's been sb'd, i wonder will he come back reformed.
― Goths in Home & Away in my lifetime (darraghmac), Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:47 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah it's actually not hard to avoid the appearance of impropriety w/that word & I <3 J0rdan, like a lot, that is my dude, but having said that, ppl who deploy the word "rape" as if it weren't heavily loaded need to check themselves a little -- it's really not hard to say to oneself "let me treat that whole concept as if use of the term could really hurt someone's feelings, and let me try to avoid being that hurtful person"
― aerosmith: the acid house years (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:48 (thirteen years ago) link
^
― pro EVOO sucker (acoleuthic), Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:49 (thirteen years ago) link
people everywhere? or just y'know, jordan.
― Goths in Home & Away in my lifetime (darraghmac), Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:49 (thirteen years ago) link
back to the number of sb's given: I'm a pretty regular poster and I think I've only sb-ed 3 people in the past year.
― sarahel, Sunday, 21 November 2010 21:50 (thirteen years ago) link