he named karen tregaskin. i think it's fair to assume he would include me amongst the sheeple. obviously he feels the perceived defection of dayo v acutely.
― horseshoe, Thursday, 19 September 2013 03:31 (eleven years ago) link
awsum film btw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faq7vqzNJBI
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 19 September 2013 03:33 (eleven years ago) link
dont appresh this early-hours attack fwiw, seems not like fair play
― quite racist, don't mind rap (darraghmac), Thursday, 19 September 2013 03:35 (eleven years ago) link
i didn't think it would seem like an attack! just wanted to let you know your tireless work against the forces that dismiss swms has not gone unnoticed.
― horseshoe, Thursday, 19 September 2013 03:36 (eleven years ago) link
lol
― lag∞n, Thursday, 19 September 2013 03:37 (eleven years ago) link
idk about tireless it's 4am in swmland
― quite racist, don't mind rap (darraghmac), Thursday, 19 September 2013 03:37 (eleven years ago) link
and the endless privtalk is p fuckin tiresome like even at midday or w/e
― quite racist, don't mind rap (darraghmac), Thursday, 19 September 2013 03:39 (eleven years ago) link
haha i'm sorry. it wasn't a serious attack. i'm not at all chill so the last few times i've read ilx i've been like, "i really feel like i should address all these jabs darraghmac is throwing." i've given Mordy a lot of attention in the past, but I see you, darragh.
xp so tiresome! not at all like endlessly posting about how every time someone weighs in about racism or sexism they're being insufficiently smart/lowering the discourse/shouting over white men in anti-intellectual fashion
― horseshoe, Thursday, 19 September 2013 03:41 (eleven years ago) link
tbf that's mordy's position!
i dont doubt the discourse is far above my head or anything i just wish there were busier movie threads or w/e to distract me at work
― quite racist, don't mind rap (darraghmac), Thursday, 19 September 2013 03:42 (eleven years ago) link
i am trying to figure out why this stuff makes me so mad. it's not like i think the privilege paradigm is perfect. and when Mordy is posting about how people's investment in identity politics obscures class structure, i think he often has a point. but other times, you, darragh, and Mordy, seem to me to take a fundamentally ungenerous position in what you call the privtalk discussions, where because the conversation is structured around experience, you a priori don't get to seem "smart" and because seeming "smart" is the highest good, those conversations have no value. lol i know but it reminds me of grad school.
― horseshoe, Thursday, 19 September 2013 03:45 (eleven years ago) link
xp okay i'm obviously talking about Mordy and not you, then. that was a helpful clarification!
and ya the jabs are not undeserved (or rather im not trying to sneak under cover of mordy), in the language of the discussion i can of course recognise my privilege in being able to dismiss this stuff as ilx-only realted irk personally speaking cos im yr generic swm and i trust (and havent been disappointed) that my righteous ilx ppl will (at gentlest) handwave my grousing away.
― quite racist, don't mind rap (darraghmac), Thursday, 19 September 2013 03:46 (eleven years ago) link
if i wanted to join the privilege train i do belong to an identity group that has experienced plenty of persecution/violence/discrimination/etc to draw from - i agree that i want to move the conversation away from an experience perspective but not bc i think that conversation puts me at a disadvantage. i just don't think it's particularly interesting.
― Mordy , Thursday, 19 September 2013 03:48 (eleven years ago) link
at swm two birds was awes btw
― quite racist, don't mind rap (darraghmac), Thursday, 19 September 2013 03:49 (eleven years ago) link
eh i think even when people are having the highminded discussions that meet with your approval, experience seeps in. it's just not marked/read as such.
xp
― horseshoe, Thursday, 19 September 2013 03:50 (eleven years ago) link
but you're talking as though i dismiss all lowbrow conversations. i just have a problem w/ this particular tone of outrage.
― Mordy , Thursday, 19 September 2013 03:52 (eleven years ago) link
i think what you read as tone is also just rage. which people feel. i can see why you think it's a problem; it can be. it can also be productive.
― horseshoe, Thursday, 19 September 2013 03:53 (eleven years ago) link
shouting over white men in anti-intellectual fashion
and -just in case we're being too reasonable with each other horseshoe :)- yeah, though i wouldnt agree that it's necessarily anti-intellectual, ilx has definitely imo embraced the first part of this with increasing enthusiasm and it def drives me closer to a 'well go wan an fuck yourselves so' attitude on a bad day- as it would anyone that met it on the site with any regularity, i think
yeah, boo-hoo go home swm, we're here to redress the problems of the world and your day in the sun is over- i get it!
