do i buy a thing

oh cool

my bro writes hipster NASCAR btw, he's great

can't tell you how many hours my siblings and I played Milles Bornes as kids. looks fun!

i just found vittoria evo cx IIs for $42, win. they're 21's, but that'll do.

Garmin Edge 800

I've always ridden with a Cateye computer, so I've always had speed/average speed/max speed/time/distance data. I like the idea of having a GPS unit so I can log rides - I've got an app on my iphone which does this, but it uses up all the battery after about 3 hours. Also the phone app isn't terribly reliable at the micro aspect of the data (i.e. it will give you the overall distance and time correctly, and if you analysed average speed over a distance of a mile or a minute or something it would be accurate, but over short sections it makes wild claims that I've suddenly accelerated up to 50mph on the flat when that obviously hasn't happened). I'd also like to have reliable data about climbing and I'm particularly keen on using it to analyse training/racing performance. Regarding the latter, there's no way I can afford a power meter, but I suppose I could try a heart rate monitor.

I really want the package for the 800 with the maps of Britain on so that I can effectively use it as a SatNav for a bike. This will be useful in July/August when I've got some time off and hope (if the weather's ever good enough) to go for some longer rides to places I don't know / ride right through London - it's a pain having to keep guessing where you're going or stopping repeatedly to look at a map.

On the other hand, it looks like it will cost >£400 and I'm struggling to justify that expense to myself. Probably >90% of the time I'm riding on roads I already know and don't need a map, especially when I just go out for 20-35 miles. Also I'm not convinced that HRM data will be that useful and I probably don't really need to know my cadence and I don't know whether the climbing data is particularly accurate.

Any advice?

Also think of the extra grams dude

I love the simplicity and accuracy and altimeter of edge 500, and if I need a map I just pull out my iPhone. I guess if your gonna be in the back of beyond u may not have phone service tho. But even if I had 800 it's not like I could leave the phone at home- I still have to carry it basically.

I would still carry my phone anyway - if there's some kind of emergency I need to be able to phone for help. But my phone is wrapped up in a little polythene bag and stuck in one of my back pockets. It's a pain having to stop, retrieve the phone and wait for an incredibly slow internet connection in the middle of nowhere to load my location.

I really like my edge 705, but I hardly ever use the mapping function. If I were buying now it would be the 500. The mapping truly sucks on the 705, it's meant to be better on the 800 but unless you want turn by turn directions, get the 500.

I want turn by turn directions. I've just ordered an 800. I may live to regret this.

It finally arrived yesterday and I've got the morning off work today. It took me a while to work out how things work and how to set everything up, but I think I've got it largely sorted now. I've just been on a brief ride to try it out (but forgot to wear the heart monitor):
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/195932540

A couple of questions:
1) In Garmin connect, the data it provides is for the whole time I was out, including the numerous occasions when I came to a halt at traffic lights. It does give 'average moving speed' in addition to 'average speed', but all of the graphs are based on the whole time, rather than the moving time. This means that the 'average' lines drawn on those graphs aren't really in the right place in terms of what I want to know. Is there a way to change the graphs to ignore the times when speed or cadence were zero?
2) If I make a route (or course or track - I'm not sure of the terminology yet) in Garmin Basecamp, how do I transfer this onto the device? What about routes I've already made on ridewithgps.com?

Further question:
How can I analyse parts of my ride in garmin connect? i.e. I want to look at the hills I went up and analyse the gradient (and heart rate, once I remember to use it). And analyse heart rate zones, for that matter?

1) Not sure where it would be on the 800 but under settings-> setup there is an option to pause the device when stationary or under a certain speed.
2) you should be able to export a .gpx file from ridewithgps.com and then bring it in through Basecamp
3) Strava and mapmyride are much better for this than there is a plugin which allows you to import stuff from the garmin directly into web services

It blows my mind how varmint can make gps devices and also have the shittiest online support system possible.

