New ILX functions - can I hide them?

There seems to be a couple of new functions on ILX, one that says "My Recent Posts" and one that shows threads in alpabetical order. I'm sure these are useful to some people, but I was wondering if it is possible for people don't need them to hide them, because now they're kinda messing the previous layout I was used to. I know this is not a big thing, so if it's impossible to do I'm okay with it, just wanted to ask about it.

there s to b a couple of new functions on ilx.... just wanted to ask about it.

???

I have come around, however hesitantly, to thinking that maybe, by some wild stretch of the imagination, sorting the page in alphabetical order is useful to someone. Maybe it's like when a client says, "You don't understand. My customers are complete morons. We simply must have this feature." And of course they're right, because everyone's customers are morons (and they only more steadfastly stay that way if you give them everything they ask for). So ok, fine. Alphabetical order.

"My Recent Posts" is amazing to me, though. And that it's in the top-level menu... what is the... what the... I'm sputtering. Who is that for? People who only want to see their own posts?

I should say, for the record, that Keith is a very nice person and I like him and would never want to poo on his head about anything. But these new features seem drawn out of a hat.

Of course, I fear that taking a poll on all suggested features would lead to a different, but just as useless, set of features.

tuomas the alpha option is next to customi(s)ze view, which was already there iirc, so it's not taking up an extra line or anything.

What "customize view"? I don't see anything like that, all I see is a row that says View In Alphabetical Order 27 Active Users. Anyway, I kinda agree with Kenan that both of these new functions seem a bit pointless. Were people really asking for them?

Ideas for ILX

Okay, it seems a few people were asking for "My Recent Posts" (don't really get what's the point of it, but I guess people have different ways of using the board), but the alphabetical order thing seems to have done because one person asked for it. So if it is possible, it would be nice if the people who don't need it could hide it or something.

Tuomas, I think keith is adding features in order of ease of programming/things easiest to implement. If you want to step up and start coding a feature-free style sheet, feel free.

But is it really necessary to add features just because they're easy to do? Shouldn't there first be a real need for these new features?

Some people feel it would enhance their user experience!

I mean, I have major respect for Keith for doing all this voluntarily, but wouldn't it be easier for him too if he didn't need to code new features that people don't necessarily want?

(x-post)

can u really not c y ppl might want/use these features thats pretty myopic to just want the dude to add only features u want

Yeah, I can see that, but it seems this alphabetical thing was added because one person asked for it, whereas several people have already that it seems pointless or should be made optional.

"have already said"

so because u dont c the value in something no1 should have it????? tht u were sum kinda hippie or some shit

Well, if I asked for ILX to be turned rainbow colour, should it be done because I think it would be cool, even if some other folks see no value in it?

Again I belive that is an opportunity for one awesome style sheet

many many xposts

I think that the features being made live (and very prominent) recently are not necessarily the most useful or the most called-for, but they are the most possible. I think Keith really wants to make us all happy, but can't possibly make us ALL happy, and is doing what he can. I totally get that, and he is a goddamn hero for even trying, considering this contentious group.

THAT SAID! This will not make the site more usable, it will only make it look more and more like a programmer-designed interface. It happens every time, and it happens even worse when a programmer is beholden to the interests of his employers, and it could get seriously nasty if the programmer is beholden to this bunch, from which I do not exclude myself.

Well, maybe this alphabetical thing could be put in a special style sheet too? That way the person who asked for it could still have it, and everyone would be happy.

x-post

cmon t-dawg u have to be reasonable ~~~ what kind of subhuman wouldnt want ilx to be turned rainbow colors

anyway this is stupid the alphabetical option is def unobtrusive u have to be some spoiled childish monster to begrudge ppl that little bit of happiness becuz of a little alternation in a plain txt msg board layout

For Finnish Dudes Who Have Considered Sbicide When the Rainbow Is Enuf

If we gave you a style sheet with rainbows would you then complain there was no pot of gold at the bottom? Srsly, give the guy a freaking break.

It's not horrible to be able to sort by alphabet. I is kind of... um... how should I say this. It's kind of silly.

But no one is forcing you to sort and the link will not bite. I promise!!!!

Also true.

yah but who care thats it retarded thats not the point it makes some1 happy and its selfish and gross to complain about it when it cant possibly have an effect on a reasonble persons enjoyment of this indie rock and taco discussion forum

fuk u if u disagree

<3

The alphabet sorting option needs to go at the bottom with the "see the last three weeks" options and such. If it were put there to begin with, we would never have even noticed.