― quite racist, don't mind rap (darraghmac), Thursday, 19 September 2013 03:54 (eleven years ago) link
there should be a space between that :) and the -, it wasnt a soul patch or anything
ah, the privilege train
― mookieproof, Thursday, 19 September 2013 03:55 (eleven years ago) link
i know i'm in for it once i say this, but non-swms feel like that all the time-alienated by the very assumptions of a discussion which takes the experiences of a particular group as universal.
xp lol yes "privilege train" needs to be a song, maybe
― horseshoe, Thursday, 19 September 2013 03:57 (eleven years ago) link
pronouncing "swms" in my head is hypnotic
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_TwK3s2Eg87g/STuAMzEuq9I/AAAAAAAAA2w/0huPcxCf8Gk/s400/statler_waldorf_02_01.jpg
l-r dmac and mordy watching a privilege thread
― quite racist, don't mind rap (darraghmac), Thursday, 19 September 2013 03:58 (eleven years ago) link
you don't need no ticket/you just get on the noize board
― @twitizensforlemonlipbalm (schlump), Thursday, 19 September 2013 04:00 (eleven years ago) link
tbph i find it kinda offensive when i'm called white. i understand that my complexion is lighter and generally considered white (tho it's really olive) but also since 'whiteness' has a lot of do w/ genetic purity that jews have been historically excluded from, not to mention theological/social contexts of exclusion, it's pretty shitty to be told that don't understand what it means to have a particular group taken as universal. it's awesome btw living in the united states and i'm super grateful to live in a time + place where i can practice my religion + live in relative safety + prosperity, and i feel for ppl in the united states who don't yet have that. but that isn't true everywhere in the world, and it has only been true for a very short period of time here.
― Mordy , Thursday, 19 September 2013 04:01 (eleven years ago) link
non-swms feel like that all the time-alienated by the very assumptions of a discussion which takes the experiences of a particular group as universal.
i prob don't even get to say that i get this, so i'll just say that i dont know that ilx has proven to be, over the years, a board where that universality of experience is assumed?
― quite racist, don't mind rap (darraghmac), Thursday, 19 September 2013 04:01 (eleven years ago) link
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white. tbph i find it kinda offensive when i'm called white. tbph i find it kinda offensive when i'm called white. tbph i find it kinda offensive when i'm called white. tbph i find it kinda offensive when i'm called white. tbph i find it kinda offensive when i'm called white. tbph i find it kinda offensive when i'm called white. tbph i find it kinda offensive when i'm called white.
― Very gud laser controled organ. (Matt P), Thursday, 19 September 2013 04:06 (eleven years ago) link
have you read walter benn michaels, Mordy? i think you would like walter benn michaels, if not.
i'm sorry. of course you do know what it's like to have a particular group's experiences that are not your own taken as universal. but i do think your own sense of what counts as an interesting conversation performs a similar exclusion. i find it hard to reconcile your sensitivity to minority experience in that post with some of your posts in the "privtalk" discussions/arguments.
xp ilx has sometimes been that kind of board. people don't know when they're doing it! and people who feel excluded don't always feel comfortable pointing it out/
― horseshoe, Thursday, 19 September 2013 04:06 (eleven years ago) link
(i wasn't seriously throwing around single white male as an epithet; i was quoting darraghmac. i have posted on ilx for one million years; obvs i'm cool with single white men.)
― horseshoe, Thursday, 19 September 2013 04:08 (eleven years ago) link
lol single
― quite racist, don't mind rap (darraghmac), Thursday, 19 September 2013 04:08 (eleven years ago) link
:D
― quite racist, don't mind rap (darraghmac), Thursday, 19 September 2013 04:09 (eleven years ago) link
haaaaaaaaaaaaa um i meant straight. i guess. wtf @ me
― horseshoe, Thursday, 19 September 2013 04:09 (eleven years ago) link
i understand that ppl feel alienated. i don't believe that feeling gives ppl conversational authority. just like when someone disagrees w/ me on anti-semitism thread that something is anti-semitic, i try to argue logically/historically about why i think eg bibi paving a wall w/ blood might be anti-semitic. i don't tell them that they're privileged and can't understand what i'm saying bc of it. sensitivity to minority experience doesn't equal 'privtalk.'