I'm hoping this puts the wind up Garmin

http://corp.brytonsport.com/products/rider50?lang=en-gb

Not as nice hardware (basically a rip off of the last generation Edge) and no guarantee the software is any better but hopefully it puts the wind up Garmin

2) you should be able to export a .gpx file from ridewithgps.com and then bring it in through Basecamp

Yeah, I'm not having much joy with this. I have three routes which I exported from ridewithgps. The first two just won't import due to an 'unknown error'. The third one can be imported into base camp, but then I can't seem to get it onto the device. Or, rather, I can send it to the device but then the device doesn't seem to recognise that it's been sent there: it's not listed with the route I rode this morning (and saved as a route).

I have had these problems, I'm not entirely sure what it is. It may well be an issue where is a point is not on a road in Garmin land it has a hissy fit.

I haven't tried this but this looks like a way of bypassing Basecamp which may well be the root of the problem.

http://www.easterncapemountainbiking.co.za/index.php?page_name=page&menu_id=7&submenu_id=16

Hmmmm. Rather protracted this - it seems I can get routes on there by exporting them from ridewithgps, importing them into basecamp, immediately exporting them back to my computer, then uploading them into garmin connect and then finally sending them to the device.

you could have done a ride in that time amirite

I can just make routes in Garmin Connect and then send them to the device (this works - I've just tried it). So what on earth is the point of Basecamp???

To vex an frustrate the Garmin user

So today I rode exactly the same route, this time with the heart monitor on as well. The distance came out almost exactly the same (0.02 miles difference), but the total climbing was supposedly 456m yesterday and 474m today. That's quite a large discrepancy - how reliable is the altitude data? I have a minimum/maximum elevation of 3m/127m today and 16m/122m yesterday - obviously the land hasn't risen/fallen in the past 24 hours.

I've just been looking at various websites on how to calculate my maximum heart rate (and then use that to get different zones) and I've come across various different measurements that consistently give me 181-183 bpm. I deliberately chose a hilly route that took me up my club's hill climb course and I tried sprinting up the end of this (about 12% gradient) and my heart rate went up to 190bpm. Can you actually excede your 'maximum' or are these measurements just imprecise? This wasn't a one-off - on another hill (10% incline) I reached 185. I don't really know what to make of this. I also tried to do an interval of a minute or so at race pace on the flat - this got my bpm up to 178.

Info here: http://connect.garmin.com/splits/196402996. Split 3 is the hill climb and split 5 is the flat interval.

yep, GPS devices are not great at figuring out altitude

maybe because they use time differentials from different satellites to estimate position, and the horizontal distance between satellites is much larger than the vertical distance (all relative to you)

Your maximum heart rate is literally that: your maximum heart rate achieved. There is no formula that supersedes your physical results.

GPS altitude relies on so many factors: weather, wind, time of year*. The Garmin device provides a reasonable estimate... although Strava overlays their users' data with topography maps so they may be a bit more accurate.

*I once did a hilly ride in the middle of a storm and the altitude data showed almost a flat line.

800 should be better than the previous generation, It's go a barometer to make corrections but GPS is bad at altitude. Connect will attempt to correct but then you are at the mercy of baseman data.

See my recent log post a friend and I doing the same ride and him getting ~1250m and me getting ~1750m

Your maximum heart rate is literally that: your maximum heart rate achieved. There is no formula that supersedes your physical results.

I tried the same hill again today and really went for it, doing my second fastest time ever, and got a new maximum of 193 bpm. As bad as that made me feel, I reckon I've felt even worse a few times in races, so I suspect my maximum could be even higher than that. Apparently a better calculation is not to work out your maximum, but to work out what you average for a 30-minute all-out effort (e.g. time trial), but I've forgotten what you're supposed to do after finding that.

If you have a turbo trainer you can use the cadence sensor with an ANT+ USB stick and do the Trainerroad threshold test and this will give you you threshold heart rate.

I probably will not buy this, but I'm quite tempted by the Bikes Direct special on the Mercier Elle 3-spd laydeez bike. I've tried and tried to keep my old 3spd going but it's been in pieces for A YEAR and maybe it's time to let it go. And buy something RED that has never been scratched before.

Oh and a friend recently tried to buy a crappy 2-hand bike and the lowest prices at Recycle were in the $250 range! So for $400 you might as well??

Looks solid, go for it

yeah that looks pretty good to me. the rack looks a little dubious for durability, but you could replace that down the line easily if needed.