And I'm surprised that no one has realized that Lamp has been taking the piss with every post he's made.

Not that he agrees or disagrees at all. It's fence-sitting as an art form.

The nightmare is over.

So I explained this here: Ideas for ILX

Nonetheless, person who asked for the alphabetical order stuff, it's still there, there's just not a menu for it, so for example for Site New Answers, use this:

http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/SiteNewAnswersControllerServlet?sort=true

Also, if you stick sort=true on to the end of any new answers page URL, it'll work for that too, so for example:

http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/NewAnswersControllerServlet?boardid=41&sort=true

Hopefully, that will give you what you want and also quell the popular outrage at the introduction of this.

Kenan, re: the user interface. I'm quite open to suggestions here and we've had a bit of discussion around it. That said, the last discussion was a bit abortive when we discovered you didn't know what site new answers was! Beyond that, what I'd personally be looking for is some good reasoning behind moving stuff - some of which we've already seen, because people will beef about it, whatever changes are made - we can talk it over for a bit and in time (no major rush) sort it out.

I have actually sat with someone as they used it for the first time, and they didn't have much trouble, so despite the fact that it could probably be clearer, I do think it's clear enough. The only problem the person I watched had was they couldn't figure how to add a new thread, and I guess that this is because ILX is a bit esoteric with it's Questions/Answers approach rather than say Threads/Posts.

the last discussion was a bit abortive when we discovered you didn't know what site new answers was!

Oh jeez, yeah. Notice I left that thread shortly after a few more stabs in the air. I lost mad cred on that. Brutal.

Just put your stylesheet changes up.

Heh. Thanks. In the grand scheme of things, what I'm most worried about is some nice, proper margins. :)

Or at least, that's what I know I can fix.

I think we could lose some options from the top menu, and put them in a second context-sensitive menu (directly below the first one would be my pref but perhaps that could be a stylesheet thing).

e.g., top menu:

Site New Anwsers   Search   Boards   Preferences   Bookmarks   ILE   ILM   Blog View   Logout

sub menu, site new answers/home/boards pages:

Site New Questions   My Recent Posts   Customise View

sub menu, board/thread pages:

New Answers   New Questions   New Question   New Poll

I get the last menu, Ledge, because that's context sensitive (only makes sense on a boards page), but not clear why the second menu has any less precedence than the first - what's the logic behind it? If it's because you don't use these features, please bear in mind that if we're to redesign the UI, it can't be on one users way of using the site, I'd like to, if possible, see some reasoning behind the separation.

In my head, what initially I thought was to have:

Site New Answers   Search   Boards   Preferences   Bookmarks   My Recent Posts New Questions Blog View Logout

And in the small menu bar I added the other day:

ILE   ILM Answers   New Question   New Poll

So not too different from what you have.

Actually, the ILE and ILM Answers don't belong context sensitive as they'd make sense from anywhere in the site, so in the top level menu.

I will use my small voice here, but all of these menu items should be organized into html lists, like <ul> <li>, and then putting a <ul> inside of one of those <li>s should solve like three problems at once, including making it a snap to style.

Incidentally, Ledge, wasn't trying to imply you don't have logic behind your separation - just that I don't know what it is :)

Kenan - don't follow that, bear in mind I know very little about CSS etc.

'customise view' only applies to site new answers so that's why i put it in a sub menu. that's kinda where it is already. as for the others...

if we're to redesign the UI, it can't be on one users way of using the site

agreed. but given that we can't stuff everything into the top menu i think we have to make some decisions based on popularity. if you could get stats on most/least used pages that would certainly be fairer.

Sure, well I used to have some... Agreed about site new answers customisation.

Oh hang on, I've just misinterpreted what you said - I think we're saying much the same thing...

Kenan - don't follow that, bear in mind I know very little about CSS etc.

Well, it's not just css. As the html reads currently, it's a single div, and inside that a list of words that are links. It should be written as a list, like:

<ul class="main-nav">
<li><a href="/ILX/SiteNewAnswersControllerServlet">Site New Answers</a></li>

etc etc

</ul>

And then adding submenus would be a matter of which top-level menu item you needed to add more to, and adding another <ul> <li> kind of list inside of it.

I like the "my recent posts" feature -- it's likely that I'll post to a thread and then totally forget what it's called a couple weeks later when I wonder whether anything has happened on that thread.

Oh OK, I see what you mean, Kenan.

