An open letter to ILX & mods re: an alternative to the current system

kinda think requiring people to justify in words flags/SBs might be a bit much. we're trying to make LESS work for mods, not more. that is: rely initially on how much attn a post attracts (# of flags), which then automates a mod notification. at that point, i'm willing to trust that the mods can determine if flags were made in bad faith or not.

2b) would ppl be less at risk of getting banned because they are irritating?

Even if they're a minority, if there are people who are getting SBs without knowing why, there should be a way for them to find out? Even if a majority already get why and don't care/can't change, it'd still be a good thing.

and u couldn't ditch anonymity, that's ridiculous. either a post is offensive per community standards (which, flawed tho ilx is, i think it's OK to apply a 'know it if i see it' policy), or someone's just peeved at someone like kate having the temerity to start a thread about something.

I think a few people have mentioned that they fully intend to ban people and not flag posts.

Taking the opposite view of KDT on that isn't that unreasonable a position - irl I tend to dislike people based on their behaviour. I may or may not challenge them on something or try to change that behaviour (flag) but for the most part if I find someone to be an unpleasant dick I'd try not to be around them any more (sb) - like you might stop someone saying racist shit at work if everyone tells them to quit it but ultimately you're still stuck working with a racist. So you try to get the person removed (sb) - or remove yourself if the system won't let you and can't bear to be around them (I am off the Internet-maracas.jps)

A much simpler solution would be for mods to remove any and all SBs that aren't for obvious egregious posts. Or just throw the whole SB system in the bin and go back to moderator discretion, maybe with more use of yellow cards. But then people would complain about centralisation of power. It's no-win whatever happens.

This is otm -- I for one am 100% comfortable with god-mods even though I feel confident that both HI DERE & jjjusten would have banned me at some point for my egregious assholism on politics threads.

I actually share some of Princess TamTam(wish I knew who that was)'s concerns in re: cliqueishness but I don't think that's actually how SB has played out on ilx, which mitigates the problem. It's like: if you're not an aggressively active poster, you don't have a prayer of surviving the onslaught of an ad-hoc coordinated crew's worth of on-board abuse. SB gives those posters, largely ones we couldn't name because they're quieter, a weapon against bullies. That's why I like the SB.

the people who sb'd kate upon first post when there was nothing else yet posted were being dicks and that was unfair, but do you think the majority of any 51 sb's are similarly groundless? like d'uh probably not

fwiw i have decent coding xp - cld def w/ fuck with source code just for autoreplace alone - but then yall can live in the world that i create & then jaundy can either learn to program or gtfo i guess.

http://www.mattbrandenburg.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Asinine-America-HATERS-GONNA-HATE1.jpg

also this thread is the perfect encapsulation of why lol bans are amazing

i have sb'd over a dozen ppl itt

er, that is, i think some posters would not be comfortable calling bullshit on other posters behavior if they knew it wasn't anonymous. now, anonymity IS bad when yr vote is just to get someone off the island. if it's just to say "hey mods look at this" then who cares who flagged what.

Lamp I know you hate me but you bring the lols and for that I give you the gift of suggest ban

just to add some detail of what I know about the current site - afaik it was developed with java EE. I was part of task force POXY FULE back in the day, so I had some exposure to the dev process. no one really wanted java EE, because it's not a scripting language anybody can pick up quickly, but it's what keith knew and fuck if he didn't man up and rewrite the whole goddamn site while a bunch of us armchair script hacks wrung our hands and debated php vs perl vs fubar.

Or just throw the whole SB system in the bin and go back to moderator discretion, maybe with more use of yellow cards. But then people would complain about centralisation of power. It's no-win whatever happens.

Honestly, they should just bring the hammer down on the whiners. This shit doesn't get to be up for discussion on a lot of other messageboards... I know that's sort of counter to the democratic ideal of ilx or whatever (lol) but trust me, I know from experience that boards with a more fascist approach are much more harmonious and life is simpler and more pleasurable for everyone.

SB gives those posters, largely ones we couldn't name because they're quieter, a weapon against bullies. That's why I like the SB.