― Mordy , Thursday, 19 September 2013 04:09 (eleven years ago) link
genuine lulz at 'single white men'
darragh why dont you just not read threads about privilege or w/e is annoying you and just stick to like 'breaking bad is a tv show i have thoughts about' threads
― Lamp, Thursday, 19 September 2013 04:10 (eleven years ago) link
cos im only starting breaking bad and i cant go near the threads
and ilx besides those two subjects is vvvv quiet
it is a fair question, like
― quite racist, don't mind rap (darraghmac), Thursday, 19 September 2013 04:11 (eleven years ago) link
i dispute the characterization of "privtalk" in this thread by you and darragh, especially because i am one of the main offenders in your eyes if i understand correctly.
xxp
― horseshoe, Thursday, 19 September 2013 04:11 (eleven years ago) link
those are the threads that become clusterfucks when you post to them. i wish other threads got a hundred new posts whenever i posted something there, but ppl tend to be really passionate on those threads xp
― Mordy , Thursday, 19 September 2013 04:12 (eleven years ago) link
you weren't on my repressed list of names fwiw
i just think it's...strange if you really like dayo, for example, to despair when he gets interested in race as a category of analysis instead of being like, hmm i know dayo to be a smart and interesting person. maybe i should take his interests seriously.
― horseshoe, Thursday, 19 September 2013 04:12 (eleven years ago) link
friends get into stuff all the time that i can't get on their wavelength with - not just re race. i could probably be more decent about it and live + let live but that's about tact/etiquette. i'm still going to regret the shift in emphasis privately
― Mordy , Thursday, 19 September 2013 04:15 (eleven years ago) link
treeship is a single white male
― buzza, Thursday, 19 September 2013 04:16 (eleven years ago) link
i am one of the main offenders in your eyes if i understand correctly.
eh not in my eyes
and just ftr, as i've stated before i think, i love p much everyone on this site i just disagree with most/all of em about this stuff so no spillover on my part either way
― quite racist, don't mind rap (darraghmac), Thursday, 19 September 2013 04:16 (eleven years ago) link
okay. i enjoyed this conversation. i do think you (Mordy) would like walter benn michaels, and he's that rare English academic who's a gifted writer, as a bonus.
i feel uncharacteristically chill.
― horseshoe, Thursday, 19 September 2013 04:17 (eleven years ago) link
i think this has been a chill chat :) i'll check out wbm
― Mordy , Thursday, 19 September 2013 04:18 (eleven years ago) link
horseshoe do you like my display name
― druhilla (k3vin k.), Thursday, 19 September 2013 04:20 (eleven years ago) link
ah xps, the heart of it!
i only despair at dayo, f'rinstance, when he uses me as an example of yr standard ignorant oppresoor privilege denier on a thread i've not posted on in weeks and then refuses to engage if i call him on it twice
but he's still one of my v favourite posters, no spillover as i said.
again, yes i can see that for me to be all 'hey man let's thrash it out and argue about this stuff no holds barred no hard feelings mannnn' is a position that i should more than likely step away from because ppl who are deep into this in a way i am not will naturally take it to heart in a way i won't. but eh like tbrr imo there's still ways to carry on on ilx and there's ways not to, unrelated to w/e is being discussed.
but other than that i don't see any issue at all with my disagreeing (completely) with posters that i like and admire on this or any other subject
― quite racist, don't mind rap (darraghmac), Thursday, 19 September 2013 04:24 (eleven years ago) link
o'ppresúr
― quite racist, don't mind rap (darraghmac), Thursday, 19 September 2013 04:25 (eleven years ago) link
why are you up so early, darragh?
― Fizzles, Thursday, 19 September 2013 04:54 (eleven years ago) link
tbh I think part of the problem is the sheer number of posters who are often trying to communicate a variety of experiences/nuanced opinions but then might all go 'wtf @ honor, Mordy' (for example) on one particular point. And then it seems like ILX is one singular hivemind where every post isn't just a random lol or jibe or single point but also implicitly seems to endorse whatever went before (to the person feeling got-at).
e.g. when Mordy requested that emil.y use the word 'patriarchy' in a certain way, that just tickled my sense of irony so I posted an offhand comment and then was accused of saying something utterly different. I know that happens a lot on ILX but I think volume of posts from different people who might have individual points to make just kind of get lost in a big amorphous blob of ~something about privilege~ and the thread of any particular argument is lost in what seems like a pile-on.
― kinder, Thursday, 19 September 2013 07:52 (eleven years ago) link
at swm two birds, lol
― goole, Thursday, 19 September 2013 15:36 (eleven years ago) link