Sarahel, yeah I think that's what whoever asked for something similar was wanting to do. I can see why people would find it useful. Someone else suggested to me that I should put a link in for each user's recent posts, which I think is probably a nice idea.

yeah that's what i'd use it for.

xxp, oh you're thinking of multiple sub menus, i was only thinking of a second menu bar.

we need an information architect.

To tell the truth, this site is way harder than it should be to style, because even the standard elements of it are couched inside of older, crappier elements... like the the list on any new answers page, which works as a <ul> kind of list, but only if you pay careful attention to the like four other nested <span>s inside of each of those... it's pretty crazy.

The site is filled with <span> element tags, and really there should be little reason to use that tag at all.

Well as I say, don't know much about CSS and so on. I presume you mean that instead of using SPANs that you just style whatever it is (e.g. a link). I think some of the SPANs are used where there is no other thing, but the real reason is just that HTML/CSS was never anything I knew much about.

To take the New Answers page as an example, each thread title should be the <li> part of the list, with of course an <a> element to link it, and all the meta data could be part of a single <span> element, and most of the elements currently inside of the <span> that is there now could be dropped, because from looking at the output now, there's wayyy too much happening inside there. There are a lot of tags that aren't referring to anything.

I don't have any idea what the php looks like, mind you.

Actually, looking at it again, the biggest thing that bugs me is that each <li> is wrapped in a <div class="thread">, which should never happen.

There's no PHP - it's all written in Java.

What should happen? Do you mean the <li> should have class with the styling applied to it?

package com.conversationboard.view;
import java.sql.SQLException;
import java.text.SimpleDateFormat;
import java.util.Date;
import java.util.List;
import java.util.Map;
import org.joda.time.DateTimeZone;
import org.joda.time.MutableDateTime;
import com.conversationboard.cache.newanswers.NewAnswersThread;
import com.conversationboard.config.Configuration;
import com.conversationboard.formatter.DateFormatter;
import com.conversationboard.model.Board;
import com.conversationboard.model.Boards;
import com.conversationboard.model.Role;
import com.conversationboard.model.User;
import com.conversationboard.model.preferences.SiteNewPostsViewInfo;
public class ThreadListDisplay {
	public static String display(Board board, List<NewAnswersThread> threads, String userId, OrderedBy orderedBy) throws SQLException {
		StringBuilder buffer = new StringBuilder();
		boolean isSiteNewPosts = (board == null);
		Date today = new Date();
		User user = User.get(userId);
		Role role = user.getRole();
		boolean admin = false;
		Map<Integer, SiteNewPostsViewInfo> viewInfo = null;
		if (isSiteNewPosts && user.isLoggedIn()) {
			viewInfo = user.getPreferences().getSiteNewPostsViewInfo();
		}
		if ((role == Role.SiteAdmin) || ((!isSiteNewPosts) && user.isBoardAdmin(board.getBoardId()))) {
			admin = true;
		}
		buffer.append("<ul>");
		MutableDateTime date = new MutableDateTime(new Date());
		for (NewAnswersThread thread : threads) {
			Board threadBoard = Boards.getBoard(thread.getBoardId());
			if (threadBoard.isPrivateBoard() && (!user.isMemberOfBoard(threadBoard.getBoardId()))) {
				continue;
			}
			MutableDateTime threadDate;
			if ((orderedBy == OrderedBy.LAST_UPDATED) || (orderedBy == OrderedBy.ALPHABETICAL)) {
				threadDate = new MutableDateTime(thread.getLastUpdated());
			} else {
				threadDate = new MutableDateTime(thread.getTimestamp());
			}
			threadDate.setZone(DateTimeZone.forTimeZone(user.getPreferences().getTimeZone()));
			int day = threadDate.getDayOfMonth();
			/* Don't display the date change notifier if they're alphabetically ordered as it won't make sense */
			
			if ((date.getDayOfMonth() != day) && (orderedBy != OrderedBy.ALPHABETICAL)) {
				buffer.append("<h3>Last on " + DateFormatter.prettyPrint(threadDate.toDate(), user) + "</h3>");
			}
			date = threadDate;
			if (thread.isDeleted() && (!admin)) {
				continue;
			}
			if (user.getPreferences().isHidePolls() && thread.isPoll()) {
				continue;
			}
			/* Display Site New Answers in colours, and potentially skip this thread, if you've decided that way in preferences */
			String colourOverrideStyle = "";
			if (isSiteNewPosts && user.isLoggedIn()) {
				if (viewInfo != null) {
					SiteNewPostsViewInfo info = viewInfo.get(thread.getBoardId());
					if (info != null) {
						if (info.isHide()) {
							continue;
						}
						if (!info.getColour().equals("")) {
							colourOverrideStyle = "style='color: " + info.getColour() + "'";
						}
						