― aerosmith: the acid house years (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, November 21, 2010 6:33 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

dude this is precisely what anonymous flagging would do, too! AND it would stop bullies from SBing ppl just for lolz. like the Main Thing you're doing is making a button that says "ATTN MODS!" instead of one that says "HOPE U NEVER POST HERE AGAIN"

the people who sb'd kate upon first post when there was nothing else yet posted were being dicks and that was unfair, but do you think the majority of any 51 sb's are similarly groundless? like d'uh probably not

Tuomas's SBing proved that even a small minority of SBs on stupid grounds is not acceptable.

Honestly, they should just bring the hammer down on the whiners. This shit doesn't get to be up for discussion on a lot of other messageboards... I know that's sort of counter to the democratic ideal of ilx or whatever (lol) but trust me, I know from experience that boards with a more fascist approach are much more harmonious and life is simpler and more pleasurable for everyone.

it's decided then -- I am the sole site mod and will make the calls

glad we had this thread, show me how to lock it & we'll be on our way

then again the last time I was involved was in 2006 and for all I know keith rewrote the entire thing in assembly in 2008

xp

the Main Thing you're doing is making a button that says "ATTN MODS!" instead of one that says "HOPE U NEVER POST HERE AGAIN"

Can't we have both? And the moon on a stick?

SB gives those posters, largely ones we couldn't name because they're quieter, a weapon against bullies.

except it's more than that, it's a loose cannon that can be turned on anyone, and effectively wielded by a pretty small minority of posters. how many of those SBed coulds justly be accused of bullying?

i'm all for 100% mod power fwiw.

also Tuomas was SB'd for ruining at least 51 threads by openly refusing to stop derailing them & making them "This Is The Thread Where Tuomas Gets To Keep Asking The Same Question Until He Feel Satisfied," not for Just Being Tuomas

i should just give up

srsly the level of intentional point-missing and snarky bad faith is pretty unimpressive

except it's more than that, it's a loose cannon that can be turned on anyone, and effectively wielded by a pretty small minority of posters.

This is 100% the actual real problem with SB and I do not disagree with anybody whose concern is this. I just don't believe about 75% of the people who complain on principle when it sounds for all the world like they mean "oh no my friend who was being a total dick to everybody got banned".

Tuomas's SBing proved that even a small minority of SBs on stupid grounds is not acceptable.

― Friday: vuvuzela club meeting (Autumn Almanac), Monday, November 22, 2010 12:38 AM (42 seconds ago) Bookmark

huh? who made you the fuckin' king of deciding which SBs really 'count'

he got 51 votes and was cast off the island

the system works

dude this is precisely what anonymous flagging would do, too! AND it would stop bullies from SBing ppl just for lolz. like the Main Thing you're doing is making a button that says "ATTN MODS!" instead of one that says "HOPE U NEVER POST HERE AGAIN"

But considering SB doesnt automatically ban anyone as it is, isnt it doing that already?

A much simpler solution would be for mods to remove any and all SBs that aren't for obvious egregious posts.

yeah, I mentioned my discomfort with this in my first post upthread. I don't want to be in the position of judging this SB worthy and that one unworthy

huh? who made you the fuckin' king of deciding which SBs really 'count'

he got 51 votes and was cast off the island

the system works

― rip whiney g weingarten 03/11 never forget (history mayne), Monday, November 22, 2010 12:41 AM (36 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

IRL lol over post/un here

no, it isn't. xp to trayce

But considering SB doesnt automatically ban anyone as it is, isnt it doing that already?

― And this one time, on Bandcamp... (Trayce), Monday, 22 November 2010 00:41 Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^^^ this - dunno how many times mods need to state that 51 and out *isn't* automatic.

This is 100% the actual real problem with SB and I do not disagree with anybody whose concern is this. I just don't believe about 75% of the people who complain on principle when it sounds for all the world like they mean "oh no my friend who was being a total dick to everybody got banned".