More Garmin questions:

1) I changed the settings so that it would automatically stop when I stopped moving and resume when I started moving again. This worked pretty well at first, but it seems to be getting worse - it has a tendency to turn off (and then almost immediately back on again) if I slow down for a junction but don't actually stop (i.e. drop from 20mph to 5mph and then accelerate away again). Worse still, it's started doing the same thing whenever I go up climbs, even if my speed is still quite reasonable (say 14mph). Any idea what's up with this?

2) Does there come a point where I should delete the rides which are stored on the device? I have no idea how much memory the device has and how much is taken up with the data from each ride.

1) This is odd, do you have the speed cadence sensor installed?

2) I've never deleted any rides

1) Yes

1 I usually don't use the speed/cadence sensor- I've not noticed that
2 deleting old rides greatly speeds up the varmint uploader utility

1) Hmm, speed/cadence normal solves problems with GPS signal crapping out. Check for a firmware update?

2) I did not know that and I should do it.

There is a firmware update available - if I get it, will it wipe my courses / settings ?

i sorta enjoy that autocorrect turns garmin into varmint

i don't think it will wipe them, but i'm not sure of that.

I tried moving the sensor closer to the spoke magnet and that seems to have eradicated the problem - it must have got moved when I stuck the bike on the back of the car.

I just officially ordered that Dutch-style 3-spd! First time ever for buying a new bike for myself so I am a little disbelieving that I put some numbers into a computer and someone delivers A WHOLE BIKE to my HOUSE. (Some assembly required obvs.)

Sneer patronizingly if you like but I am so looking forward to leisurely upright rides on wet fall & winter streets, with fenders and panniers and 3 whole speeds to choose from. And taking it on rides on various boardwalks without having my brain rattled in my skull.

Sneer patronizingly? Watch jealously imho

I like my sporty SS cross check right now, but once the weather turns I'm gonna want the full vicar. what kind is it again?

It's the cheapie at bikesdirect.com--this is to replace my latest 3-spd beater that I never did get the cranks out of. Wondering now if it's worth keeping it for parts or anything--the wheels and the hub are perfectly good, would sell or donate back to bike shop maybe?

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/mercier/images/ellecityimg/elle_city_peacock_600.jpg

But in red!

I'm on my 4th free (to me) bike, for pete's sake, I can buy ONE new.

enh, i'd donate back. not-new bike parts are incredibly devalued, esp old ones from beaters (even if they're in good shape). trying to sell some old hubs/wheels to a shop would be like selling old CDs---yeah, you'll get SOME money, but not much. better to give to a friend/community workshop or something

OR do as so many other bike nerds do: HOARD THEM

also that is a v cuet bike!

now all u need is a handlebar bag for a pack of smokes and a budweiser tally

Yeah I mean it would just be a crime to toss a working 3-spd hub and stuff but I don't have room to store wheels or any srs parts! I'll ask who wants it.

I actually have a dumb "shopping bag"-style pannier that my parents bought me without realizing it can only be clipped onto a rack WHICH I DID NOT HAVE so I've never used it. Perhaps will use now, should be perfect for beer and take-out.

yay, laurel!

So I'm vaguely toying with the idea of commuting to work again. It's hardly worth it as my workplace is only a mile from my flat, but now that I have to drop off / pick up my daughter from school it could save me a few valuable minutes. Possibly. Probably not, actually, by the time I've locked up the bike and got changed, but I suppose it'll mean a bit more cycling. Anyway - I used to do this about 5 years ago when I had a heavy hybrid commuter bike thing with chainguard and stuff and I just wore my work clothes and rode in them. But that's not really possible now as I only have proper road bikes with no chainguard (and so would inevitably get oil over my trousers in next to no time). However, it would be completely crazy if I got fully lycra-ed up to ride a mile to work: I'd spend far more time getting changed at either end than I would on actually riding. So I was thinking I could try to get some commuter-friendly cycling trousers, maybe like this:
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/altura-metro-cycling-trousers/
That way I wouldn't have to prance around in lycra tights at my daughter's school and could quickly get changed into proper (non oily) trousers when I arrived at work. Does this sound like a plan? Any trouser advice?