					}
				}
			}
			buffer.append("<div class='thread'>");
			/* Display an empty bullet if the thread has posts since you last looked at it, or if you've never looked at it at all (latest message ID will be 0) */
			if (user.isLoggedIn()) {
				int latestMessageId = user.getMostRecentMessageId(thread.getBoardId(), thread.getThreadId());
				if ((thread.getLatestMessageId() > latestMessageId) && (latestMessageId != 0)) {
					buffer.append("<li class=\"updated\">");
				} else {
					buffer.append("<li>");
				}
			} else {
				buffer.append("<li>");
			}
			if (thread.isUnanswered()) {
				buffer.append("<span class='unansweredthread'>");
			}
			if (thread.isDeleted()) {
				if (!admin) {
					continue;
				} else {
					buffer.append("<span class='deletedthread'>");
				}
			}
			if (thread.isLocked()) {
				buffer.append("[LOCKED] ");
			}
			if (!thread.isWorksafe()) {
				buffer.append("<span class='notworksafe'>[NOT WORKSAFE] ");
			}
			buffer.append("<a " + colourOverrideStyle + " href='" + Configuration.getInstance().getRoot() + "/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=");
			buffer.append(thread.getBoardId());
			buffer.append("&threadid=");
			buffer.append(thread.getThreadId());
			buffer.append("#unread'>");
			buffer.append(thread.getTitle());
			buffer.append("</a>");
			if (!user.getPreferences().isHideThreadInfo()) {
				SimpleDateFormat formatter = new SimpleDateFormat("MMMMMMMM yyyy");
				String year = formatter.format(thread.getTimestamp());
				buffer.append(" <span class=\"threaddata\">[Started by ");
				buffer.append(thread.getCreatorId());
				buffer.append(" in " + year);
				buffer.append(", last updated ");
				buffer.append(DateFormatter.prettyPrintTime(thread.getLastUpdated(), user, false, true));
				if (!user.getPreferences().isHideLastUpdatedBy()) {
					if ((thread.getLastUpdatedByDisplayName() != null) && (!thread.getLastUpdatedByDisplayName().trim().equals(""))) {
						buffer.append(" by <span class='threadlu'>");
						buffer.append(thread.getLastUpdatedByDisplayName());
						buffer.append("</span>");
					}
				}
				if (isSiteNewPosts) {
					buffer.append(" on <span class='threadlu'><a href='http://"; + Configuration.getInstance().getDomainName() + Configuration.getInstance().getRoot() + "/NewAnswersControllerServlet?boardid=" + threadBoard.getBoardId() + "'>" + threadBoard.getName() + "</a></span>");
				}
				buffer.append("]</span>");
			}
			int recentMessages = thread.getNumberOfRecentMessages();
			if (recentMessages > 0) {
				buffer.append(" <em><span class='threadlu'>");
				buffer.append(recentMessages);
				if (recentMessages == 1) {
					buffer.append(" new answer");
				} else {
					buffer.append(" new answers");
				}
			}
			buffer.append("</em></span>");
			if (thread.isPoll()) {
				SimpleDateFormat formatter = new SimpleDateFormat("MMMMMMMM dd");
				if (!thread.getPollClosingDate().before(new Date())) {
					buffer.append(" <span class='pollthread'>POLL closes: " + formatter.format(thread.getPollClosingDate()) + " (in " + DateFormatter.prettyPrintFutureTime(thread.getPollClosingDate(), today, user.getPreferences().getTimeZone()) + ")</span> ");
				} else {
					buffer.append(" <span class='pollthread'>POLL results</span> ");
				}
			}
			if (thread.isDeleted()) {
				buffer.append("</span>");
			}
			if (!thread.isWorksafe()) {
				buffer.append("</span>");
			}
			if (thread.isUnanswered()) {
				buffer.append("</span>");
			}
			/* If you're a site admin, or you administer this board, then display the admin links */
			if (admin) {
				buffer.append("<br />");
				ThreadListAdminLinksDisplay.includeAdminLinks(buffer, thread.getBoardId(), thread.getThreadId(), user, "adminlinks", "adminlink");
			}
			buffer.append("</li></div>");
		}
		buffer.append("</ul>");
		return buffer.toString();
	}
}

i think the spans inside the links should be kept, separating out the various bits (thread starter name, last poster name, etc) could be useful.

the <li> should have class with the styling applied to it?

ideally, yes. you can have multiple classes, space separated, so <li class="thread updated"> would be ok.