― aerosmith: the acid house years (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, November 21, 2010 6:40 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

how is that relevant

350 "new" answers. My god.

relevant in creating a straw man you can repeatedly dismiss

i mean dude, if you LIKE suggest bans because they empower quiet ilxors with a means of arousing mod action (make your own dirty joke here), but also think they can be misused by bullies ~as they have on this very thread~, then you'd think you might be open to a system that preserves the former and literally eliminates the latter.

huh? who made you the fuckin' king of deciding which SBs really 'count'

Precisely the sort of aggression I was hoping to avoid itt

350 "new" answers. My god.

yeah mods should really just code a bot to write these threads once a month tbh, save everyone typing all that shit every time.

can someone summarise the intelligent arguments itt, especially re: flag post system

am most in favour of the gibreel/nakhchivan 'voice yr discontent' system which WmC has used on me to great effect recently, but maybe a flag post system would work - anyway please can we cut thru the terrible energy-sapping noise and summarise

i have louis

so sad that i have to go to bed and miss all the fun.

so sadder than i mean that.

yeah mods should really just code a bot to write these threads once a month tbh, save everyone typing all that shit every time.

best suggestion of the day

am most in favour of the gibreel/nakhchivan 'voice yr discontent' system which WmC has used on me to great effect recently,

initially confused but mostly lol

i mean dude, if you LIKE suggest bans because they empower quiet ilxors with a means of arousing mod action (make your own dirty joke here), but also think they can be misused by bullies ~as they have on this very thread~, then you'd think you might be open to a system that preserves the former and literally eliminates the latter.

I am 100% open to such a system. I am also 100% opposed to anybody demanding that anyone code this for them, or float ideas they're not willing to pitch in on themselves. People have volunteered their time to help keep this board's New Answers page from degenerating into 100 threads about Nicky Wire in a banana suit; I'm grateful for that. Anybody, and I do mean anybody, who has a problem with it, can buy themselves a couple of O'Reilly manuals and figure the shit out in their spare time, which is almost surely the exact class of time in which the mods are doing their work, i.e., time they don't really have.

I know from experience that boards with a more fascist approach are much more harmonious and life is simpler and more pleasurable for everyone.

― Onigaga (Princess TamTam), Sunday, 21 November 2010 19:36 (39 seconds ago) Bookmark

all other boards are depressing and horrible in my experience though

Or just throw the whole SB system in the bin and go back to moderator discretion, maybe with more use of yellow cards. But then people would complain about centralisation of power

agree on both sentences

I am also 100% opposed to anybody demanding that anyone code this for them, or float ideas they're not willing to pitch in on themselves.

this has literally not happened once in this thread.

this has literally not happened once in this thread.

lol except in its inaugural post you mean

the Main Thing you're doing is making a button that says "ATTN MODS!" instead of one that says "HOPE U NEVER POST HERE AGAIN"

Can't we have both? And the moon on a stick?

― Lindsey Lohan is the new Extreme Noise Terror (onimo), Sunday, 21 November 2010 19:39 (9 minutes ago) Bookmark

there is already a forum where you can draw mod attention to things, why do ppl feel the need to do this anonymously

and the one person who offered any meaningful time/effort (mine doesn't count, really), has been driven off because ppl thought she called them toddlers (she didn't)

Survey monkey?

I am also 100% opposed to anybody demanding that anyone code this for them,

I agree with this btw. But all this thread started out as was a suggestion of a system that would work better than SB. There's not a dang thing wrong with having that discussion, even if nothing comes of it.

*goes back to read initial post VERY carefully*

I don't see the sbs Kate got for this thread as any sort of bullying or indictment of the sb system actually. As I mentioned on another thread, I (as user not in official mod dude capacity) am pretty sick of k8 refusing to take any stock of her behavior in favor of constantly talking about how evil ilxors are sbing her for no valid reason. I also suspect that some of those sbs were based on pure frustration about another sb thread getting started, and would have gotten levied against anyone starting this thread.

ppl thought she called them toddlers (she didn't)

actually yes she did

all other boards are depressing and horrible in my experience though

― samosa gibreel, Monday, 22 November 2010 00:49 (3 minutes ago)

otm

evan, where did you summarise? direct link plz :)

I suggest that the SB system be replaced by a Report/Flag Post system,

this is the extent of kate's demands in the first post.

OK fine I admit it. I SB'd Kate during this thread (tho not for the original post) and did so for the exact reasons JJusten just said.