Oh I didn't know that...

That <em> in there probably isn't the greatest either. Though most of this got written about four years ago.

sub menu, site new answers/home/boards pages:

Site New Questions My Recent Posts Customise View

I'd definitely be for moving these functions from the main menu, as I never use them. Are there many folks who do? I never use the "blog view" thing either, but apparently some people favour that? Anyway, if you have several bookmarked boards, the top menu can become quite cluttered, for me it's almost two full rows. So I think it would be nice if the main menu would only have the essential functions (board boomarks, New Question/Poll, Site New Answers, Search, Bookmarks, Logout, and Admin), and everything else would either be in a side menu, or they could be made invisible via preferences.

The menu should be much cleaner, more like:

<div class="menubar">
<ul>
<li><a title="Display all etc" href="/ILX/SiteNewAnswersControllerServlet">Site New Answers</a></li>
<li><a href="/ILX/Pages/Search/search.jsp">Search</a></li>
<li><a href="/ILX/index.jsp">Boards</a></li>
<li><a href="/ILX/PrePreferencesControllerServlet">Preferences</a></li>
<li><a href="/ILX/BookmarksControllerServlet">Bookmarks</a></li>
</ul>
</div>

And etc. (This is shortened for practicality, not content.) The class "menubar" that is applied to each of these "a" tags currently doesn't refer to anything that's not already covered elsewhere, or couldn't be much more efficiently by simply applying that style to the element called ".menubar li a".

buffer.append("<div class='thread'>");

Tell that buffer to stop appending that. It's adding zero.

Ledge is right, though, the spans that are separating and defining the various parts of the metadata... yeah. Those are useful, or might be useful at some point, especially for xhtml and rss purposes. Anyway that aren't hurting anything. The trouble is that some of them are carrying weight, which spans don't really do... oh it's so late.

there s to b a couple of new functions on ilx.... just wanted to ask about it.

― estela, Thursday, August 6, 2009 2:47 AM (5 hours ago)

n/l

I like the "my recent posts" feature -- it's likely that I'll post to a thread and then totally forget what it's called a couple weeks later when I wonder whether anything has happened on that thread.

Yeah, that's what I use it for, though hours not weeks. I like it a lot. "What have I posted on lately and has any of it made anyone call me a jerk?"

Is there any way - sorry if it actually already does this, or if the lookups would be a terrible resource-drain - it could mark which of the posts are on threads which have been replied to since you looked?

I like the "my recent posts" feature -- it's likely that I'll post to a thread and then totally forget what it's called a couple weeks later when I wonder whether anything has happened on that thread.

Isn't this what bookmarks are for?

bookmarks are too too much. i don't want in-yer-face notifications every time every thread i post to gets updated.

too too - unintentional use of double intensifier

But the "My Recent Posts" thing doesn't tell you when a thread has been updated. It only shows your recent posts, not the posts that might've followed them.

Still think Keith should just refuse to implement some features (not even as a preference), but if not then perhaps these new features (and all the menu items in fact) should each have a unique class name (e.g.

menu-myrecentposts

menu-sortalpha

display: none

(also code should perhaps apply the html code tag, not the pre one so things like that don't happen!)

Yeah, that's what I use it for, though hours not weeks. I like it a lot. "What have I posted on lately and has any of it made anyone call me a jerk?"

I can see it being useful for "How drunk was I last night?" analysis.

I like that the 'site new answer' is on the bottom of the page!

I find my recent posts nifty, fwiw. Its a nice simple reminder of threads you've been active on without having to recieve constant updates in any other form. Its controllable, y'kin?

And Kenan, <3 you darl but you shot yourself in the foot asking why the alph feature's right up top, when you missed site answers and the point thereof: if new features werent in peoples faces most people wouldn't know to use them maybe.

Hmm actually: what about a "new features!" link instead that bolds up when Keith's added new things? S'just a thought.

Oh wow, "My Recent Posts" is gonna be totally awesome the next time I get so drunk I can't remember what I did the night before.

Its funny because its true ;_; (for me)